What to do in case of lycanthropic outbreak?

[Aki]

Regarding ranged weapons; the best one for the firearms-challenged person is the shotgun. Yeah, it kicks (I have a couple of 12-gauges and a .410) but with a short barrel you really don't need to aim. All you do is point it in the right direction and pull the trigger. The spreading cloud of lead pellets takes care of the rest.

You'd need a really short barrel for that. It'd also greatly reduce lethality, since shotguns kill by the grouping of shot in a tight ball of pure destruction. Spread is pretty much the opposite of what is desirable, especially since in reducing lethality it'd also reduce range.

Aiming is really not so hard that such drastic measures are needed.

Now, for the non-firearm person; things like pitchforks, spears, and pikes are the way to go. All permit you to damage without getting in reach, and spears are easy to make; just whittle a point onto a pole and go for it. If you have time, you can toast the new point in a fire to harden it.

It's worth noting you'll want a secondary, shorter weapon. Awesome as polearms are, they're worthless when you lack swing-room. Roman legionaries didn't carry short swords in addition to pikes because they looked fancy, after all.

In either instance, the best weapon is a good set of legs and the ability to run like mad. Let the hero types deal with the dangers while you set up the bar and serve the beer. That way, whoever wins isn't a problem, they'll all want something to drink afterwards...

Can't really outrun all problems, or run forever. In the werewolf apocalypse scenario most of the critters not only can run longer than you, they can run faster.

[Terastas]

Now, for the non-firearm person; things like pitchforks, spears, and pikes are the way to go. All permit you to damage without getting in reach, and spears are easy to make; just whittle a point onto a pole and go for it. If you have time, you can toast the new point in a fire to harden it.

It's worth noting you'll want a secondary, shorter weapon. Awesome as polearms are, they're worthless when you lack swing-room. Roman legionaries didn't carry short swords in addition to pikes because they looked fancy, after all.

Beat me to it. A polearm would be great if you had A) a shield or something else to keep them from touching you, and B) a small enclosed space like a hallway with them all coming at you from one direction, but they wouldn't be very practical if you were surrounded, trying to clear them off to the side (like over a ledge) or were fighting at close range. At least not unless it was something you could hold at the middle and use like a quarterstaff, and even then that's being pretty liberal.

I agree that a polearm or such would be a good weapon. It just wouldn't be the best choice for someone that could only carry one melee weapon.

[RedEye]

The theoretical point was this; Polearms &tc require little training to use. They work on the poke system.
Swords, such as the Gladius Hispaniensis or Roman Short sword require training to use effectively; and the Gladius was part of a system made up of Gladius (Sword) and Scutum (Shield) that could be taught effectively in about a month (as opposed to the years that a Katana or Broadsword needed).

If you wind up in a melee with any supercharged critter, you are most likely to lose; pure and simple. The use of spears (plural) allows one to poke and run, rather than go face to face with a superior fighter.

[Aki]

The theoretical point was this; Polearms &tc require little training to use. They work on the poke system.
Swords, such as the Gladius Hispaniensis or Roman Short sword require training to use effectively; and the Gladius was part of a system made up of Gladius (Sword) and Scutum (Shield) that could be taught effectively in about a month (as opposed to the years that a Katana or Broadsword needed).

If you wind up in a melee with any supercharged critter, you are most likely to lose; pure and simple. The use of spears (plural) allows one to poke and run, rather than go face to face with a superior fighter.

Untrained you're likely to lose even with a spear. It's going to find a way around - it knows how to fight and your tool is not powerful enough to compensate like a firearm is (since they deal relatively "flat" damage - rifle rounds are consistently lethal. Spear wounds depend on how good a hit you could get in).

And if I had to train in melee, I'd opt for shield and sword myself. Spartan shield and sword styles were absolutely brutal - the way they bashed with shields was obscene. And anything between your foe and you is a good thing.

