results of appeasing their urges....

NightmareHero · Post by **NightmareHero** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 10:53 am

I was wondering, after they transform, and if they have appeased their bodily urges, whether that be to eat or to make love, would you like the idea if they were then able to control their transformation, maybe even revert some it to look more human, now that they would have satisfied the wolf inside of them?

Sporty Fox · Post by **Sporty Fox** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:20 am

There should be a price to pay for transfoming, a time for the body to recover from the trauma it has just suffered thru. Also, the thought of partialy returning to a human form doesn't really fit with the idea of being one or the other. What would be the purpose of being half and half? If you have learned to control yourself that well, then you have the same control of your actions while in a wolf state and wouldn't need to only half change would you? I like the idea that after time one would learn to make the change controllably and at will, but the body would want to be in one form or the other, not a state of flux inbetween.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:29 am

A werewolf could possibly supress a shift from occuring in the first place, but the concept I've read about in the "Responses From the Director" forum seems to indicate that shapeshifting is a painful procedure which a beginning werewolf might not be able to endure before his lycanthropic regeneration takes root. Therefore, as Sporty suggested, a werewolf would be too worn out from the shift to even fathom the idea of shifting back. Plus, the canine anatomy would need to be adjusted to. Only a veteran werewolf would possibly consider a partial shift, but then he would have to learn how to move all over again just as he did with his wolf form. It's a possibility, but not a very practical one.

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:40 pm

That depends. This would suggest that the change is triggered primarily by primal urges. Giving in to them could be a way of accepting the form and therefore being at peace with it, thus allowing a bit more controll,(having less to fight against). I don't think any great deal of controll should be made possible to select the "degree" of shift, like,"hmmm...today I think I will be just 23% wolf ."

Being able to supress the shift if the animal urges have allready been satisfied could be interesting. For example; a Were who is feeling the urge to change might grab a chunk of raw meat from the kitchen and chew on it to calm the beast.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:49 pm

Carefull not to grab ideas from White-wolf. They tried to sue the makers of UnderWorld. Don't want that to happen again.

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:00 pm

Figarou wrote:Carefull not to grab ideas from White-wolf. They tried to sue the makers of UnderWorld. Don't want that to happen again.

I know nothing of "white wolf" other than that I've seen it mentioned before, quite frequently. Honestly, it sounds like these people need to lighten up. They can't just use up all of the best ideas and them claim they have exclusive right to use them. (...actually, the law probobly says they can, but it's still obnoxious.

)

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:08 pm

Vuldari wrote:
Figarou wrote:Carefull not to grab ideas from White-wolf. They tried to sue the makers of UnderWorld. Don't want that to happen again.
I know nothing of "white wolf" other than that I've seen it mentioned before, quite frequently. Honestly, it sounds like these people need to lighten up. They can't just use up all of the best ideas and them claim they have exclusive right to use them. (...actually, the law probobly says they can, but it's still obnoxious. )

I hated white-wolf for that.

The werewolves they have has gifts. Kind of like "powers" or "special abilities." Don't be using that. They'll be on you for sure. They also have special names for moon phases. Can't use that. Tribes...not sure about that. But we can't use Silverfangs, Get of Fenris, ETC. Just be carefull on what you guys come up with.

NightmareHero · Post by **NightmareHero** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:11 pm

In other words, no need for fancy RPG terminology that is supposed to go in theaters, and appeal to fans AND the public.

ShadowFang · Post by **ShadowFang** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:41 am

Think-Harder wrote:In other words, no need for fancy RPG terminology that is supposed to go in theaters, and appeal to fans AND the public.

I dunno. Any developed werewolf society is going to have a name for themselves be it a tribe name, a pack name...etc. Werewolves would be social creatures just as much as humans and wolves both are. Now, unless this is a fantasy film, there is no need for magical abilites though. However, there should be ground rules for a social structure to give the film more depth.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:39 pm

Maybe a good way to allow the packs to name themselves and spite White-Wolf at the same time would be to have the packs named for the regions which they occupy. That would avoid the use of any fancy names they claim to have copyrighted, and assuming that only one pack can live in a specific region (the larger the population, the greater the risk of exposure), the names of the packs and their members would still be distinguishable. It would work too, because who in their right mind would try to claim the copyright of the names Harlem, Bronx, or Brooklyn?

