Alternative Shapeshifters

This is the place for discussion and voting on various aspects of werewolf life, social ideas, physical appearance, etc. Also a place to vote on how a werewolf should look.
Vuldari
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Alternative Shapeshifters

Post by Vuldari »

This is a Thread inspired by conversations started in the "Partial Transformations" thread, and is intended as a companion thought to my "Werewolves...Pitiful?" Rant.



One point where I find that others have not yet grasped or caught on to about my perspective on Werewolves and their role in popular fiction, is that I feel that a "Lycanthrope" is a very specific variety of metamorph...one which conforms to a certain range of criteria which I have covered extensively in other conversations, BUT I have always maintained in the back of my mind that there is not only room, but an essential NEED for a completely different category of animal based metamorphs...and that off-shoot/sub-genre is one that I know I would, (and in many ways already am) a great FAN of.

Many, for many years now, have been trying to Hijack the Genre of "Werewolves" and re-mold it into this alternate interpretation...but in the process, many of those same people have been trying to KILL the old werewolf and replace it with their own.

*Ahem*...I just happen to LIKE the old classical, (and Vintage Hollywood too), Werewolves as they are/were, thankyouverymuch.


Why is there not room for BOTH? Why must you destroy one to make room for the other?


At the moment, the name I have chosen to identify this OTHER kind of Shapeshifter is "Transmorphic Therians".
(Though, it is likely that someone could come up with a better name for them)
[Edit: That word sounded stupid, so I've replaced it with "Shapeshifter".]

Although I had not given a name to them before, as proof of how open and generally FOND of this concept I am, this whole idea is an integral part of the universe of my In-Progress comic 'Pack MENTAL(ity)', in which there are Werewolves...but then there are also other shapeshifters too which can be nearly ANY animal one could imagine.

...including...

[Edit: I shrunk down the following example because it is stupid, and I'm not seriously suggesting that we use it any more, but the text is still there if you really want to read it, either by copy and pasting it, or by hitting the "Quote" button and reading it from there.
I wrote:"Lycanthrope" vs 'Shapeshifting Therian Wolf'

Common Traits

* Transforms Between Human and Wolf/Wolflike Bodies. Can take form of feral Wolf or Anthro/Gestalt and in some cases, BOTH.

* Can feel the influence of Wolf Instincts even in Human Form.

* Is able to learn how to trigger transformations AT-WILL, with sufficient practice/training.




Variant Traits

* Werewolf Transformations are always significantly painful, and VERY difficult to control, and can be easily triggered against the Lycanthropes will by certain stimuli, such as anger, fear, danger, or the phase of the moon.

* Although initially EXTREMELY difficult to learn how to Control, once a Shapeshifting Wolf Therian learns how to initiate their transformation, they have COMPLETE control, and it is very rare for them to ever, excluding special cases, lose control and shift or act involuntarily after control is learned. The transformation, however, may be random when it first awakens, until control is achieved. It is also quite rare for Therian Shifts to ever be significantly painful, and are commonly described as quite exhilarating and and even desirable.


* Shapeshifting Wolf Therians, if dedicated enough to learn even GREATER focus, are able to shift to varying stages in between their primary forms, as they wish, and can even shift individual body parts, such as a hand or an ear or a claw, without changing the rest of their bodies, though this is considered extraordinary.


* Given enough focus, self-control and super-human Willpower, a Lycanthrope is ALSO capable of partial shifts, but the practice is rarely attempted, and not recommended, as calling upon the beast within, for whatever reason almost always leads to it being called out entirely, and the risk is not worth the effort for most.


* Lycanthropes have unclear, but well known adverse/beneficial reactions to excessive contact with Wolfs-bane/(Monkshood), Silver, and other stimuli, such as Moonlight and Lunar rock/dust.


* Shapeshifting Wolf Therians experience no significant, unusual reaction to these stimuli, including any physical reaction to things of Lunar origin, though it has cultural and psychological significance to some.


* A Werewolf is famous for behaving in a wild, beastly manner when transformed. Though the EVIL "Bloodthirstiness" of a Lycanthrope has been greatly exaggerated in the telling of legends over the years, it is no myth that a transformed werewolf is a VERY Dangerous and unpredictable creature, whose primal instincts frequently overpower the more civil will and judgment of the Human host.


