THE PACK Message Boards

Akela wrote: He never said they were invincible or anything like that, just that a creature that is smaller would be easier to pin to the ground.
I don't think werewolves should be invincible either, making them grow half a foot isn't going to make them god of war.

Has anyone here ever handled a chimp? I confess I haven't. But they're STRONG buggers. Get in a wrestling contest with a chim and the chimp WILL pin you, smaller or no. Try to fight a chimp and you will come out hurting, if you come out at all.

Smaller doesn't mean they'll be easier to handle. Imagine a chimpanzee with claws and nasty sharp teeth. That is not going to be something you want to take on.

Xodiac wrote:

Figarou wrote:Sure its easy to say "the werewolf would shrink a little."


If the werewolf in Freeborn is 100% CGI, that would be easy to do. But how are you going to make someone wearing a werewolf costume look as if he lost some mass compared to his human form?


Lets say they used "real wolves" as the wolf form. How can you explain the incredible loss of mass and size if the wolves they use are small ones?

Well, as I said in my post... you don't. Nobody will notice some minor shrinkage, which means the filmmakers don't need to bother including it. So long as they don't make the characters perceptably GROW, I have no problem.

We all have our likes and dislikes. That means not everyone will be pleased with the werewolves in Freeborn.

Xodiac wrote:

Akela wrote: He never said they were invincible or anything like that, just that a creature that is smaller would be easier to pin to the ground.
I don't think werewolves should be invincible either, making them grow half a foot isn't going to make them god of war.

Has anyone here ever handled a chimp? I confess I haven't. But they're STRONG buggers. Get in a wrestling contest with a chim and the chimp WILL pin you, smaller or no. Try to fight a chimp and you will come out hurting, if you come out at all.

Smaller doesn't mean they'll be easier to handle. Imagine a chimpanzee with claws and nasty sharp teeth. That is not going to be something you want to take on.

Chimp nothing!!! Try handling a baboon!!

Figarou wrote:Chimp nothing!!! Try handling a baboon!!

Whatever. I think you, at least, got my point.

Figarou wrote:Debates BLEH!!! [Razz]

Do you know how many werewolves are going to be in Freeborn? A big # I can tell you that. Maybe not as many as in Underworld. But a heck of alot more than "Cursed."

Now, is it not ok to have one be a bit muscular? Just one? And another being short? Or one really tall? Why not have different types so we ALL can be happy. [Very Happy]

An excellent point. If there's more than two or three, it really opens up the possibilities. The filmmakers can really show some variety, showing that werewolves are fully as individual in appearance as humans. And that would render this argument (it's moved past debate now) moot. People who like big and muscular werewolves can have some, and those who prefer something more... normal... will get their wishes granted. The only debate left would be what variety the main characters would be.

It's times like this that I really wish Alton and company had more time to chime in. The viewpoints have been voiced. We should probably just leave it for them to read through and make their decisions.

Xodiac wrote:

Figarou wrote:Chimp nothing!!! Try handling a baboon!!

Whatever. I think you, at least, got my point.

Yup!! I did!!

Xodiac wrote:

Figarou wrote:Debates BLEH!!! [Razz]

Do you know how many werewolves are going to be in Freeborn? A big # I can tell you that. Maybe not as many as in Underworld. But a heck of alot more than "Cursed."

Now, is it not ok to have one be a bit muscular? Just one? And another being short? Or one really tall? Why not have different types so we ALL can be happy. [Very Happy]

An excellent point. If there's more than two or three, it really opens up the possibilities. The filmmakers can really show some variety, showing that werewolves are fully as individual in appearance as humans. And that would render this argument (it's moved past debate now) moot. People who like big and muscular werewolves can have some, and those who prefer something more... normal... will get their wishes granted. The only debate left would be what variety the main characters would be.

It's times like this that I really wish Alton and company had more time to chime in. The viewpoints have been voiced. We should probably just leave it for them to read through and make their decisions.

There is going to be alot more than 3 werewolves in Freeborn. Maybe more than a dozen.

There is plenty of room for variety.

Shadow Wulf wrote:Agien mielikkishunt, why do you hate uber wolves. Why do you hate werewolves that are muscular, dont give me that lousy reason where you say that it isnt natural or you dont like it cause its not scientificly possible.

