Horse Slaughter at Foreign Plants

[cumulusprotagonist]

In government class it was brought to my attention that horses are being taken into Mexico and slaughtered.

According to the teacher's notes the horses are jabbed in the back with a small knife seven to nine times. Paralyzed the horse is hoisted upsidedown into the air by a chain on their rear leg. Their throat is cut as they slowly bleed to death.

30,000 Horses were shipped from America to Mexico this year.

Talk of a ban on exporting horses have been discused but not put into effect.

[Lukas]

I'm not suggesting we look the other way,
but did your teacher give you any proof?

[Kaebora]

What do they even use the horses for? Meat? Other assorted products? I can't quite say I'd be even the least bit hungry for a horseburger.

[RedEye]

Horse meat is not all that uncommon in foreign countries. It is somewhat richer than beef and tastes very different.

As to the export of Horses, and what is being done with the meat and hides...once across the border, we have no say.

Mexico is a poor country, financially; and their comittment to humane treatment is-shall we say-less than ours. Horse meat may be all that a poor villager may get to eat; you wouldn't believe the levels of poverty across the border unless you see it. Food is food-just what it was is less than important, when you're hungry.

All I suspect that a ban on Horse Export would accomplish is an increase in smuggling, which is already a problem on our southern border.

[cumulusprotagonist]

According to the teacher's notes the horses are jabbed in the back with a small knife seven to nine times. Paralyzed the horse is hoisted upsidedown into the air by a chain on their rear leg. Their throat is cut as they slowly bleed to death.

Poverty is no excuse for this

[Kaebora]

It's livestock after all. We may see it as taboo, but their views are indeed different. Our methods of killing the cattle for beef isn't all that pritty either. It's still killing, no matter how you look at it. It's a natural process as many animals feast on the flesh of other animals to live. Calling us murderers for killing cows is like saying a lion or wolf is a murderer. So killing horses for meat isn't all that different.

[cumulusprotagonist]

According to the teacher's notes the horses are jabbed in the back with a small knife seven to nine times. Paralyzed the horse is hoisted upsidedown into the air by a chain on their rear leg. Their throat is cut as they slowly bleed to death.

Poverty is no excuse for this

Animals don't torture their prey before they kill them

[Silent Hunter]

Explain how cats play with mice and sometimes not even eat them at all. That not torture?

What you must consider is that animals there may be just viewed as food, nothing to give about even if its in much pain. Thats the problem and you can hardly march in and dictate animal rights to them in thier state.

Oh and its done for a reason:

According to the teacher's notes the horses are jabbed in the back with a small knife seven to nine times(to paralyze it and stop it kicking out or moving). Paralyzed(Result) the horse is hoisted upsidedown into the air by a chain on their rear leg. Their throat is cut as they slowly bleed to death.(and the blood will drain out of the body)

Quite grussome but i can see why its done like that.

[MoonKit]

According to the teacher's notes the horses are jabbed in the back with a small knife seven to nine times. Paralyzed the horse is hoisted upsidedown into the air by a chain on their rear leg. Their throat is cut as they slowly bleed to death.

Poverty is no excuse for this

Thats how we kill all our hamburger. If you dont like it, I suggest you go vegan.

[Kaebora]

It's quite humane actually. They don't feel the killing blows because of the paralysis. It's sad that they do it to animals as intelligent as horses, but remember that we eat Pigs, and they are smarter than dogs.

[MattSullivan]

Yeah, so? Cows are slaughtered every year for meat and other essentials. So are lambs, pigs, chickens, and a host of other animals.

[Silent Hunter]

It's quite humane actually. They don't feel the killing blows because of the paralysis. It's sad that they do it to animals as intelligent as horses, but remember that we eat Pigs, and they are smarter than dogs.

Plus i don't think they have much choice what they get.

I think the "bambi" factor has seeped in. If it were cows instead of horses then this thread would never have been made.

[MoonKit]

If you guys think about it...we kill the same way animals do.


Predator animals rip open their prey's throats or wound them enough where they cant get away anymore. Then they start eating them alive as they bleed to death. Its true. Theres nothing wrong with it. Its life.

[Silent Hunter]

Then they start eating them alive as they bleed to death. Its true. Theres nothing wrong with it. Its life.