* The power and influence of the Primal Wolf spirit within a Morphic Wolf Therian upon their personality and behavior, varies greatly from individual to individual. Some are completely civil and show no behavioral signs of their inner beast at all, (at least to the untrained eye), while others have been known to embrace, or be overcome by the Wolf within to such a degree that they go completely Feral, and live entirely as a Wolf...and every degree in-between.


* Most forms of "Lycanthropy" are a Transferable condition, and are passed on from Human to Human, (or even Wolf to Human), via a deep bite or scratch, direct contact through vital bodily fluids, (such as blood), or paternal heritage. Other forms of Lycanthropy are contracted through Magic.


* Theriantropy, in almost all forms, is a born state. With the exception of possibly Spirit-Guide 'Possession', (though this is debatable), a Therian, metamorphic or purely spiritual, is born as such, and that state can not be transfered to another in any way. However, it is not unlikely that contact with other Shapeshifting Therians could possibly awaken the sleeping Shapeshifting abilities within a dormant, non-shapeshifting Therian.

...I could go On and On...
Werewolves are werewolves, but I can still see a full range of distinct varieties within the creatures mythology, from the Demonic, to the Cursed, to the Malevolent/Benevolent guardian, to the Humanoid 'WolfMan', to the Tailless Feral beast, to the Gestalt of popular modern fiction and many others. There are plenty of ways to see them, and I can even see multiple versions of them existing within the same universe.

Likewise, the possibilities with other varieties of shapeshifters is simply MIND BOGGLING! When using the concept of Theriantropy as the basis and origin of a completely separate class of shapeshifters, it opens the possibility of literally ANY animal form manifesting itself. The Son of a Tiger Therian and a Hawk Therian could be a Turtle, or Wolf, or Emu Therian...or not even a Therian at all. ...while another with no contact with, or heritage of any kind with Werewolves, or other metamorphic beings or any kind could awaken out of the blue as a Shapeshifting Therian Jaguarundi.

I think this concept would be much more appealing to explore for many of us, without the need to EXTERMINATE the traditional Werewolf from popular media, and fan-fiction. I think this is what many have been getting at to begin with, but simply calling by the name "WEREWOLF", instead of giving it it's own.


...and why even stop at just "Werewolves" and "Therians"? There are PLENTY of legends around the world about many different kinds of shapeshifters which have no relation to werewolves or the concept of therantropy at all.

In my WIP comic 'Pack MENTAL(ity)', while much of the cast is made up of both traditional werewolves AND Shapeshifting Therians (or whatever I'm going to call them), my own character was neither bitten by a 'Were...' of any kind, nor is a Fox-Therian, but obtained his unusual transformation ability through a strange mixture of unlikely circumstances, including an unintended side-effect of unknowingly coming in contact with Kitsune magic.




Any thoughts or comments?... (on anything?) Image
Last edited by Vuldari on Wed May 16, 2007 3:59 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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Post by Kelpten »

Mmmmm, ya, I can see where you're going with this. Some of the classifications are debatable, but in general I think you did a good job in seperating them into two groups. I actually mentioned something similar in your previous rant, I think. After all, the shapeshifting myths vary significantly from contry to contry (such as the seducing weredolphins of South America). But if you want to keep the Europian/Hollywood werewolf alive I think that giving the other group a name would help. You might want to find something a little more consice though (I'm a lazy typist).
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Post by Vuldari »

Kelpten wrote:Mmmmm, ya, I can see where you're going with this. Some of the classifications are debatable, but in general I think you did a good job in seperating them into two groups. I actually mentioned something similar in your previous rant, I think. After all, the shapeshifting myths vary significantly from contry to contry (such as the seducing weredolphins of South America). But if you want to keep the Europian/Hollywood werewolf alive I think that giving the other group a name would help. You might want to find something a little more consice though (I'm a lazy typist).
Yeah, "Transmorphic Therian" does not exactly roll off the tongue. ...it was just the first thing that popped into my mind when I started this thread.