Hey, shadowwulf. . I don't 'hate' them, I don't LIKE them. I have a scientific mind, so the thought of someone pulling double their body mass out of their butt and growing 2 ft just doesn't sit well, and as I have said

SIZE DOES NOT MATTER when it comes to whether a werewolf can disembowel you in a nanosecond.

Half a foot increase in height? Possible. .and something I won't get too upset over, a foot or more? Yes, I would. .just like I don't like the idea of them suddenly doubling their weight.

Weres would come in all shapes and sizes. . I'd be a overweight asthmatic one(ick), my best friend would be a tall, thin, muscular one. . Arnold Schwarzennegger would be Uber muscled. . they should not all be the same, and they should not all be huge and extremely musculed.

YES, Yes, yes, yes, yes...

Show that there can be ALL kinds of werewolves, even spawning off of each other. (Meaning...if a huge, muscular werewolf bit a small, skinny guy, the little guy would not only be a smaller werwolf, but might look significatnly different overall as well...darker and sleeker...pale and ghostlike...etc.)

Having at least one or two "BadAss" Werwolves would sit well with me, with no complaints at all, IF I get to see more shadowy and secritive ones, and somewhat creepy and psychotic ones, and exuberant spiritual ones, and/or a shy, depressed, sickly little punk who just doesn't seem to appreciate the "gift" he was given/ born-with. (...all with the inherent formidability and fearsomeness that comes with being a creature with sharp claws, teeth, carnivorous impulses, and hunters instincts...Naturally...)

...a full, colorful spectrum...showing that the nature of the beast really is in the personality and qualities of the PERSON, rather than being something that just transforms everyone into a biological war machine.

mielikkishunt wrote:

Shadow Wulf wrote:Agien mielikkishunt, why do you hate uber wolves. Why do you hate werewolves that are muscular, dont give me that lousy reason where you say that it isnt natural or you dont like it cause its not scientificly possible.

Hey, shadowwulf. . I don't 'hate' them, I don't LIKE them. I have a scientific mind, so the thought of someone pulling double their body mass out of their butt and growing 2 ft just doesn't sit well,

Like this? --->

mielikkishunt wrote:and as I have said SIZE DOES NOT MATTER when it comes to whether a werewolf can disembowel you in a nanosecond.

What about to another werewolf?



Lets say your at a bar and you're about to pick a fight with a 300 pound wrestling athlete. Will size matter there?

Agh!!!


(drinks water and stretches fingers for a rant)


So what all of you are saying that a skinny wolf is just as dangerous as a muscular wolf? I don't know about that because I, myself have never came across or was attacked by a werewolf and neither was you so I don't know why you all are arguing about each others fantasies! This kind of stuff always end up the same. Everyone walk away mad because they don't see your opinion so you go away with your ball and go play somewhere else! This is stupid immature playground BS and you are suppose to be adults!

Werewolves are fable fantasy creatures, no matter HOW you deny it, and because they are fantasy, they made up by each others minds. No-one COMPELTLY think alike and when people debate about how they think a fantasy creature should be like is freakin' childish in my mind.

You place down what YOU think a werewolf should be like and when someone posts something you don't agree about, then wear a cup and walk away 'cause debating just adds trouble! If this is someone fantasy, don't be a a-hole and dash there dreams just because you want to add "physics" to a FANTASY creature! That is just weak!

This makes me think about a fight I had a coule days ago in another werewolf forum where someone disliked how I drew most by werewolvles(you know, ripping something apart) and she was all like,

(in sqeaky annoying voice)
"Oh, so you think werewolves are mindless killing machine? You are like everyone else and think they are evil! You people always misunderstand wolves and it is YOUR fault they are slowly dying away!"

I was like,

"Look, I love and respect wolves and I don't see werewolves are evil mindless killers. I also don't see them as mild mattered skinny wovles with thumbs that live in the forest and don't harm humans like everone is seeing weres are today (which I think sucks). I, myself happen to like gore and werewolves so it doesn't take a genius to put them together."

And then this girl continue aguing with me and telling me that , "My werewolves are TOO big, they are one color and wolves airn't one color, and they are too mean and how she thinks I'm demonizing werewolves. All I did was say that this is MY opinion on werewovles and if you don't like it then tough! The argument got so heated that I just packed up my stuff and left. I don't want to stay at a place where people can't except someones opinion. That, by the way, wasn't the only reason why I left. I already was thinking about leaving because of a whole list of things.

