Life After "Freeborn"

[Jamie]

If all goes as planned, someday Freeborn will be made. We'll probably still be here afterwards, since this discussion board has been given to the fans, and is not any longer owned by the producers and staff of Freeborn.
I expect that we'll all still be discussing Freeborn for a while after it is made. But then what? I'm sure this community won't dissolve then, they'll still be many people here talking. But can we do real, concrete good with that talking?
Specifically, I am wondering this: after Freeborn has been released and is out there and we've done all we can for it, do we want to try to attract another werewolf movie producer who will hopefully listen to our opinions and make another werewolf movie to the fans' liking? If Freeborn is really successful and Anthony is still interested, there is a possibility that this "next guy" could be Anthony again. But, if Anthony is done with werewolves after Freeborn, do we want to try to influence someone else?
I know this is looking a long time into the future, but I couldn't help but wonder. It is a nice hope, that this dream might be able to go on for years, and that the end result might be more than one excellent werewolf movie.

[Figarou]

Specifically, I am wondering this: after Freeborn has been released and is out there and we've done all we can for it, do we want to try to attract another werewolf movie producer who will hopefully listen to our opinions and make another werewolf movie to the fans' liking?

Well, its not like we are going to start all over and discuss "What should a werewolf be?" All the info is right here for them to see.

The only thing that will be different is the story itself.

[Vilkacis]

My opinion is that we should stop focusing solely on Freeborn now. We should refrain from talking about werewolves only in the context of Freeborn and start talking about all manner of werewolf.

I don't like it when I see potential discussions ignored or shoved aside because it's not the Freeborn way... or opinions smothered because they don't fit in Freeborn.

We need to broaden our horizons now, and then, and only then, will other movie producers find us to be a useful resource and come to us. We should not be The Pack that was made for and exists for Freeborn, but rather The Pack that advised Freeborn. We are our own entity now, and yet we remain tied to Freeborn -- this is not how it should be.

In my opinion, Freeborn (and any other movie that would like our input) should have it's own section, and discussion of those projects should remain mostly inside those areas.

It's a tough move.

-- Vilkacis

[Jamie]

My opinion is that we should stop focusing solely on Freeborn now. We should refrain from talking about werewolves only in the context of Freeborn and start talking about all manner of werewolf.

Should we do this just for our own pleasure, or should we have any ulterior purpose? For example, we could just as easily attempt to influence novel writers as movie-makers. Or perhaps we could compile the concensus opinions in a pack web page about "how werewolves ought to be" with all the statistics lined up in neat little graphs and a link to this discussion board for people who wanted to discuss with us. Or maybe there are yet other ulterior purposes that I haven't even thought of.
Of course, I don't need an ulterior purpose to stay here. It is fine either way with me.

[Figarou]

My opinion is that we should stop focusing solely on Freeborn now. We should refrain from talking about werewolves only in the context of Freeborn and start talking about all manner of werewolf.

Hmmmm......

What if a director comes in here and says he is making a movie about werewolves that kills anything in site. That they are the "bad guys" and must be stopped at all costs.


Will The Pack help in his efforts?

Those that are in favor of Freeborn may refuse to help out.

It's a tough move.

Indeed.

[Vilkacis]

What if a director comes in here and says he is making a movie about werewolves that kills anything in site. That they are the "bad guys" and must be stopped at all costs.

Will The Pack help in his efforts?

Those that are in favor of Freeborn may refuse to help out.

I'm sure plenty of Pack members would be willing to help out. I certainly would, even if I don't like those aspects in a werewolf. I think our help would still make it a better werewolf movie, and I'm all for that. I would point out that the Freeborn werewolves also have many, many significant differences from my own ideal werewolves, and have many traits that I hate just as much as blood lust (such as full moon shifting, silver, and regeneration). As long as the parameters are defined, I'm willing to help out. But if enough people express displeasure at the idea, then perhaps the director will get it through his head that fans are getting sick and tired of that kind of werewolf movie.

And that's what we're here for: better werewolves... right?

-- Vilkacis

[Jamie]

I'm sure plenty of Pack members would be willing to help out. I certainly would, even if I don't like those aspects in a werewolf. I think our help would still make it a better werewolf movie, and I'm all for that. I would point out that the Freeborn werewolves also have many, many significant differences from my own ideal werewolves, and have many traits that I hate just as much as blood lust (such as full moon shifting, silver, and regeneration). As long as the parameters are defined, I'm willing to help out. But if enough people express displeasure at the idea, then perhaps the director will get it through his head that fans are getting sick and tired of that kind of werewolf movie.

And that's what we're here for: better werewolves... right?

Very well put.

[Figarou]

What if a director comes in here and says he is making a movie about werewolves that kills anything in site. That they are the "bad guys" and must be stopped at all costs.

Will The Pack help in his efforts?

