Werewolves in reality

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Werewolves in reality

Post by white »

No, this isn't "Do you think they exist" poll #982347052394875; what I'm thinking about is, I believe, slightly more interesting.

What if some branch of technology allowed someone to actually become a werewolf, or something very similar? What if that became possible within our lifetimes? I imagine that transformation ability would have to be dropped, unless there's some huge leap in nanotech or something of the sort coming up; moving things around that rapidly would both take a ton of energy, and probably be quite dangerous to your health. What I have in mind is something a bit more within reach; basically, the gestalt form (my ideal would be optimized for four-legged movement with ability to balance on two, and forepaws/hands capable of manipulation, but I suppose the extent would be a personal choice). Relatively recently, it has been discovered that the system which allows many reptiles to regenerate is present, though dormant, in most/all mammals, including humans. While that's pretty cool in itself, we evolved to not have it for a reason; namely, regenerating instead of scarring over leaves you much more open to infection; reptiles tend to have VERY powerful immune systems for that reason. My idea is as follows: What if we gave that regenrative system, in a controlled environment, a different 'schematic' to work off of? What if you re-enabled it in a human (has been sucessfully done with mice), and injected a retrovirus that would go around modifying things until your body decided that its current form was wrong, and it actually should be that of a werewolf in gestalt? Given some assistance from the primitive nanotech we're likely to have by that time, and some delicate surgery, could a permenant transformation be executed? Perhaps more importantly, if such technology became available, would you take advantage of it? How do you think society would react to the sudden appearance of such radically different people? Would you even technically be human, given that your physical form is certainly not? Is humanity of the physical, or the mental (Physical, I'd say, but that's just me. I LIKE the idea of being considered inhuman, so long as people recognize I'm no ravening monster)? Discuss.
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Post by Miguel »

That would be really cool,definately.I would try somthing like it but until that day...i'm happy the way I am.
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Post by white »

As my sig makes clear, and I suppose this entire topic indicates, I'm not particularily; I can get along, but I feel like I'd be much happier with such a form. I'm not about to go off on some rant about being born in the wrong body, or spiritual associations, or something; I just would really, really, love to have an improved body like that.

An extension to the first post: Perhaps the most challenging aspect of coming to this technological level will not be figuring out how the actual system will work, but learning enough about DNA and genetics in general to know exactly what to change.
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Post by Miguel »

That would be really cool. To think about it,I mean walking into the streets that way would be cool.
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Post by white »

Hehe. *imagines crowds running away, screaming in fear*

The potential for screwing with people's minds alone is endless :D
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Post by Short Tail »

so basicaly you want this http://home.telepath.com/~wanderer/imagine_furnetics/ *sigh* too bad it's not real
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Post by Scott Gardener »

The neccessary nanotechnology to pull it off is hard to see in my lifetime, but then again, ask during the Great Depression someone born in 1910 what they would think about a moon landing around their 59th birthday and they'd think I were getting pretty far-fetched.

I agree that shapeshifting would overtax foreseeable technology around 2050, but I could strain my sense of plausibility and consider that as an old man, I could be offered the chance to spend the last part of my days as an anthro wolf. Heh, I remember back when the Internet was new, there were these people called "furries..."

Anyhow, before anthro forms become possible, I first expect nanotech biomedicine to have first already dealt with other things that society in general would consider more pressing, like curing cancer and postponing aging. Maybe they'd even cure aging and make us all immortal.

Which brings up the next point. There'd also be society coming to terms with its capabilities and getting past the ethical ramifications. We have no problem with turning people into werewolves, but we have to keep in mind that that's not most peoples' life ambitions. Most would be terrified of the prospect. That alone could push the day of making it possble back past our 100th or 120th birthdays, technology notwithstanding.

Still, one could suggest breakthroughs that are hard to fathom today. Say, around 2015, an artificial intelligence is developed, that in less than five years time figures out all the technology needed to pull it off, and in another five manages to make it cheap enough for everybody. Then, it's simply a matter of finding the first place in the world that gets over the ethics and lets you do it.

Sure. I'd at the age of 50 or so fly to Japan and get made an anthro wolf.

I'd probably use other technology developed along the way, fixing things like my risk factors for heart disease--which could otherwise be a big issue for me in my 50s. Heck, I'd be happy to turn back the biological clock and be like I was around the time I was, say, back in 2005, answering a post on an early 2D Internet BBS about whether or not I'd become an anthro wolf.

