THE PACK Message Boards

PariahPoet,

We did speak with Sabre in private (granted, in my case, it was after others had various things rolling). What you imply, is that since Z said she was no longer interested in The Pack and hasn't returned is cause to delete her account and all her posts is like saying that Vilkacis or ABrownrigg haven't returned in years (or at least a LONG time), and their accounts and posts can be deleted. Because, obviously, if either of them were still interested in The Pack, they would return and post once a year. (this is not my feelings literally, just what I feel is implied)

When one of the admins contacted Z, asking her if she wanted her account and posts deleted, Z did not condone her account being deleted. As in: the user did not ask for the account and all their posts to be wiped out of existence. That wasn't the issue. Sabre took issue with her feelings being hurt that an admin asked Z if Z wanted her account deleted before anyone contacted Sabre. These are things I am mentioning in addition to what Lupin mentioned - Sabre not following the rules that govern the Admin and Moderator positions - and letting the rest of us know that Z wanted her account and posts deleted. Had she informed the rest of us (before, immediately after or during the deletion), we wouldn't have asked any questions.

As it turned out, Z's and Sabre's stories didn't match up. We know that neither of them get along, and haven't for some time. As I told Sabre, in a private conversation, it's an ugly situation. Based on what the moderators and admins know of the situation, we can't tell whether Z or Sabre was lying, or what. However, we can tell what Sabre's actions have been since, such as breaking the vow of silence that the staff keeps elsewhere on the forums, the creation of duplicate accounts (which is, by the way, prohibited), and telling all the folks out there that she is innocent while we're a bunch of backstabbers. When she said that, it made the situation personal, in my case.

I'm not sure which saddens me more: For finding out that I am wrong for standing up to the Admin team for Sabre, or watching Sabre prove them right.

Or to put it simply, there's nothing in the rules of conduct that says we can be banned or have our accounts deleted due to inactivity.

This message board has hundreds of registered accounts that don't even have a single post to their record; I'm having a hard time understanding why Z's account would warrant special interest while all of those would not.

So even if Z did request to have her account and posts deleted, I have to say that I don't think it was wise to follow through with it. Maybe I'm just more paranoid than others, but if I was an admin and somebody I previously had an ugly history with asked me to delete their account and all of their posts, my first thought would be that I'm being set up.

But I'm not an admin. Never was, probably never will be; I wouldn't have a clue what goes on between you and the rest of the admin staff in private. There's my two cents on the matter for as well as I can see it; best of wishes to you all and whatnot.

So Lupin and other non-admins were not present when you talked to her? I still believe that she should have been contacted quietly and privately as soon as someone decided there was a problem, and allowed her to decide whether to restore the account or to step down. With all that she has done for the Pack and for the admin individually I think she deserved that courtesy at least. -_-
I also do not approve of reading her private messages without her consent. Do I have to worry about someone snooping through my pm's without my knowledge? With the way things are going, I feel like I might.

PariahPoet wrote:So Lupin and other non-admins were not present when you talked to her?

Huh?

I still believe that she should have been contacted quietly and privately as soon as someone decided there was a problem, and allowed her to decide whether to restore the account or to step down.

She was. Deletion is permanent, you can't restore a deleted account without backups and directly messing with the database.

Do I have to worry about someone snooping through my pm's without my knowledge? With the way things are going, I feel like I might.

Well, before you make any decisions, you should consider the fact that anyone who works at the hosting company could snoop through your PM's and that anyone at the datacenter where the server is hosted could do the same.

But this is the way all hosting works, so take that as you will.

Pariah they won't listen. They have their little group on chat and they can say what they want and do what they want. I did not prove anyone right Baph, sorry if your going to believe that. I really don't care which is why I went silent here. I am going to say this, ya'll know me and Z have not spoken in a year, why would I suddenly just do that? Have I ever done with before with anyone? There are several people on the pack I can't stand, but I never did anything to them. Again my actions were harmless. It is personal Baph because it affects me what you all did. No one still listened to me. I don't know what is going on with Z and I don't care. What I do know is I am still an active member and Z was not. I have deleted accounts before, but this one seemed to be a problem just because she is my ex. I deleted posts before too, but nothing was done. All these new Admins and Mods that came in changed the way I was doing things before they had their power because as I said before no one seems to remember. All the changes you have made to the forum no one talked with me about. So what if it was posted I did not know and no one tried to contact me.

