THE PACK Message Boards

Earth day is here. It's both good, and bad.

THE GOOD: Getting people to become NATURAL conservationists. Buying what you need to live by, recycling, making sure we have clean air and water. Getting away from foreign oil, or off it completely. Making the best out of the resources we have. Creating new jobs in the rapidly advancing alternative energy markets. Trying as best you can to make a better world not JUST for the children of the future, but for those of us who are currently ALIVE as well. generally learning to appreciate the Earth and how both incredibly resilient and fragile it can be. ALL...GOOD...THINGS.


THE BAD: Overly aggressive campaigns. Using SCARE TACTICS. FORCING others to adhere to what you THINK is the right way to conserve. Banning things like incandescent bulbs and trying to pass it off as a "NECESSARY" thing.Burning down Hummer dealerships and new housing developments. Blaming rich people for everything. And the really frightening attitude among radicals that in order for change to truly happen, the more affluent have to become as poor as the poorest people on Earth.

just my two cents.

I couldn't agree more. Conservation, within reason, is a perfectly good idea.

the more whacko conservationists, who go so far overboard that it makes my hair hurt... I can't stand them.

Almost as much as I can't stand vegetarians or vegans trying to guilt-trip me into giving up bacon.

Eh I've always thought Earth Day had superficially good intentions but no impact on our society's perceptions of the environment (much like conservationism as a whole.) Nothing short of a total keystone resource collapse (no more oil, now what?) would start to reverse our preference for quantity over quality, which is I think at the heart of environmental degradation.

So I don't rail against, nor do I happily promote, Earth Day.

Well, it is called Earth Day, not Eco-Terrorism Day

Go Earth!

Hey at least they aren't bombing us with plant bombs

That's a use of garlic and onions I hadn't thought about before... now where's my brick of C4?

Oh seriously, it's just ONE day for Earth. Enjoy it and Do your part!

And florescent bulbs are a helluva lot more utilitarian than incandescent. All you have to do is WAIT a few seconds for it to start -- but it's cheaper, efficient, and last longer. Banning incandescent helps YOU.

And the really frightening attitude among radicals that in order for change to truly happen, the more affluent have to become as poor as the poorest people on Earth.

Not really. For the majority of money is sitting in the few hands of the minority rich, nearly everyone in America can live just as easily as Middle-Class citizens, if not much better. Which, being middle class, I may not be able to buy a new car on the whim, but I live fat, spoiled, and happy anyways. There's really no reason to think that lessening the Rich-Poor divide is going to "spread the butter too thin" and make us all poor.

Burning down Hummer dealerships and new housing developments

Well, that I can utterly agree with. Organizations such as ELF/ALF are terribly, well, screwed up, y'know?

Uhhh...Outward;

I think you switched Fluorescent for Incandescent in your post, maybe.

Happy Earth Day!

The trees are content, the woodland animals are happy as they enjoy their lands and homes. The sky is clear and blue. The cool breeze whips your face that makes you breath fresh air again.

I always loved Mother Earth for she is loves us all. She cries for her pain because of the corrupted humans damaging and destroying part of her planet, but she still loves us and we are always welcomed to live on this beautiful planet.

I'd settle for knowing when am I ever going to get some of this global warming that I've been promised for the last few years...

Midnight wrote:I'd settle for knowing when am I ever going to get some of this global warming that I've been promised for the last few years...

ditto to that...

If you ask me the Global Warming issue is such an over-dramatized pile of cr@p that it distracts from the real issues that humans actually *do* cause and *can* do something about in the immediate future: primarily, pollution.

Would you rather be worried about preventing a slightly warmer planet 50 years from now, when we can't even predict the weather a week from now, or a planet where you can actually breathe the air in much less time?


This is going to sound really bad...but I've put plenty of thought into it.
The only reason Global Warming has gathered so much hype is probably this:

-We can't directly see it, unlike pollution. So, it becomes this big, looming, invisible threat.
-There's no proving 100% that it's us causing it (unlike pollution). The Earth DOES undergo natural climate change...because the climate changes all the time.
-Even if it doesn't exist, people can still say it's coming, and people will still remain in fear of it....for it will perpetually be around the corner.