But, as an anthro wolf, I'd have a few other things to face. The technology would exist and people would know about it, but I'd still likely be on the leading edge of social tolerance. I'd get a lot of heads turned. As a physician, I'd have a hard time with my bed side manner, especially with the kids. ("On the bright side, I'm not having a hard time getting him to open and say 'ahh'.") I'd probably have to find another line of work. Something besides public speaking, too.

"Han, algh elhachthed, Agh hramigh thoo thagharth gah herianhoghigh thammunighy..."

[translation from lycanthropese: "And if elected, I promise to support the therianthropic community..."]

But, it would be worth it. Hey, I could learn sign language, or carry around a computer speaker. Handwriting recognition and advancements in PDAs or whatever replaces them would no doubt be pretty sophisticated if A.I.s came about.

[voice like "Microsoft Bob"] "I am here to service my broken voice translator program."

Deer anthropomorph techie with same device: "What you say?"

Cat anthropomorph with same device: "You have no chance to survive make your time."
Taking a Gestalt approach, since it's the "in" thing...
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Post by Fenrir »

They won't make nanobots or at least for comercial use, it would lead to plausible imortality and that would start ethical debates and what not. So if you can turn someone into a "Furry" as you called them :wink: Then what's to keep wanted people from just becoming another face in the crowed or make themselves eternily young it's just not ethical we would have to either stop reproducing, or start colonizing other planets. Sorry if it's off topic.
"Nam Sibyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla pendere et cul illi pueri dicerent 'Sibylla Ti cupisne' respondebat illa 'Cupio mortere'."

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Post by Shadow Wulf »

OMG YOU USED THE WORD NANO :cafinated:
Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories. - Thomas Jefferson
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Post by Short Tail »

down boy
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Post by Fenrir »

Shadow Wulf wrote:OMG YOU USED THE WORD NANO :cafinated:
um....so?
What are you allergic? :P :?
"Nam Sibyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla pendere et cul illi pueri dicerent 'Sibylla Ti cupisne' respondebat illa 'Cupio mortere'."

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Post by white »

:edit: Wow, I just realized how much I wrote. I think you can tell how much this concept excites me. Have fun reading all that :wink:


I'm under the impression that slowing, if not halting and possibly even reversing, aging is something coming relatively soon, and certainly is a precursor to the transformation technology I'm imagining. I think worrying about the morales for the aging thing, at least, is relatively irrelevant; you know all those rich influential people who always get their way, even in democracies? You know how many of them want to live forever, even if they don't really understand what that means? There we have it. Ethics shall be tossed aside as they so often are, but, for once, it will be for a GOOD reason. The overpopulation problem will PROBABLY cease to be a problem reasonably soon, too; at the very least, we're not too far from self-sufficient orbiting space stations, and we can put up effectively as many of those as we want. By the time we start running out of space there, we'll be able to terraform, or at the very least send some to circle around mars or something. The speech thing would, admittedly, be a problem; Yer not a werewolf if ye don't have a proper muzzle, and things like that tend to get in the way of speech. However, I think that given much practice, and perhaps some minor changes to the facial muscles, something interpretable by most people would be possible. Perhaps more advanced engineering could create something along the lines of a mocking bird's sound-creation apparatus, able to create most anything given practice. Again, learning to modify the genes and such properly, and actually DESIGNING the thing, would be quite hard, but well within the range of possibility.

Let us continue. I believe that society would have quite a hard time coping with custom-bodied people, particularily those whom so closely match a classic fear. However, myself, I look upon that as an entertaining challenge to surmount, and, personally, I'd be willing to put up with any amount of discrimination for that. If worst comes to worst I could go live off the land somewhere; being able to happily digest raw meat, and being equipped for proper hunting, would make life much easier, and possibly more enjoyable. Yup, give me a sattelite 'net connection and a cabin in the woods, and I'm happy.

I believe that at the very least, we'll have the technology to slow or halt aging available to those who can pay within our lifetimes; given the achievement of that, all that's left is waiting, and a few more issues:

(note: these are hypothetical, I"m not quoting anyone)
"Who in their right minds would start a corporation, company, service, or whatever to transform people?!"

Why, one of us, of course! Nothing so encouraging to a potential customer as a demonstration that the owner of the company has undergone the same procedures and is currently living happily in a cabin somewhere, remotely administrating things and living off of uncooked, self-caught deer.

