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Could werewolves have come about from evolution based factors? I mean, evolutionists say that every living thing came from a common ancestor. And even though humans are closely related to chimps, couldn't some humans have descended from wolves, and then needed to will to change in order to survive in the climate that they existed in? Or for some other reasons why nature made them have the need to have two forms.

And another thing, I am NOT saying that evolution is absolutely true, this is just a theory. And second, I am NOT saying that you (being the reader/poster) have to believe in evolution to post here, I just want your opinions. Thank you.

Here's my take: Werewolves are human. They split off as a result of necessity or divine intervention (it happens, like at the NBA Playoffs).

They "evolve" the same way that everybody evolves: the mutation that has the most babies that live to have more babies will prevail. That's natural selection.

Religions all claim that Heaven can interact in this world; so maybe a Goddess or a God decided to give their followers a little boost, and let natural selection take it from there.

In any case, it's my opinion that Were-anythings are a recent (last ten thousand years) occurance that is still evolving.

Face it, we aren't sure how WE got here, yet.

Ok lets say that somewhere long ago, some sort of virus developed in the wild among certain animals. but unlike any other virus, when this entered the animals body, it replicated the DNA pattern for some reason. when a person was infected by the secondary virus (the one with animal DNA) by being bitten by the animal and surviving, just a few peoples were somehow able to integrate the animal DNA into their own and became the first human/animal hybrids. eventually, the origanal and secondary viruses died off, and all that was left was the hybridized virus, when this passed on, it made the first shape shifters, able to take the form of human, animal, and hybrid.

when i say virus, i dont really mean virus. its just my way of saying genetic replicator parasite.
thats my take on it.really great question btw.

Wolf-man-24 wrote:Ok lets say that somewhere long ago, some sort of virus developed in the wild among certain animals. but unlike any other virus, when this entered the animals body, it replicated the DNA pattern for some reason. when a person was infected by the secondary virus (the one with animal DNA) by being bitten by the animal and surviving, just a few peoples were somehow able to integrate the animal DNA into their own and became the first human/animal hybrids. eventually, the origanal and secondary viruses died off, and all that was left was the hybridized virus, when this passed on, it made the first shape shifters, able to take the form of human, animal, and hybrid.

when i say virus, i dont really mean virus. its just my way of saying genetic replicator parasite.
thats my take on it.really great question btw.

Try Viroid: similar to a virus in action, but much, much larger and capable of holding more data.

That isn't a bad concept. It does make Werewolves (and other Metamorphs) more reasonable...
Now, try the Shift without runaway mitosis ( a good chance for cancer) as the method...

RedEye wrote:Religions all claim that Heaven can interact in this world; so maybe a Goddess or a God decided to give their followers a little boost, and let natural selection take it from there.

Actually, thats kinda the idea in my story of how werebeasts were created, basically gods converting some of their early followers into werebeasts, like Bast for werecats, Odin for werebears, ect. Of course, werewolves were first, created by a wolf god that has no real precedent in the real world (yes I know Zeus and Apollo were associated with wolves, but the greek gods seem a little too "civilized" to produce werecreatures).

You have to be joking about the Greeks... Zeus, anyway; he's shag anything that was even vaguely female. And impersonate anyone, or anything, in order to attract said vaguely female. Species totally optional.

His days as a swan netted him Castor and Pollux.

Midnight wrote:You have to be joking about the Greeks... Zeus, anyway; he's shag anything that was even vaguely female. And impersonate anyone, or anything, in order to attract said vaguely female. Species totally optional.

Well, I know that, and I know that was pretty much true for alot of the gods! But I wasn't referrign to their behavior when I was saying they were too "civilized" though, because I know if I did I would be flat-out wrong. I meant that one would expect a werewolf god would be a bit more naturey than the Greek onesthat are associated with them (Like the Celtic or Native-American gods), and the one that I do consider like that (Artemis) has no connection to wolves at all, and so that's what i meant by the Greek gods being too "Civilized".

There are a Legion of dieties we know nothing at all about. If the first Wolf Deity's time was in pre-recorded history, only that God's offspring might even remember their Divine Progenator.

Romans believed that the Luperii (who had to be children of the Patrician class and ancient of lineage) WERE Werewolves. In historical Rome, yet.
Remember Romulus and Remus's nurse? The Wolf?

Perhaps Werewolves are more ancient than we think.

