Oh, and multiple eye-toys shouldn't cause issues with multiple people.
However, distence finder braclets would very much help such a contraption not only keep track of where players are, but seperate players from non-players.
Nintendo Revolution Controller.
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WolvenOne
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Mock Revolution controller review
Okay, I don't actually have the controller here, so I cannot comment about how it feels for gameplay. What I do have however is.... A remote.... however it's not just any remote, it's a basic Dish Network remote, which, is actually quite similer to shape to the Revolution controller. So I can comment on how it should feel when being positioned for gaming.
Strikingly enough, as long as your shoulder is even to the television set and you keep your arm slightly bent, holding it out straight towards the television set isn't that hard on the wrist, and I actually suspect the final controller will feel even less uncomfortable due to it getting thicker at the base, rather then tapering off like this gizmo does.
Having a food tray or a good arm-rest also does wonders, your arm does start tiring pretty quickly after waving it around but if you rest frequently it's not really a problem.
Keeping this remote absolutly perfect level, unfortunetly, is somewhat of a feat. The actual controller may work better for this but I doubt it'll be that different. Thankfully I doubt keeping it perfectly level will affect gameplay that much.
The problem lies with the fact that your hand itself really isn't designed to hold things perfectly level you to ground, so the most natural feeling way to do that is to compensate with your arm. However this forces your arm off the rest and as I mentioned earlier, it starts tiring out pretty quickly.
Other then that, ergonomically speaking this is, acceptable. It's not perfectly comfortable and it might not be good for marathon gaming sessions. However for the more casual gamer it'll likely feel perfectly natural.
Strikingly enough, as long as your shoulder is even to the television set and you keep your arm slightly bent, holding it out straight towards the television set isn't that hard on the wrist, and I actually suspect the final controller will feel even less uncomfortable due to it getting thicker at the base, rather then tapering off like this gizmo does.
Having a food tray or a good arm-rest also does wonders, your arm does start tiring pretty quickly after waving it around but if you rest frequently it's not really a problem.
Keeping this remote absolutly perfect level, unfortunetly, is somewhat of a feat. The actual controller may work better for this but I doubt it'll be that different. Thankfully I doubt keeping it perfectly level will affect gameplay that much.
The problem lies with the fact that your hand itself really isn't designed to hold things perfectly level you to ground, so the most natural feeling way to do that is to compensate with your arm. However this forces your arm off the rest and as I mentioned earlier, it starts tiring out pretty quickly.
Other then that, ergonomically speaking this is, acceptable. It's not perfectly comfortable and it might not be good for marathon gaming sessions. However for the more casual gamer it'll likely feel perfectly natural.
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Vuldari
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You're right...the system you suggested (as well as the similar one applied to the MP demo) does sound refreshingly intuitive and natural.WolvenOne wrote:Okay, yes, this system is sticking to the duel system, however the Spacial Mouse is so much more intuitive for this situation that it should be a lot easier.
Anyhow, I don't think you'll get games that arn't using two analogs. Even the Metroid Prime ported to the Revolution supposedly ran with a duel-controll mode. The controller demo commercial also seems to suggest that duel-controllers will be the norm for FPS games.
Though those that played it have said that it actually feels extremly natural and seamless compared to earlier gameplay interfaces they've used.
Oh, and I will agree that duel-analog feels, kinda funny to me. However this interface sounds comparitivly simple.
...honestly, about half way through that last post, I almost forgot that I was supposed to be talking about the revolution controller. I just got lost on a rant that I've been on for years now relating to how NO console FPS game I have played since Perfect Dark has had a controll scheme that I actually liked. ...even with the customisation options, I can never find a set-up that feels as natural and fluid to me as the old GoldenEye controlls.
...I just really hate trying to Snipe with my right thumb...I can't do it...but all the new games force me to try anyway...which frustrates me to no end...so I started ranting again...
Sorry...
Programs that can read an image of a human being and actually understand what they are seeing (see your hand and know that it is a hand and not your foot or a cup on the table behind you) are very complex to make, and currently are still not very accurate.WolvenOne wrote:Oh, and multiple eye-toys shouldn't cause issues with multiple people.