Those that are in favor of Freeborn may refuse to help out.

I'm sure plenty of Pack members would be willing to help out. I certainly would, even if I don't like those aspects in a werewolf. I think our help would still make it a better werewolf movie, and I'm all for that. I would point out that the Freeborn werewolves also have many, many significant differences from my own ideal werewolves, and have many traits that I hate just as much as blood lust (such as full moon shifting, silver, and regeneration). As long as the parameters are defined, I'm willing to help out. But if enough people express displeasure at the idea, then perhaps the director will get it through his head that fans are getting sick and tired of that kind of werewolf movie.

And that's what we're here for: better werewolves... right?

-- Vilkacis

Better werewolves, or better story?

Like you pointed out in another post of yours.. werewolves is just a tool.



http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewto ... 5710#25710

[Vilkacis]

Better werewolves, or better story?

Like you pointed out in another post of yours.. werewolves is just a tool.

The story is more important, but we don't have much control over that. Our purpose here is werewolves -- it's our job to build a better tool.

-- Vilkacis

[vrikasatma]

Here's a thought:

How about doing our own?

Digital video cameras are putting film-making into the hands of the shoestring filmmaker again. I know a couple people that have done films using DV technology.

[Figarou]

Better werewolves, or better story?

Like you pointed out in another post of yours.. werewolves is just a tool.

The story is more important, but we don't have much control over that. Our purpose here is werewolves -- it's our job to build a better tool.

-- Vilkacis

agreed!!

[Xodiac]

Influencing how werewolves are depicted is good. We all want better werewolves. There is some minor variation on what is "better" - some people don't like them to be vulnerable to silver, and some want them entirely nonmagical - but, by and large, we can agree when a werewolf is done well and when it is done poorly.

When we start trying to influence the story, though, we run into problems. The variety is much greater. Most stories will thus make someone unhappy, because they don't think it should go that way. Any attempt to please everyyone will become a movie-by-committee, bland and pleasing nobody.

So my recommendation is to concentrate of getting werewolf movies to do werewolves right, WITHIN THEIR PLOT. If their plot calls for werewolves to be good guys, lets help make them good werewolves. If their plot requires them to be bloodthirsty throat-rippers who get killed in the end to save the heroes, then let's help them become damn good killers.

[Renorei]

I would prefer a sequel to Freeborn rather than a different movie, if Freeborn turns out as good as I'm expecting it too.

However, I wouldn't necessarily want it to be like Freeborn 2 or whatever. I think putting numbers in the title of a sequel is cheesy. I like the way the Hannibal people did it: Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal, and Red Dragon (and don't forget Manhunt). And it wouldn't necessarily have to be the same characters either. Maybe an entirely different group of werewolves in a different place, with a whole new set of problems. Maybe this time they could be in a city or something. Of course, their bodies, behaviors, etc. would still be the same as what we have already come up with, and we would voice our opinions on different issues that might not have faced the Freeborn wolves but will face the new ones. Of course, the entire cast doesn't have to be new. Like if someone ran away at the end of Freeborn or was exiled, they could find new pack and new problems could arise, or maybe they turn their life around and become a better person.

I would totally love a sequel, but I don't want it to be like other Hollywood sequels. Other sequels are made for the sake of making money. If a sequel to Freeborn was made, I'd want it to be made for the sake of making another good werewolf movie.

Don't take this next suggestion too seriously. Maybe we could even bring in other legendary creatures. Like other were beasts or demons or griffins. I don't know how it would all work out, but if werewolves exist, why can't other legendary creatures? No vampires though. But if there are, they are the lackeys for the werewolves, and they don't have superstrength or magical powers. Just people who can't go out in sunlight and need to drink blood.

Edit: Or maybe if there was a sequel, it might not even have werewolves in it. Just some other mythical species. The pack could advise AB (or another movie director) on what we think some other legendary creature would be like. A whole new genre of movies could arise, accurately depicting legendary creatures the way the fans want to see them.

[Vuldari]

My opinion is that we should stop focusing solely on Freeborn now. We should refrain from talking about werewolves only in the context of Freeborn and start talking about all manner of werewolf.

I don't like it when I see potential discussions ignored or shoved aside because it's not the Freeborn way... or opinions smothered because they don't fit in Freeborn.

We need to broaden our horizons now, and then, and only then, will other movie producers find us to be a useful resource and come to us. We should not be The Pack that was made for and exists for Freeborn, but rather The Pack that advised Freeborn. We are our own entity now, and yet we remain tied to Freeborn -- this is not how it should be.

In my opinion, Freeborn (and any other movie that would like our input) should have it's own section, and discussion of those projects should remain mostly inside those areas.

It's a tough move.