It can be quite upsetting to watch it die in pain like that. I don't like watching hunts for a reason. You can't blame people if they don't like it. Its just when people try and interfere. I know its just how it works and if i don't like it i wont watch it.

[MoonKit]

Yes, I know. It can be depressing to watch because if you like all animals, you like the deer or the cow too. But as long as you understand that its life. Some people dont understand that. And I did hear on a nature program that endorphins (sp?) kick in and they dont even feel it. Which makes it easier to stomach.

[Silent Hunter]

Yeah. It must be painful for the animal and it would upset you. I think it has become nature to brand certain animals cute, defenceless, good etc and hating to see them die. With that thought guns are quite humane as it does not take many shots or just one shot to kill.

It actually makes a good sconario for fantasty animals stories where gods create the earth and are considered good. If these gods are so good then why do they have a system like that at all? That goes for many earth gods in general. I'll stop on this though as its veering off topic.

[Midnight]

Around here, horses generally end up as pet food. Would you rather that horses were left to rot where they fell and cats and dogs went hungry?

[Set]

I don't understand the reason why the animal has to be alive in order for the blood to drain out. It doesn't make sense to me.

[Lukas]

I don't understand the reason why the animal has to be alive in order for the blood to drain out. It doesn't make sense to me.

if i was to guess, if its still alive, it would be easier to drain because the heart is still pumping

[RedEye]

Plus, the horse, cow, pig, whatever-is in shock. They feel little or nothing.

I hunt. Not infrequently, I have to fire a second shot to the animal's head, close up; for a clean and humane kill. Then I have to skin and butcher it there, so I can drag the meat out to the truck or jeep.

The animal feels little at first; just like a human-it takes time for the shock to wear off and the pain to start up. I have tracked a wounded deer three miles to finish it-because that is the honorable thing to do.
And, as a matter of religious observance, I thank the animal's spirit for the food and hide I harvest.
I also leave a portion of the meat for the cousins...they hunger, too.

We live on the death of others, whether plant or animal. In time, we are harvested, too...

[vrikasatma]

Let's just say that legislation has been passed to ban slaughter of horses *here* in the United States. There are two foreign-owned horse slaughterhouses here and they're about to be shut down.

No, we have no business telling other countries what they can or can't eat, but in Mexico's case I know that horse rustling for the sake of fueling those slaughterhouses happens a lot in Texas. And especially El Paso and Las Cruces, which are right next to the border; both of those cities have a real problem with livestock theft, including horses.

For those who care: the American Quarter Horse Association supports horse slaughter because a lot of their breeders supply the horsemeat industry. QHs are easily handled, compact, weigh as much as or more than other breeds (1500#) and you can pack more in a truck. It's also another reason that inbreeding is rampant in that breed because if you can't sell it to a person, you can sell it to a slaughterhouse. And if it's dead on a plate in France or Sweden, who cares if it's mother was also its half-sister?

If other countries want to slaughter and eat horses — fine, they can breed their own. They don't need to get them here. Personally, I eat meat but I draw the line at horses for the same reason Hindus don't eat cows: they're worth more to me alive than dead. YMMV, but I personally won't cross that line.

[Spongy]

And this is where I step in with a few words of wisdom.

Vrikasatma, Swedish people do not eat horse meat. This is coming from a Swede.

And now I step out.

[vrikasatma]

Thank you for updating my knowledge. Last I checked, they did.

[Ink]

I have seen more than any of you on a kill floor, since I've been there since was old enough to walk.

What you're describing is very similar to what happens in a regular slaughter house. However, with a common misunderstanding bloated by the fact you or your government teacher have not been on many kill floors. And probably fewer in Mexico, but they aren't dynamically different unless you're talking private, on farm-site slaughterings which can be gruesome down to criminal acts.

1. First, it's probably all ready been killed by a captive bolt gun or a .22 mag. - not anything special in either case.

It would just take too much manpower and is totally unreasonable to stab a live animal six to eight times trying to get at the spinal column. The action itself is faulty - a 'stabbing' motion would be offset if you hit bone, and unnecessarily cruel.

Besides, what business, poor country or not, likes to waste good hides?

