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Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:36 am
by silverpaw
lol run for cover, sweet pic

Re: What are your thoughts on how a werewolf would fight.

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:45 pm
by Anubis
Kwipper wrote:I have been thinking about this for quite sometime. How exactly would a werewolf fight? Also, could a werewolf hone his fighting skills or combine them with a form of martial arts to create a style more suitable for the gestalt form? What are your thoughts on this?

... and try to keep the matrix jokes to a minimum. :)







DUCKIE FU!!! *breaks out the nunchaku with rubber ducks in place of
wooden sticks*
i think that i would be a mixture of human martial arts and a wolf's hunting skills. gracful, but fiecre and agressive

Re: What are your thoughts on how a werewolf would fight.

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:56 pm
by Figarou
wolf marine wrote:
Kwipper wrote:I have been thinking about this for quite sometime. How exactly would a werewolf fight? Also, could a werewolf hone his fighting skills or combine them with a form of martial arts to create a style more suitable for the gestalt form? What are your thoughts on this?

... and try to keep the matrix jokes to a minimum. :)







DUCKIE FU!!! *breaks out the nunchaku with rubber ducks in place of
wooden sticks*
i think that i would be a mixture of human martial arts and a wolf's hunting skills. gracful, but fiecre and agressive
kalindo, anyone?

Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:29 pm
by Shadow Wulf
i always wanted to see a werewolf not just its bear hands and teeth, but use big guns, like miniguns(whats so mini about that, cmon) and rocket launchers and ohohoh rayguns. hey a werewolf is strong enough to keep it steady and he should shoot it nore accurate than a human would. After all everyone wants werewolf to be intellegence. This is a dumb idea, i know it shouldnt be done but i still want to see how would it look like.

ha. i could see arnold szwarzenagar whatever being replaced by a werewolf in terminator 2, in the last seen where the t 1000 gets frozen.

Werewolf holds up a rocket launcher and points at the frozen cyborg.

Werewolf says: hasta la vista, baby. swooooooosh....BAM

werewolf fighting

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:47 am
by stiltbeast
first off lets specify the question, is it how would a WW kill or how would one fight? they are different questions after all.
Unless there were very special circumstances a WW wouldnt fight a human, he would kill him because he is prey. I think newer WW's would go for the throat bite against humans cause that is part of the instict of wolves for taking down prey. this would be modified in more experienced WW's because over time it would learn how much more physically superior it is and then would alter its kill to suit its feeding style. So it might immediately gut a human to get at his inner organs and entrails because that is normally what is devoured first and a gut swipe is sufficient to kill a human quickly.
Now, how would one fight, there is another thing altogether, I believe against a similarily armed oppenent (tooth and claw) he would protect his weak spots throat, stomach, inner thigh. To do this the best way is to adopt a quadroped stance. His main weapon (his Bite) would then be the closest part of his to the enemy making for faster attacks. His oppenent would probably adopt the same stance, so the first target would be the forearm (there is a very well written dog against dog fight scene in White Fang by Jack London). If sufficient damage is done to the opponents fore arm then he cannot support his weight on one arm and swipe with the other. That forces the opponent to adopt a standing fight stance which puts his mouth and claws further away from his attacker as well as puts his weak spots directly in front of his opponent.
Mabye Ive though to much on this, but Im a fighter, its what I do. So the question appealed to me and If you think about it I think my therories are sound.

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 12:53 am
by stiltbeast
A P.S. to my last post
I think werewolves useing guns and blades is stupid. Werewolves are creatures of nature, they have natural weapons, they do not need to make or use weapons, man does thats why he makes them, we are soft pink meals that happen to walk around untill we get served.
Men have a desire to affect things far away from them, hence the remote, guns, long range communitation devices we think that gives us power. Werewolves wouldnt have that line of thinking, all weapons are extensions of the human body or will, a werewolf has no desire to kill from a distance, if he cant get to the corpse then he cant eat it when he is done.
just my 3 cents

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:05 am
by hydrocarbon
stiltbeast wrote:A P.S. to my last post
I think werewolves useing guns and blades is stupid. Werewolves are creatures of nature, they have natural weapons, they do not need to make or use weapons, man does thats why he makes them, we are soft pink meals that happen to walk around untill we get served.
Men have a desire to affect things far away from them, hence the remote, guns, long range communitation devices we think that gives us power. Werewolves wouldnt have that line of thinking, all weapons are extensions of the human body or will, a werewolf has no desire to kill from a distance, if he cant get to the corpse then he cant eat it when he is done.
just my 3 cents
Well, I'm not sure this is the image the filmmakers are going with for their werewolves in Freeborn. There are a LOT of differing theories on werewolves in stories, film, and old myths. And who's to say only one should be used (variety is the spice o' life, hehe). Hope I'm not treading on your toes here, it's not my intention (apologies if I am).

