That is SO WRONG!! (Cruel act)

[Blue-eyes in the dark]

could you clearify though, that the mistreatment of the pup isn't right and that you don't side with the mindless fools who did this dispickable deed.

[Terastas]

What fascinates me about this clip is that it seems like almost everyone has chosen to get pissed off over this clip, yet at two completely different people.

Some of you yelled "Stupid marines! End the war! End the war!"

And some of you yelled "Stupid media! Patriot act! Patriot act!"

Of course I'm summarizing, but you get the idea.

You need to understand that, yes, marines are human beings too, and as human beings, you can expect to find just as many good people as you would find worthless loads undeserving of the oxygen they are breathing. Back when the war was in Afghanistan, I knew of three kids in my graduating class that wanted to join the military right out of high school; one of them wanted "to serve his country," and the other two wanted "to bag me a towel head." People need to recognize, not only that war is desensitizing and dehumanizing, but that there are a lot of people over there that were never there for the right reasons to begin with.

And obviously, just because it's on camera doesn't mean it's true. However, to the contrary, just because it's on camera doesn't mean it isn't true either. You can support the troops without condoning this kind of behavior, but a lot of people don't understand that and were too happy to declare this a work of editing. Whether or not this is real has yet to be determined.

My advice to the marine-bashers: Ease off for now.
My advice to the media-bashers: Ease off for now.

[Renorei]

And that's even assuming that the video is real.

Ooooooookaaaaaay

Why would they even bother making that type of video? Was that Marine looking for an excuse to get back home? To get kicked out? Throwing a puppy MIGHT just do it. But at the same time....piss off so many Americans.

I'm not saying the MARINE made the video. That wouldn't make any sense. IF it's a fake, then I'm saying that someone else got hold of the footage, edited in the yipping noises, in the hopes of making our troops look bad (or for the sake of causing controversy, for "lulz"). Keep in mind, I DO NOT support the Iraq war, but I DO support our good men and women who are over there risking their lives. I want to end this war as quickly as possible and bring our soldiers home alive.

If you watch the video without the sound, it seems to me like the puppy was already dead. Think about it: it doesn't move...AT ALL...when he's holding it by the scruff of the neck. Also, there's one moment a few seconds before he throws it that the body looks quite lopsided...the way a body looks when it's been lying dead on its side for a while. I'm a dog breeder and I've held a lot of puppies by the scruffs of their necks. They don't just hang there. They squirm and make noises.

Furthermore, what are the odds of finding a LIVE puppy out in the middle of the searing hot desert? Not too good. It's much more likely that you'd find a dead one. A puppy couldn't live long in that heat without water.

Would YOU pick up a dead puppy and consider it being cute? I wouldn't go near the thing!! If it was fake....then he probably had a stuffed animal. Not a dead one.

Uh, I grew up on a farm. I picked up dead animals ALL the time. I have no problem with dead animal bodies. And yeah, the "cute" comment was a little inappropriate, but I think if you're a soldier serving in Iraq, you probably become pretty hardened to seeing death all around you and develop a "warped" sense of humor. I could imagine some soldiers out on patrol picking up a dead puppy and calling it "cute"...especially if one or both of them grew up in an area like I did.

Throwing a live puppy off a cliff is reprehensible, I agree...but a dead one? Who cares? Maybe it's just me, but I feel no reverence for dead bodies. It's just an empty container.

Then why do we burry our dead? Why not let them rot on the side of the road. Oh wait....we don't because we are civilized human beings!! We DO care EVEN after death.

We care about HUMAN bodies, yeah. But everybody has a different standard as to what's appropriate for animal bodies. Like I said, I grew up on a farm. When an animal died (which was fairly often, considering the number of animals we had) we didn't bury it. We went and put it out in the field or the forest. And yeah, every now and then (if the dead animal was small enough) we'd chuck it. I grew up that way, so I'm used to it. Maybe that marine has a similar background?

So stop going apesh*t over this, guys. If you want to get mad over something, get mad about the fact that our soldiers are dying in a pointless war and slaughtering innocent people.

All wars are pointless. Even if the war in Iraq ends...another will start up somewhere and we'll get involved. We are ALL innocent people. Innocent until someone takes away our life or loved ones. It could be that drunk driver. That suicidal maniac that decides to take students lives before his own. That robber that killed several people over a pack of smokes. The people who decided to ram a passenger jet into a crowded building!!

We're living in constant fear. You may never know if a trip to the grocery store will be your last.

