Transplantations

[Lycanthrope]

There has been much discussion about Werewolves immunity systems, but I haven't seen this issue mentioned.
What if for some reason a Werewolf had a transplantation performed? Would his enchanced organism reject this, let's say, liver, despite of medicaments? If it didn't, how would the operation affect shifting?
And the other way around. What if normal human received a Lycanthropic liver? Would that be enough to gain Lycanthropy? Would he face a bizarre event of single organ shapeshifting?
I invite You to the discussion.

[Renorei]

I don't think a werewolf getting a transplant would cause him much problems in shifting.

I do, however, think that transplanting a werewolf body part would be enough to give someone lycanthropy. (Which leads me to another point...werewolves are probably not organ donors)

[Lupin]

And the other way around. What if normal human received a Lycanthropic liver? Would that be enough to gain Lycanthropy? Would he face a bizarre event of single organ shapeshifting?
I invite You to the discussion.

I'd say that he'd become a werewolf, since lycanthropy can be transmitted by much less (bite.) The remaning virus in the organ would spread around the rest of the system and he'd end up contracting it. He might even get it faster than a regular person since his immune system would be supressed due to the transplant.

[NarnianWolfen]

I don't see a werewolf needing a transplant. They're supposed to be remarkably fast healers, unless it's from a silver weapon. o.o

[Renorei]

True, but being a fast healer won't trump a weak heart. Some maladies are in your genes. So I'd say that werewolves would probably need transplants less often, but might still need them on occasion.

[NarnianWolfen]

Wouldn't the very nature of being a werewolf strengthen them some, though?

[Renorei]

Wouldn't the very nature of being a werewolf strengthen them some, though?

Of course. But some things are unavoidable, no matter how healthy you are (at least that's how I see it.)

[outwarddoodles]

Don't ask me, but I would like to add something for the others to slam their heads on.

What if they say have a pole for a leg? My dad was in a car crash years ago and the lower part of one of his legs has a pole in replacement of a bone, how would that work for a werewolf?

[Renorei]

I'd say that werewolf would have serious problems.


Honestly, I wouldn't know what to do with that. Maybe we could say that the bone would grow rapidly to fill in the places that the metal rod doesn't cover? That's the only thing I can come up with.

[Terastas]

Don't ask me, but I would like to add something for the others to slam their heads on.

What if they say have a pole for a leg? My dad was in a car crash years ago and the lower part of one of his legs has a pole in replacement of a bone, how would that work for a werewolf?

This is similar to something I was going to bring up: A girl I knew in Junior High had a rod in her back to correct a spinal disfigurement (forget the medical term).

It pretty much varies depending on how much you think lycanthropy can repair, but the overall consensus so far seems to be that the line is drawn at the reconstruction of bone. That established, I think there's a good chance that a bone replacement or correctional device would be dislocated durring the shifting process.

The other argument is that bones do regrow, just really slowly compared to the rest of the body, but that wouldn't really make things better for the surgically assisted werewolf either. They could theoretically... *shudders* remove it before it causes any problems and then just let lycanthropy heal naturally, but... Well, explaining why you traded your peg bone for a peg leg would be difficult enough, nevermind all the physical tensions that would come with it.

This might be another reason for Jack and co. to value the records department: People with handicapped parking stickers are off limits.

[outwarddoodles]

Well, bone isn't very fast growing. When antlers grow for bucks that is one of the fastest bone ever seem to grow, even so requires alot of nutrition and even alot of minerals taken from the Buck's skeleton. I don't know what would happen to the rod, I'd imagine being pushed out, turning into one weird visit to the hostbital and alot of confused doctors, or somehow grown over, posibly created a very deformed bone there.

[Kretel]

The bone would almost have to regrow (after all most ideas of a shift involves a massive change in the skeletal system), or if not regrow then it the bar would have to suffice. Either way, that particular werewolf is in for a hell of a lot of pain when a) the new bone dislodges that bar or b) he shifts and the bar doesn't change with the rest of the skeletal design.

Though, most likely the bone wouldn't regrow completely (at least not immediately) Outward is right. Something like that would require way too much resource to be done quickly. Not enough calcium just free in the body, and its not like anything can be done with the bar! That werewolf is most likely need to keep the bar in their body for support, but its not going to go well when they're not human ...

However, I know someone who had something similar happen to them. (The back problem not lycanthropy) and the doctors actually used coral to mend the break. Now coral IS essentially calcium deposits. Would that shift like a normal bone?