The very fact that it can become a never-ending issue would make it an excellent source of money for certain political or environmentalist groups.

Just to make it funnier yesturda was also Oklahoma LandRun day! (Don't forget to praise Oklahoma!)

Regardless if global warming exists or not, it's still good to help our Earth in any way we can. And there is no doubt in my mind that humans have severely impacted the environment in more bad ways than good. There is no need to be radical environmentalists or Al Gore, but if there is something wrong with the planet we live on, shouldn't it be our duty to help fix it? Not at the complete expense of human life and society, but still...

RedEye wrote:Uhhh...Outward;

I think you switched Fluorescent for Incandescent in your post, maybe.

THANKS MAN.

Let me edit that. *feels like a dumbass*

Howlitzer wrote:

Midnight wrote:I'd settle for knowing when am I ever going to get some of this global warming that I've been promised for the last few years...

ditto to that...

If you ask me the Global Warming issue is such an over-dramatized pile of cr@p that it distracts from the real issues that humans actually *do* cause and *can* do something about in the immediate future: primarily, pollution.

Would you rather be worried about preventing a slightly warmer planet 50 years from now, when we can't even predict the weather a week from now, or a planet where you can actually breathe the air in much less time?


This is going to sound really bad...but I've put plenty of thought into it.
The only reason Global Warming has gathered so much hype is probably this:

-We can't directly see it, unlike pollution. So, it becomes this big, looming, invisible threat.
-There's no proving 100% that it's us causing it (unlike pollution). The Earth DOES undergo natural climate change...because the climate changes all the time.
-Even if it doesn't exist, people can still say it's coming, and people will still remain in fear of it....for it will perpetually be around the corner.

The very fact that it can become a never-ending issue would make it an excellent source of money for certain political or environmentalist groups.

Well, you're forgetting something. If we listen to the anti global-warming crowd and they're wrong, we've still warded off peak oil and reduced our independence on the Middle East. If we listen to you, and you're wrong SOCIETY f*** GOES INTO CHAOS AND COLLAPSES!

uh....wow....jesus.

Dreamer, you totally missed the point of what I said....I'm not telling people to abandon all notions of conservation....

I'm saying there's so many other issues ASIDE FROM global warming that we should PRIMARILY focus on....

such as pollution, and conservation of what natural resources we have...

If we focused primarily on those, reaching a goal of a cleaner planet is a much, much more feasable goal than trying to prevent our planet from warming up, when so much information contradicts all claims of our ability to have such an effect on the earth...

I mean, keeping our air clean and conserving our natural resources are problems which we ABSOLUTELY have an effect on and CAN ABSOLUTELY DO SOMETHING ABOUT NOW...
Global Warming is a theory, with much less basis in fact than people give it credit for.

Aiming for these goals, instead of global warming...would entail many of the same things....it just goes at a much more real issue in a more logical way. We would still explore alternative fuels, if anything because oil is a limited resource, it pollutes, and we are too reliant on it.

How would focusing more on clean air and conservation of our resources, rather than trying to prevent a theoretical, human-induced warming trend....CAUSE SOCIETY TO COLLAPSE?! HOW?! Tell me!




If anything it comes down to this:

Global warming...i.e. a global warming trend caused by man-made greenhouse gases----the greenhouse effect is a function of Nature which is overwhelmingly out of our control. If you run all the numbers....less than 1% of the greenhouse effect is caused by us. The climate, when looking at Earth over a geological timescale (on the order of millions of years or so) IS ALWAYS IN A STATE OF FLUX. Countless natural cycles, all interacting, ALL out of our control, cause these changes in vastly unpredictable ways. Small variations, short term warming or cooling trends, sudden spikes or drops in temperature....ALL OF THESE HAVE BEEN PROVEN TO HAVE HAPPENED LONG BEFORE MAN WAS A FACTOR....and many were of an equal or greater degree than the "global warming" we see today.

