THE PACK Message Boards

yes i would only if it is necessarily. only if the person i am turning is capable of handling the wolf.

ladygrail wrote:Even for those people who want to be changed into a werewolf, there are a great deal of things to consider. Right now we are speculating on what it would be like to be a werewolf. I personally have no idea what it is like to change, but must assume it will be extremely painful. The idea that you might lose all sense of who you are when in WW form, then this makes it more likely you might hurt someone you love even kill them.

Other posts I read take into account those who do want to be changed must consider mental status, health, etc. But assessing that might be very difficult for an average person to do. Then we have issues that being changed can create other mental disorders such as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder or mental breaks from reality even if the person is sane to begin with.

A greater concern might be why those people want to be changed in the first place. People who would actually want lycanthropy tend to come in one of two varieties: Those that have unrealistic expectations about it, and those that intend to use it. Either way, they would be a severe liability once infected.

The best you could really hope for would be someone who is indifferent to it; who doesn't actually want to be a werewolf himself, but who would be willing to become one if it was deemed necessary.

And the only situation in which I could consider an infection appropriate would be if it was someone that had already spent several years with the pack, was not just invested emotionally in the pack, had taken some significant level of responsibility for the pack, and was now just as much at risk of getting shot in the face as those already infected were. If somebody was literally risking their life for the rest of us, I would consider it worthwhile to infect them so they can regenerate and be at less of a risk of dying, at least provided that they agreed with me that all the drawbacks of being a werewolf were worth it in exchange for that one perk.

Grey wrote:Would you Turn someone if you had the chance?

What if they asked you to?

no,meybe only if i completly trust him and hes not an idiot

Wow, can't believe I never posted on this one...

Well, based off my werewolves, I'd have to say: It depends.
Using some of the characters that exist in my verse.
Joan, a very strong and healthy woman died during the transmission and turning process due to injuries received

Abe refused to try to turn Ruth, despite loving her and the (minor) health benefits and (SLIGHTLY 150 max) longer lifespan because Ruth was well over 60 when they met and both knew turning would almost certainly kill her at that age.

Abe himself was turned unwillingly.

Jennifer turns Jack because she likes how he views humans and she's attracted to him. In turn, when he suggests some women to spare to Jennifer to become their 'pack'... and thus Mary, Elizabeth, Anne, Jane and Catherine are turned and 'kept' by Jennifer.

Kichibo (named in honor a friend, killed last month ) DOES turn one person, her younger step-sister. However that was by accident while she was in cat form trying to SAVE Ayanna's life. (Key was not aware that her bite could pass the viriod/symbiot on, nor was she aware that her step-sister had the genetic gene that interacts with the viriod to allow the bite to work in the first place - my verses explanation for why the whole planet aren't shifters: only born shifters have the modified saliva glands (zogomatic) that can pass on through the bite, and the bitee needs a recessive, yet relatively common (like blue eyes), gene. When those two 'link up', and the person survives the turning process, they become a shifter as well)

Finn willingly turned his sister, Fiona, at her request. He later turns his wife and Fiona's husband: in all cases everyone was aware of Finn being a werewolf and agreed to, and in some cases requested, the turn.

And there's more of that gong on in the background, sometimes not even with named characters ^^

i dont have heart too change someone even if he wants it

Man, I'm reading a lot of stuff here that makes my hair curl, and not in a good way.

I don't believe for a second that "becoming a werewolf" can in any way, shape, or form, be legitimately "necessary" proposition for anything of value to a human being, it's not up there with penicillin or vaccines. There's been several attempts to contrive an argument, such as saving someone's life? I honestly have to scoff whole heartedly at the idea, simply because once "turned", as so many delight in the concept of, you aren't actually human anymore for one, and for another, it's a one off grace, with a laundry list of consequences. If you're happy with that, go for it, but if I became a werewolf, I'm not going to inflict that on anybody, they can beg and plead, or try force my hand all they want, if it's their time to die, then it's their time, lycanthropy isn't a legitimate reprieve for any of it.

That said, I'm not made of stone, I'd turn someone to save their life because I love them and I want them to stay with me, or because they'd feel we were close if we shared it, legitimacy be damned, it still works. Besides all that, lycanthropy sounds like jolly spiffing fun (well, speculated shifting pains aside). I don't know if it qualifies as another species, which suggests some actual separation from the human species, or if it can be classified as an additional trait, much like the idea of different races of human, they're adapted to different environments and can have strikingly different outward appearance and traits, but are all still humans, in this case lycanthropy may be to that, what a "stand alone" wolf would be to a human, except with various levels of integration.