Why would gods want to favor certain people though? (Okay, this is even more of a stretch, since no one has a real answer, but just curious)
Wow maybe I should have called this Evolutionary Factors and Greek God's (lol)

Rosiewolf wrote:Why would gods want to favor certain people though? (Okay, this is even more of a stretch, since no one has a real answer, but just curious)
Wow maybe I should have called this Evolutionary Factors and Greek God's (lol)

Perhaps certain people do things that a certain god likes. Perhaps those people were the nucleus for that god's realization. Perhaps just because they got lucky/unlucky. Gods are above all, fickle (as far as most people can understand them, that is). Perhaps because it was Thursday. Perhaps simply BECAUSE. That is the ultimate answer...

That's one... simple answer yet very complex it seems.

Would werewolves then be able to out live humans, because they are better equipped to survive in nature? Not age wise, but like... species wise... if that makes sense. As a population, would their species be able to survive in the future? I think thats a better rewording... at least I hope it is.

RedEye wrote: That is the ultimate answer...

*ahem*

42!

in the beginning man was retarded, the deformed offspring of an ancient primate, man survived by watching animals, of course the first thing they observed were their parents or other members of the clan or family group, who the hell knows, i dont know anyone old enough to tell me, of course the strain that would today be known as humans couldnt watch only their primate cousins forever, beginning to observe the survival skills of other creatures such as wolves, many of course seeing those skills too closely, and probably getting munched on, but even beyond the evolutionary factor is the spirituality, many have been observed to have a hightened spriritual presence, some can even project that energy in different ways, in the native american beliefs, if you kill an animal and eat its heart, than you take that animals spirit into yourself and it lives there with you to aid you, to give you stength, also in the native american culture, werewolves were not mindless killers as was believed in middle age europe, but werewolves were trixters, not really hurting anyone but pulling pranks, and pretty much just having a ball at the expense of people without really pushing the food chain card, lets face it, wolves have us beat in every -natural- way, speed, agility, even strength, ( and i swear their smarter than alot of people i know) so, why wouldnt the werewolves attack people?, because they were the people, native americans (atleast before the casino) were in touch with nature, taking only what they needed from the land, farming, actually having a pattern to keep the nutriants in the soil. corn, beans, squash also known as the three sisters, planting three of each seed, one for the crows, one for the earth, and one for them, when a native would kill an animal, nothing was wasted NOTHING, keeping a perfect ballance with the land, and the creatures who lived there, then the settlers came along, abusing the language barrior between peoples... thats not even the point of this, i appologize, i guess when i gets down to it, the native americans have so much more spiritual energies, (atleast at one time, now everyone likes money over living naturaly) lets put it this way, if a man can concentrate for about a month and begin lactating, whose to say that a man with a much larger portion of spiritual energy cant channel the energies of a wolf, which are also very spiritually powerful, concentrate for a month, and take on the strengths and charactoristics of wolf... and how about we add what humans lack now, instinct, everything is born with it, and if not, that creature is royaly screwed, humans are born knowing how to walk, if it was learned we would all remember our first time standing up, and if you do remember it... i pitty you, unless there is a medical reason in which the feeling still doesnt change, our traits are passed on to our children along with it a portion of our spiritual presence after all, that is part of us being turning into a new life, and with that genetic material carry the building blocks for that instinct, its something science will never understand, and people that care only about living by science will never accept, before people started going werewolf crazy, shape shifting was still yet uncommon but existant, being taught on generation to generation, most children would be born with the gift, others of the same blood line would never have a single shift throughout their entire lives, or if they did, it was because of some dire event, the border between survival and death, or the survival of their kin, to be honest.. jesus is unwillingly responsable for the near extinction of shape shifters and shape shifting practices today, it wasnt jesus himself, but the fanatics that followed them, destroying most all, natural (animalistic persay) people and beliefs.
Pegans?-nothing like what it was, those who practiced wicca?-burned at the stake (extra crispy) the native americans- ever see the atari game "custers revenge" yea, the native americans got raped, land, people, culture, future. i remember stand up comic saying "when was the last time you seen two Indians together <refering of course to the native americans not people from india... the red dot on the forehead is a dead giveaway> and that comic had a point. you see, people cut their evolution off. why? because jesus wanted us all to get along, and some assholes misenterprited it as how we ALL should live, granted we are all free to worship or practice what ever we want, but the ones that could have given us the real wisdom are gone, they cant be brought back, humans cant even evolve seperatly anymore, because their f*** everywhere, I mean that both ways, and thus you have the mirrored effect on both meanings, people have kids, so there are more humans, and because there are more humans, everyone like "hey f*** yeah i'm gonna get me some" and they cant even take care of the "mistake" they produce because the human population is streatching the the earths ability to sustain life to its limit, in the old days you grew or killed your own food, but you didnt kill too much because then your family would starve in coming months, and even worse for small communities, now food is plentiful, because humans have taken land that wasnt theirs to claim, humans have wiped out more species than any other creature to ever exist, total extinction, game over man, game over, there use to be jaguar in north america until the settlers and waggon runners went men in black on their asses, you know where jaguars exist in north america today?, i think their are five confirmed in texas or arizona in the wild... thats about it, and everyones bitching about people dying in iraq or all the casualties of war, humans dont even care about the planet they live on to let their bodies decay back into the f*** soil, they have to be burried in a shiney wood or metal box and closed in an even bigger concrete box, humans are ungrateful, wow, off track again i'm sorry, the point is, the people with the knowledge on how the use the gift are gone, save a few, and guess what ladies and dogs! its becoming instict. why you may ask?, because we need to return to nature, ( either that or some people need to die and quick) <depending on your mind set> dont mourn someones death and bury them in a box, be happy they lived and bury them in a burlap sac, hell atleast then their spirit just might have some way to return to the earth, (when jesus comes back he sure as hell isnt bringing a f*** shovel) jesus was a man yes, is he our saviour? no... he was their saviour, we missed our chance, he forgave their sins not ours, and once again a sin is a christian thing, another law or term made by man, not nature, in nature, if you kill someone, their family will either f*** you up or kill you, maybe take your kid to replace theirs, you take someones kid without good reason... mama gonna f*** you up like a grizzly bear, their are all sorts of natural checks and ballances, we dont need some chimp chump (GWB) or any other person to lead us, we can survive on our own, what you gonna miss your computer or video games?, theyve been around for what less than 100 years, you dont need them to survive other wise humans would be dead right now, and there would be a natural order to the world, trust me it would do just fine without people, we dont need to look up at the sky and question, sure it sets us apart but what the hell, your not happy enough just being alive? (keep in mind this has turned into a rant... dont take offense but please do give it some thought people...and if you've made it this far, you get a gold star and a bananna sticker) ....i'm tired, i havent slept in about... 25-26 hours and its either i'll be silly as all hell, or just straight up mean, so i'll end with this.