True. But the fact that we'll eventually be in another pointless war, and the fact that we'll all die someday anyway, doesn't justify continuing to stay in THIS pointless war.

could you clearify though, that the mistreatment of the pup isn't right and that you don't side with the mindless fools who did this dispickable deed.

Of course. If he did indeed kill a live puppy for no reason, then that is truly despicable. I am not in the puppy killer's corner, if he actually killed a puppy...however, despite the fact that I do not agree with his actions, I still don't think the outrage that is being directed towards him is justifiable. There are blogs all over the internet, buzzing with this guy's FULL NAME. Imagine how much hate mail, how many deaththreats, how many nasty phone calls he's going to get. His house or vehicle could be severely vandalized, and his family could be threatened. Somebody could actually get hurt. More human suffering is the last thing we need.

Sometimes people do cruel and stupid things. But that doesn't justify thousands of people ganging up on him. If there is going to be punishment, let his bosses (a.k.a. the military) handle it.

In all honesty, if that video is real...I'm sure this guy feels pretty remorseful right now anyway.

[Xiroteus]

Note - The below is said in a normal calm conversational manner.
Using quotes to state opinions on key points that I would like to address.

If this is real I am mad about it, as I am with the senseless cruel death of innocent animals and people anywhere, people are outraged over this because it is wrong (If the video is real, if fake, it is in very bad taste.) If people saw videos of every horrible act done to others we would be outraged about those as well.

IF it's a fake, then I'm saying that someone else got hold of the footage, edited in the yipping noises, in the hopes of making our troops look bad.

When I first saw it, it made the person look like an evil monster, being a Marine has nothing to do with it, good and bad people can be anywhere, the actions of a few really should not reflect everyone in the same group, too bad it does for many.

I still don't think the outrage that is being directed towards him is justifiable.

If someone throws a living animal off a cliff, they deserve every bit of scorn they get, however, no one should threaten is family, that is where the hate crosses the line, they have nothing to do with his actions.

Sometimes people do cruel and stupid things. But that doesn't justify thousands of people ganging up on him.

Depends on what you do, most people do not throw living (if a real video) animal off of cliffs.

In all honesty, if that video is real...I'm sure this guy feels pretty remorseful right now anyway.

Doubtful that such a person could be remorseful about such a planed out action, you would not do it in the first place. (Based on it being a real video)
Anyone can use poor judgment, there are some actions that cannot be overlooked as easy as others.

[Figarou]

And tomorrow you could die of a heart attack trip and fall breaking your neck... Death is always just a hop skip, jump away. You could die numerous ways without the aide of a crazed fiend. Should we live in fear though. Absolutely not. Death is just as much a part of life as birth. You live your life the best you can, and then when your time comes it is going to come regardless.

Yes...I know I could die of a heart attack at any time now. Maybe I could die laughing.

I just don't like the idea of having "my life" in somebody else's hands. (Unless its a doctor trying to save it.)

And obviously, just because it's on camera doesn't mean it's true. However, to the contrary, just because it's on camera doesn't mean it isn't true either. You can support the troops without condoning this kind of behavior, but a lot of people don't understand that and were too happy to declare this a work of editing. Whether or not this is real has yet to be determined.

What I'd like to know is......why make that video? If it is an edited video...then where is the original?

Uh, I grew up on a farm. I picked up dead animals ALL the time.

[MattSullivan]

I heard prior to this thread the puppy was already dead.

[MoonKit]

I agree....the puppy looks dead to begin with.

And who knows, maybe he had a reason to remove it from the cliff. Maybe thats where they were setting up base and he didnt want to stare at a dead puppy. Sure, he could have did it nicely...but war hardens people to death. You dont know. Maybe the guy just saw his friend killed. Or maybe he did grow up on a farm. I work in a pet store and occasionally we gotta toss the animals in the garbage if they die...and this means cute little baby bunnies. The new employees get worked up but I dont think its a big deal. Its only hard to do if that animal was close to you and I dont think he had any attachment to the dead puppy.


People feel differently about death. The only reason I think we bury our dead is to finalize it for us and also so we dont have to see our decaying friends body.

So if the puppy was already dead....I dont think this is a big deal....not what I would have done, but nothing to get worked up about.

[Renorei]

IF it's a fake, then I'm saying that someone else got hold of the footage, edited in the yipping noises, in the hopes of making our troops look bad.

When I first saw it, it made the person look like an evil monster, being a Marine has nothing to do with it, good and bad people can be anywhere, the actions of a few really should not reflect everyone in the same group, too bad it does for many.