"What government in its right mind would allow technology that allows people to change their appearance at all?"

Interesting question, that. Think about it. Any government would LOVE to be able to make spies with perfect disguises; this gives us heavy governmental funding for the basic technology once it's been proven possible; from there, it should be a relatively simple matter to extend things to the stage of lycanthropy. Even if it's developed in secret, it would quickly find a way out; think altruistic scientists, competing governments, the frantic bids of politicians for popularity and money. If one government doesn't release the technology publicly, another certainly will, if only to ensure another term in office, and again, once this is done, we're practically home free.

</q-and-a>

Miscellaneous thoughts:
Wouldn't we all love to, say, "grin" widely and with a friendly growl when someone tries to discriminate against the "monster"? My form of choice, at least, would also (when standing bipedal) be tall enough to prove quite imposing, even without the nice sharp array of teeth and claws. Add in some noises that trigger a few primal fears, and we can wave goodbye to at the very least in-your-face style of discrimination. There won't be no KKK if you can bite the mob's limbs off :)

All in all, I must say I expect to see this in my lifetime. I certainly hope there's no afterlife 'cause I don't plan on dying :)
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Post by Anubis »

i would do it i would love to go to some place or what ever and get made into a werewolf. but there probliy be alot of things can go wrong after so many changes to my body. and not to mention when i try to have a baby with a still human wife my genes would change so much no baby no healthy baby that would live an hour after birth.
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Post by Lupin »

Fenrir wrote:
Shadow Wulf wrote:OMG YOU USED THE WORD NANO :cafinated:
um....so?
Well, everyone knows that vi is better.
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Post by Vilkacis »

Lupin wrote:Well, everyone knows that vi is better.
Definitely.
:wink:

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Post by white »

Bah. Can we try to keep THAT flamewar out of it? :wink:

@Anubis: Well... some sacrafices must be made. Besides, I can't imagine many women would be attracted to a werewolf while not wanting to become one themselves.

A couple'a things to say, for the sake of adding believeability to my arguments (and giving all of us a tad more hope):

First, when I'm talking about the regenration research, I'm quite serious. A mouse was accidentally bred capable of regenerating ANYTHING (they noticed when the ear identification cuts kept disapearing without a scar), barring the brain (of course), given time and nutrients. I kinda feel sorry for the poor thing; having bits chopped off all over the place, and needing to spend its precious energy rebuilding them. This includes things like limbs; tail was cut off, and regrew fully operational. They even went so far as to freeze off a bit of the thing's heart, and it regrew it. Don't ask me how they kept it alive in the meantime. Anyway, here's a few links to change me from a ranting idealistic druggy to the voice of hope:

Regenerating Mice
The website of the researcher responsible
A slashdot story with lots of interesting replies on the topic

Second is much simpler: look at technology growth over the years. It's exponential. Computers, for example, typically double in power every 18 months. Check that, you'll find it true. This sort of thing applies to the whole tech industry to varying degrees. For more proof, go back 30 years, and look at the tech compared to now. Go back 30 years from then and look at the tech compared to your first stop, and now. You'll soon understand what I'm saying. We're riding a veritable explosion of innovation, even if most people fail to notice that it's going on right now. Think back to the dark ages, or really any time before 1900; tech growth was almost immeasurably slow. Now we have things like the PS3 coming out that can simulate fluids in realtime, and that's only 100 years. Graph the average life expectancy in relation to time, and I think you'll see that we should live to see the tech we dream of, and take advantage of it. Live to live, you might say.

@Fenrir specifically: As I've already discussed, the implications are simply too tempting for the people with power to ignore or prevent, and the people in power tend to be the people with money to invest, and the ability to have at the very least agents who be disguised flawlessly even on the level of DNA testing is far too attractive to be left by the wayside. Add to that things like military research interests (Yes, I know it sounds like cheap scifi, but think about it. ANY military would absolutely LOVE to get their hands on some werewolf soldiers, and if the possibility was shown to them, would leap to it. Hopefully by lavishing the scientists doing the important research with that oh-so-important money), and you have an effective guarantee of its occurance. The only worry is it being made open, and again as I've discussed, that's wonderfully likely to happen soon enough too.
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Post by Lupin »

Personally I wouldn't, the shifting is one of the cool parts. Who would want to walk around in the summer in a fur coat? (From what I've heard, with a winter coat, wolves start panting when the temp goes up above zero.)
Ralith Lupus wrote:Bah. Can we try to keep THAT flamewar out of it?
I was joking. I use nano all the time.
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Post by Figarou »

Ok...you want my opinion?