[Terastas]

RedEye does have a point. No matter how inept at combat you may be, everybody can at least master the "poke with a stick" technique.

Then again, anybody that ever played baseball might be able to make use of a sword, fire axe or even a shovel too. Now granted, swords were not designed to be used like that, but you could still decapitate someone with a Babe Ruth swing (or take out their legs by swinging it like Tiger Woods, or take off an arm by swinging it like Gallagher). Obviously the average Joe wouldn't turn into Ninja Gaiden as soon as they got their hands on a ninja sword, but they should still be able to do some damage with it (or at least as much damage as one would be able to do with a sharp stick).

[FoxKnight]

My plan to survive a lycanthropic outbreak, if I'd rather remain human, would be a little similar to my zombie survival plan.

First, gather as much food as possible and weapons and ammo. It would just be a matter of loading up a truck with the essentials and head to the woods as far away from town/city and the woods surrounding it. If I were lucky, maybe there'd be a cabin or something to hide out in but that's in a best case scenario. If not, I'd try to find a way to get more fuel for the truck so I can head out to the desert where werewolves would most likely not want to reside, unless they are able to adapt like coyotes. It'd just be a matter of finding more food and supplies without being attacked and turned. And guns would work if you shoot them enough and make sure they stop twitching. And anyone can use a gun but it takes some skill to effectively use spears and swords and stuff.

This would differ from my zombie one because, in a zombie outbreak, I wouldn't have to head for the equator and, if they are the slow ones, I could bring a bat or another non-ammo using weapon, but the fast ones I'd need guns to fight them with.

[Terastas]

The desert could be a viable defensive point, provided you had the right kind of resources. It's flat, reducing the chances of ambush or unseen enemies, has few natural resources to sustain hostiles living in the wild, and if the lack of resources didn't kill them, the intense heat and temperature fluctuations would probably get them instead.

A desert wouldn't be a good place for anything, werewolf or zombie alike. Only problem with that plan is that it's not a very good place for a human either. Las Vegas isn't a city that could sustain itself if the power ran out -- it's entirely dependent upon imported foodstuffs, water treatment and air conditioning. The desert could be a safe place in the event of an outbreak, but only with an ample amount of time to plan, collect and assemble; time that we frankly should not be expected to have.

If you already live in the desert, it might be a decent option, but I think you'd have better luck in the Colorado mountains or up in Canada if you wanted an environment you could out-endure the infected in (you can keep a cabin warm with just a fireplace, but keeping cool a desert fort would be a lot harder). Anything where you would be dependent on the national power grid to survive would probably be better off avoided.

[FoxKnight]

I hope you weren't assuming that we're the only humans left during this outbreak.

I was assuming that most of the lycanthropic outbreak would be in larger cities and towns, especially ones near woods like where I currently live. It can't just spontaneously affect half the population, it needs to come from somewhere. An outbreak would have to occur somewhere where there are plenty of victims and I was planning a trek to a lesser known city in the desert like, (Googles), Mesquite, NV. If there were few cases in the desert, and even less in a smaller town, then civilization would still be able to function and keep the power working. They still have Hoover Dam to power them and it is not that close to Las Vegas, if I can recall correctly from my childhood. They would have power and water so that would solve the two main problems and I wouldn't expect Las Vegas to have a whole lot of cases once tourism is slowed from widespread pandemonium and fear of lycanthropy.

The only real problem that I can't solve is the food supply. Although there are plenty of juicy cacti growing about and small animals to kill. But as for a constant supply it'd be harder to get.

[ledrif]

Well Yeah the desert would be a good option but the colder places not in the case of a lycanthropic outbreak, we can't forget they have a fur coat to protect them from cold.

Desert is probably the best option, we just need to find a city not contaminated make a resistance and keep on going with our lifes, I mean we'll need to make a squad to patrol for Lycanthropes at night and at daylight depending on the ammount of people in the town we can actually survive for years that way, Humans are capable to adapt to the most difficult situations and all we need in a case like this is a good ammount of people wiling to help.