I certainly wouldn't be swapping sides or identity from human to werewolf, I will always be me inside my head, and as confused as I may be about my humanity and my place within humanity, I'd be equally as confused about my lycanthropy and my place within "the werewolf species/family", but since I am human so far as classification systems go, I'm not going to dump that because of some hair, fangs, and claws every now and then. My priority is to my base, human. To me lycanthropy is just another wondrous oddity, floating in an ocean of other floating wondrous oddities, and floating in that sea myself, I'd do what I've always done, simply try to live with what is.

The Meeper.

I would for 1 of 2 reasons;

1) If I knew that they could handle the wolf.
2) If they were badly wounded and dying.

but there is a problem meeper has mention it you will become something else

Lycanthropy as some of us conceive it bundles superior endurance, enhanced strength, superhuman hearing and smell, and remarkable regenerative abilities. Someone who has no interest in wolves or therianthropy could still want lycanthropy in order to get relief from chronic pain, cure cancer, heal lung damage from COPD, repair the effects of coronary artery disease... The list goes on. As a medical wonder alone, lycanthropy could improve the lives of millions. One you spend an afternoon working in an ER, you get the idea that one would have a hard time in good conscience NOT bringing about a lycanthropy epidemic that threatens to render obsolete the unmodified human form.

Yes, Donna, we're looking at you. Character concepts and emotional issues, anyone?

Scott Gardener wrote: As a medical wonder alone, lycanthropy could improve the lives of millions. One you spend an afternoon working in an ER, you get the idea that one would have a hard time in good conscience NOT bringing about a lycanthropy epidemic that threatens to render obsolete the unmodified human form.

Um... Does anybody else find that statement just the teensy-weensiest bit disturbing? Are you suggesting infecting people against their will for their own good? Or any sentence or line of thought involving the phrase "Master Race"?

Uniform Two Six wrote:

Scott Gardener wrote: As a medical wonder alone, lycanthropy could improve the lives of millions. One you spend an afternoon working in an ER, you get the idea that one would have a hard time in good conscience NOT bringing about a lycanthropy epidemic that threatens to render obsolete the unmodified human form.

Um... Does anybody else find that statement just the teensy-weensiest bit disturbing? Are you suggesting infecting people against their will for their own good? Or any sentence or line of thought involving the phrase "Master Race"?

I don't know, Scott might have something there, in a sense, I guess you could argue that lycanthropy could be quite possibly the biggest symbiotic upgrade to an organism since the gaining mitochondria during the great oxygenation event. I don't think anybody will argue too vigorously against the consequences of that particular happening. Still, it probably wouldn't be too funny.

The Meeper.

I think part of the issue with this disscusion is the fact that eachof us views 'lycanthropy' differently.
Some view it as a curse, some view it as the best thing since Pennicillin (I know I spelled that wrong)...
I honestly see it... hmmm... neutral, I guess you could say. For me you could compare it to a radical new surgary procedure. For SOME people, it would improve their lives, make them happy - life would be great. But that's based off of their personality, life style, even their health and the like.
For others it would make life H#LL. Some procedure but maybe they have a haleth problem taht lycanthropy would 'bring back' or worsen. Maybe for them not being wholly human is a BAD thing. Maybe they have the wrong life style. They're not wrong, it's just hat lycanthropy is not right ofr them.
Others (Like my characters Jack and Jennifer) got it and became monsters... evil people who finally had an excuse for what they wanted to do.
So... yeah - a readical new surgary procedure. NOT right for everyone, and DANGEROUS, as many can die during the turning process... some people can't change anyway (lacking the gene for me), and there are ways that the turning process can go 'wrong' in my verse too.
You'll note that out of all my characters, Finn was the only one who turned people willingly, and those were people that were already in the 'know'. JAck and Jennifer turned people that they were other wise going to kill and EAT. Key turned someone by mistake trying to save them,
Abe refused to turn someone.
There rest were turned unwillingly.

