What kind of transformation scene do you like best?

Calypso Blue · Post by **Calypso Blue** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 4:48 pm

Tigerwolf · Post by **Tigerwolf** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:13 pm

The stereotypical movie shows lots of closeups with pulsing , bubbling flesh and drooling mouths. This all may be good for the 'ick' factor, but does little else. Of course, it eases production since all the bits can be shot seperately and edited together, but it makes the sequence seem choppy and fake.

An uninterrupted long shot would seem much more believable if done well. I'd really like to see that in at least one sequence. Others could have a more balanced mix of shots, but the goal should be a realistic transformation rather than a 'look what nifty effects we're doing with models and CGI' kind of scene.

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:30 pm

My instinct is to take the middle ground option, mostly in one shot but with some cuts and close-ups. Simply put, things like a tail will be hard to put into a transformation without cuts, and a camera just sitting doing nothing while the transformation is ongoing seems a little boring.

If the focus is on detail and accuracy though, you cannot rely so much on cuts and close-up's like AWIL did. Besides, as Tigerwolf pointed out, those sorts of shots seem choppy and fake.

CAlypso Blue · Post by **CAlypso Blue** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:39 pm

What do you think about a 360 degree shot, the camera moving aroudn two individuals holding each other while they transform together? No cuts.. but moving camera.

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:00 pm

CAlypso Blue wrote:What do you think about a 360 degree shot, the camera moving aroudn two individuals holding each other while they transform together? No cuts.. but moving camera.

Not really sure what to think of that, probably because I don't know as much about camera shots as I should.

At a glance that almost sounds like a matrix shot but my conscious mind tells me that, that's probably not what you mean.

Slowly rotating the camera around the subject or subjects while the transformation shot plays out might work. However it seems a little slow pace to me. Then again, maybe that's what the film-makers are aiming for.

I guess my answer is simply that I'm not sure. I'd probably have a better answer for you if I saw an example of what you're talking about so as I had a better idea what you're suggesting.

Goldenwolf · Post by **Goldenwolf** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 1:53 am

I like a good mix of shots. I like detail shots, like the eyes changing, or teeth elongating, or fur sprouting as the camera moves up the figure, but I also like some full shots so you get a good overall idea of what's happening as well.

Xodiac · Post by **Xodiac** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 4:50 am

Gotta agree with Golden on this one. (BTW, GW, hi! Big fan of your art!) Closeups are good for details like eyes going wolven, or elongating teeth, but far shots to show what's generally going on is definitely needed. It's hard to get a feel for what's really happening when it's all closeups.

As for the 360 rotating camera, I was actually thinking exactly that when WO said something about the camera being still as we watch the guy change. Rotating around the subject(s) would certainly add some energy. I mean... imagine the camera is a person. Would you sit down calmly watching this happen from the couch, or would you get up and pace nervously, walking around him to see things as they happen? (Assuming you didn't run screaming in fear or horror, of course.) I gotta say you'd be pretty anxious, walking around a lot.

Winter · Post by **Winter** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:02 am

I feel that if this movie intends to go into a more intamate sexual side of things. Shouldnt be afraid to veiw the female and male clothless, if they end up so...changing. Thats something that people lack in every where wolf movie. They show female werewolves fine, show off the breasts ect. But they never show a male below the belt changing.

: And I think changes dont have to be painful. I think sometimes painless changes could occure or even changes that cause arousal and pleasure. Then pain and snarling drooling fearsome types.

:

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:55 am

I feel that if this movie intends to go into a more intamate sexual side of things. Shouldnt be afraid to veiw the female and male clothless

Clothless is fine if indeed the plot calls for it, one must keep in mind that, the subject may not always be expecting to change. If they aren’t expecting to change, then there's no reason to strip off their clothing and whatnot.

They show female werewolves fine, show off the breasts ect. But they never show a male below the belt changing.

On a female werewolf, it'd be a bit difficult to avoid the chest, where as, the area between the legs, is a little more easily avoidable from some angles. Besides, I myself am really not interested in seeing how the sexual equipment is changing. Infect, the transformation really isn't even all that important in my mind. Stories after all, are about people and character development. While transformation scenes are interesting, the way such transformations affect the subject and those around them on an emotional level should always take the front seat.

Question And I think changes dont have to be painful. I think sometimes painless changes could occure or even changes that cause arousal and pleasure. Then pain and snarling drooling fearsome types. Question

Indeed, changes don't necessarily have to be painful; however, different sensations are best for certain situations.