I don't appreciate everyone in pack chat knowing about this whole thing. You guys decided to make it public and now I am hearing from folks who should have never known. To me this is bullying. You are gather all these folks together to talk against me. That is not fair and you are all proving my words right, but just can't see it because like the saying goes"Strength in numbers" there are alot of you and only one of me. Pariah knows as well as I do how that works. Non admins/Mods should have never been involved. You guys still won't face up to the fact you are the ones that made a mistake here. Baph, since when did you stand up? As far as I knew you told me you believed them as it still holds you do. I am just trying to defend myself here which obviously is a losing battle. I don't want to keep running away from what I believe in here. I always have, but no not this time because I am tired of people walking all over me.

I been in this forum since 2005 and have never caused any trouble before. In those years have you seen me cause any trouble? I have never been banned not even once. I stepped up and helped people all the time. Hell you guys are getting on me for trying to defend, wow but you all as a whole don't have to worry about much. You are the ones with the power now. Pariah is right about what Z said about having no interests in the pack so what is the big deal? Sorry I am still going to hold to my words and what she told me. I would not wait a whole year to do something to someone geez. When we first broke up is when I could have done it because I was really fragile.

What was my reasoning now? I just did it and I explained it was not out of spite and never have I done anyone here or elsewhere anything out of spite. Please tell me when I have done this before and I will take back everything I have said here. It is obvious this is one sided. Take the words of someone inactive for nearly 2 years or the words of someone who is here and doing their job or was trying to. Because you all believe her I really should just keep my trap shut because no one is listening. So YES it is personal, but because you all are making it this way by taking sides. I actually listen to my friends before passing judgement.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf wrote:Again my actions were harmless.

Permanently removing a user's account, even if it's inactive, isn't exactly harmless.


Since this thread has caused entirely too much drama, my posts in this thread will now about how annoying it is when people turn off important services like databases without informing people like IT did in the clusterf-- yeah-- this weekend, causing me to lose a day and a half, at least, of important scan data.

Okay this whole issue is getting more worse than I thought it possibly could. I have no idea of the whole backstage information, since I had a quite long break of two years not attending this site, but what's going on right now between you all challenges my good remenbrances of this very place a lot!

Why did you make this a public discussion? Why all this drama? Look what it 'caused right now - well known and liked pack members are leaving for this very madness! That's one of the biggest messes I've ever encountered!

Just do me a favor - ALL of you being involved - shut up!

Every word you saying just makes things more worse. If you want to discuss this till the insane end, do it - but not openly anymore, please!

I'm sorry for my harsh words - but I fear if nobody shouts for an end of this discussion it'll end in a very bad situation for The Pack as a whole. Take your time, cool down ... and try to be civilised people - all of you, again, 'cause I have no clue what really happened and I have no intention to find out or take sides. Everyone of you made mistakes in my eyes. Well, anyways ... these were my two cents on the matter.

Lupin wrote:

Teh_DarkJokerWolf wrote:Again my actions were harmless.

Permanently removing a user's account, even if it's inactive, isn't exactly harmless.


Since this thread has caused entirely too much drama, my posts in this thread will now about how annoying it is when people turn off important services like databases without informing people like IT did in the clusterf-- yeah-- this weekend, causing me to lose a day and a half, at least, of important scan data.

Maybe if you came to me about the issue I would not be so angry. Your not a Mod or Admin anyways Lupin so why say anything period in this topic???

Grayheart wrote:Okay this whole issue is getting more worse than I thought it possibly could. I have no idea of the whole backstage information, since I had a quite long break of two years not attending this site, but what's going on right now between you all challenges my good remenbrances of this very place a lot!

Why did you make this a public discussion? Why all this drama? Look what it 'caused right now - well known and liked pack members are leaving for this very madness! That's one of the biggest messes I've ever encountered!

Just do me a favor - ALL of you being involved - shut up!