I agree with you...for me, the actions of one Marine do not influence my sentiments towards all Marines. But, I made that comment based on all the nasty things I've read about this video all over the internet--tons of people are complaining about the military as a whole, not just THIS guy.

I still don't think the outrage that is being directed towards him is justifiable.

If someone throws a living animal off a cliff, they deserve every bit of scorn they get, however, no one should threaten is family, that is where the hate crosses the line, they have nothing to do with his actions.

I disagree. Though I hate animal cruelty, throwing a single puppy off a cliff is really not that big of a deal in the whole scheme of things. He doesn't deserve national and international scorn.

Sometimes people do cruel and stupid things. But that doesn't justify thousands of people ganging up on him.

Depends on what you do, most people do not throw living (if a real video) animal off of cliffs.

Again, it's not that big of a deal. It's cruel and horrible, yes, but there are much bigger fish to worry about (in terms of cruelty). Think about the SCOPE of things...all over the world, people are slaughtering each other over the pettiest of things, children are dying of AIDS and starvation, etc. Killing a puppy doesn't hold a candle to those things.

In all honesty, if that video is real...I'm sure this guy feels pretty remorseful right now anyway.

Doubtful that such a person could be remorseful about such a planed out action, you would not do it in the first place. (Based on it being a real video)
Anyone can use poor judgment, there are some actions that cannot be overlooked as easy as others.

You think it was planned out? I doubt that. If the video is real, it was more than likely almost completely spontaneous. Some people do stupid things on the spur of the moment, and then regret them horribly later.

[Figarou]

ok....after doing some research...I think I know whats going on.

We all know about car bombings, right? Well...I think the Iraqi has gone to a new level. They place bombs inside the carcass of dead animals.

Here is a dead dog with an IED already inside it.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dd4_1193093624

and another
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b52_1191364400



So....if that puppy was already dead, then that Marine had the right idea of disposing it.

[Xiroteus]

I agree with you...for me, the actions of one Marine do not influence my sentiments towards all Marines. But, I made that comment based on all the nasty things I've read about this video all over the internet--tons of people are complaining about the military as a whole, not just THIS guy.

I know, I am not surprised there are thousands of people blaming the entire Marines based on a few people actions, do not know why people think that is an accurate depiction of an entire group of people, quite closed minded of them.

I disagree. Though I hate animal cruelty, throwing a single puppy off a cliff is really not that big of a deal in the whole scheme of things. He doesn't deserve national and international scorn. Again, it's not that big of a deal. It's cruel and horrible, yes, but there are much bigger fish to worry about (in terms of cruelty). Think about the SCOPE of things...all over the world, people are slaughtering each other over the pettiest of things, children are dying of AIDS and starvation, etc. Killing a puppy doesn't hold a candle to those things.

Big deal to me as is all animal cruelty, as well as cruelty to innocent humans, I am strongly against all who harm the innocent human or animal and both will always be a big deal in terms of importance for me. If this guy has really thrown a living dog over a cliff, I would never have anything to do with such a person, somethings cannot be over looked.

You think it was planned out? I doubt that. If the video is real, it was more than likely almost completely spontaneous. Some people do stupid things on the spur of the moment, and then regret them horribly later.

Planed out in the since that they thought about for a few minutes, if the puppy was alive (which is questionable at this time) it goes far beyond a stupid action on the spur of the moment, good people could never do such a thing, if they regret their actions later, at least then they show some sings of having a heart, yet still question how they could do so in the first place.

[Aki]

I have to agree with Renorei. The level of outrage to the video is somewhat disproportional to the f*** up s*** that goes on day by day in Iraq. People die. Lots of them. Not just marines or insurgents or terrorists, but civilians too. And it seems the veracity of the video is questionable as well.

It is bad, and the if the puppy was alive, those guys who threw it off are twats. Marines shouldn't be doing that s***. Not only for ethical reasons, but because they're representatives of America's armed forces. Makes us look bad.

ok....after doing some research...I think I know whats going on.

We all know about car bombings, right? Well...I think the Iraqi has gone to a new level. They place bombs inside the carcass of dead animals.

Here is a dead dog with an IED already inside it.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dd4_1193093624

and another
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b52_1191364400



So....if that puppy was already dead, then that Marine had the right idea of disposing it.

New level?

Fig, that old. That's Vietnam level of old at least.