For example, if you're trying to emphasize the curse aspect, then pain is the way to go. If you're trying to emphasize the fact that the werewolves are physically superior, then a painless change makes sense. On the other hand, a pleasurable seems to emphasize a loss of control to me, an unchaining of the subjects primal nature.

On a side note, if changing into wolf-form were pleasurable, it's make sense to make the change back to human form, rather painful. The reason simply is that if unleashing the inner beast feels good, then restraining it would feel exactly the opposite.

Anyhow, as you can see, every option has its own strength, what it really comes down to though, is what the writers wish to emphasize.

dD · Post by dD » Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:17 am

you've gotta have close ups, that's the whole point.
We want to see the detail of the transformation, see the innards reform squelchily and then see how it effects the outside of the body.
You have to have a mixture of long shots and close ups otherwise it looks like a cheat if done long, the detail looks skipped, or if you cut away that can help budget which is always an issue but closeups are always cool with the snout extending and chest barreling out similar to the 'Howling' but in better light, not shrouded in shadow.
How come those old movies get it better done than the modern ones? By old I mean The 'Howling' and 'AWIL' it's depressing that nothing has done better since in the intervening 20 plus years.

Hmph

Winter · Post by **Winter** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 10:40 am

Yeah I like the idea mentioned about the human revert painful yet the transformation is plesurable and arousing...warm and comforting and they fear changing back to human, trying to find ways to stay in their were form... Yeah close ups are ok too i suppose...though be interesting to see shifting under clothing depneding on what was changing... Though If this ends up well... be cool to see perhaps a part with two nude humans one male and female turning into their were counterparts..

Silverclaw · Post by **Silverclaw** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 3:32 pm

I think that a lot of close ups will be needed. Especially for the first time we(the audiance) see it. We need to see some of the details, like blunt human teeth shifting into fangs; a tail growing; muzzle pressing out, ect. I hate it when movies just show a shot from a distance of a transformation thats done in 2 seconds. Wide shots are also good to see, so we can see how the transformation is going as a whole. I like the 360 moving camera idea. The two werewolves holding each other while transforming sounds so sweet

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:52 am

I hope we get to see a test of frontal too...clothingless? I hope?

:

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:06 pm

I hope we get to see a test of frontal too...clothingless? I hope?

Mmm... I don't see an inherent reason why full frontal nudity is needed for a transformation scene. Heck, a lot of audiences would probably just be wierded out by it.

I'm sure the movie makers will figure out what they want though, on this subject, we should just wait and see.

winter · Post by **winter** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:01 pm

Hmmm... Though are they going to even show examples..or tests of humans transforming?

akujiwolf · Post by **akujiwolf** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:57 pm

I like a basically uninterrupted shift with the occasional closeup for effect.

ShadowFang · Post by **ShadowFang** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:15 am

I'm all for the 360 camera rotation for the transformation sequence. However, things should be executed in a way that the camera begins to rotate around the two subjects during the beginning and the end of the transformation. In between there can be close-ups on specifcs happening such as the fangs growing/hair lengthing, legs shifting...etc.

As for mood during the transformation... Well, I like to think that something like a transformation would be quite painful. If you think about how it feels when your bones shift when you have braces. When they adjust your braces to make them tighter, you're in hell for at least 2 days. That's just a tiny bone shift. Can you imagine the pain that would happen when say you're entire skull was contorting and shifting or even your legs? Quite painful. So painful in fact that some one think the subjects would black out form the sheer pain. However, if we had a heap of flesh on the ground displaying no emotions while shifting, that would be boring. So, my suggestion would be that it should be protrayed as a painful sequence. However, those who have been werewolves longer can enjoy the transformation and grin in painful bliss as they know what they are transforming into. However, younger werewolves who do know know any better would be crying out in pain. I just can't see anything like that being pleasurable.

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 10:55 am

ShadowFang wrote: However, those who have been werewolves longer can enjoy the transformation and grin in painful bliss as they know what they are transforming into. However, younger werewolves who do know know any better would be crying out in pain. I just can't see anything like that being pleasurable.

"My God, why are you grinning like that? You've just broke your arms and your legs and your pelvis is smashed to bits!"
"I know, my insurance is paid up."

runningwolf · Post by **runningwolf** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:05 pm

Apokryltaros wrote:
ShadowFang wrote: However, those who have been werewolves longer can enjoy the transformation and grin in painful bliss as they know what they are transforming into. However, younger werewolves who do know know any better would be crying out in pain. I just can't see anything like that being pleasurable.
"My God, why are you grinning like that? You've just broke your arms and your legs and your pelvis is smashed to bits!"
"I know, my insurance is paid up."