And this is is why I would like you guys to stop aguing about this. I don't want this to end up in one leaving.

Figarou wrote:

mielikkishunt wrote:

Shadow Wulf wrote:Agien mielikkishunt, why do you hate uber wolves. Why do you hate werewolves that are muscular, dont give me that lousy reason where you say that it isnt natural or you dont like it cause its not scientificly possible.

Hey, shadowwulf. . I don't 'hate' them, I don't LIKE them. I have a scientific mind, so the thought of someone pulling double their body mass out of their butt and growing 2 ft just doesn't sit well,

Like this? --->

mielikkishunt wrote:and as I have said SIZE DOES NOT MATTER when it comes to whether a werewolf can disembowel you in a nanosecond.

What about to another werewolf?



Lets say your at a bar and you're about to pick a fight with a 300 pound wrestling athlete. Will size matter there?

First of all Figarou...Where the hell did you find that WereWolf guy? That's just funny Next I say this: In a real wolf pack, not always the biggest and strongest wolf is the leader and I say this because of the reasearch I've done on that, also it's not always the case. It usuaslly is the bigger stronger wolf that wins. There are also cases were a female was the Alpha wolf and there was no male, but it's rare. I would like to see a dominant female WereWolf in a movie one day, because that would be a different approach and I like different.....but meh, who knows what to expect in future movie or real life....

Umm...Hamster...what are you ranting about?

...your last post confused me.

It sounds to me like you are trying to tell the rest of us to shut up and stop expalining why a different kind of werewolf would be interesting, because YOUR version is the "right" one and the rest of us are just stupid jerks for trying to change it.

You are attacking the rest of us for not supporting your love for Big, Violent WereWoves, (accusing us of "Dashing your dreams"), while simultaniously bashing the rest of us and Invalidating OUR favorite vision of the WereWolf. (One that more closely conforms to the laws of physics and nature)



Could you please try to sum up as simply as possible what it is that you are complaining about?

The better we can understand what the issue is, the better we can all come to a peaceful resolution.

Vuldari wrote:Umm...Hamster...what are you ranting about?

...your last post confused me.

It sounds to me like you are trying to tell the rest of us to shut up and stop expalining why a different kind of werewolf would be interesting, because YOUR version is the "right" one and the rest of us are just stupid jerks for trying to change it.

You are attacking the rest of us for not supporting your love for Big, Violent WereWoves, (accusing us of "Dashing your dreams"), while simultaniously bashing the rest of us and Invalidating OUR favorite vision of the WereWolf. (One that more closely conforms to the laws of physics and nature)



Could you please try to sum up as simply as possible what it is that you are complaining about?

The better we can understand what the issue is, the better we can all come to a peaceful resolution.

What the hell, Vuldari!?!

I thought you of all people would understand. I'm saying that everyone have their own opinion on what a werewolf is and attacking what YOU think is a werewolf is damn well stupid because why the hell are you arguing on how YOU think a werewolf should be. Either buffed or skinny! Whatever you think a werewolf should be is what a werewolf should be! If you think a werewolf look ugly because it has muscles, fine! If Shadowulf thinks a werewolf looks cool with them then fine! What ever floats your boat! Just don't start trouble by aguing about a fantasy creature!

Damn!

Vuldari wrote: You are attacking the rest of us for not supporting your love for Big, Violent WereWoves, (accusing us of "Dashing your dreams"), while simultaniously bashing the rest of us and Invalidating OUR favorite vision of the WereWolf. (One that more closely conforms to the laws of physics and nature)

She isn't doing that at all. She's saying that everyone is entitled to their own opinions. The story was just a case of using an example to prove a point.

There's a big difference between debate and argument, in my mind.

Debate ought to be a reasonable presentation of thoughts and ideas, point and counterpoint, given when the parties involved are willing to at least listen to and consider what the others have to say. Debate is good because, even if they completely disagree in the end, everyone involved will have considered the situation in far greater detail and from different viewpoints than they would have on their own.

Ultimately, either their original viewpoint will be strengthened or they will adopt a better viewpoint -- not because the other person thought it was better, but because they see it as better themselves. In either case, they have gained something of value to them.