And who knows...it might have even been your comment that inspired me to write this anyway.


BTW: All of the above is just a theoretical example. The exact boundary lines and class definitions are certainly debatable and flexible, and none of this was intended to be set in stone. I was just typing it all as it ran through my mind, making it up as I go.
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Post by Kelpten »

Hmmm, but we might have a problem with our debates from now on if we split into two groups. One would be trying to describe one kind of shapeshifter while the other would try for a completely different version. I suppose this problem has already existed for a while, which is why you brought it up.

Edit: Spelling
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Post by Vuldari »

Kelpten wrote:Hmmm, but we might have a problem with our debates from now on if we split into two groups. One would be trying to describe one kind of shapeshifter while the other would try for a completely different version. I suppose this problem has already existed for a while, which is why you brought it up.

Edit: Spelling
Exactly. I have noticed two distinct schools of thought on what Pack Members want werewolves to be for a long time, and though I have suggested before that not all beings that can transform between Wolf and Human need to be "Werewolves", I think this is the first time it has been seriously suggested that a clear distinction could/should be made.


I really feel like many of us have been talking about two significantly different classes of beings...one based on Myth, Legend and Folklore...and the other on Theriantropy.


I have always considered the two things to be Separate ... now I am suggesting that others should begin to separate the two in their minds as well.
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Post by Kelpten »

But what should the purpose of this forum be then? Will it be only for the traditional werewolf, the therian wolf, or both? Should we completely seperate the theads? ("What should a werewolf be?" and "What should a Therian be?") And what about all the topics we've already discussed? It seems that it's all hopelessly jumbled together, but perhaps that would make the best synthesis between the two anyway.
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Post by Vuldari »

Kelpten wrote:But what should the purpose of this forum be then? Will it be only for the traditional werewolf, the therian wolf, or both? Should we completely separate the threads? ("What should a werewolf be?" and "What should a Therian be?") And what about all the topics we've already discussed? It seems that it's all hopelessly jumbled together, but perhaps that would make the best synthesis between the two anyway.
BOTH, naturally.

We also talk about WereTigers, and Kitsunes, and Berzerkers, and all sorts of creatures that bear some similarity to werewolves ...or just are ALSO interesting to werewolf fans.


I'm just getting as tired of the growing insistence that, "Werewolves are Therians now...and all of the folklore that says otherwise is outdated , so we will complain every time you try to stick to it...so there", as much as the conversion from 'FEARED BEAST', to 'Cowering Puppy with social issues'.


I don't think it is too much to ask to simply clarify when one is talking about a different sort of creature, rather than continuing to insist that all of the old ideas are obsolete, and trying to get rid of them.


Honestly, if there WAS such a thing as a Shapeshifting Wolf Therian, I'm sure they would call themselves Werewolves whether I liked it or not...but is it really necessary to blend the two together and claim that EVERY werewolf legend EVER was actually based on 'Therian' Werewolves?


Look...not all of us here are Wolf Therians, (or Therians of any kind for that matter) and that notion is really starting to get on my nerves. Not all of us want everything to be based on Theriantropy...but I'm totally open to SOME things stemming from that. There is certainly a great deal of potential there.

(And yes, I know this does not apply to everyone here...it's just something I've been sensing in the flow that conversations seem to be taking.)
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Post by Set »

I would advise coming up with another name for them. Though I have to wonder, what's wrong with just calling them "shapeshifters"?

And you might want to rearrange that post a bit. It's somewhat hard to read.
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Post by Vuldari »

Set wrote:I would advise coming up with another name for them. Though I have to wonder, what's wrong with just calling them "shapeshifters"?

And you might want to rearrange that post a bit. It's somewhat hard to read.
I arranged it so it looks right on my screen, but I was afraid that it might look disjointed on someone else's screen if they are viewing at a lower resolution, or using a different forum skin...and based on your response, it sounds like that is true. I'll assort the two columns into one...that should fix it, I think.

...and yeah...they DEFINATELY need a better name...and I can't really think of any reason NOT to call them "Shapeshifters" except maybe to give them a name that is a little more specific.
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Post by RedEye »

Howzabout "Lupan Metamorphs"? That establishes what they are: Metamorphs, and their shape-base: Lupan, or Wolflike.