Back to the partial shifting... I imagine someone that's had lycanthropy for quite some time could do that (like the way Lucius did in Underworld to squeeze the bullets out of him), but that would require a lot of practice and a lot of concentration. What it would involve, I imagine, is a deep understanding of the principles of lycanthropy, particularly how it alters the body and what causes it to do so.

Werewolf · Post by **Werewolf** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:01 pm

Figarou wrote:Carefull not to grab ideas from White-wolf. They tried to sue the makers of UnderWorld. Don't want that to happen again.

Penny-Arcade did this comic on that, I thought it was funny

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:23 pm

Werewolf wrote:
Figarou wrote:Carefull not to grab ideas from White-wolf. They tried to sue the makers of UnderWorld. Don't want that to happen again.
Penny-Arcade did this comic on that, I thought it was funny

Hmmm...I bet one or 2 White-Wolf folks is lurking in here as guests.

Werewolf · Post by **Werewolf** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:33 pm

Figarou wrote:Hmmm...I bet one or 2 White-Wolf folks is lurking in here as guests.

I liked White-Wolf, but I hated how they let the Werewolf the Apocalypse fans and series down... two things that come to mind are those Werewolf the Apocalypse games and figures they promised that we're coming out with

They did more with vampire crap then the werewolf stuff and for a company called White-Wolf...

I just hope they do more with the new series this time around, the werewolves derserve it.

Silver · Post by **Silver** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:15 am

I promise this flick is about werewolves. There aren’t any vampires. Nope, not one. Not a single one. This is about werewolves from an outsider’s point of view and from an insider’s point of view. That doesn’t leave room for a vampire point of view. So don’t be expecting any vampire/werewolf gunfights with silver or ultraviolet bullets. It’s just us duckies.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 12:25 am

Silver wrote:I promise this flick is about werewolves. There aren’t any vampires. Nope, not one. Not a single one. This is about werewolves from an outsider’s point of view and from an insider’s point of view. That doesn’t leave room for a vampire point of view. So don’t be expecting any vampire/werewolf gunfights with silver or ultraviolet bullets. It’s just us duckies.

quack...I mean...cool.

No leeches!!

ChaosWolf · Post by **ChaosWolf** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 2:24 am

Silver wrote:It’s just us duckies.

I'm gonna start using that line somewhere... It's kind of a fun, quirky way of saying "Everything's normal" or "No problems here"...

Man: "Dude, I swear, something weird's goin' on around here..."

Human-form Werewolf: "Nothing goin' on here, man. It's just us duckies."

Man: "Yeah... wait, what?"

Silverfang · Post by **Silverfang** » Tue Dec 28, 2004 5:19 am

Figarou wrote:
Silver wrote:I promise this flick is about werewolves. There aren’t any vampires. Nope, not one. Not a single one. This is about werewolves from an outsider’s point of view and from an insider’s point of view. That doesn’t leave room for a vampire point of view. So don’t be expecting any vampire/werewolf gunfights with silver or ultraviolet bullets. It’s just us duckies.

quack...I mean...cool.

No leeches!!

Too right no leaches.....

One thing if WhiteWolf copywrote my name.... am i breaking the law?

ChaosWolf

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:11 pm

Don't knock White Wolf back too much.

For those who have no idea what the heck we're talking about, White Wolf Game Studio is the publisher of Werewolf: the Apocalypse, a role-playing game about werewolf society. That game was created as a followup to their highly successful Vampire: the Masquerade. (Both games are now out of print, but the same publishers have now put out a new version of each, using a different world setting but the same basic game mechanics.)

Werewolf: the Apocalypse first came out in 1993, though two revised editions followed, along with numerous spin-offs, at least one alternate version set in the Old West, and countless suppliments. Needless to say, they have been accused of being so prolific for the sake of marketing.

But, I have waded through a lot of werewolf fan fiction, and many elements seem to be inspired by White Wolf's concepts. Before they published that game, the only other well-known storyline to pursue seriously werewolves as a society rather than one rogue individual and the ubiquitous guy who gets bitten is the Howling movie series, and past the first (which really rocked), believe me, the game doesn't look bad at all.