Hell, the Soviets one-upped the Vietnamese before that. They had living dog-mines. Trained to look for food under tanks and other armored vehicles, they were starved and then set loose with bombs strapped to them - and detonated when they dove under a tank in search of food.

[Terastas]

What I'd like to know is......why make that video? If it is an edited video...then where is the original?

Well, if it's fake, the reasons for such have already been covered. If it's authentic, however, the solution as to why they would make a video could be the same reasons they threw a puppy off a cliff in the first place: a mix of cruelty and stupidity. Some people aren't satisfied with acts of cruelty and/or stupidity; they want a video so they can relive the moment. It's not as uncommon as you think. I've seen more than one instance where a bunch of dumb kids went joyriding pelting pedestrians with paint ball pellets while videotaping it and had their tapes used against them in court. Boxed hunts are another frequent victim of such stupidity; the typical clients of illegal hunts generally expect to get a lot of trophies, so it's common for them to videotape their own crimes in action too.

And regarding the authenticity of the tape, or whether or not the puppy was still alive at the time, that's indeterminable. The fact that they were holding the puppy by his neck means nothing. The back of the neck is the dog's scruff; it's where the mother dog would have held that puppy by. Yes, the puppy wasn't moving, but that's because the natural reaction to getting picked up that way is to go limp.

So that's it: Back to start with no solid evidence to prove that this is real or faked. Man, who would've thought the day would come where I'd be the one saying "Keep it civil everyone" over and over again.

[Baphnedia]

On the comments about the video being fake; there's a second issue to think about:

When over 1,500 US military uniforms were stolen from Bosnia (quite a few years ago), it turned out later that many were bought by Hussein (and others), and even though this video might be a video of a real marine, "American" soldiers executed many families in Iraq, and may have something to do with Iraq 'missing' over 400,000 persons in their prison system (misplaced during Hussein's tenure). There is a lot of misplaced hatred between Iraqis who thought the US murdered their families; and nothing we do or say now will fill the gap.

In a country that only had 20 million to begin with, 400,000 is a pretty significant number. The kind of number you could expect if Stalin or Hitler were previously in charge of Iraq instead of Hussein. In this case of the video, I'd be more interested to see what would come out of an investigation.

[Lukas]

ok....after doing some research...I think I know whats going on.

We all know about car bombings, right? Well...I think the Iraqi has gone to a new level. They place bombs inside the carcass of dead animals.

Here is a dead dog with an IED already inside it.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dd4_1193093624

and another
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b52_1191364400



So....if that puppy was already dead, then that Marine had the right idea of disposing it.

not so new fig, the newest tactic right now is to poison the medical supplies and place time or remote bombs on unsuspecting civilian cars and then blow them up while they are driving around

[Howlitzer]

if the puppy WAS dead to begin with... it still is rather disgusting....but if there was even the possibility of a bomb being hidden inside the thing, I can see what may have been going on in there...

To tell you the truth, I agree with Fgarou.... if I even thought there might be a bomb inside of a dead puppy, I would not be keeping it anywhere near me for very long.
And if it became an ongoing thing with those marines, I can see why they might get used to it to the point of bringing some twisted humor into the matter.

And yeah, I know a couple people with enough of a warped sense of humor to do that to an already dead animal, while at the same time absolutely NOT being the type of person to mistreat a live animal in any way.

[JoshuaMadoc]

I think this thread further proves my belief that we just love to confuse logic with subconsciously-written morals.

Why'd he kill that puppy? Eh, i dunno. The guy's got his "reasons". But really, shouldn't there be other things he can destroy? Or is this guy just so helpless from our sensitivity that persecution's right on his door? Because then he'll have to refrain from killing/destroying other things that's alive. Even the trees.

Not that i condone his actions. Pointlessly wasteful action is counterproductive almost all the time.

But to be honest, this is a question i'm not going to answer, even if you threaten me to. I defecated my morals ages ago.

[Renorei]

And yeah, I know a couple people with enough of a warped sense of humor to do that to an already dead animal, while at the same time absolutely NOT being the type of person to mistreat a live animal in any way.

Quoted for truth.

[WereDragon25]

i SAW THIS AND IT make me want to cry the ... the.... uhhhh, I don't want to be banned or anyhting but, it was apoor puppy, how the... it didn't do... Uhhhhhhhh, humanity is crazy, I am staying in the Pack so I can talk to someoneabout my fury!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just... a... puppy...... Thanks for reading I feel better, I just am a therian and get emotional over dog and animal abuse..........