-- Vilkacis

Influencing how werewolves are depicted is good. We all want better werewolves. There is some minor variation on what is "better" - some people don't like them to be vulnerable to silver, and some want them entirely nonmagical - but, by and large, we can agree when a werewolf is done well and when it is done poorly.

When we start trying to influence the story, though, we run into problems. The variety is much greater. Most stories will thus make someone unhappy, because they don't think it should go that way. Any attempt to please everyyone will become a movie-by-committee, bland and pleasing nobody.

So my recommendation is to concentrate of getting werewolf movies to do werewolves right, WITHIN THEIR PLOT. If their plot calls for werewolves to be good guys, lets help make them good werewolves. If their plot requires them to be bloodthirsty throat-rippers who get killed in the end to save the heroes, then let's help them become damn good killers.

Agreed ...and Agreed...


I must admit, that it is getting frustrating the way every suggestion is being directed towards "Freeborn", and all discussions applying Only to it.

I would love to start a whole new set of discussions about a completely "Different" Werewolf Movie...or Novel...or Comic Book...or whatever, that incorperates plot points, abilities and settings that would be completely WRONG for Freeborn, but very exiting to see in another Werewolf related production.

Focusing all our opinons on a single project is making alot of us (including myself) look very "one track minded", and making it appear as if some of us only want to see ONE kind of Werewolf story and ONE kind of Werewolf...which simply is not true.

What about starting new topics about "Imaginary" Novels, Comics or films that are NOT currently in production (or pre-production) that we would Like to see some day in the future...or even colletively create ourselves as an official "THE PACK" production in the near-or-distant future. (as vrikasatma suggested)

...and if we are going to broaden our perspective, I think it would be cool if we opened the boards to suggestions for projects that only involve werewolves to some minor or major extent, but are not primarily about them...as well as ideas that involve creatures other than Werewolves. (...*gasp*..."blasphemy!"...)
...like other shapeshifting legends, or films about regular wolves...or Dragons. (Dragons are cool. )

[Scott Gardener]

We're the first known major werewolf lobby on the planet. We have lobbied for a better werewolf movie, and it's in production now.

We should continue with our forward momentum, but it's not just about movies; it's about an idea, and about the execution of that idea in a more intelligent and elegant manner. We're tired of seeing our favorite image, to many of us now a form of identity, reduced to slathering mindlessness.

We can continue lobbying the movie industry, but we don't have to stop there. Imagine being able to go to a costume shop and find a realistic werewolf outfit for less than $300, rather than the thousands or the months of work that goes into designing one's own.

Not to mention, a better perception about werewolves could make people more aware about the nature of real wolves, and thus a bit more sympathetic towards ecological recovery efforts. Then we'll know it's not just a fringe form of geekdom we're into, but an actual, serious movement. (Just one that, admittedly, has a rather high geek factor.)

[Figarou]

Well, even though we have done our research, and posted "What we want in a werewolf," not all director's will agree.


Here is proof.

http://fullmoon.greggtaylor.com/forum/v ... id=240&p=2

scroll down half way and you'll see this.

Tails seem like a pretty hot topic, but in the end, it's the artist that gets to make the call, no? Tony's done a lot of research, stateside and abroad, so it's possible that tails weren't in every record out there?

[vrikasatma]

I would love to start a whole new set of discussions about a completely "Different" Werewolf Movie...or Novel...or Comic Book...or whatever, that incorporates plot points, abilities and settings that would be completely WRONG for Freeborn, but very exciting to see in another Werewolf related production.

ker-schnippety

What about starting new topics about "Imaginary" Novels, Comics or films that are NOT currently in production (or pre-production) that we would Like to see some day in the future

There's a number of writers on this board and except for the typos they're <b>good</b>
Seriously, at the very least, we should look into collecting them into an anthology, creating masters and shop it around to publishers.
The anime industry in particular is friendly to fan enterprise. It's like taking fanzines to the next level. There are whole movies made by fans in that genre; let's hold no illusions, they don't make money, but as any fanzine editor knows you don't have to become rich to influence a genre. Cinefantastique and Starlog started as fanzines.
We have, how many people in The Pack? I believe we have the potential to come out with something using the resources our group members can bring to bear.

...and if we are going to broaden our perspective, I think it would be cool if we opened the boards to suggestions for projects that only involve werewolves to some minor or major extent, but are not primarily about them...as well as ideas that involve creatures other than Werewolves. (...*gasp*..."blasphemy!"...)
...like other shapeshifting legends, or films about regular wolves

Just last night while I was doing housework, I thought about a wolf version of "Watership Down."
If that's what "Wolf Rain" is about, apologies — I don't have a television.

[Set]

I'd like to see movies about shapeshifters other than werewolves. There's only so much you can do with one species. I would still give my two cents if another werewolf movie was being discussed but I'd really like to see something else. Weretigers, or foxes perhaps...coyotes, hyenas, eagles...a little variety would be nice. Maybe even a movie with more than one kind of werecreature? I'd actually be looking foward to that more than a sequal to Freeborn if such a movie was going to be made.