But, White Wolf's game went a few steps further in laying groundwork. It's the first well-distributed and well-published source outside of Teen Wolf to portray werewolves benevolently, and in fact portrays them as tragically heroic figures. (It still is a very violent game, however. Werewolves actually have Rage points. I kid you not.) Furthermore, it's the first well-published storyline to promote the concept of werewolves as defenders of Earth's biosphere and life essense, and the storyline has an extremely strong environmentally conscious theme. (The werewolves are very metaphysical, worshipping Gaea, basically the Earth Goddess, and fighting against the Wyrm, a corrupting force. One of the most prominant villains aligned with the Wyrm is the corporation Pentex, a conglomeration of companies with the secret ultimate goal of world domination, and the first step of that plan is to destroy Earth's natural environment so that humans are totally dependent on machines and technology.)

It laid a lot of ground-work for getting werewolves out of the monster mythos and into something more metaphysical, and its publishing date conveniently falls fairly close to the start of the therianthropy movement. (alt.horror.werewolves was started in late 1992; I was there. The concept of spiritual therianthropy emerged gradually over 1993 through 1995, though I do admit that discussion of the game was if I remember right limited mostly to brief reviews.)

Granted, someone else probably came up with a lot of this stuff long before, but White Wolf's game was the first contemporary bit of work to popularize it. For that reason, I feel it deserves more than the usual bashing. Yes, White Wolf horrifically mangled some lore. (My gaming friend Thomas rants to no end on that point.) Yes, they sued Underworld, and I'm not fond of anyone who sues over intellectual property rights unless it really has harmed them (and the movie was really more free publicity.) But, to their credit, Underworld was a rip-off. (I can do a blow-by-blow. It was originally scripted as an adaptation of White Wolf's two games, but the game publisher backed down, so in order to save a good idea, they tried to edit out the specific references, but they did not do so completely. For example, they used heavily the term "abomination" to describe a lycanthropic vampire; that is the specific world-specific jargon lingo of both werewolves and vampires for a combined werewolf / vampire, and Underworld didn't just say it once, they flaunted the word choice. Before I saw the movie or knew any of this, my very first impression was that it was or might as well have been a movie about the two games. Not that I'm defending an idiotic law suit, any more than I'd sue any patient who refers other people to my medical practice.)

But, White Wolf's game deserves more than the werewolf fandom community has been giving it, considering how many of you probably played the game at least once or twice. (Admit it!)

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:18 pm

Oh, and Silverfang, I'm not a lawyer, but... (I'm a doctor, so I've been waiting for a chance to say I'm not something.)

I would expect that your name should be legit. It's all a matter of context. If you lead a tribe of werewolves known for their royal lineage or who were reknown among werewolf society, or if you named a pack of werewolves after yourself, you might have problems.

Then again, people sue McDonalds because they're too fat. "When will you rage?" White Wolf asks. Well, now you know.

Apokryltaros · Post by **Apokryltaros** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:56 pm

Scott Gardener wrote: Then again, people sue McDonalds because they're too fat. "When will you rage?" White Wolf asks. Well, now you know.

I'd rage, too, if someone called me "fat" and poured hot McDonald's coffee on me.

SGrayWolf · Post by **SGrayWolf** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:16 am

I have decks of "Rage" by White Wolf that I bought quite a few years ago but I have never played the game with anyone. Mainly, I had bought it because it did have to do with werewolves and the artwork on the cards were nifty looking. I have quite a few different older card games that have been rarely played to not-at-all. *chuckles*

ChaosWolf · Post by **ChaosWolf** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:47 am

Apokryltaros wrote:
Scott Gardener wrote: Then again, people sue McDonalds because they're too fat. "When will you rage?" White Wolf asks. Well, now you know.
I'd rage, too, if someone called me "fat" and poured hot McDonald's coffee on me.

Hell, if that happened to me, I probably would not even bother shifting before attempting to tear them a new tailhole.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 3:56 am

SGrayWolf wrote:I have decks of "Rage" by White Wolf that I bought quite a few years ago but I have never played the game with anyone. Mainly, I had bought it because it did have to do with werewolves and the artwork on the cards were nifty looking. I have quite a few different older card games that have been rarely played to not-at-all. *chuckles*

Want to know something. I had every RAGE card you can think of. You name it, I had it. I even had the tournament foil card called. "Wolf home" Got rid of them in favor of home theater.

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