Every word you saying just makes things more worse. If you want to discuss this till the insane end, do it - but not openly anymore, please!

I'm sorry for my harsh words - but I fear if nobody shouts for an end of this discussion it'll end in a very bad situation for The Pack as a whole. Take your time, cool down ... and try to be civilised people - all of you, again, 'cause I have no clue what really happened and I have no intention to find out or take sides. Everyone of you made mistakes in my eyes. Well, anyways ... these were my two cents on the matter.

Oh I know I made mistakes, but I did say sorry several times here even though it really was harmless. Everyone acts like I hurt someone. Only reason I still gripe is because the others that made a mistake won't say sorry. They are being cowardly and avoiding it because they can because this is the internet. I even got balls on the internet to admit when I am in the wrong.

I did not mention names though as you know Grayheart. I knew better than to do that, but the people involved wished to make themselves known and that is not my fault here, but I will seize this time to just stop. We all do need to shut up. I am fine without having admin status, just next time a warning would be fine. I am upset how it was handled, but I hate something like this to really mess up friendships. But in a friendship even an online one if I do something bad please come to me first and keep it between us? It's not much I am asking and I will make sure to come to you next time should anything ever arise. All I wanted was an apology. 3 people did so I should at least be grateful for them.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf wrote:Your not a Mod or Admin anyways Lupin so why say anything period in this topic???

Nah, I just thought my words should be evaluated on their content, and not because some bits in a database were ones instead of zeros.

I'm disappointed in the result, however.

Lupin wrote:

Teh_DarkJokerWolf wrote:Your not a Mod or Admin anyways Lupin so why say anything period in this topic???

Nah, I just thought my words should be evaluated on their content, and not because some bits in a database were ones instead of zeros.

I'm disappointed in the result, however.

Well, now I am just lost. Maybe that is a good thing.


In any case I will vent about something else now. I hate allergies and I hate sneezing to a point where it hurts. I like the nice weather, but not the bugs and the high mold count is. I would prefer it stayed cold.

Ok, this needs to stop, everyone....NOW.

Sabre, putting everything that has been said aside, regardless of how harmless you think your actions were....YES, you DID apologize, that is a good thing, so please drop this issue, for everyone's sake. If you truly care about this forum...stop fueling the drama.

You apologized, this is good, the events of the last few days have been punishment enough...so this should just stop now.

And to everyone else, me included...PLEASE STOP AS WELL. This argument is tearing people apart more than it should. Let things simmer down, don't go demanding apologies, and do NOT try to get the last word blaming people. It is driving people away, and tearing this very forum apart.

Just stop arguing, go back to your lives, don't continue this drama further, it really doesn't need to go further than this.

I won't be arguing more about this, I won't be adding any more "here's my two cents" posts on this issue. I want nothing more to do with this, it should just stop, here and now, before any more damage is done.

Howlitzer wrote:Ok, this needs to stop, everyone....NOW.

Sabre, putting everything that has been said aside, regardless of how harmless you think your actions were....YES, you DID apologize, that is a good thing, so please drop this issue, for everyone's sake. If you truly care about this forum...stop fueling the drama.

You apologized, this is good, the events of the last few days have been punishment enough...so this should just stop now.

And to everyone else, me included...PLEASE STOP AS WELL. This argument is tearing people apart more than it should. Let things simmer down, don't go demanding apologies, and do NOT try to get the last word blaming people. It is driving people away, and tearing this very forum apart.

Just stop arguing, go back to your lives, don't continue this drama further, it really doesn't need to go further than this.

I won't be arguing more about this, I won't be adding any more "here's my two cents" posts on this issue. I want nothing more to do with this, it should just stop, here and now, before any more damage is done.

Um, how about you drop it Howlizter? GrayHeart already did what your trying to do now... I moved onto something else. But since you want to keep running your yap I say you never should have been involved and especially now so you drop it since it's over yeesh lol I am sorry if people are leaving, but I did not start this. I posted my piece and people wanted to add their two cents and let everyone know who they are. Not my fault. You may not realize it but you aren't helping yourself. No one who keeps responding is helping so your just as bad as everyone for posting again, I moved on, why did you refuel it Howls?


