THE PACK Message Boards

As a filmmaker, I'm opposed to illegal downloading, not only because it takes moneyout of my pocket, but because who in the hell wants to watch a crummy, camcorder movie on his computer?? ICK??

I gotta see a movie on a nice big theater screen or on my home theater. I can't watch tv or movies any other way.

Personally I like buying them because you get all those extra features and I just like having the cover to look at. But if someone has a bootleg copy of something that I wouldnt pay to see in a theater I would probably watch it.

Sorry for the double post, guys. My friend read this and wanted to reply, but doesn't want to make an account.

1. it's free. well, i'm pretty sure that it is free. logically speaking, whether we download movies, music, etc., or not, we're still going to pay for our internet connection. that said, buying a movie or cd would add an additional cost to our monthy expense (we'd be paying for internet connection AND the movie). the downloader doesn't pay for the download of the movie, which can cost $15-$20...a significant amount if the lots of movies are downloded. so, in essence, the movie itself IS free, so the downloader does have that one going for them, even if it is a tad unorthodox.

2. totally agree. there really isn't much chattering in theatres, give or take a few people that have no respect whatsoever and scream "that's how you do!" at random moments in movies, but other than that, I've never had a problem with theatre chatterin. That's not a good reason to go out and steal a movie.

3. why would someone watch a crappy cam version? nuff said, that's just...wow

4. the quality on dvd rip and other high quality movie rips are original dvd-quality. so not all downloaded movies are bad quality. the cam versions, i agree, are not worth watching, especially on a HDTV. But free movies in original dvd quality is quite a bargain.

5. fo sho. most downloaders think that they're all in the clear, but more downloaders get caught than we think. there are entire organizations whose sole job is to catch internet pirates. the process to convict such pirates, may be quite shaky, because pirates, are only "sharing" files between computers. Until a clearer definition of what it means to share a file (and with whom to share it) such convictions may be off with a small fine. downloaders take risks and if they're caught, then there's gonna be lots of money to pay.

These are not my thoughts, so don't get mad at me

I'm against illegally downloading newer stuff... Unless it's something you know is going to suck. For example, if you want to make fun of an Uwe Boll movie with your friends, but don't want to pay for it because it's going to suck a** and everyone knows it, are you really going to feel bad about taking money out of this incompetent jackasses pocket? What about the people who made Eragon? Epic Movie?

As for taking money out of pockets... I don't think enough people are doing this to create a huge difference. People try to blame illegal downloading for movies in theaters not making much money, but I've seen people say that they'll wait for a movie to come out DVD, so I think that's more of a logical possibility than the problem having to do with illegal downloading. It's not going to be the downfall of cinema, I assure you.

If this post is incredibly incoherent, I'm sorry, I'm tired at the moment.

Like Moonkit already said i like to buy them too, cause you have all the extras, features, the cover and of cause a good Quality...i think if you really like a movie you can buy the DVD....and support the guys that made the movie...

keyword ILLEGAL. the simple fact is the people who put thier time, effort, and resources into making films etc. get ripped when everyone gets them from everyone else for free. its kinda like scanning copies of amusement park passes. the whole idea of provideing goods and sevices is that you get paid for them. dur.

Sometimes the only place you can get certain things is by acquiring a pirated version.

And depending on what it is, certain things are just too damn expensive to buy. Like Photoshop for example. I use a pirated version because I simply don't have the money to buy it. If you feel like shelling out a few hundred dollars and getting me a "legal" copy, by all means please do so. But if not, I'm going to continue to get what I can where I can, because I simply cannot afford it any other way.

You're pretty much getting to one of the reasons I pirate, Set. Too expensive.

I like to fiddle around my making websites and flash cartoons. But that Adobe software is like, 600 bucks each. Can a high school student afford that? Nooooo waaay. The only way I could get that kind of stuff is by pirating.

As for music and such, sometimes I only like one song on a CD or whatever, and I don't wanna fish out the money for the whole thing when I can get the one track for free. Now, I could get it off of the iTunes Music Store or something, but theres a few problems with that. One, I need a credit card for an account. Do I have one? No. Second, my dad knows that I pirate, and won't buy it because he knows I can download it.
*shrugs*

I don't pirate too much, but generally if I do, it'll be like a song off a CD, which spongypants mentioned, or something that isn't available in any other form. Abandonware (games that are no longer sold or even actively protected by their companies) isn't technically legal to download, but if the companies aren't making it available in some other form, then why should I feel morally obligated to leave it alone? Luckily, most abandonware is literally abandoned, and the companies probably won't give a s*** if you go after it. If they do, they speak up. I find these companies annoying, since they usually don't bother to make it available in any other way, they're just protecting a copyright to be anal.

