Lets make a werewolf game... FOR REAL!!

[Guest]

Whats a RABID operative? I can guess werewolf, but other than that, no idea.

[lupine]

I know I'm kinda late in saying anything but, have any of you played Soul Reaver 1 or 2 (i know it's a vamp game but its still awesome). That style of game based around a lycanthrope could be amazing.

[Guest]

The Soul Reaver games rock. That style of game is a bit too complex to start off with, although if the FPS comes together well enough it shouldnt be too hard to modify to engine to play more like the Kain saga (except Defiance, the camera work in that is way beyond any level I could code at).

[Kaebora]

Ok... to answer Anubis's question.

I will help under the following condition. I will not be the only one doing the 3D art. Even a small FPS game with a few levels is an overwelming amount of work for only one person. I have a lot going on this year that will prevent me from doing much. Life always comes first. College, work, online training courses I'm paying two grand for, and various payed freelance projects on the side. Just keep in mind that this project will not be the number one priority of any person, dispite how much you wish it to be so. I hate to be so blunt, but it's all true.

I will wait for some of the concept art to roll through, I will do some test models, and we'll see if it works out. But please please PLEASE seek out more modelers and texture artists. We can use any 3D programs, just as long as we work out a common file structure before work begins.

[Anubis]

Okay I'll be on the look out for more modelers,

If any one that can help model would it would be greatly appreciated!

And Dark Goat sorry i talked about it so much i keep thinking every body knows about it.

RABID Stands for Ry'ou (werewolves) Advanced Beuro of Inhuman Defense.

It's an army made out of werewolves to defend the humans and friendly races from supernatural and extraterrestrial threats, they are equipped with extremely advanced technology taken from the UFO that crashed in Roswell in 1947.

[Anubis]

know what foing a 3D FPS might be too complexe. what about we make a 2D game like a side scroller or a something like the orginal Zelda games?

Some thing like that would be a lot better, Because we can make a FULL game, simpiler graphics and animations, we could just do every thing with GIMP or Photoshop. like what most people here know how to use, and ease the work load for Kaebora, and also simpler coding because i don't know if darkgoat have that knowlage for game programming..

[Guest]

Actually I was feeling pretty confident about doing a 3d game. I havent done any games before, my time has all been spent on work apps, and my home theater program. However using XNA it looks damn easy.

If you want to go 2d, I'd say I would rather go back to my rpg idea and use the zelda template than do a side scroller. Theres so many scrollers out there you can generate them through most klik and play engines without too much effort.

[ravaged_warrior]

2D, eh? Well, I believe I have just the thing:

http://www.gamemaker.nl/

I think it allows for coding, though it isn't regular C. If that becomes too taxing, it has another coding process which doesn't require that, but is based on variables and button pressing and the like. Also, for the 2D sprites and animation, it pretty much expects you to be using Photoshop or some program already, so that all works out. Finally, if a first person shooter IS what we decide to do, it has a tutorial on the web page on how to make an FPS with 2D sprites, DOOM style, though it DOES require knowledge in their coding style.

[Anubis]

I have no problem with 3D, heck I would LOVE to do a 3D game!

But the fact of of the matter is that i don't want to over load Kaebora with work, it wouldn't be fair to expect him to do all of that for us, he has a life you know. If we had a lot more people to model for us then it wont be a problem, but i don't think we don't have any more modelers that would volunteer their free time and expertise to do this for us.

But a lot of people know GIMP and Photoshop here and can make sprites and environments for us, and i'm sure that they might be happy to help us out.

We are just understaffed, we have to work with what we got.

We can still use XNA, it capable of pretty much any game genre and level it has to be or it wont fly with developers.

[Kaebora]

I don't do 2D. Well, let me rephrase that. I don't do 2D well. I have no problem helping with a 3D game, but 2D side scroller games are a genre that should have died long ago. It's just the nostalgic old-school gamers that like that stuff. What would be interesting, is a side scrolling fighter game with 3D characters. If the game involved 2D characters, you'd have to find a sprite artist, which I am not. I would just do the moving 3D backgrouds. In my opinion, making an FPS using the Half-Life 2 engine may be the easiest route. There are already tons of utilities made for the modding of Half-Life 2. I have some experiance with this in character modding and level design. I dislike the Hammer level design utility, but it does integrate better into the ready-made game engine. Modding an already present game is the route you would take if you want a smaller work load. The coders will thank you, as they already have a structure to work with.

[Guest]

I've got to check with deruty still (I'll get around to that soon), but I'd still prefer to use XNA and write something myself rather than mod an existing program. HL2 is awesome, if you want a game that feels like HL2 with a mod ontop.