[Figarou]

New level?

Fig, that old. That's Vietnam level of old at least.

Hell, the Soviets one-upped the Vietnamese before that. They had living dog-mines. Trained to look for food under tanks and other armored vehicles, they were starved and then set loose with bombs strapped to them - and detonated when they dove under a tank in search of food.

I wasn't talking about the tactic being a new level. I was talking about the Iraqi....oh....nevermind.

What I'd like to know is......why make that video? If it is an edited video...then where is the original?

Well, if it's fake, the reasons for such have already been covered. If it's authentic, however, the solution as to why they would make a video could be the same reasons they threw a puppy off a cliff in the first place: a mix of cruelty and stupidity. Some people aren't satisfied with acts of cruelty and/or stupidity; they want a video so they can relive the moment. It's not as uncommon as you think. I've seen more than one instance where a bunch of dumb kids went joyriding pelting pedestrians with paint ball pellets while videotaping it and had their tapes used against them in court. Boxed hunts are another frequent victim of such stupidity; the typical clients of illegal hunts generally expect to get a lot of trophies, so it's common for them to videotape their own crimes in action too.

And regarding the authenticity of the tape, or whether or not the puppy was still alive at the time, that's indeterminable. The fact that they were holding the puppy by his neck means nothing. The back of the neck is the dog's scruff; it's where the mother dog would have held that puppy by. Yes, the puppy wasn't moving, but that's because the natural reaction to getting picked up that way is to go limp.

So that's it: Back to start with no solid evidence to prove that this is real or faked. Man, who would've thought the day would come where I'd be the one saying "Keep it civil everyone" over and over again.

Heh......I know this is fake.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f34_1204843622

[Shadow Wulf]

Lol, I absolutely love that! Great find.

[Terastas]

but if there was even the possibility of a bomb being hidden inside the thing, I can see what may have been going on in there...

If there was a bomb in the puppy, they would have done the one of two things they do with all the bombs they come across: Disarm it, or detonate it. You don't just throw a bomb away and forget about it; until it either goes off or is safely disabled, it's still a risk.

That's why land mines were banned by the Ottawa Treaty: because they'd wind up being buried, forgotten, and be set off by the civilian farmers and whatnot when they try to return to their land. The same goes for IEDs and the like: they pose a risk to troops and civilians alike so long as they're armed, so if the troops did suspect that a dead (verdict is still out on that) puppy did have a bomb on it, I seriously doubt it would ever be recommended that they throw it off a cliff, much less film it and laugh about it.

[Howlitzer]

well I understand THAT, obviously they're not going to huck it off into the distance if they DON'T KNOW if it has a bomb in it or not!

I wouldn't doubt they had already confirmed that there was no bomb in the puppy when they did that.

what I'm saying is if checking for explosives in EVERYTHING, including puppy carcases, got to be such a regular occurrance....when combined with a rather twisted sense of humor to begin with, I can see how those soldiers might find some poorly-thought-out entertainment in "making fun" of what has become such an everyday thing. Video taping it would be a portion of the "poorly-thought-out" part.

As horrible as it looks, if things like that become ordinary for these people, you might become hardened to it and be able to poke fun at things a person otherwise wouldn't even THINK of.




Also, about land mines being banned...that makes sense. But the terrorists we're dealing with, do you honestly think they're going to respect that ban?

[Baphnedia]

Question on Marine uniforms; is it required to have rank or a unit patch on the left shoulder of the uniform?

[Terastas]

Also, about land mines being banned...that makes sense. But the terrorists we're dealing with, do you honestly think they're going to respect that ban?

These are people that will strap a bomb to other human beings; I'd say the rules of warfare are well out the window for them. However, just because the enemy is planting IEDs and sending suicide bombers into coffee shops does not mean the U.S. army does not have to play by the rules either. These people are the enemy because of the way they conduct warfare.

And I wasn't insisting that the terrorists shouldn't be using IEDs, rather that the U.S. army shouldn't leave any they come across intact. It's not like the terrorists care when or where it goes off as long as it kills somebody, so it's the army's job to make sure it either never does go off or to set it off when it can't kill anyone.

[Howlitzer]

what makes you think they WOULD just leave an IED lying around? I believe it is policy to properly dispose of such things so they AREN'T lying around blow up later.

I was also saying the poor puppy probably got thrown after it had, indeed, been confirmed that it was NOT full of explosives. I did not suggest that they threw the thing off into the distance because it did have explosives in it.

Just to clarify.