There could even be a category of Metamorphs: Therian Metamorphs; who shift their shape in accordance with 1> their inner anima-spirit, and 2> the laws of mass conservation...
What's interesting is that the majority of therians seem to stay within the Human-base weight limits...
That said, I just remembered a Bear therian that weighs maybe ninety-five pounds soaking wet...

Still, there are any numbers of possibilities... although I'm of the opinion that Werewolves aren't Therians by nature; just metamorphs.
If I'm wrong, and any Were's are not only Wulfen but Therian wolves as well...let me know. It's just that I have this image of a Werewolf/ Deer therian...talk about mental mixups...
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Post by Vuldari »

I used a WOLF Therian merely as an example. If being a special kind of Therian is all it takes to be a Shapeshifter, then I can see no reason why only WOLF therians would have that ability. Just about ANY animal could apply.

The term would then, likewise, not have specifically Wolven/Lupine words in it, but would be more general.

Unless maybe one is suggesting that Wolf Therians would become different kinds of Werewolves then normal people...in which case they would just be "Therian Werewolves"
...or ...'Lycanthians'?... ...err..'.Theri...Wolves'... ...naww...that doesn't sound right
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Post by Midnight »

Vuldari wrote:...err..'.Theri...Wolves'... ...naww...that doesn't sound right
Here a wolf, there a wolf, everywhere a wolf, wolf...





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Post by JoshuaMadoc »

Wikipedia, the friendly neighborhood LIAR wrote:Therianthropy is derived from the noun therianthrope, meaning part man and part beast, in turn derived from the Greek therion (Θηριον), meaning "wild animal" or "beast", and anthrōpos (ανθρωπος), meaning "man". Therianthropes have long existed in mythology, appearing in ancient cave drawings [1] and in ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs[citation needed]. The Inquisitions of the 16th century claimed to have documented therianthropy in mortals,[citation needed] specifically referring to lycanthropy, the state of being a werewolf.
So. "beastman" and "wolfman". Which one's better? Which one has more significance?
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Post by Kirk Hammett »

I'm just getting as tired of the growing insistence that, "Werewolves are Therians now...and all of the folklore that says otherwise is outdated , so we will complain every time you try to stick to it...so there"
Er..I guess I dont read much werewolf fiction online apart from Alpha Luna, but I was not aware of this...

Unless, you mean the children who are 'wolf therians' who call themselves 'lycans'. That annoys me! Therianthropes (Spiritual ones) are not werewolves.

--------------------------

I am a big fan of having far more than one kind of shifter in my stories. In fact, I invented my own species and breeds, and while the word were can be coined on them, they aren't really...but, it depends how you, as the writer, take the term werewolf. Mine are generally known as shapeshifters or the actual name I gave them for their species which is in my writings.

It depends on the story. For example I might differ a lot from your opinions up there, or might be similar. I have a lot of shifters of various animals.

My main species is very, very rare and is a species. It has nothing to do with a curse and they cannot transfer a bite. They are not blood thirsty unless the human is. Their physiology is very different (I'd rather not go into it. They have different inside physiology and everything). They have tails in human form which is really, because of the tail, only pseudo human. Their entire body system works differently in some parts and the same in others. They are by no means simply a typical mammal. They are a product of fantasy.

There are many other traits...they aren't forced to shift by the full moon, there is no way to turn another into one of them (any more than a lion can bite a dog and turn the dog into a lion!!).

I also have other species...for example this particular one can be many different animals and may not only have tails, and work on a science and magic basis although going too much into the science will bore most readers.

Other species may be curse werewolves, Kitsune type creatures, some species of feline cat shifter ... you get my drift...

I find it VERY boring to focus on only one species. I like a varied world, and I like more than just shifters in my world. I create a huge array of very odd animals and plants and everything in between! And it depends what the story is I am writing. I've never been one for cliche or common. While most of my stories don't survive because I bore so quickly. My writing talents aren't so great anymore, I don't aspire to be an author but I would love to write a book or comic or film. Unfortunately I just don't have the time but I have the universe and species there for me and may use them in various circumstances.