[Anubis]

if a werewolf had a human organ transplanted in him i would think that organ would become a werewolf and if its the other way around that would be enouf to turn the human into a werewolf

[Renorei]

Well, there are some people that are really short. Too make themselves taller, doctors break their bones and put their limbs in braces, and they can't walk for several months until new bone grows in the space between the bones. They usually get a couple inches taller.

If a regular human can regrow bone a few inches in several months, I would say that a werewolf could maybe regrow a heck of a lot more in several months. They would have to have an assload of bedrest, and TFing during this time period would be excrutiating.

Of course, there'd be problems with this. How to find a doctor/vet who would set a brace for you instead of giving you a rod when you break a bone, or how to find one that would replace your rod with a brace for old breakages (on new werewolves)? I would guess they would have to either make the doctor one of them or tell him the truth about werewolves and hope he wouldn't squeal.

Anyway, that's my take on how a werewolf in this situation might find a solution for their problem.

As to the coral comment: Yeah, I think the coral would grow during the TF. It's living material, so I don't see why not.

[Trinity]

*ponders* Very intresting question.

*thinks long and hard about this*

[Terastas]

Well, there are some people that are really short. Too make themselves taller, doctors break their bones and put their limbs in braces, and they can't walk for several months until new bone grows in the space between the bones. They usually get a couple inches taller.

If a regular human can regrow bone a few inches in several months, I would say that a werewolf could maybe regrow a heck of a lot more in several months. They would have to have an assload of bedrest, and TFing during this time period would be excrutiating.

Good point. And I can think of a few case scenarios as to how this would be represented via lycanthropy.

The first would be that, as you've just described, bones do regenerate, but slower than the rest of the body. A broken bone might go unnoticed, but one that's missing altogether, I honestly believe, would still take a substantial ammount of time. The only possibility I could think of where this wouldn't happen would be if you could argue that bone cannot regrow if... Well, since I don't know the medical term: the space it would grow into is occupied (IE: wouldn't grow in place of the replacement). That, of course, would be highly unlikely for a werewolf as the bone replacement would likely be repositioned during shifting.

The other would be to say that bones do not regrow as a result of the regenerative properties of lycanthropy, but will regrow during shifting. The very first thing we established on this forum was that werewolves are supposed to have tails, which would require a process of elongation in the spine. It could therefore be that, in the event of missing bone, a werewolf shifting from human to gestalt would have an equally proportioned "gap" when the bones elongate, but durring the shift back from gestalt to human, the bone would not reduce to it's exact original state. In other words, the werewolf might gain a centimeter or two with every time he shifts to and back from his gestalt form.

Either way, it'd be pretty hard to explain to a doctor or their many piers.

[Apokryltaros]

Do note that bone is actually fast-growing.
(It just takes a while to grow back from injuries, though cartilage injuries take much longer than bone to regenerate)
Because bone also serves as the body's main calcium repository, it's reabsorbed at a rate a little slower than it's deposited. As such, your bone tissue three years from now is different from the bone you have now.

[Trinity]

*shakes head to self*

I just don't see a werewolf either needing, or getting any kind of transplant.

The logistics of it just wouldn't work well.

If, say, the werewolf -does- need a transplant.., it would have to be done by a werewolf doctor, in a werewolf contorled hospital.

Otherwise the docs are going to go "Hey virus?" Can't trnasplant until its cured. Oh whats this? The patient is refusing treatment? Well lets study it anyway, just in case they change their mind..., they do need a transplant after all.

IMO

[Figarou]

Transplants from werewolf to human, or from a human to a werewolf is just plain silly.


nuff said.

[Terastas]

*shakes head to self*

I just don't see a werewolf either needing, or getting any kind of transplant.

The logistics of it just wouldn't work well.

True, but a werewolf may have had a transplant prior to becomming a werewolf.

[Apokryltaros]

*shakes head to self*

I just don't see a werewolf either needing, or getting any kind of transplant.

The logistics of it just wouldn't work well.

True, but a werewolf may have had a transplant prior to becomming a werewolf.

"Hairclub for wolfmen"?

[Renorei]

*shakes head to self*

I just don't see a werewolf either needing, or getting any kind of transplant.

The logistics of it just wouldn't work well.

If, say, the werewolf -does- need a transplant.., it would have to be done by a werewolf doctor, in a werewolf contorled hospital.

Otherwise the docs are going to go "Hey virus?" Can't trnasplant until its cured. Oh whats this? The patient is refusing treatment? Well lets study it anyway, just in case they change their mind..., they do need a transplant after all.

IMO

um...viruses can't be cured.


Anyway, I still can see reasons why a werewolf would need a transplant. It doesn't matter how healthy you are, you can never completely trump genetics. If you're born with a defective or degenerative (does that exist?) organ, lycanthropy most likely couldn't fix that. Anyway, I think a werewolf could probably hide his lycanthropy from doctors, especially if he's been one a while. The human organ would merely become infected with the virus as well, and everything would be ok for the werewolf.