Werewolves are real, you see atleast two everytime you go to the grocery store, the park, atleast 100 at a theme park, the sad part is, most of them dont know they have a wonderful give, many never even give their dreams thought, only passing them off as your imagination, more and more kids are learning what they are, through dreams, and sudden life changing experiences, as we speak seemingly indifferent subspecies of human are evolving, not moving towards technology, but back to nature, preferring vegetables from their own garden, or prey they kill themselves, barely able to stand demesticated food sources.

thats about all i can say, except, i was six when the dreams started, eleven when i underwent my first unconscious shift, i was unconscious because i blacked out from the pain, i was missing for two hours and later found in my bed which my father checked over again, i still undergo unconscious shifts while asleep, most end without incident, its funny seeing your friends face when he wakes up before you and you dont quite look the same as you did when you fell asleep, he handled it pretty well, and later even found that he posessed the gift, open your minds people, there is more out that than you know, more than just evolution

Wolf-man-24 wrote:when i say virus, i dont really mean virus. its just my way of saying genetic replicator parasite.
thats my take on it.really great question btw.

*nods* I use the term "virus" in all of my writing just for lack of a better term. You could say "bacterium" or "symbiont," but that sounds like a weak attempt to sugarcoat lycanthropy if you ask me.

Typically my characters never have the time to sit around and think about how lycanthropy works, but I've got a theory that they sometimes work with:

1) Lycanthropy cannot live outside of human body temperature and acts as a symbiont by boosting the host's immune system and corrects any and all abnormalities.

2) Shifting occurs as a result of the virus's inability to distinguish its current host from its previous host (IE: it occasionally mistakes human DNA for abnormal wolf DNA and tries to correct it).

I know that sounds like a lazy, uninspired way to describe lycanthropy, but as I said, this is just something my characters brainstormed that may or may not be true for all they know. Besides, if you ask me, what it is is much less interesting than what they do with it.

Terastas wrote:

Wolf-man-24 wrote:when i say virus, i dont really mean virus. its just my way of saying genetic replicator parasite.
thats my take on it.really great question btw.

*nods* I use the term "virus" in all of my writing just for lack of a better term. You could say "bacterium" or "symbiont," but that sounds like a weak attempt to sugarcoat lycanthropy if you ask me.

Typically my characters never have the time to sit around and think about how lycanthropy works, but I've got a theory that they sometimes work with:

1) Lycanthropy cannot live outside of human body temperature and acts as a symbiont by boosting the host's immune system and corrects any and all abnormalities.

