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Since the almighty moderators are getting annoyed with us, no arguing.

So...according to you, how much height and muscle gain/loss should werewolves have?

I voted "Other," because most of the options you have give a large increase in musculature and small in height. I see just the opposite. Due primarily to digitigrade legs, a werewolf's gestalt form would be significantly (6-10+ inches, mebbe?) taller, and with only a 5-10% increase in mass. I do see gestalt being stronger than that indicates, though; contributing to that would be more effective muscles, a form more able to take advantage of them, and conversion of other exiting mass into musculature.

Eh... *holds up ruler* You think that's small?

I know I said no arguing...and really, I'm not...but people tend to forget that the thigh bone would shrink. The thigh is very short in most quadruped animals, wolves included. I'm just curious as to why you think they'd be so big.

No, I don't think that's small; that's the point.

Yes, the thigh bone would shrink. But keep in mind that this is gestalt, not full wolf; it doesn't shorten to that great a degree, and the change in stance is significant. Most of the height increase wouldn't be due to actual shfting; more, the change of stance necessitated by the shifting that did occur, accentuated by the bone length changes.

I think that you would grow an inch or two a little more muscle not much just a little but should reflect the person like a little guy who like 5 something becomes like 7 foot that is messed up
but a little hight would be good

if there was ever pain involved with the elongation of your body, imagine how much it'd hurt to grow to 7 or 8 feet in height in 10 seconds.

I'd say a decent gain in muscles and size. *shrug*

I'd think around a 15-20% gain in muscle mass sounds good, with a good 6 or 7 inches (a foot being upper limit in height gain) would be nice.

Then again, I have no idea what 15-20% increase would look like...

So I'd say it depends on person. A guy like my is going to be a skinny a** werewolf with maybe some definable muscle (definable through fur that is.) where as someone like Arnold Schwartzenager will be ripped as a Werewolf. And a guy's who's rivalling Jabba the Hutt in obesity will be a blobl of a Werewolf...

15-20% isn't all that much. Most people could easily double their muscle mass (100% increase) and stay well within human limits. Would I consider myself super-strong if I could lift twice as much? Definitely not.

Doubling muscle mass wouldn't double overall weight. I don't have a good figure for what percentage of a normal person's body is muscle, but it's much less than 50%. For reference, Arnold Schwartzenegger was 6' tall and 250 lbs at the peak of his bodybuilding career. I'd say that's 100 lbs muscle mass increase over a normal person of his height; my guess is that represents about a 200% increase.

As for height increase, I tend to use the art-oriented "head" unit. Adding one head height to a normally-proportioned (7.5 heads tall) human yields a heroically-proportioned (8.5 heads tall) gestalt, which tends to look just about right. For an average-height 5'9" guy, one head unit is about 9", so gestalt form would be 6'6". That doesn't sound like much, but the top of the human form's head would just touch the bottom of the gestalt form's chin.

Alright, I wasn't visualizing percentages well. Ultraken's ideas sound just about right.

Based on recent developments in the "Muscles" thread, I had to vote Other.

...nevermind average percentages... Some people would get way taller, but only marginally thicker (HP werewolf...if it was fed)...some would only get a 1/4 head taller, but bulk up massively (Govenator)...some would gain no extra mass at all and almost appear to get smaller, but very, very wolfy (anthro wolf?)...while still others would have thin to no fur, but huge claws, bulging muscles and a stare that would scare the soul out of you.(Underworld Nightmare)

...and infinate combinations and variations thereof... (up to a 10 foot, arms like tree trunks, car crushing, legendary monster)


I'm all for "it's different for everyone".

That works for me.

Vuldari wrote:Based on recent developments in the "Muscles" thread, I had to vote Other.

...nevermind average percentages... Some people would get way taller, but only marginally thicker (HP werewolf...if it was fed)...some would only get a 1/4 head taller, but bulk up massively (Govenator)...some would gain no extra mass at all and almost appear to get smaller, but very, very wolfy (anthro wolf?)...while still others would have thin to no fur, but huge claws, bulging muscles and a stare that would scare the soul out of you.(Underworld Nightmare)

...and infinate combinations and variations thereof... (up to a 10 foot, arms like tree trunks, car crushing, legendary monster)


I'm all for "it's different for everyone".

That works for me.

I voted 'other' as well, for the same reasons you stated. How odd, that you and I agree. In light of what AB mentioned in the muscles thread, I think it is highly likely that every person will be able to find at least one werewolf that really, really suits their ideas of what a werewolf should be. Who knows? There might even be a sort of 'wolfman' character for the people who (for reasons unbeknownst to me) prefer less wolf characters.