I will say this about Z, if anything else she made me think about is never back down if you know your right. She told me this and you know? I have to agree it makes me feel better doing this. If you want to end this then don't post anything else. It seems that you want the last word. Wait...Why am I talking to you? You were not an admin or a mod....Stay out of it Howls...Nothing more annoying than someone getting involved that has no business being involved in the first place. There were no demands for apologies, I just asked for them.

Look Sabre, Howlitzer and Greyheart and many others who I shall not name are just upset that this incident as occured and it is causing trouble. I not saying one side is or isnt or anything. They just want it to end and they are not refueling. They are more trying to cut the fuel pipe to the tank, so to speak.

On of that you are saying that he should stay out of it when you post in a public topic where people can talk about it. You can't tell people to stay out of it if you are posting somewhere here. All most people want though is just nomrality and the continuation of this issue is not going to restore that. You may tout that I am keeping it going but only if you respond in a manner that prolongs the talk of this issue. I am just trying to explain Howls logic.

So can we have some peace at last?

Admins and Mods, I request that there please be no discussion of disciplinary actions taken on members for privacy reasons. If Sabre wants to talk about what is going on, that's fine. It's her situation and she has the right. However, publicly refuting the reasons for the decisions made defeats the purpose of having a hidden forum where it was already discussed away from general members. I consider it a courtesy to let the disciplined member have the option to keep it to themselves if they wish. As time records on posts indicate, Sabre brought it public first on her own, though I feel we shouldn't add to it.

The disciplinary actions taken happened with very careful deliberation, and cannot be changed. As in all cases, not everyone voted "yes" for the actions taken, but majority judgment was passed. Admins and Mods are supposed to put personal feelings aside when making important judgment calls, and I can only hope that everyone in this forum can understand that.

I will say no more on this topic.

Peace Dudes

I wish we had Fig back. Things worked much nicer when there was just one go-to person.

Sure is soapbox here. And I'm not even involved.

In other news, my parents will someday be the death of me. My stepdad is forcing me to man up, balls up and face the world with only a rifle, and mum still wants to shelter me like a SPESHUL KID even though she's trying hard to have a change of heart. You're tearing my mind apart. f*** you both.

Oh, and fake dad? Good job on being a chav when you said multitasking is only for women. Great f***' job. Real proud of you.

Right. Off this topic and on to other venting-

I wasted 5 years of my life to get a degree(got interrupted by a hurricane), only to find out that it's worth crap.

I'm working part time at a minimum wage job as a waitress in a coffeehouse where people talk down to me because they assume I'm too stupid to do anything else. I have been looking for other work for three years, during which, I have been left for 12 hours overnight with violent drug-addicted teens, got hired for my ultimate job of being a drug dog handler, got fired from it the day before I started work because I can't smell alcohol, and got contacted once by two other potentially awesome jobs that I never heard from again.

The apartment I'm renting belongs to my mate's parents and is smaller than their living room. I live in the upstairs of their guest house and the downstairs is still theirs. Every afternoon Daniel's dad is downstairs working out half-naked to an exercise video Daniel got for us to use. I have to walk past him to get to my apartment and listen to him crashing around all afternoon. I can't even wash clothes in my pajamas because the washer hook ups are downstairs so I have to be completely dressed because he is ALWAYS THERE!!! Daniel's little sister sneaks into my apartment to use my computer and look for her cat, and Daniel's dad let some random kid into my apartment while I was out but my friend was there to use the bathroom.

I can't have a pet because the neighbor cats tortured my poor Bruce and nearly killed him and Daniel's mom hates dogs, so I can't have a puppy either.

I desperately want to get married to my mate and move out of here but we can't because we can't afford it. He has a genetic condition that causes his bones to be messed up. He has no collarbone and his teeth didn't come in normally. His parents had all his teeth pulled when he was a kid and he's spent the last 15 years having oral surgeries every month to bring his teeth in and align them. He has to pay all his own medical bills, so he doesn't have any more money than I do to get out of this hell.