Timber-Wolf wrote:the simple fact is the people who put thier time, effort, and resources into making films etc. get ripped when everyone gets them from everyone else for free

Not necessarily. The pirating audience is pretty small. Some, hell, maybe even a lot, might go see the film after liking the pirated version. What does this mean? It means that they liked it enough to think it deserved payment. If they had seen it once on the big screen, that doesn't necessarily mean that if they liked it they would see it again, because movies are too damned expensive nowadays. End result being the same for those who would profit off of it, and to be honest, if I were a filmmaker, I'd be more concerned with my films being enjoyed... Which would tie into the film making money, anyway, but really, making a good, well made movie should be the key goal. Movies that are completely money-driven tend to be mediocre.

I don't really care about piracy. Other people can just go and download their warez to their hearts content. But as a security-centric person, I'd rather not touch that stuff. How are you to know that you are downloading a legit pirated copy. If copy protection has been circumvented, are you sure that's all that has happened? Will that downloaded software act exactly like its off-the-shelf equivalent? Of course viruses do extend beyond applications like Photoshop and 3ds Max. It has been known that viruses can even embed themselves within multimedia files. Pirating always has its risks. Just take precautions to ensure the worst doesn't happen.

On a lighter note...

-"Don't Copy That Floppy!!!"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-Xfqkdh5Js4

The only "pirated" films I watch via the internet are the ones that you can't find on DVD anywhere. Lots of older cartoons and movies are extremely hard to find elsewhere.

psiguy wrote:How are you to know that you are downloading a legit pirated copy.

I like the irony in that phrase...

I try to buy legit stuff wherever possible (and it isn't easy, particularly with CDs... one I particularly wanted cost me over $50 second hand). Some stuff is simply not obtainable though... one of these years I'll have to figure out how to get some of my old LPs burned to CD so I can listen to them again.

I don't download (have a crap connection) and don't have much pirated stuff; most of what I do have is stuff other people have given me because they think I might be interested in it. Some of it I have been interested in, in which case I buy my own (legit) copies.

Personally I don't have much of an opinion on piracy (there are extremists on both sides who make themselves look very bad); what I do have a lot of opinion on is how corporate copyright holders lock creative works away from the public. I've thought for a long time that corporate (record or film company) copyright should be subject to a "use it or lose it" test. Make them available to the public, otherwise the copyright of a work reverts back to the creator who can then shop it around to whichever distributor will offer a decent deal.

MoonKit wrote:Personally I like buying them because you get all those extra features and I just like having the cover to look at. But if someone has a bootleg copy of something that I wouldnt pay to see in a theater I would probably watch it.

These are pretty much my exact reasons that moonkit said. I also like the satisfaction of having the official copy. it becomes more than just a burned cd that you will have mixed up in your other piles.

too expinsive.... i like that reason. Well, i've always thought those new Chargers looked preetty sic, but never considered owning one for that reason. But, i guess using that logic, i should be perfectly justified just jacking one.

Timber-WoIf wrote:too expinsive.... i like that reason. Well, i've always thought those new Chargers looked preetty sic, but never considered owning one for that reason. But, i guess using that logic, i should be perfectly justified just jacking one.

Well, that's a physical object. What you'd be doing would be more along the lines of stealing a DVD in the store.

However, I'm sure Set would gladly burn you a copy.

The difference being that if someone downloads a copy of something they can't afford, it's not like the creators are going to be earning or losing money either way. If you steal a physical object, like a car, someone does lose money. I personally don't condone either, but there is a difference.

general i don't pirate movies and anything else, ive actually only taken stuff illegal twice,
1. getting the old Rise of nations: T and P expansion since it was no long in stores(this was like 5 years since its was released
2. download a ton of Rammstein songs, why? because i cant find Rammstein in stores down in Florida(also my parents don't like the music)
but besides those 2 times i never illegally pirated anything and i don't like it

I pirate Windows. As much as I'd love to get an official copy and get updates and defence to make my pc last longer, my parents cant afford it and I dont have a job at the moment.

