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Notice: I know some don't like the idea of unknown mass coming from nowhere as debated on another post. I have also read other topics about how werewolves would either remove the clothing or wear elastic or loose clothing. There seems to be a good amount of objection to werewolves wearing cloths while in gesalt form. Probably from the arguement that they no longer fit the mould for what a werewolf normally looks like. More wild and lacking clothing seems to be the ideal view. So since there seems to be some contradictions with the views on what a werewolf should be, I will atempt to see what you all have to say on the matter on how seperate topics collide.

So here are the contradictions that exist that I know of.

Everyone wants ripping clothes and past topics show it. There has been arguements that it can get real expensive. But that only applies if the lycan cannot sense the change or is in too much pain to remove the clothing or skips removing clothes. Obviously if the lycan can control the change or can sense the change early enough, they can remove the clothing. But I realized that shifting would not rip clothing unless there was literal mass gain or a significant shift in mass. Now I dont know how fictional the werewolves will be in Freeborn. But the message I got from the film was that it was attempting to give them a more realistic view. Because of this, the mass supposedly doesn't change. If thats true for this film then the werewolf won't gain any muscle mass and will not rip his/her clothes. Well the shoes may still rip or a necklace may break off but thats about it. If the were's do end up ripping their clothes it will be a HUGE contradiction. Ripping is a direct result of things growing. Even if it's tight clothing over muscles, if the muscles do gain mass than its contradictory to realism. If there is growth then they can be whatever size the creator wishes. But you will have the question of unknown mass source and no more realism.

I also know that people want werewolves to look bold. the common view seems to be big werewolves but not too bulky or tall. Unfortunately this general model of werewolf will not translate to what they would expect if the lycans are based off realism. I see posts about nice looking desirable werewolf looks. That works fine for a fantasy supernatural model. Or if the human was the same mass as the werewolf. But for Freeborn it would be contradictory if the film was leaning for more realism. There was a post about being whatever you were but in lycan form. Eg. thin man = thin werewolf. Well if that is what werewolves will turn out to be in the film, then that would mean if you were being attacked by a huge guy, it wouldn't change the flow of battle. The thin weak gesalt would get beaten down to death even with the most reasonable regen speed you can get away with in a realism based film. The only thing the lycan can do is use his form to run like hell. The more realism is in the film the less strength bonus they get. So what will they be in the film? I am still not sure and the topics are confusing when trying to compare them.

I am sure there are other things but I cant think of them now. Hope this wasnt already mentioned in some topic that I overlooked. If it is then link me the topic and lock this one.

Fastenjaw wrote:Notice: I know some don't like the idea of unknown mass coming from nowhere as debated on another post. I have also read other topics about how werewolves would either remove the clothing or wear elastic or loose clothing. There seems to be a good amount of objection to werewolves wearing cloths while in gesalt form. Probably from the arguement that they no longer fit the mould for what a werewolf normally looks like. More wild and lacking clothing seems to be the ideal view. So since there seems to be some contradictions with the views on what a werewolf should be, I will atempt to see what you all have to say on the matter on how seperate topics collide.

So here are the contradictions that exist that I know of.

Everyone wants ripping clothes and past topics show it. There has been arguements that it can get real expensive. But that only applies if the lycan cannot sense the change or is in too much pain to remove the clothing or skips removing clothes. Obviously if the lycan can control the change or can sense the change early enough, they can remove the clothing. But I realized that shifting would not rip clothing unless there was literal mass gain or a significant shift in mass. Now I dont know how fictional the werewolves will be in Freeborn. But the message I got from the film was that it was attempting to give them a more realistic view. Because of this, the mass supposedly doesn't change. If thats true for this film then the werewolf won't gain any muscle mass and will not rip his/her clothes. Well the shoes may still rip or a necklace may break off but thats about it. If the were's do end up ripping their clothes it will be a HUGE contradiction. Ripping is a direct result of things growing. Even if it's tight clothing over muscles, if the muscles do gain mass than its contradictory to realism. If there is growth then they can be whatever size the creator wishes. But you will have the question of unknown mass source and no more realism.

Of course there is Contradiction...because we don't agree about everything.