As for the creature of nature argument - if the being is half-wolf, half-human (roughly), why should they suddenly become a force of nature if they weren't before? Frankly if I was used to fighting with weapons (in my case I'm more familiar with arnis canes than, say, an Uzi or a katana), I'd feel more comfortable with them than having to use the unfamiliar method of biting.

Action!

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:28 am
by Scott Gardener
Do they fight in spurts of slow-motion, with techno music playing and debris flying around cinematically, with things exploding around them?

Re: Action!

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 9:52 am
by Shadow Wulf
Scott Gardener wrote:Do they fight in spurts of slow-motion, with techno music playing and debris flying around cinematically, with things exploding around them?
Werewolf:RELOADED: Werewolf starts dodging bullets swooosh.

Wereolf says: I ...am ...the chosen one. 8)

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:31 pm
by stiltbeast
As for the creature of nature argument - if the being is half-wolf, half-human (roughly), why should they suddenly become a force of nature if they weren't before? Frankly if I was used to fighting with weapons (in my case I'm more familiar with arnis canes than, say, an Uzi or a katana), I'd feel more comfortable with them than having to use the unfamiliar method of biting.
thats not exactly true due to your first sentence, half wolf, half human. Since men can and have bitten each other in a fight (just ask mike tyson) it is a weapon in mans arsenol. in a wolves arsonal it is %100 of the physical attacks. so based on math more than 50% of any given werewolfs combat arsenal is biteing. Having an arnis cane in your hand as a human makes you more comfortable, because it increases your power and speed. to a werewolf it wouldnt make that much difference a clawed hand hitting with the same force would do more damage, unless the stick is aimed to break bone, but since half of you (the wolf half) wants to kill him, then the clawed hand would feel more comfortable.
I wil clarify this by sawing that my view on WW intelligence is that it is a mix of wolf and man, not smart as a human but very clever for a wolf. If a WW has all the intelect and skill of the human he was before then he would fight in much the same as a human at first, then he would learn what weapons are bettr than his natural attacks and possibly.......posibly use those weapons. But I still thuink he would only fight to kill and feed, so he wouldnt need weapons.
Does that make sense?

Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:51 pm
by hydrocarbon

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:41 pm
by werewolf2668
Sorry to dig up this old thread.

I'm don't know the details of Kalindo, but fighting with a slashing weapon i.e. claws would be similar to swordsmanship. Sword fighting is immensely diverse in style, but they share many principals. Fighting with a blade gives you several zones, with an optimum radius for striking. Moving so that you can strike your opponent from the best position while they are either unable to strike (off-balanced, turned) or out of their optimum radius gives you a win. Lots of feinting, parries, sidestepping etc.

You could use a slashing style of swordfighting as a model.

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:52 pm
by JoshuaMadoc
[Fighting styles without weapons that are possible to do as a WW]:

- Kickboxing
- Muay Thai (flying knees and elbows baybee)
- Basic Karate

- Pencak Silat; The Pencak Silat i've been taught for a short time has very little requirements and only requires you to find your own style. As a WW, this doesn't just mean your style is Wolf style. Rooster, Snake, Tiger, Monkey, all the other animal styles and Dragon are possible. If i remember correctly, the animal style is usually confirmed by one's personality. I don't think the mainstream Pencak Silat foreigners know would be easy to adapt to as a WW.

- Basic street brawling

[Fighting styles somewhat possible to do as a WW]:

- Pankratium Wrestling
- Aikido
- Judo
- Hapkido
- Kung Fu (Take a look at Jon Talbain from Darkstalkers. But games aside, i'm sure that it won't be hard for WWs to adapt kung fu with the right application of training, though it may be time-consuming.)

- Tai Chi; not sure about this one.

- Sambo
- Wrestling
- Vale Tudo
- Ba Gua Zhang
- Jeet Kune Do

- Drunken kung fu; it'd take a bit of a while to adapt.
- Jiu Jitsu and Brazillian/Gracie Jiu Jitsu
- Kenpo
- Ninjitsu

[Fighting styles that needs to meet certain requirements and would need refinement as a WW]:

- Capoeira; a WW would need to know when not to "tangle" oneself waist down.

