Individuality

[cumulusprotagonist]

I am fairly certain that even natural wolves (and other animals) have individuality at the very least on some level.
It kind of sounds like some people think becoming a werewolf would take some of this away.
I am reading a subconscious thought pattern or message (it is hard to explain).

In any case, I do not believe becoming a werewolf would take away someone's ability to make the right choices. One could argue that it may make it harder but I really do not think this would necessarily be true. It all depends on the individual.

It feels like the individuality is sucked out of a lot of conversations...It might just be me.

(BTW being a member of a "pack" does not take away someone's individuality it just creates responsibility.)

I just wonder if this subconscious pattern means anything...

[Set]

Once again Cumulus, I have no idea what you're blathering about.

What exactly are you seeing that led you to this conclusion?

[cumulusprotagonist]

Something that can not be easily described in words.

Unintentionaly ignoring individuality when discussing a group of people (fictional or not).
Questions like should werewolves be educated seems controlling and a little too general (once again fictional or not).
Although this aspect is subconscious.

[Ceekur]

It feels like the individuality is sucked out of a lot of conversations...It might just be me.

What conversations, specifically? Ours or just in general?

I can't really say anything for individuality in animals, as I've never looked into it, but I'm sure werewolves would have some aspect of it. Werewolves still have parts of their human side in them and, if we can say that they aren't crazed monsters in their wolf form, I'm sure they have enough personality and understanding to have individuality as well.

[wolf4life]

sorry cumulus but.....what??????

please explain...

[cumulusprotagonist]

You would not ask if an African American needs education would you?
You would not do this because of what has happened in history.
Because it would be viewed as racist, people would think you are generalizing another race.

But people still ask questions like this when there is no history or conflict. No ill will is meant by it and it may not even be meant as a generalization.
But these generalizations can suck the individuality out of the people you are speaking of.

The conversation in the example above seemed to suck the individuality out of werewolves.

[wolf4life]

ummm....





*uses brain power*

i think i dont know but may get something...


your saying that some people think that becoming a werewolf would take away part of their individuality but it really wouldnt take their individuality away but may make it harder to make right choices and not do what the pack thinks all the time????

did i just have a thought!

well if thats the case then becoming a werewolf pretty much adds more individuality doesnt it? I mean then you would be pretty much on your own and individuality wouldnt be much of a key matter in your life anymore...it would be surviving and hiding your secret while trying to live partly in a human world and also surviving in the wild world...which then individuality...is pretty much your life....

i just confused myself....wait wait.....no....i think i understand what i said

[cumulusprotagonist]

And a thousand years later man discovered the meaning of life and all the answers of the universe in this very forum...

[wolf4life]

ummm sorry but what???



I KNOW THE ANSWER TO LIFE! well...to my version of whatever it may be

[Terastas]

It's not that people lose their individuality when they become werewolves, but another result of the werewolf's need for anonymity: in order to preserve their own existence, they would need to keep tabs on all the other nearby werewolves to make sure they don't do anything risky; it is in the best interests of all werewolves to work together as a pack regardless of any individual differences they may share.

It isn't really fair, however, to compare werewolves to black people because black people don't need to keep their own existence a secret from the rest of the world.

It was worth asking if werewolves would educate themselves because they have that risk of exposure to consider: would they be risking exposure by attending classes with 20+ pureblooded humans of indeterminable personality, or would they be betraying their existence by letting themselves fall behind on the times?

[wolf4life]

1. i thought this was individuallity not education and 2. if you were a werewolf....then you could probably come up with a real consumption

[Terastas]

1. i thought this was individuallity not education

It is, but Cumulus used our education thread as an example, so I responded to it.

The point I was trying to make is that werewolves should be individuals, but that need for anonymity would push them into a "pack" lifestyle.

[wolf4life]

ehh...if i was ever to become a werewolf....which i should and want to! i would probably stay a lone wolf....or COME OUT! (no laughing...i dont mean out of the closet!) I mean geez...so they will probably try and kill me or try and test on me or something...do you think i will let them? NO!