2) Shifting occurs as a result of the virus's inability to distinguish its old host from its previous host (IE: it occasionally mistakes human DNA for abnormal wolf DNA and tries to correct it).

I know that sounds like a lazy, uninspired way to describe lycanthropy, but as I said, this is just something my characters brainstormed that may or may not be true for all they know. Besides, if you ask me, what it is is much less interesting than what they do with it.

If it works for you; then it works. We aren't comparing Stellar Carbon creation cycles, here. Now, that is fun...

RedEye wrote:

Terastas wrote:

Wolf-man-24 wrote:when i say virus, i dont really mean virus. its just my way of saying genetic replicator parasite.
thats my take on it.really great question btw.

*nods* I use the term "virus" in all of my writing just for lack of a better term. You could say "bacterium" or "symbiont," but that sounds like a weak attempt to sugarcoat lycanthropy if you ask me.

Typically my characters never have the time to sit around and think about how lycanthropy works, but I've got a theory that they sometimes work with:

1) Lycanthropy cannot live outside of human body temperature and acts as a symbiont by boosting the host's immune system and corrects any and all abnormalities.

2) Shifting occurs as a result of the virus's inability to distinguish its old host from its previous host (IE: it occasionally mistakes human DNA for abnormal wolf DNA and tries to correct it).

I know that sounds like a lazy, uninspired way to describe lycanthropy, but as I said, this is just something my characters brainstormed that may or may not be true for all they know. Besides, if you ask me, what it is is much less interesting than what they do with it.

If it works for you; then it works. We aren't comparing Stellar Carbon creation cycles, here. Now, that is fun...

Err... RedEye, what exactly are Stellar Carbon creations... something to do with how stars are created is my guess.

There are three competing theories on how stars make carbon out of lighter materials. Those materials themselves are made out of Hydrogen, after it had been turned into Helium in the heart of a star.
You literally are "star-stuff", in that your body's elements were made inside a star at some time in the past, then nova'ed out into space when that star died.
Just how carbon is formed is one of the continuing arguments among those of us who wonder at such things, since all three potential explanations work equally well.
That's what I meant.

Oh. Ok. That's one new thing that I've learned today.

Okay.

What about this.

A genetic viral organism. Back in the days when man was just beginning wolves were being infected by the organism that changed their body chemistry. As most know when sun hits skin, the skin reacts like vitamin D is created and the cell multiply faster. Well in the absence of sunlight they changed into more ferocious wolf. As time went on the virus jumped species to humans, another mammal. But the virus maintained some of the genetic markers in it's wolf host. So in the absence of any sunlight for an extended period of light, like night, the virus takes over and the markers come out in the physical attributes. AHHHHHHH WEREWOLF.

I know there are some holes but hey it's an idea. ]

AND I MIGHT use this so no taking it for stories or anything or I'll see u in court.

Figure this in: A virus is only comprised of dna or rna (a set of genes already) and replicates by invading cells and hijacking their reproduction equipment and energy to make more viruses.
While in the Wolf, it amplified some of its instructions to improve the Wolf it was living in ( because the ones that didn't died with their host).
Then it invades man, at first doing little; because it is inhibited by Vitamin D; but then at night when there is no Viatmin D production, and during winter when the sunlight is minimal; it acts. It tries to make a better Wolf out of a Human.

Fewer holes, more plausibility. Good idea.

hmm...

interesting idea with the vitamin D...you go many ways with that. It would make light sensitivity as a short-term trigger much more plausible, seeing as the vitamin D in your system would probably drop off gradually, and be adequately low by the time of night that a person might transform...

if you linked that type of trigger with your body's natural sleep cycles, you could have something.

in that situation...would Milk with Vitamin D, or other Vitamin D supplements, possibly be a *weakness* for a werewolf, or even a means of controlling lycanthropy?

RedEye wrote: Religions all claim that Heaven can interact in this world; so maybe a Goddess or a God decided to give their followers a little boost, and let natural selection take it from there.

Actually in a book i read about werewolves they were descendants of the she-wolf that raised Remus and Romulus and she was gifted by the gods with the power to shift into a human form and they(werewolves) were the guardians of the human race.

Hope that made sense.

Heck, to me, that couldn't have been any clearer. though i'm a wishful thinker, so, i may not have the most stable of minds.

i'm christian and native american, so i have two ideas that i have to deal with in how things are and were. My christian side says that we do change over time and that God has certaint things happen for certaint reasons. my indian side says that we probably did evolve from wolves, spiritually. i try listening to both and differentiate the two but they have their pros and cons. Irish Wolf, that is what i've heard and that could be true, look at Cerberus, he was the guardian to the gateway to hell.