- Modern or Ancient greek boxing; If a WW doesn't have retractable claws, they would need to trim it bald so that they wouldn't stab the hands. Also leg balance training would have to apply so that WWs wouldn't lose their balace when boxing. If it's the fight-for-your-life boxing, you're free to use your legs, and mid-air punches are executable.

- Tae Kwon Do; Digitigrade legs would render the axe kick that focuses on the heels useless. UNLESS. Unless if the WW would train on using the axe kick effectively by (possibly) using the whole leg knee down for the damage dealing. If one of my speculations are right, a WWs digitigrade leg would increase the axe kick range, though i'm not certain by how much, and training for foot durability would be a strict requirement to prevent any broken WW feet when doing the axe kick. Axe kicks when used by a WW is possible when the balls of the feet, or should i say, the paws of the feet, are used, though the amount of training for this case varies. WW foot training could also help improve their kicks overall. High kick, low, middle, roundhouse, hook kicks, those kicks. There's one type of TKD kick a Rookie WW could definitely use, but i'll have to illustrate that for you all to see if you don't know what it is (it's the kick that's done by pushing the feet to the target, sorta like a "pierce" kick. Dunno what it's called). Rookie to Grand Master WW Tae Kwon Do artists COULD rely on their claws for damage, but...... I think the foot claws are used more as a last resort. Oh, and work on the boxing. Old Tae Kwon Do also incorporates punching, unlike mainstream Tae Kwon Do.

- Kalaripayit; i honestly have NO idea where to start with this one. From what i last read, it's basically Indian kung fu, and it looks very difficult to adapt as a WW. I'll need to research more on this art later on.

For WWs who don't know any martial arts whatsoever............ should definitely take up one ASAP. There'd be no knowing when another WW would show up and kick your a** with Muay Thai, or when you're dealing with a bloody strong human.


That about sums it up from my corner. I'm not the best martial arts expert to come to, but i sure am a junkie. Maybe this oughta come in handy for storywriters writing a werewolf story with werewolves pulling off Tae Kwon Do or somethin', but i totally recommend expert opinions and rigorous research, which is exactly what i'm doing right now for my story.

Cheers.

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:01 pm
by vrikasatma
Wow...that was thorough...

On Kailindo: One night after a WW:tA game, we sat down and tried to figure out exactly what Kailindo would be like. I suggested fast Tai Chi as a starting point, and one of the other players added that Dog-Style Kung Fu would be another strong possibility. We agreed that Kailindo would — in our game — look a lot like fast Tai Chi combined with Dog Kung Fu. (I also heard a hypothesis that the word "kailindo" would translate as "Way of the Triumphant Forest," and not "Kai Lin's Way" as it wound up being entered into the canon. Personally I prefer "Way of the Triumphant Forest")

Werewolf versus human: In my stories, the werewolves generally *don't* fight humans, at least one-on-one. The general attitude is that a werewolf fighting a human is...unsporting at best and undignified at worst. The usual physical confrontation is: Werewolf just takes a backhand swing at the human, human flies into the nearest solid vertical surface, SMACK!, human slides down wall to the ground seeing stars and Saturns whirling around his head while the Werewolf walks disdainfully away. Possibly throwing an "End of debate" over his shoulder.
Group of humans vs. Werewolf pack: Different story. Pack finds strategically-effective position, pack alpha or warleader says "Give 'em the works, guys" and there ensues a Donnybrook for the record books (my WWs have elemental/natural magic).

Gestalt vs. Gestalt: Did anyone notice that the bipedal stance is REALLY REALLY vulnerable from a predatory/pugilistic point of view? Heart, lungs, liver, major pipeline artery, femoral arteries, genitalia, lots of nerves, all wide open. Oryx antelope and pigs grow a subdermal layer of, essentially, cartileginous Kevlar over their shoulders, ribcages and necks, but that doesn't protect against slashing and anyone who's taken a forearm smash to the liver or kidneys knows that even a solid bludgeoning blow can be a crippler. If I were in a Gestalt-Gestalt fight, I'd shift to Wolf real fast and get their femoral artery.
Note: a punch can kill and do serious injury. Watch "Sea Biscuit" — Red Pollard, the jockey, was a boxer and took three punches to his right eye and was blind on that side.