[cumulusprotagonist]

I was not comparing werewolves to black people.
I was speaking of the subconcious use of generalizations.
I brought up African Americans to say that regardless of the history and regardless of the circumstances it is still the choice of the individual.
This being said I was trying to say that this does not seem to be mentioned enough.
Individuality is taken for granted and does not seem to frequent conversations enough.
It seems to be sucked out.

[wolf4life]

im individual no matter what people say!

[RedEye]

Smooths (Humans) are beings with complex personalities, which embody myriads of contradictions to generate a coherent whole.
Wolves are beings that also have complex personalities; and observation would indicate they are as complex as many humans in interactions between themselves in the Pack context.
Werewolves combine these two mindsets unless they are of the "Mindless Monster" persuasion. Even Skinwalkers ( the movie) demonstrated this.
I suspect that a Were' would be just as complex as anyone else; although there would be a different focus in their minds and personalities. They would combine the Smoothskin mentality with the Wolf mentality to produce a new and original mentality specific to the Werewolf.
Would they be as deep as a Human? Very likely...but in very different directions, with very different social and interactive protocols.
In short, they'd be like us, but different.

[wolf4life]

hmmm...i dont get seen as smart or deep minded to anyone when i really am... *sigh* talk about your average wolf...

[PariahPoet]

You are right, wolves certainly do have individual personalities! Moreso than any domestic animals. They are as different from one another as humans are. From what Igather, I think what you mean comes back to the general consensus that whatever you are as a human, so you are as a wolf.

[wolf4life]

well wouldnt everyone asume that every different person and animal has there own thinking...their individuality....there own thoughts, and views on things...each deeper and less deep then others depending on how far they actually search through their mind

[PariahPoet]

That's what CP was saying.

[Kelpten]

It's amazing how many people come by our wolf shelter and are shocked when we tell them that wolves have personalities. Yet when working with them, you can't imagine them any other way. Devon and Roxy are recluses, Lunadi is gruff, but gentle at heart, Alaska just brims with personality, and Lucian is a young punk. Wolves are as varried as humans, if not more so.

And now I'm going to make my own attempt at translating for cumulusprotagonist. We are generalizing to much. What we decide for werewolves as a whole may not hold up on an individual level. That right?

[Aki]

I was not comparing werewolves to black people.
I was speaking of the subconcious use of generalizations.
I brought up African Americans to say that regardless of the history and regardless of the circumstances it is still the choice of the individual.
This being said I was trying to say that this does not seem to be mentioned enough.
Individuality is taken for granted and does not seem to frequent conversations enough.
It seems to be sucked out.

Everyone assumes the indivuality of werewolves. Thus it isn't mentioned because that'd be like us having to constantly mention werewolves are creatures that change from man to wolf, or that the sky is blue. This is stuff that's assumed. Common sense stuff.

We generalize because you can't discuss a group on a person by person basis, especially an entirely fictional one, because in the case of real groups this is either hard or nigh impossible due to not knowing them all, or in the case of fictional ones, because everyone may have a different interpretation!

Thus, we make guesses at what the group might do, regardless of what the indiviual might do because the individual's choices are assumed to be his own, etc etc.

[23Jarden]

Yes, generalizing is wrong. But, if we (to use your previous example) treated werewolves as such then nothing would ever come of it. No one would get any answer.
"Would African Americans need an education?" That's not really our business to decide. I mean, yeah, the answer to that question is obvious. (who doesn't need an education?)

Hmm...
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if we treated questions about werewolves like it was an off limits topic nothing would ever get done.

Hmm... I guess maybe if we did a percentage thing it would work. (90% of WWs need an education.

[wolf4life]

so isnt the whole point of everyones speaking to say that no matter what, who, or...well yea whatever you are...you have individuality?

[BlackWolfDS]

Your mind, your idea's, the way you think, ect make one an individual...I think ^^;