However, a human who got a werewolf organ would definitely not be in for a fun ride. So the way I see it:

Human organ + werewolf = not stupid

Werewolf organ + human = really really stupid

[Trinity]

*shakes head to self*

I just don't see a werewolf either needing, or getting any kind of transplant.

The logistics of it just wouldn't work well.

True, but a werewolf may have had a transplant prior to becomming a werewolf.

*iamges run rampant through her head*

o.O

O.o

O.O!

eep.

I can see that having some severe issues. I don't think the lost limb would grow back. especially if the body has been "used" to the limb -bieng- missing.

But I can see it causinf serious problems with the transformation! oui man. Makes my brain hurt. oo Poor werewolf.

As for organ transplants, to make it simple, from the movie stand point, I can see them being just as easily infected. Thus being able to intergrate into the body better, If anything an organ patient would probally benefit from being bittn. Less chance of organ rejection. ;)

*chuckles*

[CrypticIdentity]

Dunno for transplants, but as for lost limbs, the only thing I can think of is Doc Connors/The Lizard from Spider-Man. His arm regenerates everytime he turns into the lizard, and then shrinks again when he changes back to human.

...Of course, that's for the most part because reptiles have regenerative abilities, and was the whole REASON for Doc Connors becoming the Lizard anyways .

[Scott Gardener]

I would expect incidence of organ rejection to be higher than in non-lycanthropic patients. I would also expect the infection process of the transplanted organ--which would immediately be exposed to the lycanthrope virus and subjected to the infection process--to be at risk for sudden failure.

Lycanthropy should do well towards preventing someone from getting to the point of needing organ transplants, but in someone who already has a transplant and then gets infected, the risks would be significantly less than for someone with lycanthropy who then undergoes a transplant.

It's difficult to extrapolate what steroid antiinflammatories and other immune suppressants would do to a lycanthrope, even when I use my own defined lycanthrope virus. Suppressing the immune system shouldn't directly affect shapeshifting, but I'm sure the immune suppression drugs would cause other problems. They do enough for normal people.

People on immune suppression drugs have a higher incidence of acquiring lycanthropy from a scraping "barely broke the skin," "it didn't bleed" bite.

I'll do a blow-by-blow of the usual organs:

Kidneys: Ancient legend meets urban legend. Usually transplanted into diabetics. (Type II diabetics are often improved or even cured by lycanthropy, whereas Type I diabetics, the ones who have to have insulin regularly or they'll die, tend to get more fragile, and rarely survive the initial infection process.) The kidney has a high volume of blood flow, and tends to become infected fairly quickly with the virus. The infection process tends to create breakdown products that the kidney must in turn remove from the blood, which in this case makes incidence of transplant failure very high.

Heart: High blood flow--both the obvious, that it's the organ responsible for flowing blood in the first place, and secondarily it's own supply from three branches off the base of the aorta. A transplanted heart is denervated--that is, it does not respond to sympathetic or parasympathetic input. It will tend to beat at its own rate, which tends to be a little fast--maybe 90 bpm. It won't be able to speed up under stress, and this could cause a werewolf to be prone to fainting while shapeshifting. The heart muscle tends to respond fairly well to infection with the lycanthrope virus, though risks of embolism--and sudden heart attack--is higher than in non-lycanthropes, as is risk for sudden arrythmias, including ventricular fibrillation--the one where you pull out the paddles, give STAT epinephrine doses, intubate, do other dramatic medical stuff, and usually die anyway.

Liver: Also a high blood flow organ. It is less likely to fail following transplantation, simply because it is a lot more redundant. You can lose a lot of liver before you need a transplant, and it's internal structure is not as specific--you can lose any one part and the rest still works. Not the same for the heart, where little places like the sinoatrial node, less than a cubic centimeter, can make or break the whole system.

Skin grafts and corneal transplants: usually pretty well tolerated.

Xenotransplantation with canine organs: the fact that lycanthropy borrows canine elements does not appear to be significant. In controlled studies, success of xenotransplantation in the lycanthropic patient with canine organs does not appear to be any more successful than in non-lycanthropes, and remains less successful than allografts (human organ transplants).

sources:

"Allograft and Xenograft Tolerance in the Lycanthropic Patient," British Journal of Lycanthropy and Variant Therianthropy, August 7, 2027, vol. 4, no. 35.

"Incidence of Kidney Transplantation Failure in the Lycanthropic Individual Versus the General Population", American Journal of Nephrology, January 14, 2025.