After all we can contain the situation that way, securing a route for food supply from non infected cities, and surrounding the start point of the infection then it's just a matter of time, untill it's all over.

[Terastas]

I hope you weren't assuming that we're the only humans left during this outbreak.

No, far from it. But I would take into account that other survivors A) might be skittish, paranoid, or just plain sick in the head and will shoot anything that moves, B) that even if they are still right in the head, they may not be willing to take your word for it that you aren't infected and compromise everything they've worked for by letting you in, C) that their werewolf apocalypse plan might have a bunch of holes in it and that they may have only survived by pure luck thus far, and D) that larger populations require larger facilities and larger amounts of resources, which in turn could translate into more room for error / more potential ways it could fall apart (especially since a larger community makes for a larger target, IE: more incentive to attack). There are six billion people in the world -- I wouldn't expect all of them to have been infected except for me, but I wouldn't expect all of the ones that are left to be capable or willing to offer support to their fellow man either.

I also have to say that when I was thinking of Colorado and/or Canada, I was thinking more of the snow and the ice than the cold. The cold might only bother me, but as long as I had adequate supplies and fortifications and didn't need to go outside at all, the deep snow and slippery walking would only bother them in turn.

[FoxKnight]

It isn't going to be just survivors. There are already plenty of people living in the desert but you make it sound like everyone who happens to be there survived only by luck. They know how to keep a desert commmunity running and will most likely not have any plans to change their current strategy to thrive except to acquire more food and accommodate any incoming survivors.

Another problem I hadn't thought of is how to screen the survivors from werewolves who have yet to change. But that could be solved by finding out who's who during a full moon. I propose that prisons could house the incoming travelers and those who do not change would be let into the city but the werewolves would be killed on the spot and disposed of.

And wolves can live very well in the cold. I've seen a documentary of Yellowstone National Park and the wolves were just as active with snow around as they were during the spring and summer. So they would be able to get to your residence in the frozen woods of Colorado and Canada. Sure there would probably less of them but it's still more likely for them to go to colder places than warmer places.

[Terastas]

There are already plenty of people living in the desert but you make it sound like everyone who happens to be there survived only by luck. They know how to keep a desert commmunity running and will most likely not have any plans to change their current strategy to thrive except to acquire more food and accommodate any incoming survivors.

No offense, but assuming that A) all people already living in the desert must already know how to survive without any support from the outside world (IE: imported foodstuffs, electricity, etc.), B) that all survivors have foolproof survival plans, and C) that all survivors would be willing to accept in all other survivors -- that would be even more foolishly presumptuous as the opposite.

Some people are going to survive for certain amounts of time just by sheer luck, some people are going to survive by leaving others to die while they make their getaway, and some people are going to survive by lobbing Molotovs at anything that moves. That is why you can't trust just anyone.

Another problem I hadn't thought of is how to screen the survivors from werewolves who have yet to change. But that could be solved by finding out who's who during a full moon. I propose that prisons could house the incoming travelers and those who do not change would be let into the city but the werewolves would be killed on the spot and disposed of.

So now you've got two separate compounds, both of which require steady supplies of water, food and defenses. On top of that, you now have to address the issue of travel; how to move and relocate between Points A and B.

And what's more, now you've got additional security concerns; if one person is infected and another is not, what happens to that poor schmuck that you locked up in the prison with the werewolf? Are you willing to risk your own people to provide security for them? Or is it just tough luck to all the people who got quarantined in there with the werewolf? And if they survive, do they now have to wait until another full moon since they could have been infected in the last scare that you perpetuated? If so, what's to keep them from leaving, or worse mutinying?

Seriously FoxKnight, I know this is a completely hypothetical discussion, but the more stuff you drag in to support your "live in the desert" strategy, the more flawed and far-fetched it gets.

