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My friend and I have very indepth discussions about what a 'real' werewolf is and what makes them that way. The basis of all our discussions is the folklore, the sterotypes, the diseases, and societital standing.

\What my friend talks about most, his view of werewo9lf, is the distinction between the beast in the man and the man. His is a very mental view in which the man and wolf are two seperate minds that are constantly at odds. ( A steppenwolf type deal if you've read the book.) In these people they appear mentally ill, even violently so.

My discussion in werewolf thoughts always goes toward the more spiritual, in which not only do you feel the beast but you are the beast. This view is more of a one soul in another body, or a union between man and animal. In this type of view becoming one with the beast or your own nature is like a state of enlightenment where all things just make sense.

Usually these discussions fall in when trying to think up a werewolf story or a character that isn't so stereotypical. I would just like some thoughts on it. The mental and/or spiritual wolf.

My idea of a werewolf's mind and spirit is like this extended metaphor:

You open up a dusty doorway in your mind, and behind that doorway is a vast and primordial forest, a forest that for all intents and purposes, is the real essence of nature. You step through the doorway... and you fall in love with the natural beauty there, and the sounds, sights, and senses of the woods. But, if you let that passion overwhelm you... you can get lost in the woods and forget where you came from. Some people might think losing oneself to the woods is a blessing, and become more at peace with nature than ever before, though they lose their humanity; others might go feral, and turn violent, and aggressive.

So there you go. I think the wolf spirit is a kind of transcendence to a more natural state, which can be exciting, but also overwhelming. I certainly don't think a werewolf is at odds with that side... I agree with your idea that becoming a werewolf is more like a harmony of man and beast--but there's definitely the possibility that a meager human being, unprepared for the sheer power and majesty of it, can lose himself to it. A werewolf wanting to control his animalistic passions should always remember that the door swings both ways.

What I would argue is that there are not literally two separate minds, but rather two different ways the mind may peceive the world around him.

The mind experiences the world in terms of sight, sound, smell, taste and touch. The mind is capable of reasoning, memory etc., but its relation to the world is defined entirely by the eyes, ears, nose, etc.

What that means is that, when a werewolf transforms and acquires different eyes, different ears, a different nose, etc., it doesn't necessarily change the mind, but it chances the way the mind perceives the world, which in turn changes the way the mind responds to it.

Everything that originally made the werewolf a human: the reasoning, the beliefs, the memory -- all the internal functions are all still there unchanged, but the information being processed to the brain from the sensory organs will be vastly different. For a werewolf, it may feel as if the entire world around them has changed.

What we both start from is that the body does not need to change for the wolf and man mind/spirit to be considered at odds of unified. In other words, we both totally leave the physical change out of it. What we discuss and argue over is whether a werewolf is at odds with a seperate entity inside of them (mentall/spiritually) or if a werewolf is actually a one soul/mind being in a human skin. The reason we don't consider the physical change of the werewolf in our discussion is because we don't think a physical change is needed to be considered a werewolf. It never crossed our minds. that brings in a whole lot of different things, like:
"Do you NEED a physical change to be considered a werewolf? Do you simply need a multi-faceted soul, dual nature, or the spirit/identity of a wolf?"

Physical change is essential for the definition of a werewolf. A "multi-faceted soul" sounds like you're talking about therianism, which is a real spiritual claim with a good number of members on these very boards. Werewolves and therians are only tangentially related in that the former is often a subject of interest for the latter. "Clinical lycanthropy" is also defined by the kind of "dual nature" you're referring to, although again, it's a psychological phenomenon, and I certainly wouldn't call patients with the disease werewolves.

Berserker wrote:My idea of a werewolf's mind and spirit is like this extended metaphor:

You open up a dusty doorway in your mind, and behind that doorway is a vast and primordial forest, a forest that for all intents and purposes, is the real essence of nature. You step through the doorway... and you fall in love with the natural beauty there, and the sounds, sights, and senses of the woods. But, if you let that passion overwhelm you... you can get lost in the woods and forget where you came from. Some people might think losing oneself to the woods is a blessing, and become more at peace with nature than ever before, though they lose their humanity; others might go feral, and turn violent, and aggressive.