Repeated stabbing is not a slaughterhouse practice, period. It's sloppy and HIGHLY frowned upon.

2. After the initial kill and the animal is officially 'down' the animal is hoisted from a chain hoist on the ceiling, upside down to cut the major blood vessels in the neck first and allow gravity to drain the animal.

Most places save the blood for a pick up - it is a valuable fertilizer that usually gut haulers take. They take blood, guts, hides, hooves, legs, head, and tail for various other products, fertilizer or waste disposal - depending on what country your in it could also end up in your sausage. Yum.

I presume, especially in Mexico, more is used and less is wasted.

3. Where the misconception that the animal is alive comes from:

What must be understood is that during this time, from the kill chute to the floor, the animal's system is still functioning through the trauma of death; it's now functioning at random, like a computer going haywire. Neurons go bonkers after the very lethal brain impact and send signals for the muscles to incoherently move. Those muscle spasms can cause the animal to look like it's thrashing.

Most people have a perspective of dead meaning a lack of movement - but the freshly dead (or really decomposed) tend to make such bizarre motion. It seems eerie - but the glassed over, open eyes are a give away (a quick test is to touch the eyeball while it's in the chute; if it blinks it's alive and 'saw' it coming - if not, it's dead).

Being a meat cutter is an art all its own. And Mexico might be poor, but that doesn't mean they are somehow primitive and must be reduced to barbaric acts akin to savage dismemberment. That's kind of crude to assume.

As I see it, we all can pontificate on the term humane, though, it's still killing.

The Jews and Muslims get away with slitting the arteries in animals and letting them stand their until they bleed to death, through prayer and blessing. Ritual sacrifice - fine if the Jews do it but god help the occultists...

By the way, Set - that's a form of kosher killing, the bleeding out while alive. Sometimes they stun them, or paralyze them but sometimes they don't - depends on the code they follow. Catholics, Muslims, Jews and such don't usually eat horse meat. It's up there with things not to eat. To each their own hobby, I suppose. I like horse meat.

I find that style of killing unnecessary but if said certain people think it is the path to heaven I am glad they feel comfortable doing it; I sure as hell don't think it does much, but I am an atheist who does not anthropomorphize or idolize critters as deities.

However, as my boss says, there are no two classifications of 'dead' once you get there... it's just how comfortable you make the task of getting there that matters.

That's why the Halal and Kashrut codes stand firm for ritual slaughter, with people to follow their ritualistic methods who feel comfortably set in their ways. Even regular American's who don't eat kosher dote on the USDA's ritualistic patterns under the terminology of 'humane'... Culture dictates all and we stand by its rules - lest to be called pigheaded, racists like the White Knights or akin to the terrorists from the AFL on the matter of animal rights.

Alas, the US has still banned horse slaughter. It's killed an industry in turn - and so the road to hell is indeed paved with good intentions - and put people out of business. They shut doors to comfort the enthusiast who loves horses but forgets the fact they are part of the horse slaughter industry by proxy. Now the market for personal horses is trash with it flooded full of 'junk' horses that used to manifest purpose on the slaughter line. Now animals need to make twice the trip to get to a slaughter house. Funny how that works - good intentions doubling up the trip.

A border ban would make foreign policy oh-so-fun; why not screw with our neighbors market price of meat more than we all ready have!? Oh boy, lets make more enemies because we feel some stem of guilt.

For what?

Feeding people.

Honest, cumulusprotagonist, I hope your government teacher is a wonderful-wonderful person simply trying to get you to see the dynamic in the world is indeed not black and white, but varying shades of gray. That is what makes it so damn interesting. But I also hope that person helps to rationalize notes given about 'bans' and the social, governmental, and cultural rammifications of said 'bans'... least we end up fighting another phantasm, like 'THE WAR ON DRUGS'. Billions of dollars later we could have a similar, but equally expensive phantasm 'BAN FOOD' with some ridiculous slogan like:

"Ban food, it kills."

[vrikasatma]

I have seen more than any of you on a kill floor

You might want to update your knowledge banks...

My father was a butcher and he took my brothers and I to a slaughterhouse several times. My brother used to keep a cow's eye in a jar of formaldehyde and took it to school for show-and-tell once.

Don't you love the innocence of yesteryear?