I just think that categorising anything is not a good idea, as you've said. It is always, ALWAYS, up to the writer to have his or her opinion in their way of writing. I've seen some eccentric shape shifters in books.

----

As for therians, some werewolf stories (Alpha Luna) use the term 'Therian' for the wolf form. I've always seen a therianthrope as just being a spiritual person but I guess you can definately use the term elsewhere, for it's meaning of beast man.

-----

Look, I have no idea what point I am trying to put across...but my main opinion is that I think people can use whatever term and whatever species they like in whatever novel or universe, old styled classic werewolves, old contemporary werewolves, and newer contemporary (Contemporary being film/hollywood both old and new if that makes sense). And I like your ideas. I really look forward to reading the comic. But I don't think I am going to pay any attention to what you call them! :D That is up to you as the writer.
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Post by Kelpten »

We don't really care what the neowerewolves are called, so much as we distinguish them from the "clasical" werewolf. And I think that Vuldari used therianthropy because most of the people who want the new werewolf seem to want to take the spiritual connection to the next level into phisical shifting.
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Post by Vuldari »

I'm not even entirely sure what I was getting at any more either.

All I know is that I felt that something was out of order around here, so I (metaphorically speaking) leaped out into the field like a referee, tossing flags into the air and blowing my whistle, and now that I have everyones attention wondering what all the fuss is about, (with both new threads), I'm hard pressed to explain myself, as it doesn't seem as clear anymore as it did a moment ago.


The Phonetic, literal/literary definition and translation of the Word "Werewolf" is: "Man-Wolf" ...a creature that is both human and wolf.

Likewise, the straight up, flat definition of "Theriantropy" is more or less the same: "Human and Animal" ...a symbiotic combination of both.


By such literal interpretations, some of us believe that all creatures that are a combination of 'Man' and 'Wolf' are "WEREWOLVES", and all manifested symbiosis of human and animal fall under the category of "THERIANTROPY".


However, there are certain associations and assumptions that were intended to be tied to creatures that go by the name "Werewolf", and the "Theriantropy" movement has it's own ideals, rules, standards and expectations that go along with anything that is deemed to apply to them.


I say...they are NOT all the same thing. The definitions are similar, but they have significantly different origins, purposes, attitudes and values associated with them.


There is NO reason for the Therians and Wolf lovers to keep being so stubborn about even allowing Werewolves to continue to be represented as "MONSTERS", if the fan/author/creator so chooses, or act almost as if they have been personally insulted if it is even suggested that any creature with the word 'WOLF' in it's name behave in any way that might give unfavorable impressions about the Lupine Species.


I don't like the Therian and Furry minded people and community seemingly claiming the WEREWOLF as a whole as their personal pet of sorts, behaving as if they can tell everyone else that their ideas and opinions are WRONG, because they don't match up with their own, (like the argument that recently arose about someone who DARED to suggest that Werewolves don't have tails).


It is just as out-of-line as MY OWN ranting about how all werewolves need to be chaotic and scary, (...My Bad...Image), which was sparked by the non-acceptance of that traditional idea by some others.



We all need to come to a compromise of some kind. I am willing to concede that Werewolves don't absolutely NEED to be such disturbingly frightening creatures, (Though I still prefer it), if it can also be agreed upon that MODERN werewolves don't need to conform strictly to Furry and Therian preferences* and ideals either.
(*IE: Brillo-Face forbidden, MUST have Tail, Not allowed to make good people act Evil, etc...)



Not only do I think that we should try to improve our overall acceptance of variant preferences and styles of Werewolf interpretations, (It's good...but it could be better...), but I also highly recommend, as I was trying to suggest in the beginning of this thread, that it might be in the best interest of many of us to consider exploring variant genres of shapeshifting people/creatures OUTSIDE of the confines of "Lycanthropy" alone.