Argument, on the other hand, is when one or more of the parties doesn't want to hear what the others have to say. If the others persist, they will feel as if they are being attacked, nagged at, or that the others are trying to force their opinions on them. If someone doesn't want to listen, it doesn't matter how reasonable your argument is -- they won't even glance at it, except to find flaws. They'll get angry if you try to push it. You'll get angry because you think they're being unreasonable. And things get even worse if both sides are doing this.

Argument can cause a lot of damage to relationships. People get stubborn when they think they are being attacked. They close their minds and stop listening. In the long run, their viewpoints (no matter how flawed) become static undying truth to them. Any time someone touches on the subject, they withdraw and become unreasonable and angry. Argument does not benefit anyone involved.

To put it simply, debate is Intelligent (benefits both), while argument is Stupid (detriments both).

The best thing to do when someone shows signs of not being open to listening is for both sides to just back down. No matter how strongly you believe you're right and they would be better off if only they listened to you... you lose your chance forever if you pursue it now. Wait until they're a little bit more open.

Now, here's the bit of difficulty I see in this particular situation:

This is an asynchronous form of communication -- it's not real-time. Furthermore, it acts as both a way to have a one-to-one conversation and a way to broadcast (one-to-many) at the exact same time. Ultimately, it's really many-to-many, but it can be used for the previous functions as well, which is where the complexity arises.

When having a one-to-one conversation, it's easy to just end it when you see that nothing productive is being accomplished. However, since this is also a broadcast, we have the audience to consider. Two people who disagree might not be willing to back down because they want to make sure the audience can see things their way. Hence, disagreements in this forum can turn away from direct communication to parallel communication, in which each party is shouting for all to hear, but they aren't really talking to eachother.

This is bad, because it really is an argument in the end. Neither one is interested in hearing what the other has to say; rather, they are only interested in making sure people can see how reasonable they are and how unreasonable the other is being.

Not a good thing.

Another thing that can happen in a forum like this, and I think this is the issue here, is that one person wishes to stop discussing the subject, but several others still wish to talk about it amongst themselves. Even if they do so in a reasonable manner, there is still the problem that the first person can still hear everything they say. If he has a personal stake in the issue, he may still feel attacked, even if the others aren't doing so intentionally. Because of this, he will likely react in a way that the others feel is more extreme than is warranted by the situation.

And that is what leads to our current situation.



So, although I've been trying to cut down on giving advice (because it seems like a very stupid thing for me to do, even though I have made a bad habit of it), I would suggest the following:

Drop it for now.

Those who are angry: cool down, and try not to be overly sensitive. Eventually see if you can't work your way back up to a point where you would be willing to discuss it reasonably. Just don't fall into the "I'm right and I don't care what anyone else says" trap.

Those who want to make sure everyone sees things their way: shove it. No one cares. They'll think better of you if you just stop now.

Those who just want to discuss it reasonably: save it. You can talk about it later. It's not worth it right now.



Whatever the case, let's not make this any more of an angry situation. Make peace for now, and don't hold grudges.

-- Vilkacis

*wipes hands*

That's fine with me.

Hamster wrote:

Vuldari wrote:Umm...Hamster...what are you ranting about?

...your last post confused me.

It sounds to me like you are trying to tell the rest of us to shut up and stop expalining why a different kind of werewolf would be interesting, because YOUR version is the "right" one and the rest of us are just stupid jerks for trying to change it.

You are attacking the rest of us for not supporting your love for Big, Violent WereWoves, (accusing us of "Dashing your dreams"), while simultaniously bashing the rest of us and Invalidating OUR favorite vision of the WereWolf. (One that more closely conforms to the laws of physics and nature)



Could you please try to sum up as simply as possible what it is that you are complaining about?

The better we can understand what the issue is, the better we can all come to a peaceful resolution.

What the hell, Vuldari!?!

I thought you of all people would understand. I'm saying that everyone have their own opinion on what a werewolf is and attacking what YOU think is a werewolf is damn well stupid because why the hell are you arguing on how YOU think a werewolf should be. Either buffed or skinny! Whatever you think a werewolf should be is what a werewolf should be! If you think a werewolf look ugly because it has muscles, fine! If Shadowulf thinks a werewolf looks cool with them then fine! What ever floats your boat! Just don't start trouble by aguing about a fantasy creature!