Also, having the werewolves vary so much will make it a lot more fun for me whenever I imagine myself as one of the Freeborn werewolves. Based on what AB has said, one could almost be lead to believe that personalities could influence one's gestalt form. In that case....I'd be that ten foot tall, tree wielding, legendary beast (I have a rather beastly personality). If we went by average percentage increases, that would take out some of the fun. I kinda like the idea of what is within influencing your gestalt form, and not just what is on the outside.

Vuldari wrote:Based on recent developments in the "Muscles" thread, I had to vote Other.

...nevermind average percentages... Some people would get way taller, but only marginally thicker (HP werewolf...if it was fed)...some would only get a 1/4 head taller, but bulk up massively (Govenator)...some would gain no extra mass at all and almost appear to get smaller, but very, very wolfy (anthro wolf?)...while still others would have thin to no fur, but huge claws, bulging muscles and a stare that would scare the soul out of you.(Underworld Nightmare)

...and infinate combinations and variations thereof... (up to a 10 foot, arms like tree trunks, car crushing, legendary monster)


I'm all for "it's different for everyone".

That works for me.

I agree with the concept, but not quite to that extent. Variation, yes, but within a more reasonable range.

Excelsia: Yeah, I like the personality affecting form thing too. I doesn't make much sense from a scientific standpoint, but it's cool.

Ralith Lupus wrote: Excelsia: Yeah, I like the personality affecting form thing too. I doesn't make much sense from a scientific standpoint, but it's cool.

Cinematically, I think it will make it much, much easier to tell the characters apart.

After all, it's highly likely that Freeborn could have two characters who are roughly the same height, build, and hair color. If we followed physical standards to a tea, the untrained audience's eye would have trouble telling them apart. However, if we let personalities have a bit of influence...that definitely makes it a lot easier.

But, then again, I could be misinterpreting what AB has said. We shall see. Either way, based on his post, I now have renewed faith in the Freeborn werewolves. For a moment there, I was afraid we would be facing no-mass-gaining, no-height-increasing werewolves. Bleh.

But it's all cool now.

As I explained, strength, apparent volume, and height would increase, just not for the usual reasons.

Anyway, I could see that being a neat aspect; however, it shouldn't be too dominant; let's make sure the already existing correlations set out still have influence at least equal to that of personality.

Ralith Lupus wrote:

Vuldari wrote:Based on recent developments in the "Muscles" thread, I had to vote Other.

...nevermind average percentages... Some people would get way taller, but only marginally thicker (HP werewolf...if it was fed)...some would only get a 1/4 head taller, but bulk up massively (Govenator)...some would gain no extra mass at all and almost appear to get smaller, but very, very wolfy (anthro wolf?)...while still others would have thin to no fur, but huge claws, bulging muscles and a stare that would scare the soul out of you.(Underworld Nightmare)

...and infinate combinations and variations thereof... (up to a 10 foot, arms like tree trunks, car crushing, legendary monster)


I'm all for "it's different for everyone".

That works for me.

I agree with the concept, but not quite to that extent. Variation, yes, but within a more reasonable range.

Excelsia: Yeah, I like the personality affecting form thing too. I doesn't make much sense from a scientific standpoint, but it's cool.

I was exagerating a little to try to fit EVERYONES ideal within the provided spectrum.

...however, I AM fond of the idea of the potential range of variation being large enough that two people of comparable size and build could each become something sufficiantly different from each other (more than just subtle color differences) to almost appear to be of different "breeds" of Lycanthrope, even if they were bitten by the same Werewolf. (though perhaps people from the same bloodline/family, or of the same ethnic race would share recognisable distinguishing traits.)

The further we get from "Agent Smith" style carbon-copying, the better. (IMHO)

Ralith Lupus wrote:As I explained, strength, apparent volume, and height would increase, just not for the usual reasons.

Apparent volume, yes. But actual volume? Not if we stick to the whole "Let's be totally realistic" thing. And as far as height goes, one could make the argument that since the legs will most likely be bent, the increase from the digitigrade feet might be negated, or greatly reduced.

But anyway, I don't care about all that now. I don't want to get into another scientific argument. Especially when I'm all happy now.

Another vote for a moderate position, with liberal aesthetic perspectives but conservative views of physics. That is, they can look meaner and nastier, but they don't actually gain or lose mass between forms.