[Renorei]

An entire community of different weres would be an awesome film. I would love to see all the different creatures.

[vrikasatma]

Keep your eyes peeled. I'm working on a story that has three werewolves, a weresnake, a werepanther, a werelion, a weretiger, a wereeagle, a weremonkey, a werehorse and a werebull traveling through Nepal and India. Those are the main characters: others include weregryphons, a weretortoise, wererats, weredolphins, wereboars, a Makara, and allusions to even weirder beings.

I expect to have it finished in December.

[Silverclaw]

I'll be looking for it Vrikastma

And I really hope that The Pack stays around after Freeborn is out. I'd love to help influence other movies/shows/novels/whatever. Help have a better werewolf portrayed and such I'd even like to help come up with other werecreatures (though the werewolf will always be the best) Talk about other species of shapeshifters like we are and have been doing here.

[vrikasatma]

Well, I'll give you a little taste of the "system" I'm using in the story:

One day Shiva came down from Mt. Kailasa to meditate in peace on Earth. He found a beautiful garden in the Shleshmantaka Forest of what is now Nepal and settling down under a jasmine-wrapped palm tree, He bade the animals of the forest to take up watchposts and keep anything that would disrupt His meditation away.

There were thirteen animals: Deer, Snake, Bull, Wolf, Lion, Tiger, Panther, Elephant, Crocodile, Horse, Monkey, Eagle and Boar (yes, I'm taking cues from the Chinese zodiac ). So that they may do their job better, Shiva awakened their Changing Fire into the more powerful Jvala, which continuously rejuvenated their bodies, purging poison, infection, disease, injury and decrepitude, and it had a side-effect: it allowed them to shapeshift into seven forms: Beast, Great Beast, Demon-Killer, Great Human, Human, Rakhshasa and Agni.

Those thirteen are still there, guarding the Temple of Pashupati, Lord of the Beasts, and to help them in their work they've had children down through the ages. They've also taught the trick of awakening the Changing Fire into Jvalas to other animals, turning them into the Beast Folk. Potentially, any animal can learn how to do this, including humans. The original thirteen call themselves the Circle of Shleshmantaka and the characters at the pivot of the story are young Beast Folk just getting their start in the world.

[Terastas]

Well, as has been stated, there are already plenty of artists and writers on this forum with their own individual works on werewolves and other lycanthropic varieties (myself among them), and there's no doubt in my mind that, since the Pack is getting mentioned in the opening credits, we will be getting some publicity once Freeborn is in theatres.

What I figure will happen is that once the various news and media outlets take an interest in the Pack, they'll inevitably take an interest in specific members of the pack, namely the top posters (I'm lookin' at you Fig), the top artists (I'm lookin' at you Goldy), and especially anyone that gets casted in Freeborn or mentioned by name by the Brownriggs in any of their interviews (for example, they might name Xodiac if they are asked why Pack members are sometimes called "Duckies," me if they are asked where the idea for ducky safehouse markers came from, or Figarou if they are asked why members of the audience pelted them with rubber ducks at the Freeborn debute).

Then once they've selected their Pack representatives, I figure it's inevitable that we'll let it slip that a lot of us have projects of our own in the making.

It's a long shot, but I figure that with so many creative minds in the Pack, it's inevitable that at least one of us will be able to use the publicity from the Pack to influence and promote a work of their own. Once that happens, I imagine said individual will want to put his idea to the same test Anthony Brownrigg submitted his to, and the first people s/he'll alert will be the rest of us.

And if that doesn't happen, we'll probably stick together anyway; either will pool our creative resources together to produce a single Pack project to catch the entertainment industry's interest, or we'll stick together as a Brownrigg fan club.

[Scott Gardener]

Hmm. (dusts off manuscript.) I've got my novels. Any of you publishers out there? I hear there's a Will Randall who's in the business, who's friendly to werewolves....

[Vilkacis]

Hmm. (dusts off manuscript.) I've got my novels. Any of you publishers out there? I hear there's a Will Randall who's in the business, who's friendly to werewolves....

If you're looking for a publisher, you could take a look at Baen. I think they might be the kind of thing you're looking for. I don't think they would have any problems with a book about werewolves (they have published stranger novels), and they also offer many of their books freely online, which is something you have been doing for a fair while now (so I imagine your viewpoints in that regard are fairly compatable). Even though they offer many of their books for free online, I have found that I tend to buy the paperback versions of the ones I like. They also seem to be friendly to new writers, fairly lenient and easy to work with (although, this is all from an outsider's perspective).

Anyway, I have always tried to support Baen. They may or may not be appropriate for you, but they would be among the first places I'd look at if I had a book of my own.

-- Vilkacis