I would dearly love to go back to Colorado this summer but I don't have the money to do it. When I graduated I didn't have the money to go to Europe like other college grads, so I intended to stay a year at Mission:Wolf for my graduation, but I was only able to stay 2 months because my grandmother and Daniel guilted he into coming back. Daniel told me his grandfather had cancer and might not survive, so I came home to be there for him. That was 2 years ago and his grandfather is still fine. So I never got my trip.

I'm still putting in tons of job applications and still getting rejected by everyone so I have no hope of things ever getting any better. -_-

-FML

Teh_DarkJokerWolf wrote:I don't appreciate everyone in pack chat knowing about this whole thing. You guys decided to make it public and now I am hearing from folks who should have never known. To me this is bullying.

Okay, I don't use the pack chat so I don't know everything that happens there. . . But correct me if I'm wrong: weren't you the one that first posted about this in this "Venting" thread?

Tad bit of hypocrisy maybe?

Oi. You know what? If it makes you feel better to think that you did nothing wrong and that everybody really is out to get you -- if it's really easier to do that than to just admit that a mistake was made. . . Fine, go ahead and keep thinking that way. Between your "I'm leaving!" post (that too was evidently not true) and the nearly identical thread posted by Baph about the same damn thing, I'm actually kind of glad neither of you are going to be admins anymore. I can't imagine the type of firestorm that would have erupted had the two of you butted heads over something important.

That's all I'm going to say, both on the matter, and possibly even to Baph and Sabre in general. They both said they weren't coming back, so why should I write anything to someone that (indirectly) said themselves they'll never be here to read it?

And now for something completely different.

Some of you might know that, for a long time now, I've been battling with allergies. So, when I saw a coupon offering seven dollars off of packs of 30 Claritin tablets (about $27.00 usually) for this week only, it seemed like a good deal.

At least until I opened up the box at home and found a bunch of other coupons inside it on which the fine print said they were good until December 31, 2008. Then I found out why they were offering seven bucks in the first place: The expiration date on the package was January 10.

They were offering such a hefty discount on it because it's ****ing useless!

It's my fault for not checking the package in the first place, but. . . Still! What kind of a ****y thing to do is that?! It's medicine for Pete's sake -- people suffer if it doesn't work. What if they tried to peddle Imodium AD like that -- what if some poor guy was getting on the bus when he unfortunately discovered that the drugs didn't work?! Or what if it was something like the flu -- something you could die from? What then?!!

Yet another reason privatized healthcare doesn't work in any way, shape or form whatsoever. They don't care what they're giving us -- they only care that we're buying it. The pharmaceutical companies don't care if it works or not, and evidently neither do the store chains that are selling it.

Terastas wrote:Yet another reason privatized healthcare doesn't work in any way, shape or form whatsoever. They don't care what they're giving us -- they only care that we're buying it. The pharmaceutical companies don't care if it works or not, and evidently neither do the store chains that are selling it.

The FDA gives 17-year patents to pharmaceutical companies so that they can make money off of their existing drugs (because it takes many years to research, develop, run clinical trials for, apply for, and inspect a new drug). The company owns the name-brand, and they're the only ones allowed to sell it legally, so it seems reasonable that they would want to sell as many as possible before their patent expires, regardless of quality. They know that people can't get that medicine from any other company until the patent expires, so people are forced into buying that medicine from only that company. High prescription drug prices are also a growing issue (even though Claritin is OTC, this might be part of the reason why you were attracted to a discount on then-unknown expired medicine, especially because Claritin is a name-brand and the only OTC drug in its class).

Finally, something non-personal to argue about.

No more discussion of the topic involving the demotion, otherwise admins and mods will start removing posts. There will be no changing of the majority decision that was made because it is final. This forum is here for purposes other than personal issues between Pack members or debating finalized admin discipline. Move on, because otherwise it leads to a continued mountain of drama.

Warning

We drop the Sabre business right now. Continuing this business will only hurt the Pack.

Please, people: Sabre recieved the same discipline that any of us would have received if we had done what she did. It's done. Over.

Please: start venting about something else. You aren't going to change our decision by continuing this stuff, and you will hurt the Pack.

I need to vent.

Grr. . . My position as Lord of the Puns is being challenged once again.