However, distence finder braclets would very much help such a contraption not only keep track of where players are, but seperate players from non-players.
The software running behind the current Eye-toy is actually very dumb in this respect, and so is frustratingly inconsistant in many of the games that use it. It does not know your arm from a broomstick, nor can it distinguish between you and the person standing next to you.
What you are suggesting with the "Sterio Vision" eye toys to register depth perception is entirely possible...but the technology at the consumer level is not quite there yet. It is not as easy as you make it sound.
I could definately see Sony investing a good sum of money to "bring" the tech to that level so they could release an ADVANCED "Sterio" Eye-Toy for the PS3, perhaps a year or three after launch...which would rock. ...but I think it is far more likely that they will rush out a simpler, more refined version of the current Eye-Toy for their new console in the very near future instead... (a single camera one)
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WolvenOne
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Oh, Sony is going to have a single camera eye-toy shortly after launch. Though I have seen it in action and it is pretty darn impressive. They must have some newer software running it because even with one SD-resolution camera is picked up depth pretty darn well. It's not quite on the same par with the Revolution controller nor is it standard but it's certainly a big leap from EyeToy1.0
Yeah, like I said, console FPS don't typically feel right to me. Similerly, sniping with thumbs is kinda difficult, especially since the curser re-centers to moment you relax your thumb at all.
I'm not even that big of a fan of First Person Shooters, but with this controller and with that set-up, it sounds like they'd be really fun. Though, as always, RPG's are still king with me, and I cannot see them changing that much with this controller.
Well, there is one change that could happen for RPG's. Rather then manually walking upto A bookshelf and pressing A to read 1 book or whatnot off the shelf, you could press A, go into curser mode, select a very specific item and the player could walk upto it automatically and investigate it.
That, would be an interesting touch to an otherwise dull aspect of console RPG's. However other then that I don't see em changing much. Though it will be nice to play em with one hand. ;)
Yeah, like I said, console FPS don't typically feel right to me. Similerly, sniping with thumbs is kinda difficult, especially since the curser re-centers to moment you relax your thumb at all.
I'm not even that big of a fan of First Person Shooters, but with this controller and with that set-up, it sounds like they'd be really fun. Though, as always, RPG's are still king with me, and I cannot see them changing that much with this controller.
Well, there is one change that could happen for RPG's. Rather then manually walking upto A bookshelf and pressing A to read 1 book or whatnot off the shelf, you could press A, go into curser mode, select a very specific item and the player could walk upto it automatically and investigate it.
That, would be an interesting touch to an otherwise dull aspect of console RPG's. However other then that I don't see em changing much. Though it will be nice to play em with one hand. ;)
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Vuldari
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Yeah...FPS games are not My favorite genre either. RPG's rock. Adventure games and Racing games are actually my personal cup(s) of tea.
...I read in an article somewhere in which someone suggested that, in an RPG (like TES), it would be possible to actually flip the pages in a book, rather than just scroll through it.
...this got me thinking about somthing. There really would not be any advantage to doing it that way. It would actually make reading books a very difficult and aquard experience. So why did he suggest it? ...or why have I, for that matter, been suggesting absurdly complicated ways to do things with the Revolution controller, when they could just as easily be accomplished with the push of a single button?
The answer:
...because it would be FUN!
Example:
Take a simple room in a game. Put tables, chairs, books and boodshelves, dishes, silverware, tablecloths, etc. in the room. (All Extremely detailed).
*Now...wander through this room in a traditional game engine.
The room manages to maintain your interest for a few minutes as you wander around and admire the beauty of the graphics and the detail of the objects in the room, with dynamic lighting and shadow applied, but you quickly get bored and move on to find something more interesting to do.
*Now add physics to the objects in the room.
Now if you run into the bookshelf, some books fall on to the floor. If you jump onto the table and walk around, you knock the glassware off and it rattles and crashes to the floor. Now the room is no longer just a bit of scenery, but a toy...which keeps you quite amused for a good while as you run about in it, knocking everything over untill nothing is left unbroken. You leave the room with a grin on your face.
*Now add to the mix the ability to actually reach out to, grab and interact with every item and object in that same room.