Damn!

lupin wrote: She isn't doing that at all. She's saying that everyone is entitled to their own opinions. The story was just a case of using an example to prove a point.

I have been supporting the idea that everyone should be able to share and enjoy their own interpretations of what a werewolf is from the very beginning.

...that is why I was confused by Hamsters angry rant...

Who has been fighting against the right to have multiple versions of werwolves? If no one has, then who have you been yelling at?


If I ever provide a counter-point to someones opinion about something, it is not because I beleive that their opinion is WRONG, or am denying them the right to disagree with me. I only counter-point when the point is implied as a suggestion of how that matter should be handled in the upcomming film.

If you simply say "I like Big, Muscular Werewolves", then that is a statement of opinion, and there is nothing about it for me to argue about.

However, when I beleive that the statement is being made as a suggestion of how "Freeborn" should be made, then I have every right to state my reasons why I disagree about that being the best course to follow. When someone makes a statement summing up to "everyone wants to see it this way", but I Don't want to see it that way, I'm going to say so.

...and since people in this topic have been saying things like "I don't want to see any Werewolf movie with werewolves shorter than 7-feet", I have reasonable suspicion to believe that we are speaking our opinions of how we would like to see this, or other, Werewolf movie(s) made.

Therefore...I think I have a right to comment about a suggestion and say "if it was done that way, I personally think I would like it Less/More."

http://www.calypso-blue.com/werewolf/vi ... 3099#43099

WELL PUT Vilkacis.

That was incredibly insightful.

I'm not angry at all exept for being flustered about having angry messages dirrected towards me.

...but perhaps it would be best for me to stay out of this conversation for a while anyway. ...at least untill we all (Including Myself) are thinking more rationally, and gain our patience back.

If I have said anything insulting or out-of-line, I am truely sorry.


Let's all stay freinds. I like it better that way.

I think we struck a nerve for Vuldari at that moment but anyway, This what I was trying to stop a while back, but noooo Vuladari wanted to keep going. I lie muscular werewolfs, but I still like skinny ones, I draw them like that sometimes. Its like ice cream, we all prefer different flavors(personaly I like strawberry ).

Wait!!! Vuldari!!! you thought we were only reffering to the werewolf in Freeborn the movie!?! Nooo!! I was reffering to werewolfs overall.

Shadow Wulf wrote:This what I was trying to stop a while back, but noooo Vuladari wanted to keep going.

*pokes Shadow Wulf*

(That's exactly the kind of "I'm right. You're wrong" attitude I would like to avoid, please.)

-- Vilkacis

*looks behind him*
Oh....whoops

I like Vanilla...'s my favoritest'est of all.

...but if the only flavor of Ice Cream I ever ate was Vanilla, it liekly would not be long before I never wanted to have icecream again.

Since that's not the case though...I think I'm going to make myself a Mint-ChocolateChip Sunday with crumbled Oreos and Hersheys syrup.

...Mmmmmmm....Iiiiiiiccceee Crrrrrreeeeeaaaaammmmm.......

Vuldari wrote:I like Vanilla...'s my favoritest'est of all.

...but if the only flavor of Ice Cream I ever ate was Vanilla, it liekly would not be long before I never wanted to have icecream again.

Since that's not the case though...I think I'm going to make myself a Mint-ChocolateChip Sunday with crumbled Oreos and Hersheys syrup.

...Mmmmmmm....Iiiiiiiccceee Crrrrrreeeeeaaaaammmmm.......

Thats not fair!! How dare you eat ice cream in front of me!!


Me and my lactose intolerance

Figarou wrote: Me and my lactose intolerance

Hahaha, Figaoru!! your lactose Man you have no idea what your missing, there strawberry and chocalyte cheese cake, theres ice cream, theres sundaes, there cereal.

Shadow Wulf wrote:

Figarou wrote: Me and my lactose intolerance

Hahaha, Figaoru!! your lactose Man you have no idea what your missing, there strawberry and chocalyte cheese cake, theres ice cream, theres sundaes, there cereal.

Not when there is this stuff!!

http://www.silkissoy.com/index.php?sid=Home

Mmmmm soymilk!!

Figarou wrote:Thats not fair!! How dare you eat ice cream in front of me!!


Me and my lactose intolerance

All the ice cream I have is melted and re-frozen. So I am eating a cookie instead.