My aim is partly to write a werewolf game, partly to learn XNA because I want to get into the 360 homebrew scene. It doesnt really matter if its 2d or 3d, its still going to involve its own difficulties and challenges (if its 2d, the people doing the animations going to be busy). I'm also not intending to stop after one project, so any one who has good ideas and shrugs them off thinking they are too complex should write them down in case we come back for more (I will be, it depends if anyone else is interested or not).

The style of game more depends on who is willing to do artwork for it. Soon as we can form a team and have some skills onboard (Kaebora, you can do 3d but your busy. If your the only designer, that wont work) then we can plan the style better.

Basically the only thing I can say for certain is I'm intending to use XNA. Its power vs ease of use is attractive, so unless theres a very good reason (other coders wanting to use another language being about the only one), we dont need any more suggestions of languages.

Sitting through 3 hours of very dull tutorials on c# structures is incredibly painful.

[Anubis]

Kaebora I'm still planning to use 3D for characters.

I was planning to do a shooter but with a Zelda type evironment then to have the sprites be able to shoot 360 degrees, in all directions. but in order to keep it from looking crappy with out making hundreds of sprites. I was planning to have the characters be in 3D in a 2D world and then make them in a way so they'll somewhat match the environment.

but before we start is it possible to do like they did in Resident Evil and have the inviroments Prerendured but with out the crappy camera angles. would that be easier on you if we did that?

Or should we go my way, the prerendured way, or we try to find more modelers so we can to do a some what decent (but short) FPS?

[Kaebora]

In terms of difficulty all of these environment styles will be a chore. That's unavoidable. Pre-rendered backgrounds are easy on the CPU, allowing for more detailed characters and backgrounds. However the backgrounds do not move, and are expected to be twice as detailed due to the fact that it isn't rendered in real-time. Still less work for programmers.

Fully modeled environments require a similar amount of work due to the fact that it is a full 360 degree environment. Why similar in worklod for artists? Because it is real-time rendering through the CPU, the poly count has to be reduced, and the textures have to be utilized to cover up the simplifications. You can make more content in a similar amount of time for a few pre-rendered shots. Definately more fun to play, but more work for programmers.

Always with the Pros and Cons. What's up with you Kaebora?!

In my opinion if this were a fighting game, pre-rendered, multi-layer, moving backgrounds would be perfect. If it were an FPS, real time environments is a must. It's expected by most FPS players these days. Pre-rendered backgrounds are more for RPG exporeing types of games that require less erratic movement, or side scrollers where the static point of view isn't expected to change much.

[Guest]

Ive got everything I need downloaded through work so I can begin playing around with various game styles and see what I can / cant do. I should be able to post some tech demos up in about a week (hopefully on the weekend). Till then, dont bother too much with storyline, but more on some character designs and yeah people with skills.

[Guest]

Was wondering if anyone here knows if its possible to set up a sub-forum to continue some of this discussion. Also a place we can just post vague ideas / comments about the game without having to follow it in this one long thread. Just an idea, thought id mention it.

[Morkulv]

[Morkulv]

[Anubis]

To 3D or not to 3D that is the question.

We have to make up our minds with this, Every side has it's pro and cons.
Go simple and 2D or stretch our novice butts and go 3D.

Right now I'm leaning towards Prerenderd and make it like Resident Evil, (thrid person shooter, but we do get to see the werewolf we're controling) but minus the camera angels. Kaebora said it was easier on programmers (because we only have one) but he said that it was same amount of work if we were to go full real time environments. But since this is a strictly independent and with probono volunteer work so people wont expect much of us.

so we might get away with less than great graphics therefore reducing the work for our few modelers (if Morkulv is willing to give us a hand that is, i know that he can model)

[Guest]

I"d say wait until the weekend before making a decision.

Once I've had a chance to spend some time working with XNA, I can post up the tech demos that show what I can and can't do. Then everyone has a better idea of the limitations and decide on the game style.

So far, I've followed the first few tutorials. 2d is really simple, although I havent got around to input yet. I've gone and raided models from some freeware places and hope to have at least a 3d object viewer going by the end of tonight, then how something playable in a few different styles over the weekend.

Personally I'm not a fan of prerendered backgrounds though. From looking through various demos etc I'd say the Soul Reaver style gameplay (3rd person game although probably without SR's trick of never having to load maps once your in the game, forgotten what thats called).

[Vuldari]

I still thik this whole project will be much, much easier, and result in a higher quality, more playable result if it is done entirely as a Mod to an existing mod-friendly game...such as Half-Life (1 or 2), Unreal, Morrowind/Oblivion or some other solid game engine.