And you needn't get so hostile towards the snowy regions -- my Plan A was to jump on a boat and ride it out at sea. I wouldn't expect the Colorado/Canada strategy to be foolproof either, but if I had to choose between the mountains or the desert, I'd definitely go with the former.

[FoxKnight]

I understand your logical arguments but neither of those options you suggested seem viable to escape the invasion. Heading to the ocean/sea would only work for a week at best on a small boat unless you plan to find/hijack/use your own ship and supply it with necessary items and fuel, (depending on the vessel), which could only last you a few months at sea. The first thing to deplete would be water, then food, and you'd have to risk going back to refuel and resupply over and over.

And the cold climate plan seemed obvious to understand why it would fail. I have not heard of wolves in the desert but wolves in the tundra do exist. It would be foolish to think one would be safer closer the werewolves would be more likely to live or travel to. Edit: There is only one species of wolves that I have found information about online and that is the Mexican gray wolf, which was thought to be extinct until the 1930s but they are still a very small population.

I know the desert plan isn't going to sustain life for more than a year but it would be longer than the other two plans. This, of course, is all dependent on how lucky one is in every plan. Maybe one could just happen to be able to supply requirements for life at sea. Maybe one could find resources in the desert. Maybe it is possible to evade them in their actic territories. All I'm saying is the odds of remaining human the longest are highest in the desert.

I believe the main cause of our argument is over what type of lycanthropy we are talking about. My idea, in brief, is that once they change they do not change back. When it happens is not relative but my version has them stay wolf-like and want to create more of them, usually by heading to larger populations of humans.

If you had the idea that they do change back then I could see your two plans working. The desert would still be viable but not the only one. I iterate that all of my previous arguments here are based on my version of the werewolf in the lycanthropic outbreak.

And I do agree with Louis/Ledriff that it would require a team effort of the survivors to make it wherever they decide to stay.

[Terastas]

I understand your logical arguments but neither of those options you suggested seem viable to escape the invasion. Heading to the ocean/sea would only work for a week at best on a small boat unless you plan to find/hijack/use your own ship and supply it with necessary items and fuel, (depending on the vessel), which could only last you a few months at sea. The first thing to deplete would be water, then food, and you'd have to risk going back to refuel and resupply over and over.

The boat was my Plan A. The idea was not to stay out there forever, but to either wait until the conditions on land were more to my liking, or to travel along the coast until I found a place where replenishing my supplies would be easier to do (there are towns in MA that literally have waterfront convenient stores). I would never expect to find a place that is always free of zombies/werewolves all the time, but I would expect every area to be free of werewolves once in a while. I wouldn't expect to be able to stay out in the ocean for life, but I could choose when and where I go back on land.

And again, this is my Plan A: What I'd do immediately after an outbreak. The boat is temporary; I wouldn't be locking myself into a single location and strategy, but rather give myself some additional time and capacity to better prepare myself for the long term.

Also, I don't think it'd be right to say that werewolves could live in Canada just because regular wolves live there. That assumes that werewolves have identical instincts, mindsets and survival strategies as regular wolves. And you know what? The more intelligent and adaptive the werewolves turn out to be, the less I'll be worrying about the possibility of becoming one myself. If werewolves have the capacity for family structure, coordinated hunting and communication, I'm going to be wondering less how to keep them away and more if I should even bother doing so at all.

Everything I discussed being wrong about the desert strategy, however, would still be true if we were talking about zombies. The difficulty of survival in the subarctic regions or out at sea would be directly proportionate to the mental capacity of the werewolves in question, and as I said, the smarter they are, the less I worry about becoming one myself. The problems with the desert strategy you just mentioned, however, would be serious problems no matter how dumb the werewolves turned out to be.