No longer is the room just a big breakable thing, but now is a whole Box FULL of toys. You turn the wine glass over and over in your virtual hands on the screen...holding it up to the light and looking through it...tossing it up into the air and trying to catch it again before it hit's the ground and breaks. Next you pick up a book off the shelf. Experimentlingly, you toss it across the room and it opens in mid-air, pages fluttering noisily. It lands open, face-down. You walk over and grab a corner of it and lift it up, then fumble to try to make it fall face up. After a few trys, you succeed. There is writing on the pages. You grab the corner of a page and drag it sideways to turn it. It turns easily. Then you grab the corner of the next page, but instead of dragging it sideways, you drag it up, to lift the book. The page is not strong enoug to hold the weight of the book an rips off in your hand, letting the book drop with a *thud*. You crumple up the page in your hand and toss it at the table in a wad, where it knocks the candle-stick over and catches fire. You run over to the table and grab hold of the corner of the flaming tablecloth, then run backwards, still holdin on. You rip the tablecloth off the table and all of the plates and dishes go flying in all dirrections. Finally, you grab the top of the bookshelf and pull it down so it falls on top of the flaming tablecloth where you dropped it, then run out of the room laughing as the whole room begins to fill with smoke.
(Note: I doubt the revoluton system will be capable of all that, but even a taste of this kind of interacton would be a blast)
My point is...the more ways you are given to interact with the game environment, the more there will be to do, and the more FUN you will be able to have, either working towards the goal of the level, or just goofing off in an insignificant corner of the game.
I remember the first time I played Super Mario 64. I was so thrilled by the ability to move Mario in 3 dimensions, that I did nothing but run around and around and around in circles, doing jumps, backflips, and trying to jump AT the camera for a good while...and I had a blast doing it. Screw entering the castle on progressing through the game...I was having too much fun just Making Mario JUMP.
I recall a similar experience watching my brother play through the beginning of Half-Life 2 the first time, and observing his delight in realising that he was able to pick up the TV and toss is out the window, and thwack soldiers on the head with bricks and boots and Baby Dolls, and knock over barrels so he could roll them around and down stairways. *clunk, clunk, clunk* (*loads gun and fires at barrel) *bang....BOOOM!!!*
I look forward to someday being able to interact with the game environment to an even further extent...where I can not only grab and push items, but actually walk up to a steel drum in the game and start beating on it to play a song I just made up...then pick up a feather pen, stick it in someones hat and call him "Macaroni...!".
...because, in any game, it is allways more fun to do what you are NOT supposed to do, than what you are. (...like crashing the ambulance into oncomming traffic and then running away from the flaming wreckage before it explodes in GTA)
...it's fun to be pointless...
...I read in an article somewhere in which someone suggested that, in an RPG (like TES), it would be possible to actually flip the pages in a book, rather than just scroll through it.
...this got me thinking about somthing. There really would not be any advantage to doing it that way. It would actually make reading books a very difficult and aquard experience. So why did he suggest it? ...or why have I, for that matter, been suggesting absurdly complicated ways to do things with the Revolution controller, when they could just as easily be accomplished with the push of a single button?
The answer:
...because it would be FUN!
Example:
Take a simple room in a game. Put tables, chairs, books and boodshelves, dishes, silverware, tablecloths, etc. in the room. (All Extremely detailed).
*Now...wander through this room in a traditional game engine.
The room manages to maintain your interest for a few minutes as you wander around and admire the beauty of the graphics and the detail of the objects in the room, with dynamic lighting and shadow applied, but you quickly get bored and move on to find something more interesting to do.
*Now add physics to the objects in the room.
Now if you run into the bookshelf, some books fall on to the floor. If you jump onto the table and walk around, you knock the glassware off and it rattles and crashes to the floor. Now the room is no longer just a bit of scenery, but a toy...which keeps you quite amused for a good while as you run about in it, knocking everything over untill nothing is left unbroken. You leave the room with a grin on your face.
*Now add to the mix the ability to actually reach out to, grab and interact with every item and object in that same room.