*shrugs* In my verse Lycanthopy is not a cure all, or a wonderful thing. Nor is it a curse. It provides a slightly longer life-span due to the advanced healing that occurs during a shift. You're physically stronger due to increased musle and bone density. ...You also sink like a stone, so swimming is HARD-to-impossible. Your calorie intake is HIGH due to the high metabolism. shifting hurts like a devil. ...for every advantage, a disadvantage.
...
So please ask your doctor to be sure that lycantropy is right for you, read these pamplets and be certain to read the fine text on this permission form before signing and we'll open up discussions with the local pack in the morning.
...
Sorry, it was a long drive to Jacksonville and I'm more than a little loopy from exhustion... Apologies for the rambling, I hope I made at least a little sense and I do hope I did not offend anyone.
Hope you had a Happy Thanksgiving to those in the states, hope you're having a nice weekend to everyone in general.
I gotta go crash. 8 hours driving down.... 8 more to get down to the Keys for the funeral.

-Alteron

Uniform Two Six wrote:

Scott Gardener wrote: As a medical wonder alone, lycanthropy could improve the lives of millions. One you spend an afternoon working in an ER, you get the idea that one would have a hard time in good conscience NOT bringing about a lycanthropy epidemic that threatens to render obsolete the unmodified human form.

Um... Does anybody else find that statement just the teensy-weensiest bit disturbing? Are you suggesting infecting people against their will for their own good? Or any sentence or line of thought involving the phrase "Master Race"?

i do and i find hint on racism

I do not see anything hinting on racism in Scotts post. I think Scott meant it to be sort of a joke, but if you think about it, he does have a point.

lovec1990 wrote:

Uniform Two Six wrote:

Scott Gardener wrote: As a medical wonder alone, lycanthropy could improve the lives of millions. One you spend an afternoon working in an ER, you get the idea that one would have a hard time in good conscience NOT bringing about a lycanthropy epidemic that threatens to render obsolete the unmodified human form.

Um... Does anybody else find that statement just the teensy-weensiest bit disturbing? Are you suggesting infecting people against their will for their own good? Or any sentence or line of thought involving the phrase "Master Race"?

i do and i find hint on racism

The way I see it Gardeners view on lycanthropy and the benefits of it(healing abilities) would help human kind and it would be difficult not to share such a gift.I don't see any hint at racism being made in either statement.Maybe there is some confusion in regards to the words "Master Race" being used.I think Uniform Two Six is just refering to the fact that we would naturally jump to the top of the food chain.I just hope that the next time I'm in the ER the attendant or who ever has the same view as Gardener ,that they suffer from lycanthropy,their conscious gets the better of them and they decide to infect me for the betterment of mankind.

Sevena wrote:

lovec1990 wrote:

Uniform Two Six wrote:

Scott Gardener wrote: As a medical wonder alone, lycanthropy could improve the lives of millions. One you spend an afternoon working in an ER, you get the idea that one would have a hard time in good conscience NOT bringing about a lycanthropy epidemic that threatens to render obsolete the unmodified human form.

Um... Does anybody else find that statement just the teensy-weensiest bit disturbing? Are you suggesting infecting people against their will for their own good? Or any sentence or line of thought involving the phrase "Master Race"?

i do and i find hint on racism

The way I see it Gardeners view on lycanthropy and the benefits of it(healing abilities) would help human kind and it would be difficult not to share such a gift.I don't see any hint at racism being made in either statement.Maybe there is some confusion in regards to the words "Master Race" being used.I think Uniform Two Six is just refering to the fact that we would naturally jump to the top of the food chain.I just hope that the next time I'm in the ER the attendant or who ever has the same view as Gardener ,that they suffer from lycanthropy,their conscious gets the better of them and they decide to infect me for the betterment of mankind.

i would only agree if it would save my life

Sevena wrote: The way I see it Gardeners view on lycanthropy and the benefits of it(healing abilities) would help human kind and it would be difficult not to share such a gift.

Here's what I find disturbing about the idea. Regardless of whether or not you find the idea of lycanthropy to be a blessing, the rather more pertinent question is what the person you are contemplating turning thinks. I just think it's sort of arrogant to assume that being a werewolf is better than being human, and then making that decision for another person without their input. Even if the person is unconscious and will expire (due to injury / illness, etc.) in short order, if they would view losing their humanity and being forced to live as a "monster" as a worse fate, then you have not helped them. In particular, if this view stems from their religious beliefs, then you've done way more harm than good.

Uniform Two Six wrote:

Sevena wrote: The way I see it Gardeners view on lycanthropy and the benefits of it(healing abilities) would help human kind and it would be difficult not to share such a gift.