...because I think some of us are not actually daydreaming about "Werewolves" at all, but merely something very similar, and rather than trying to CHANGE Werewolves into that, we could start fresh and create something entirely NEW.
(And No...they don't need to be the stupidly named things I made up as a rushed example)
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Post by Rhuen »

Zoanthropes: humans who assume a beastperson form by sheer will. Exist naturally and can only assume one best form, although each individual is different and even those related to each other may become different animal species.
(Bloody Roar versions)

this is an example to show that we can use just about any names we want for what ever variants on the theme we want.

The only problem is the classical names thanks to being used so much have aquired a frame of reference when we think of them.
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Post by Kelpten »

Vuldari wrote:We all need to come to a compromise of some kind. I am willing to concede that Werewolves don't absolutely NEED to be such disturbingly frightening creatures, (Though I still prefer it), if it can also be agreed upon that MODERN werewolves don't need to conform strictly to Furry and Therian preferences* and ideals either.
(*IE: Brillo-Face forbidden, MUST have Tail, Not allowed to make good people act Evil, etc...)
I"m a little confused. Are we trying to seperate the two ideas or merge them together? Or were you just trying to get us to recognize that two ideas had begun to manifest themselves? I wouldn't mind either way, though merging them together would be much harder (but fun too :D )
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Post by Vuldari »

Kelpten wrote:
Vuldari wrote:We all need to come to a compromise of some kind. I am willing to concede that Werewolves don't absolutely NEED to be such disturbingly frightening creatures, (Though I still prefer it), if it can also be agreed upon that MODERN werewolves don't need to conform strictly to Furry and Therian preferences* and ideals either.
(*IE: Brillo-Face forbidden, MUST have Tail, Not allowed to make good people act Evil, etc...)
I"m a little confused. Are we trying to seperate the two ideas or merge them together? Or were you just trying to get us to recognize that two ideas had begun to manifest themselves? I wouldn't mind either way, though merging them together would be much harder (but fun too :D )
Allow one to merge the two for their own purposes, if they so desire, without trying to force everyone else accept that fusion as the NEW Werewolf, (as in...a replacement for the old one), but merely a new variant.

...while also recognizing that two distinct schools of thought are manifesting themselves, and that some may prefer to keep the two separate rather than merging them, and/or establish the "New School" Werewolf as its own Sub-Genre, without stepping on the feet of fans of the OLD.
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Post by chubhound »

Now, this is the part that really confuses me about all this. The difference (if any) between a "werewolf" and a "therian shifter" (whatever the heck THAT is...no, really...I have NO idea what it is) just makes me start to zone out and go "huh.....?". I think what's throwing me off here is that every so often, I'm seeing stuff that seems to be saying, "if the change isn't forced, and it's not SUPER painful, and the person doesn't run out & devour helpless virgins, then it's not really a werewolf". I know that's not exactly what's being tossed around, but..... Maybe I'm misunderstanding the whole point. To me, a werewolf is like Ice Cream. You have vanilla, you have chocolate, there's strawberry, cookie dough, mint chocolate chip....what have you, but it's all still Ice Cream. Werewolves (to me anyway) are kind if the same. You have the Lon Cheney type, they AWIL type, the Underworld Lycans, the Garou (or Uratha, depending on which game line you're playing now), and all the others...but I still look at them all as just a different "flavor" of the term "Werewolf". The wolf from AWIL doesn't strike me as being "more" of a werewolf just because he's a "cursed" person with an agonizing transformation any more than White Wolf's Garou/Uratha seem like "less" of a werewolf simply because they can control their shifting and they have magic spirit powers. They're still werewolves. I'm hoping after a bit more digging on my part I'll at least be able to understand exatly what the heck a "therian" is. Cuz at the moment....I'm clueless. Just out of curiosity....has anyone else compared werewolves to ice cream before?
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Post by Rhuen »

The therionthrope thing means animal shapeshifters. Its used originally by Dungeons and Dragons as Lycanthropy means wolf man basically.

Its to include ALL animals.

However the way its used here seems to be the whole inhuman angle.