No longer is the room just a big breakable thing, but now is a whole Box FULL of toys. You turn the wine glass over and over in your virtual hands on the screen...holding it up to the light and looking through it...tossing it up into the air and trying to catch it again before it hit's the ground and breaks. Next you pick up a book off the shelf. Experimentlingly, you toss it across the room and it opens in mid-air, pages fluttering noisily. It lands open, face-down. You walk over and grab a corner of it and lift it up, then fumble to try to make it fall face up. After a few trys, you succeed. There is writing on the pages. You grab the corner of a page and drag it sideways to turn it. It turns easily. Then you grab the corner of the next page, but instead of dragging it sideways, you drag it up, to lift the book. The page is not strong enoug to hold the weight of the book an rips off in your hand, letting the book drop with a *thud*. You crumple up the page in your hand and toss it at the table in a wad, where it knocks the candle-stick over and catches fire. You run over to the table and grab hold of the corner of the flaming tablecloth, then run backwards, still holdin on. You rip the tablecloth off the table and all of the plates and dishes go flying in all dirrections. Finally, you grab the top of the bookshelf and pull it down so it falls on top of the flaming tablecloth where you dropped it, then run out of the room laughing as the whole room begins to fill with smoke.
(Note: I doubt the revoluton system will be capable of all that, but even a taste of this kind of interacton would be a blast)
My point is...the more ways you are given to interact with the game environment, the more there will be to do, and the more FUN you will be able to have, either working towards the goal of the level, or just goofing off in an insignificant corner of the game.
I remember the first time I played Super Mario 64. I was so thrilled by the ability to move Mario in 3 dimensions, that I did nothing but run around and around and around in circles, doing jumps, backflips, and trying to jump AT the camera for a good while...and I had a blast doing it. Screw entering the castle on progressing through the game...I was having too much fun just Making Mario JUMP.
I recall a similar experience watching my brother play through the beginning of Half-Life 2 the first time, and observing his delight in realising that he was able to pick up the TV and toss is out the window, and thwack soldiers on the head with bricks and boots and Baby Dolls, and knock over barrels so he could roll them around and down stairways. *clunk, clunk, clunk* (*loads gun and fires at barrel) *bang....BOOOM!!!*
I look forward to someday being able to interact with the game environment to an even further extent...where I can not only grab and push items, but actually walk up to a steel drum in the game and start beating on it to play a song I just made up...then pick up a feather pen, stick it in someones hat and call him "Macaroni...!".
...because, in any game, it is allways more fun to do what you are NOT supposed to do, than what you are. (...like crashing the ambulance into oncomming traffic and then running away from the flaming wreckage before it explodes in GTA)
...it's fun to be pointless...
Please Forgive the Occasional Outburst of my Inner Sage ... for he is Oblivious to Sarcasm, and not Easily Silenced.
=^.^'= ~
=^.^'= ~
this would actually work! however, the anolog stick on the side would have to be used for strafing as well. as for looking around, you could point the controller off screen in the direction you wanted to turn, the farther you point the controller, the faster you look. and as vuldari pointed out, you could swing/thrust the controller to melee attack.Vilkacis wrote:
-- Vilkacis
i say you revise that a bit, copy-right your idea, and sell it to nintendo. can you say "show me the money"?
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Shadow Wulf
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heres a demonstration of the nintendo revolution controler. 
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WolvenOne
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Sony owns Patent for Revolution Style Controller
Well, it seems that back in December of 2004, Sony patented an type of device that bares an EXTREMLY strong resemblence to the Nintendo Revolution Controller.
The controller, reffered to as the gaming Wand, would emit a laser beam made up of a very very specific bandwidth of light, that was then read by an EyeToy like device and fed into the console.
This is a somewhat different approach then Nintendo's controller, however it theoretically would work about as well. Though there would be some limitations in comparison to Nintendo's design.
Anyhow, this doesn't necceserilly mean that Sony will use this design, but since they've already experimented with it, they probably could impliment it at short notice if they wanted to.
The controller, reffered to as the gaming Wand, would emit a laser beam made up of a very very specific bandwidth of light, that was then read by an EyeToy like device and fed into the console.
This is a somewhat different approach then Nintendo's controller, however it theoretically would work about as well. Though there would be some limitations in comparison to Nintendo's design.
Anyhow, this doesn't necceserilly mean that Sony will use this design, but since they've already experimented with it, they probably could impliment it at short notice if they wanted to.
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