I'm opposed to piracy, but I'm also opposed to use of anti-piracy technology to prevent legitimate use, particularly long-term archival. I'm a big believer in saving information for future generations, and I fear that draconian copyright laws will get in the way of legitimate uses and ultimately destroy some great works.

A good example is the TV show "WKRP In Cincinatti." It's a sitcom set in a radio station, that aired in the early 1980s. Considered by many to be a masterpiece, fans have waited for years for the DVD release. But, it may never happen. The show featured clips and snippits of music from the time period, and getting royalties on every single song ever featured, even for a few seconds, is proving to be prohibitive.

Scott Gardener wrote:I'm opposed to piracy, but I'm also opposed to use of anti-piracy technology to prevent legitimate use, particularly long-term archival.

Yeah, I hate that too. I'm no fan of Digital Rights Management and Trusted Computing. Companies lock software and multimedia down because they are simply greedy. It doesn't keep honest people honest. The honest people were already honest to begin with. The pirates will still be cracking at the codes and be bypassing whatever walls have been put up.

Some light reading on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_computing

But, I can't endorse piracy per se. Legal music online has brought the price of music down substantially. I remember when, in the late 1980s, cassette singles cost $3 for two songs, and albums $10 each. Today, albums cost the same on iTunes, which adjusting for inflation is effectively half cost. Singles are even better, especially since you don't have to buy the same song twice just to get the new track on the back side.

There are three areas where I can see fudging and using illegal channels, though I'm not officially advocating or endorsing any of them:

1. Bootlegs: they're already illegal, and they're not going to be released by the record labels: There's a lot of music out there by great and obscure bands that was never released--mostly live concerts that were performed but never officially recorded; a fan or underground "entrepreneur" snuck in a tape recorder, and years later, something that would have been lost is archived. Hard for the record industry to gripe about losing money on something they're not selling. And, people who buy a bootleg of Led Zeppelin playing in 1971 probably already owns all the albums and the DVD of "The Song Remains the Same."

2. Legal recordings that are out-of-print: Again, hard for the record industry to gripe about losing money on something they're not selling. Unless they intend to re-release, then this becomes strictly a control issue. People who steal this kind of music can also atone by buying the legal release when it comes out. There's a lot of great music you can't buy anywhere new. Granted, eBay has a lot of it available legally.

3. Music you already own, but in an aging format: I believe you should buy the music once, but I can see the logic behind asking why I would have to buy The Cult's song "Li'l Devil" for the 37th time if I've got the LP of the album Electric, the LP single, the album on a cassette that broke, the album again on another cassette that was given to a friend when I got the CD, the same said CD, three more copies of the song on CD singles and compilations, and an AAC version on the iTunes digital "boxed set" The Complete Works of The Cult Except for About Half a Dozen "She Sells Sanctuary" Remixes. But, there's always the guy who will find a $1 8-track of an album at a garage sale and then try to justify stealing the painstakingly remastered 5.1 channel version.[/i]

Scott Gardener wrote:Granted, eBay has a lot of it available legally.

Yeah, and there's no problem with wanting a real version of something. However, buying something used doesn't pay the original creators at all, and really, when I buy something good I want the originators to benefit (if they deserve it). I'd prefer an original, but I don't feel companies have any reason to be upset with the pirating of something that they're no longer selling something. Many are, but really, they shouldn't be.

ravaged_warrior wrote:

Scott Gardener wrote:Granted, eBay has a lot of it available legally.

Yeah, and there's no problem with wanting a real version of something. However, buying something used doesn't pay the original creators at all, and really, when I buy something good I want the originators to benefit (if they deserve it). I'd prefer an original, but I don't feel companies have any reason to be upset with the pirating of something that they're no longer selling something. Many are, but really, they shouldn't be.

Agree with that 100%... A few months back I picked up an old out of print Verlaines album for... well, more than it would have cost new... off Trade Me (the local version of Ebay). And Graeme Downes wouldn't have seen a cent of that; if there was any justice in the world, it would have still been available new and he'd have got his cut.

Regardless of how you really don't see the effect of what you're doing, I mean, you don't see anyone getting hurt by this, it IS technically stealing. I just don't do it because i don't want to feel like some poor-a**-gutter-monkey who can't even afford to pay for a movie. That, and I don't want to feel like a criminal.