For example a person who must become a wolf, and looses some control or aspect of themselves is thought of more in the term werewolf
such as this guy.
Image

however someone who can change shape into the animal for yet retain full control overthemselves or only change parts of their bodies at will is thought of more in the more modern neo-furre yet still a shapeshifter sense such as this guy.
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Post by lupine »

Personally...Ice cream is not something that has readily sprung to mind on the werewolf subject :lol: :lol:

I totally agree with what your saying tho, Werewolves are a fantastic mythological creature, and surely then, they can be anything you fancy them to be. Tail or no tail, Vicious or civilized, they are pretty much pick and mix lck (mmmm now you got me started :lol: I love the jelly snakes and the raspberry flavour vampire teeth lck )
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Post by Vuldari »

chubhound wrote:(whatever the heck THAT is...no, really...I have NO idea what it is)
...nor would anyone expect you to know, since it was just something that I made up as an example...modeled after what I think alot of Therians would prefer a Werewolf to be, rather than what they always have been.

I wrote:Many, for many years now, have been trying to Hijack the Genre of "Werewolves" and re-mold it into this alternate interpretation...but in the process, many of those same people have been trying to KILL the old werewolf and replace it with their own.

*Ahem*...I just happen to LIKE the old classical, (and Vintage Hollywood too), Werewolves as they are/were, thankyouverymuch.

Why is there not room for BOTH? Why must you destroy one to make room for the other?

...

Werewolves are werewolves, but I can still see a full range of distinct varieties within the creatures mythology, from the Demonic, to the Cursed, to the Malevolent/Benevolent guardian, to the Humanoid 'WolfMan', to the Tailless Feral beast, to the Gestalt of popular modern fiction and many others. There are plenty of ways to see them, and I can even see multiple versions of them existing within the same universe.
I'm not saying that no one should be able to make their own kinds of werewolves if they want. What I am saying is, if you are going to make up something new, at least have the sight to realize that what you are making up IS new, and that some of us may not agree that it is SO MUCH BETTER than werewolves that deserve to be called "MONSTERS".

...and seriously consider realizing that whatever you are creating may not be best labeled as a WEREWOLF, but perhaps something else entirely. If you get too loose with what can count as being a Werewolf, pretty soon the word could become nearly meaningless.
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Post by Kelpten »

chubhound wrote:"therian shifter" (whatever the heck THAT is...no, really...I have NO idea what it is)
Wait, you do know what a regular therian is, right? On the off chance that you don't, I'll give it a try. Therianthropy, in one of it's uses, is what some people see as a spiritual connection to an animal. They may say that they have an animal soul within them or that they share some common traits, but it seems that they go above and beyond being a "fan" of the animal. What Vuldari was saying is that they've begun to push their beliefs over the traditional werewolf. He called this new werewolf therian shifter just to distinguish between the new and old.
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Post by RedEye »

Hmmm..Werewolf Ice Cream: you bite it, it bites back.... :lol:

Werewolves; are they Monsters? If they are a mutation away from a specific biological entity, then they are Monsters--medically, at least.

IMHO :lol: (shut up, consience) One would believe that there are both Monsterous and non-Monsterous Werewolves. I wish I had the reference, but I think GoldenWulfen did a Halloween bit about Werewolves: at the start they were Monsters-violent and destructive. By the end, they were sharing beer at a Halloween party and being friendly.
That, one believes, would be the basic form of the perception and actions of Werewolves: Generally Monsters, but with the capacity to become non Monsterous in certain situations.

Look at the first picture above, in Rhuen's post. Monster? If you just answered the door and saw that...you'd say Monster. If you then saw it's pup, half frozen and sick and it's trying to get inside where its warm? It gets worse: Suppose that behind it is its mate, also ill-or injured.
Sorry, but it gets harder to describe that picture as one of a Monster as I progress. Different, yes. Monsterous...I don't know.

Then again, that fellow might not have had his morning coffee yet...

So...can there be a creature that is frightening, but is not monsterous? Is the difference in your perceptions, or in its perceptions.
Perhaps it it a Monster because it awakens the Monster within all of us.

Vuldari, you seem to be seeking a singular definition, and I wonder if one can actually exist? I've made a couple of examples, and I suspect you can make more...Can we agree that a Werewolf is essentially Frightening? But not necessarily a Monster.
Let the action determine things, not the appearance.
Anyway, that's my take so far.
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