Here's what I find disturbing about the idea. Regardless of whether or not you find the idea of lycanthropy to be a blessing, the rather more pertinent question is what the person you are contemplating turning thinks. I just think it's sort of arrogant to assume that being a werewolf is better than being human, and then making that decision for another person without their input. Even if the person is unconscious and will expire (due to injury / illness, etc.) in short order, if they would view losing their humanity and being forced to live as a "monster" as a worse fate, then you have not helped them. In particular, if this view stems from their religious beliefs, then you've done way more harm than good.

they could try to reveal your condition.

lovec1990 wrote: they could try to reveal your condition.

But if they're a werewolf too (because you've just turned them into one), then you've just given them more ammunition to nail you with. What's worse? A "crazy guy" spouting off to anyone who'll listen that werewolves exist, or someone who can shapeshift and prove it (and now bears you one hell of a grudge for turning him into a werewolf when he didn't want to be one)?

Uniform Two Six wrote:

lovec1990 wrote: they could try to reveal your condition.

But if they're a werewolf too (because you've just turned them into one), then you've just given them more ammunition to nail you with. What's worse? A "crazy guy" spouting off to anyone who'll listen that werewolves exist, or someone who can shapeshift and prove it (and now bears you one hell of a grudge for turning him into a werewolf when he didn't want to be one)?

this one

Uniform Two Six wrote:Here's what I find disturbing about the idea. Regardless of whether or not you find the idea of lycanthropy to be a blessing, the rather more pertinent question is what the person you are contemplating turning thinks. I just think it's sort of arrogant to assume that being a werewolf is better than being human, and then making that decision for another person without their input. Even if the person is unconscious and will expire (due to injury / illness, etc.) in short order, if they would view losing their humanity and being forced to live as a "monster" as a worse fate, then you have not helped them. In particular, if this view stems from their religious beliefs, then you've done way more harm than good.

I see your point and can agree with it.Of course infecting random people is never a good idea.Learning how the body copes with shifting,what causes it and the different stages within a shift would change medical science.If thats said correctly Sure it wouldn't be for everybody,if it were actually possible then would it not be possible to tweek it a little and avoid the shift completely.I think that in due time we would be able to manipulate how the body handles the shift.

Lycanthropy...it isn't for everyone.

Uniform Two Six wrote:

Scott Gardener wrote: As a medical wonder alone, lycanthropy could improve the lives of millions. One you spend an afternoon working in an ER, you get the idea that one would have a hard time in good conscience NOT bringing about a lycanthropy epidemic that threatens to render obsolete the unmodified human form.

Um... Does anybody else find that statement just the teensy-weensiest bit disturbing? Are you suggesting infecting people against their will for their own good? Or any sentence or line of thought involving the phrase "Master Race"?

And yet, as uncomfortable as we are discussing such a thing, in context, it's a valid argument. Especially when we are dealing with lycanthropy, a "master race" that others can easily become a part of.

For more on the "master race," see my notes on evolution.

It's also a valid observation. Assuming lycanthropy does entail increased regenerative possibilities (which it would have to in order for werewolves to survive the shifting process), it could be sought after purely for medicinal value, and no matter how great the drawbacks were, a lot of people would consider it a worthwhile sacrifice in exchange for the regeneration.

And no werewolf with a conscience could work in the E.R. and not ever once think that half the people coming into the E.R. wouldn't need the E.R. if they could heal as easily as a werewolf. Just because they're not valid, responsible thoughts, that doesn't mean a werewolf would never have them.

Lost among all this speculation, of course, is the fact that lycanthropy comes with just as many drawbacks as benefits. Regeneration, it would be fair to assume, does not kick in automatically, so you couldn't infect someone "to save their life." Then there's the fact that becoming a werewolf is a pretty brutal, possibly fatal process by itself, something that even healthy, fit adults might not survive. Someone expecting to use lycanthropy to heal them would be even less likely to survive the process. And of course, there's the responsibility of actually being a werewolf. Once it's done, it's done; you're a werewolf for life.

So lycanthropy has its fair share of drawbacks, and it'd be those that would keep most werewolves from actually interpreting those kinds of thoughts as anything more than wishful thinking. But the thing is that, no matter how many drawbacks there were to being a werewolf, or how well they were understood, there would still be people out there who would consider it a worthwhile tradeoff for the regeneration.

And if I'm being honest, I'm one of them.

Sure, lycanthropy is a one-way trip, but so is death. Being told that lycanthropy could kill you isn't going to discourage anyone that already feels like they're dying.

yeah and specialy if WW virus heal cance,hiv,adis,tumors and heal you spinal cord injury.
if i had any of those listed i would probably(all depends on control) accept