If people can make an impressive racing game from the HalfLife game engine, I'm sure you could mod whichever game engine you choose to do whatever you want.

It will save alot of time and energy in coding and whatever (depending on what you try to do with it, that is), and you will have plenty of examples of other mods to use as inspiration, or even steal some code from.

Don't try to make your very first game from scratch (well...I suppose you can if you Really want to...)...you will learn faster by building upon the talents and experience of others.


http://moddb.com

http://mods.moddb.com/getting-started/

[Guest]

Im curious, is anyone actually willing to help or is this one long thread of 'doubt the new guy'?

[Vuldari]

Im curious, is anyone actually willing to help or is this one long thread of 'doubt the new guy'?

I would if I had a clue what I was doing, had alot of free time, or had any significant experience.

I tried creating a mansion in the HL1 game engine once to play Deathmatch in using the built-in program my brother pointed out to me, and even tried to set AI bots for a Single Player mission...but I didn't know how it worked so I gave up (Having no Internet at the time to look for instructions, and only a Pentium II computer with 32megs of ram to work with...it was 1998 I think), and have not tried again since then, though I've meant to.

A decade later, with massive databases of Free resources at our disposal, I think it would be totally doable.


I really don't recommend using any one of the advertised "GAME MAKER" programs. I've never heard anything good about any of them...or heard of any respectable games made From them either.

...however, people who make mods of other games are known to get careers in those fields. (Take the "Counter Strike" mod of Half-Life, or the "Desert Combat" mod of Battlefield 1942 for example. The creators of those now have jobs...as does GARY of the now famous "Gary's Mod" for HL2.)

Whether you just looking for a one-shot fun deal, or intend to go full pro with it, Mod's are the way to go, I think.

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( BTW...I'm not expecting to have enough free time in the near future to contribute very much to such a project right now...not that I would be of much use...I'm just trying to help the only way I know how...by giving advice, even when no one asks for it...or wants it. I do that.

Sorry if I'm pissing anyone off right now. )

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Anyway...I fully support this project in any way that I can. I think this is an awesome Idea. THE PACK Should have it's own videogame.


So what is it going to be? FPS...ThirdPerson Shooter...Third Person Adventure...First-Third Person/Isometric RPG...Something Else?


Step One is to make up our minds about that. What is it going to be?

Step Two will be to choose the creation method. (Mod, "Game Maker", Flash, or from Scratch)

Step Three will be to assign project roles. This project needs focus, direction and Leadership structure to go anywhere. Who is in charge? Is it Anubis?

[Kaebora]

Ok, my final take on this.

3D Game - I would volunteer to do characters, weapons, level design and texturing, provided that I'm not alone in the more tedious areas. I would expect everyone who is capable to help with texturing. That takes more time than anything else.

2D Game - I would volunteer to do the animated backgrounds, matte paintings, and would have more time to work with concept art. I have no skill in sprite animation yet that is video game worthy.

This is still all just a big IF right now. We'll see. At least you guys have some idea of what I can possibly handle for you.

Anyone want a playable Figarou character?

[Anubis]

Vuldari gave some good points, i heard that making a mod was more difficult than from scratch but i agree that if we want to make a 3D game, we have to do were most of the work is already done.

Darkgoat don't count your self out yet, we still need a programmer to plug in the graphics, sound, or what ever else is needed to be done, by someone who can program.

and as the style is concerned i'm thinking about a third-preson shooter or something in third-person because we want to have a werewolf game, and it's no fun if we can't see the werewolf that we are control of.

And to pull it off we NEED talents of other modelers! If any one can model even a little bit, volunteer we are in no postition to be picky! I know we have more here, right now i'm aware that Kaebora, Vuldari, Morkulv, and Set have some level of skill at modeling.

[Kaebora]

Third person games are natorious for having bad camera angles. Unless you plan on having the coders wrestle over programming the hell out of that thing, best not to try that. Besides, if it's a multiplayer game it doesn't have to be third person, right? First Person Shooter games are always... well... First Person. I know of virtually no game engines you can mod that aren't FPS game engines. Sure, you CAN turn it into third person, but be prepared for glitches everywhere. Showing off eye candy is not good enough reason to make it 3rd. It should only be like that to enhance the gameplay.

Why not make it so that you can switch between 1st and 3rd view cameras with the touch of a button? The Half-Life 1 mod Earth's Special Forces had that option. That way the gamer can play the way they want, rather than be forced into a setup they might dislike.