Wolf vs. Wolf: Here's where the action is. Wolves do use their claws in a fight sometimes, usually a slashing punch with the forepaw (risk getting the metacarpals bitten, which for a hunter would be a death sentence), or a cat-kick with the hind legs if pinned to the ground. I've also heard of some wolf species that use mosh pit-like maneuvers like shoulderbutts and hip-slamming. I imagine wolf-wolf form fights between packmates would be a lot like siblings wrassling and scrapping, with the emphasis being on pinning, blunt-force blows and the like.
In territorial disputes between two different packs and dominance battles between WWs that just won't give quarter, the action would be *awful*. High confidence of a body count and incidence of casualties. Someone's gonna lose something, be it a sense, a body part or their life.
And I hate to say it, but wolves bully their own, too. I cite the Omega; Daniel P. Mannix used the term "the varlet" in his book "The Wolves of Paris." Then again, an Omega getting savaged by the rest of the pack isn't really a fight, it's a mugging...

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:06 pm
by JoshuaMadoc
vrikasatma wrote:Wow...that was thorough...
Call it an impulse. :D

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:45 am
by Morkulv
Capoeira?! OMFG! :lol:

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 1:52 pm
by Ratha
As stated before, it should depend on the individual situation and the individual 'wolf.

If I were a 'wolf, I at least would have a few tactics developed.

For a full-blown werewolf vs. an antagonistic human w/ or w/o a weapon:
Just kill it. Mighty, mighty werewolves! A gun or projectile weapon would pose enough of a threat to warrant a cautious aproach and/or a pretend-to-flee-and-plan-an-ambush-or-trap-thingey. Any kind of killing instinct a 'wolf would have would get it to the throat to suffocate or rip the juggular. A human's killing instinct when unarmed is to pummel or strangle. I would pummel with my cinderblock fists. :evil:

For a full 'wolf vs. another full 'wolf:
Wolf behaviors, like circling and growling, would be observed. Unique, recombinant behaviors, like rearing, roaring, clawing and kicking out to the sides, would be introduced. Human behaviors, like punching, threatening, taunting, and using classic diversionary tactics like fack lunges, would be used if the smart 'wolf saw use of it.

For a 'wolf vs. an unsuspecting human target:
Break the neck. Quick, easy, and simple.

A move I like a lot is that scene in Lion King when Scar lunges at Simba from the fire and Simba just kicks him over his head and off the rock.
More complicated than neccessary, but still cool if there's only one 'wolf, 'cause it'll open you up for attack.

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:49 pm
by celtwolf
well i can't say i know much on the subject of any actual fighting, but i can extrapolate on what i do know about various forms of martial arts.

personally, i think that the majority of werewolves would fight following instinct alone, as chances are they would have little or no formal training in any martial arts. and any changed werewolves would probably fight similarly to how they would as a human, punching and kicking and such, though admittedly adapted to their werewolf form, probably with biting added to the mix.

as for trained werewolves, there would be many possable adaptations of various styles and forms as noted by kitetsu. personally, i think any trained werewolf would naturally be trained in a form that suites their personality. a fluid style that uses opponents' force for a calm and easygoing personality, a violent and strong style for a hotheaded and forthright personality. that sort of thing.

as for kung fu, i'd supose the werewolf anatomy in gestalt form would have an advantage with a ground style, where one stays close to the ground as to keep better balance and have more leverage in attacks. with their anatomy closer to that of a wolf, being on four legs would be easy and feel more natural, allowing for them to focus more on their attack rather than staying on balance.

though, i still think that a the average werewolf would be either minimally trained or completely without any formal training in martial arts, so i'd say MAYBE stick in ONE werewolf with formal trainingin a martial art, rather than have everyone know kung fu and turn this movie into a super werewolf kung fu movie (though that WOULD be cool).

as i said, i don't really know much about martial arts, but i hope that this might help everyone! :)

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:45 pm
by Timber-WoIf
A thing to remember about martial arts: Its one thing to train and practice it, its completly another to actually use it.

I really don't see any werewolf using any specific martial arts fighting style in a life-or-death situation, especially because in real life nobody does. Yes, the training would help some, but the largest factor in any fight is applicable experience. Martial arts do develop a warrior mentally, but you'll never see anyone doing kung-fu when their trying to kill. One-on-one fights rarely last over a few seconds, and are usually decided by the first couple blows.

yes indeed, a werewolf would be more apt to use brutal, KISS simple strikes, focusing only on one thing: killing the other guy. Bashing, clawing, biting, etc. (slashing and kicking, not so much. to elaborate).
Also, i doubt they would use most melee type weapos. so no knives, swords, axes, batons, sashes, etc.