The Mass Gain = "Rippage", No Mass Gain = No "Rippage" equation is actually something that has been driving me NUTS for a long time.

I <3 "Rippage". ...but an overabundance of Huge, Bulgy Muscled Werewolves drives me CRAZY... I normally prefer Werewolves to either be Man-sized, Wolf-Sized or something in-between. A shape that is representative of the person. ...but that would mean no rippage...

I have not been able to come up with any solution that I am satisfied with.

Fastenjaw wrote:I also know that people want werewolves to look bold. the common view seems to be big werewolves but not too bulky or tall. Unfortunately this general model of werewolf will not translate to what they would expect if the lycans are based off realism. I see posts about nice looking desirable werewolf looks. That works fine for a fantasy supernatural model. Or if the human was the same mass as the werewolf. But for Freeborn it would be contradictory if the film was leaning for more realism. There was a post about being whatever you were but in lycan form. Eg. thin man = thin werewolf. Well if that is what werewolves will turn out to be in the film, then that would mean if you were being attacked by a huge guy, it wouldn't change the flow of battle. The thin weak gesalt would get beaten down to death even with the most reasonable regen speed you can get away with in a realism based film. The only thing the lycan can do is use his form to run like hell. The more realism is in the film the less strength bonus they get. So what will they be in the film? I am still not sure and the topics are confusing when trying to compare them.

To my understanding, the Werewolves in Freeborn WILL gain noticable height and mass when they transform...enough to cause plenty of "Rippage", and make them big and tough and all that.
(At least...that Is what I gathered after reading the rough of the screenplay)

On "No Mass-Difference = No Change in Flow"...

"Puffier" muscles are not the only way of creating a stronger body. Not all muscle tissue is created equal. By modifying the cellular composition and density of the muscle fibers, a band of muscle tissue the width of of the shaft of a golf club could easily be several times stronger than a typical, cliche' "tree trunk" bycep cluster. In other words...especially if genetic manipulation of the muscle tissue is involved...it is easily possible to double, or quadruple the strength and power of a muscle without needing to increase its volume by any significant amount.

...it is my personal preference to lean towards this type of strength increase, instead of making every werewolf on earth look like a damned, 'swollen like thier allergic to their own fur', bulky body builder...but most seem to disagree with me.

Again...our opinions frequently seem to contradict themselves because we honestly just don't all agree on most points.


I prefer to support more than one variety of werewolf, rather than trying to define one single "Ultimate" werewolf, liking all of them...just to varying degrees.

It is never made clear in the script whether the werewolves are biological or magical. However, from reading certain parts of the script, we can conclude that the are magical. There are several places in the script that make it blatantly apparent that the Freeborn werewolves will be gaining a good deal of mass and height...the more the better, IMO. I absolutely loathe the idea of werewolves keeping the same mass when they shift...to me that's just so terribly boring. This is still a monster after all. And monsters should be monstrous, IMO.

Also, since the Freeborn werewolves will be gaining in mass, there will naturally be rippage...this is also made apparent in the script.

[spoiler]One of my favorite parts of the script is when a female dowth shows up at the house of one of Max's cronies. He can smell that she is a werewolf, and evidently, she must be kinda pretty, because he smiles and her fondly and greets her. She shifts instantaneously to her werewolf form and literally explodes out of her clothing! This scene is gonna be so awesome![/spoiler] Anyway...so there you have it. They will gain mass, and their clothing will rip.

Though AB's also made slight implications that who you are on the inside will also have an effect on what sort of werewolf you become. So, perhaps some people won't gain much mass at all when shifting, but some people may gain lots, depending on who you are on the inside.

Also...please refrain from assuming so much...Freeborn is NOT necessarily striving for realism. It's striving to give audiences a new take on what werewolves are like. The Freeborn werewolves will be radically different from most movie werewolves...but the differences will come mainly in the form of their behavior, not necessarily in their appearance. If you haven't read the script, PM Anthony and ask to read a copy of it.

And, contrary to what you might believe, most of us don't prefer the no-mass-gaining type of werewolf, though it's pretty easy to mistakenly conclude that, as the people who prefer werewolves that don't gain mass are quite vocal.