So there you go. I think the wolf spirit is a kind of transcendence to a more natural state, which can be exciting, but also overwhelming. I certainly don't think a werewolf is at odds with that side... I agree with your idea that becoming a werewolf is more like a harmony of man and beast--but there's definitely the possibility that a meager human being, unprepared for the sheer power and majesty of it, can lose himself to it. A werewolf wanting to control his animalistic passions should always remember that the door swings both ways.

I agree to what berserker said the wolf is like a protector of nature

Moonwatcher wrote:

Berserker wrote:My idea of a werewolf's mind and spirit is like this extended metaphor:

You open up a dusty doorway in your mind, and behind that doorway is a vast and primordial forest, a forest that for all intents and purposes, is the real essence of nature. You step through the doorway... and you fall in love with the natural beauty there, and the sounds, sights, and senses of the woods. But, if you let that passion overwhelm you... you can get lost in the woods and forget where you came from. Some people might think losing oneself to the woods is a blessing, and become more at peace with nature than ever before, though they lose their humanity; others might go feral, and turn violent, and aggressive.

So there you go. I think the wolf spirit is a kind of transcendence to a more natural state, which can be exciting, but also overwhelming. I certainly don't think a werewolf is at odds with that side... I agree with your idea that becoming a werewolf is more like a harmony of man and beast--but there's definitely the possibility that a meager human being, unprepared for the sheer power and majesty of it, can lose himself to it. A werewolf wanting to control his animalistic passions should always remember that the door swings both ways.

I agree to what berserker said the wolf is like a protector of nature

Errr I didn't say that a werewolf is the protector of nature.

Only that their spirit is of nature and that the wolf is not conflicting with the man.

Although protector of nature is a type of werewolf character that I like.

Berserker wrote:Physical change is essential for the definition of a werewolf. A "multi-faceted soul" sounds like you're talking about therianism, which is a real spiritual claim with a good number of members on these very boards. Werewolves and therians are only tangentially related in that the former is often a subject of interest for the latter. "Clinical lycanthropy" is also defined by the kind of "dual nature" you're referring to, although again, it's a psychological phenomenon, and I certainly wouldn't call patients with the disease werewolves.

There is a book called Steppenwolf anf from what I've read so far it is about a man at odds with his wolfish or beastly self, a dual-natured. It is considered a core book for making or viewing werewolves. But from what i've seen there is no physical change, it is very much a realistic fiction. I'm not sure I would cosider the physical change the essential part of being werewolf, maybe the mental shift in thinking or behaving.

Fair Fanged Wolf wrote:

Berserker wrote:Physical change is essential for the definition of a werewolf. A "multi-faceted soul" sounds like you're talking about therianism, which is a real spiritual claim with a good number of members on these very boards. Werewolves and therians are only tangentially related in that the former is often a subject of interest for the latter. "Clinical lycanthropy" is also defined by the kind of "dual nature" you're referring to, although again, it's a psychological phenomenon, and I certainly wouldn't call patients with the disease werewolves.

It is considered a core book for making or viewing werewolves.

By whom?

In a post-modern world of analytical philosophy, the werewolf is definitely a being of many colours. However, werewolves have been defined by physical transformation for centuries, by countless myths and legends. Whichever ancient European coined the term "werewolf" certainly didn't have psychoanalysis in mind; he was probably thinking more along the lines of big teeth and scary claws.

I know Blood & Chocolate referenced Steppenwolf, but other than that, the novel doesn't have anything to do with werewolves in any classical sense.

One could possibly make a deduction connecting the theme of the novel (a psychoanalytical treatise on Nietzschean and Jungian concepts of "self") with werewolfism, but honestly, I would consider the Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde to be far more influential for the werewolf media of the 20th century. (It also predates Steppenwolf by a few decades.)