I doubt, however, that any sentient werewolf would shy away from using a firearm. Of course they wouldn't try to shoot out a melee fight, (neither do modern soldiers) A wolf with nothing but his claws and jaws = meat if faced with firearms. Its nice to be able to kill things without haveing to get on top of them.

As for tactics - the same as any normal humans. werewolves have the same basic attack meathods as any normal human, only slightly more effective in hand to hand. But if the werewolf wins a battle without thinkig, then he was probibly attacking 55-year-old Farmer Brown and his rusty, breach loaded shotgun. Or defenseless couples taking a late-night stroll through the park. But any armed and able human would be a problem to an empty-minded wolf. A trained soldier would be a significant threat. And an opponent at the level of a, o, expirienced SEAL, could KIA a reckless werewolf even in hand-to-hand. (assumming no uber-werewolf) However, so long as the werewolf remembers to THINK while it fights; no mindless, instictual charging, pouncing, mauling; no turning thier snouts at pistols and rifles in favor of thier claws, then they will be dominant in most of thier fights.

so to sum up:
-no overt kung-fu (or any other martial-artsy stuff)
-mostly quick clawing and pounding in hand-to-hand, biting mosly to finish off pinned opponents.
-no melee weapons
-(smart/alive wolves) not picky about carrying/using guns/explosives
-(smart/alive wolves) not mindless in combat
-resists instictual impuses when fighting (not always sucessfully)

:havocwolf: :gdiwolf:

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:28 pm
by Renorei
I don't think a werewolf would use any particular fighting style in hand-to-hand combat. None of these fighting styles really take advantage of a werewolf's natural abilities.

The way I see it, a werewolf who is using a particular fighting style that was designed by humans would be defeating the purpose of being a werewolf.

Martial arts are cool if you have no natural weapons (like humans). But a werewolf is a walking bundle of muscle, teeth, and claws. They probably wouldn't fight anything like us. They would probably fight in such a way as to take advantage of the natural gifts that being a werewolf affords.

Basically, IMO, any fighting style that a human could replicate easily is totally inappropriate for a werewolf.

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:23 am
by Shadow Wulf
I couldnt have said it any better myself Renorei. I think a werewolf fighting style should be fairly primitive.

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:19 am
by Curan
Shadow Wulf wrote:I couldnt have said it any better myself Renorei. I think a werewolf fighting style should be fairly primitive.
Why should a werewolf fighting style has to be primitiv?
I think the complexity of a fighting style depends on the degree of intelligence. So we come to these following questions: What kind of beast is a werewolf in your eyes and how do they live? Is it a mindless beast only acting according to its instincts or is it an intelligent being which is planing its deeds and is able to improve its abilities by increasing the grade of perfection of its techniques? Are they living alone, strictly be apart from each other?

My werewolves are as intelligent as humans and they live together in packs. Thus, they have the same abilities as humans to build cultures, myths and even civilizations.
The existence of culture and performing of fighting styles are two parts which are inseperable from each other. But the fighting techniques have to match the biomechanics of a werewolf body, too, which are depending on the transformation grade (being in gestalt or in full wolf form).

There are a lot of human fighting technniques which could be adapted for a werewolf fighting style such as tiger style and eagle style for those in gestalt form. These techniques are the best match for the use of the werewolves' sharp claws. Heavy hits whith knuckles of their paws are possible either.
Roundkicks could be a match for the claws of their hintlegs and so on ...

In full wolf form they could fight like big cats such as tigers, lions, pumas, leopards and jaguars.

The werwolves' fighting styles has to be offensive, powerful and brutal ones which consist of a set of defensive techniques besides the offensive ones either.

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:53 am
by Shadow Wulf
Well yeah they should have a fighting style, but I said it should be fairly primitive, like the movement won't be as graceful as that of a humans karate.

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:30 am
by Curan
Have you already watched a cat fight or a tigerfight? Did you see the lissomeness in their powerful movements? To watch it is awesome. This lissomeness and the extraordinaray effect is the reason why buddhistic monks adapted it to form an efficient fighting style.

The movements in a wolf's / dog's fight is of another kind but they are flexible and graceful, too.

Why shoulden't a werewolf be able to do floating movements like it's shown in Aikido?

In fact when I see Steven Seagal fighting in his films I often think "Yaeh, that could be the way a werewolf fights. Very fast, very cruel and very efficient.

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:06 am
by Shadow Wulf
Well have you asked yourself this? How well can a werewolf do a kick and peform some attacks with digrated legs when standing upright? The legs haves to give them SOME kind of restriction.