I don't really buy the idea of the desert giving you the best chance of staying human either, once again because, as I said, there are little to no natural resources out there. If you know how to fish, the ocean would provide a steady food supply, and in the snowy regions, you could supply water by collecting snow and letting it melt. The desert has no natural, easy-to-collect resources; everything you live off of would have to have been stockpiled in advance (which you couldn't do on short notice, and which only crazy gun-loving Glenn Beck followers are doing now). Life in the desert would take a crapload of time and money to be produce effective results for; the only way it would work would be if the werewolves were kind enough to tell you in advance about the upcoming werewolf apocalypse (and if they were smart enough to do that, I wouldn't worry about becoming one anyway).

[FoxKnight]

So if the werewolves are too dumb to be able to adapt to cold climates, develop hunting strategies, or maintain packs then none of us should be afraid of anything and all of the ideas we've formulated would work if we ended up killing them all. But if they were intelligent you wouldn't bother.

Does that mean that you would only carry out your plans if they were smart?

I see it as: humans already are smart enough to find ways to adapt, which would just be easier for the werewolves to adapt to colder climates than the desert because they have fur coats that keep them warm in the cold and not warm in the hot, ( which at least Louis/Ledrif agrees with me on); tend be with groups, which, as werewolves, would be packs; and are intelligent enough to figure out how best to kill another creature. Why a wolfish version of us wouldn't have these traits is my question.

If you give up because they are intelligent, I believe that is cause to say that you don't think your plans wouldn't work if staying human was priority number one. Joining them is not a plan to staying human, which is why the desert is the best way to not change longest. I know there would be a shortage of supplies but that would be the way the last survivors go, not due to being turned. The problems with the desert would be the only problems, they do not have problems with being attacked by the werewolves but they are caused because of the threat of them.

But now I'd rather just become one then have to keep arguing with you over this. And what is it with you bashing conservatism so much? I can't be in a thread with you and not hear something anti-conservative and hateful towards them. What is it about them that you find so detestable that you decide to slander them? ( As a precaution, I do not mean to turn this into a political thread by mistake again, I'm just curious of your strong viewpoint. I promise not to reply to your answer here as a rebutal or counter-argument. Actually, I'll just make this my last post here to make it easier for the rest of us. A true knight's word is his bond *beats paw against chestplate* )

[Terastas]

So if the werewolves are too dumb to be able to adapt to cold climates, develop hunting strategies, or maintain packs then none of us should be afraid of anything and all of the ideas we've formulated would work if we ended up killing them all. But if they were intelligent you wouldn't bother.

Does that mean that you would only carry out your plans if they were smart?

-_- No FoxKnight, that's not what it means. Actually, you just landed as far from the mark as possible.

I would carry out my plans regardless. My motivation, however, wouldn't be to "stay human," but rather to stay alive and sane.

My first strategy was to take haven in a boat anchored out at sea. I got the idea because I figured only somebody on par mentally with humanity could be capable of following me. I would expect a brain-dead zombie or a savage werewolf that jumped in the water after me to either get swept away with the tide or sink to the bottom and drown (assuming they even followed into the water at all) -- not to know how to swim in the ocean proper, much less make use of a boat or a life jacket to follow.

Hell, even some humans wouldn't know how to follow after me like that. So if the werewolves could follow, that would suffice to indicate that they're not as dumb as I would be afraid of potentially becoming.

It doesn't mean I would quit and allow myself to become infected immediately. It only means that if I failed and was infected, my expectations wouldn't be as grim. If werewolves prove to at least be as intelligent and communal as normal wolves, the only part of my strategy that will be eliminated is the part where I kill myself if I fail. If they're proven smarter than the average Alaskan Governor, I'll try to avoid killing any when I go ashore to restock -- smarter than the average Friedberg / Seltzer script and I'll stop looking for better weapons altogether. And so on and so forth -- the more it takes to outsmart them, the less worried I'll be about what will happen to me if I fail to do so.

But the werewolves would have to be intelligent enough to actually send me a written and signed statement (with correct spelling and proper punctuation) promising not to infect me (and figure out how to get it out to me) for me to actually quit my survival strategy altogether. Anything below that wouldn't cause me to quit -- only to expect failure not to suck as much.