That comment really got me laughing.

Still, you're quite right. Why would someone be happy when they're in total pain? I'd think the way a werewolf transformation would work would probably be painful for the first few times, but then their body becomes used to it, therefore numbing the pain. Just my two cents on the matter.

Jinroh · Post by **Jinroh** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:17 pm

I agree with the getting used to the transformation over time. However, in regards to the transformation scene, I believe it should be for the most part a a distance shot with a few close-ups here and there. Especially if there are humans around as catch their reactions. I also agree if there are too many close-ups it very strongly takes away from the overall awe and effect of the transformation. Making it rather boring and uninspired.

navalagVLK · Post by **navalagVLK** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 2:42 pm

I've got a whole lot to say that adds to what has been said, but I'd love to see the pre-mentioned 360 degree view of the transformation. I'd like it to be slow though, so we can see it as it happens and not have a blurred idea of what's going on.

Minimise the closeups to the drastic transformaitons such as the rising of the chest, or the changing of the posture or the legs changing from plantigrade to digitigrade. The major tihngs like those that make a werewolf seem like a werewolf

--Mitchell

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:32 pm

CAlypso Blue wrote:What do you think about a 360 degree shot, the camera moving aroudn two individuals holding each other while they transform together? No cuts.. but moving camera.

This was more what I was thinking when I mentioned a continous shot. I agree that a totally static camera would do little, but with movemnet, it could be like a ballet....especially if there's a pair transforming and the moment is lased with a hint of romance between the two. Dolly shots, zooms, pans, and tilts could provide detail without los of continuity and grace that cuts and edits would lack. Note I'm assuming here that the scene is one with both some awe and reverence for that's transpiring: the transformation is shown for its mystery and beauty...not one resulting in some stereotypical villan. This one's for the good guys!

And quite honestly, done well, could be an artistic movie milestone.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:30 am

Whatever you guys decide to do with this movie regarding TFs, I only have one request: please make a good, detailed, and long (preferably around two minutes at least) TF involving a girl changing. If not to appease me and all the other werewolf TF fans out there, than just to be different. There has never been a decent female werewolf TF before on film. The closest one was "Ginger Snaps," but it took her the whole movie to TF, kind of like "The Fly." I don't want a drawn-out TF like that. There have been a few good ("The Howling," "Silver Bullet," "American Werewolf in London," "Van Helsing," and "In the Company of Wolves"), but mostly bad (everything else), male TFs but no good female TFs. Also, I would want her to enjoy the TF, like releasing her inner beast, not scared or in too much pain, like she's surprised and doesn't know what's happening to her body. She should already know she's a werewolf, become aroused, and even summon it if it's not a full moon (like the first "Howling"). There could be clothes ripping while she's changing or she could just rip off her clothes right before she changes. Also, I would, as well as numerous other fans, appreciate nudity during this scene. That's my only request with this movie. If it goes right, you guys would make history.

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:23 pm

Anonymous wrote:... Also, I would want her to enjoy the TF, like releasing her inner beast, not scared or in too much pain, like she's surprised and doesn't know what's happening to her body. She should already know she's a werewolf, become aroused, and even summon it if it's not a full moon (like the first "Howling").

Apparently, you have never experienced the horrors of a woman going through PMS, aka "That Time of the Month."
Think of what would happen if you were to compound that time of the month with this time of the month (aka "lycanthropy").

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:23 pm

I agree that a good mix is best. You need a few long, wide shots to get the Big Picture, but close ups help to pull you in so you can almost Feel their pain...or fear.
Very long and overblown sequences I think would drag the story to a halt though.
5-7 minutes on a single sequence would be too long if the Change is the only thing happening in that scene. If half of the focus was deverted to the other people in the aria panicking or otherwise reacting to the event, then dragging it out woluldn't overkill the moment as much. I think it can be assumed that more than one transformation will take place, so it seems logical to me to spead it out through all of them. The first change by the lead werewolf character would be the longest, but maybe show less by focusing on close ups to amplify the feeling of confusion. Then, in latere sequences, the scenes would be much shorter but show more of the BIg Picture, showing off the entire form changing at once.
Of course...that's just my opinion.
As for Nude Female Werewolves .... such a sequence would certainly make for a "memorable" movie moment, but I fear it would drag down the respectability of the remainder of the film. I strongly advise, and Plead against it...at least to any extremes. I good Femme tranformation would be quite welcome though.

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