Now lets say humans did find a way to become a werewolf. Thing is, there is more than one method.


1st method.

Surgery.

Ok, you go in and they put everything you need to look like a real werewolf. Fur, tail, digitigrade legs, the works. Problem is, you don't do any transformations. You're stuck in that form permanently. Would you go for it?


2nd method.

Drugs.

lets say there is a pill you can pop and you're a werewolf for a short time. Problem is, with any pill, there is side effects. Vomiting, Nausea, headaches, body aches, ETC. Would you go for it?

3rd method.

A machine.


Lets say there is a machine just like the one in "The Fly" and "The Fly 2"

But in order for it to work, a real wolf has to be in one of the pods. After the fusion, you're a werewolf. But not a shifting one. You need the machine to change back to a normal human. But what about the wolf? Maybe he didn't want to fuse with you. It could try to fight its way out. Maybe take control at some point. Its not easy having 2 minds in one body. Would you go for that?



Think about it.
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Post by white »

1st method: I think that might be quite challenging, assuming we're talking about normal surgery here. It couldnn't be too easy to replace something like the skin or the digestive tract in such a way. But I would be happy with the permanent form; if for no other reason than that, given the earlier mentioned association with anti-aging treatments, chances are I'd live to see proper transformation become a possibility. And until then, I can still go around enjoying all the much-discussed benefits of such a form :)

2nd method: Well, first off, who says there has to be side effects? ;) More seriously, if the technology to do that is available, it's only a little further you have to go for permanent transformative ability. Again, though, I doubt such rapid transformation will become available anywhere near as soon as a basic, permanent, form change. Of course, you can never tell with this sort of thing, and they could show up hand in hand.

3rd method: Let's try to stay within the realms of reality, ok? Implausabilities in the machine itself aside, I highly doubt that one physical brain is capable of supporting two wholly indipendant minds, along with their memories and so on. In any case, if it WAS possible, I don't particularily relish the idea of possibly fighting for control with a wolf's mind. For one thing, if I lost, it'd be in a pretty bad mood by that time, and who knows what it'd do? Especially a problem since the body would still be recognized as mine, and if I ever regained control I'd have to deal with the repercussions. Not to say that NOT having control would likely be much fun.

All in all, I do think we'll have some more attractive possibilities appearing eventually, and I for one would love to wait out at least some of that time in a semi-permanent gestalt form.

Mescellany:
Post-first-transformation your coordiantion would be shot, until you became more comfortable in the radically changed body. Imagine trying to learn how to balance in digitigrade legs when you can't even control yer tail properly yet; good oppertunity to make a fool of yourself (or as another way to get an audience to look upon werewolves as people in any form, actually)
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Post by Figarou »

Ralith Lupus wrote:
3rd method: Let's try to stay within the realms of reality, ok?


Oh. The 3rd method can be a reality. Maybe not in our life time. Whos to say its not possible 500 years from now. :wink:


Now, to answer your question thats in your sig box.

If I was the only one, then no. I won't do it. If others out there want to do the same thing. Then yes, I would.
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Post by Kzinistzerg »

It actually depends. I think I wouldn't go the full route of fuzziness, but i certainly would, if it wasn't to expensive, get retractile claws, better senses, etc, all without changing my apperance. If it got common, hell yeah! but only If i could CHOOSE my appearance.
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Post by Set »

If it was merely permanent cosmetic surgery, I'd get ears and a tail. Possibly claws but nothing other than that. I'd prefer them to be more of the vulpine variety though. Or maybe jackal. Yes, that would be nice.
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Post by Shadow Wulf »

Fenrir wrote:
Shadow Wulf wrote:OMG YOU USED THE WORD NANO :cafinated:
um....so?
What are you allergic? :P :?
Sorry, but I love the idea that military is coming up with nano technology, and plus Im making my nanoelite soldier. :D Its almost done.
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Re: Werewolves in reality

Post by vrikasatma »

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Post by Shadow Wulf »

I think werewolfs would just hang out with each other if they share similar interest like us humans do. We are all humans but there will be people we wont to stay away from. Same with werewolf's, a werewolf can meet another werewolf but wouldnt want to hang out with him cause hes a trouble maker, instead hell keep hanging out with the humans.
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