Furthermore....any small, inadvertent effect we may have on the greenhouse effect is one thing...TRYING TO PURPOSEFULLY EFFECT IT IS A BAD IDEA. Once we start going crazy over the global warming issue as our *primary* environmental concern....Scientists will surely come up with more direct, effective ways of "correcting" the supposed problem will arise. This would eventually amount to screwing around with a very complex, very powerful natural system...which we DO NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND. Would you really want to f*ck up Earth's thermostat while trying to fix a problem that might not even exist?!

On the other hand...

-Man-made pollution, destruction of animal habitats, and the depletion of limited natural resources----these are things that are, with 100% certainty, 100% caused my mankind. WE CAN DEFINITELY DO SOMETHING ABOUT THESE THINGS. WE SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT THESE THINGS. Focusing on these issues won't as easily cause the natural balance of the planet to suddenly fall apart.

Howlitzer wrote:uh....wow....jesus.

Dreamer, I'm not telling people to abandon all notions of conservation....

I'm saying there's so many other issues ASIDE FROM global warming that we could PRIMARILY focus on....

such as pollution, and conservation of what natural resources we have...

If we focused primarily on those, reaching a goal of a cleaner planet is a much, much more feasable goal.

I mean, keeping our air clean and conserving our natural resources are problems which we ABSOLUTELY have an effect on and CAN ABSOLUTELY DO SOMETHING ABOUT NOW...
Global Warming is a theory, with much less basis in fact than people give it credit for.

How would focusing more on clean air and conservation of our resources, rather than trying to prevent a theoretical, human-induced warming trend....CAUSE SOCIETY TO COLLAPSE?! HOW?! Tell me!

Dreamer's raging tonight. Is there a full moon out?

Howlitzer: I really applaud you for saying that!

I'm ALL in for conservation of the enviroment and lessening our "enviromental foot print" (I'd be a terrible liberal-greenie if I didn't, afterall.), but whenever someone asks my opinion on Global Warming (or, CLIMATE CHANGE, as has somehow become the new term.) I always argue that it doesn't matter IF or WHEN Global Warming is affecting us. But that it's pretty much agreeable to everyone, regardless of opinion or insight, that we ARE harming the enviroment and we SHOULD take action against it.

Beserker: I believe it was two nights ago.

My friend is pro-environment and pro-global warming. His theory is that the only way the earth will ever be free of human pollution is if humans are eliminated, and the best way to do that is to let us continue to destroy the planet with global warming. Eventually all humans will die off and the earth will restabalize in a mellenium or two. All environment problems solved!

But really, do you really expect us to change? A clean environment would be great, but that would mean giving up cars, and plastic, and a whole lot of other things we've become acustomed to. Humans are very selfish creatures, and even though they agree that something must be done, they wont make any sacrifices that directly affect them. You have to fix a natural flaw in human nature before humans will fix the natural world.

Uh, they're still trying to make environmentally friendly cars, you know. We may be selfish, but we're not always idiots.

Kelpten wrote:My friend is pro-environment and pro-global warming. His theory is that the only way the earth will ever be free of human pollution is if humans are eliminated, and the best way to do that is to let us continue to destroy the planet with global warming. Eventually all humans will die off and the earth will restabalize in a mellenium or two. All environment problems solved!

But really, do you really expect us to change? A clean environment would be great, but that would mean giving up cars, and plastic, and a whole lot of other things we've become acustomed to. Humans are very selfish creatures, and even though they agree that something must be done, they wont make any sacrifices that directly affect them. You have to fix a natural flaw in human nature before humans will fix the natural world.

Well unless you want a mass suicide cult to get rid of all humans.....

But I still stick by what I say. We are a mixed bunch. Our selfishness is from nature anyway. All animals are selfish to a degree. Its to make sure they get their needs and survive. Its no excuse but it provides us with some reasoning. We are good, evil and every shade in between. Its just titing it so getting greener is better for everyone. No one seems to want to pay huge amounts (For example, a tax proposal based on your miles for cars here in the Uk was met with a massive backlash. Even now plastic bags are in dispute) for this. Education-Incentives and laws that will help and not be stupid things like banning bulbs will do far more help. Teach this at primary schools. Get them to do nature trips and help them enjoy early on the environment around them. As they grow up you can teach them the environmental issues we are facing and what can be done. Offer courses and school trips! In my mind that would go a long way.

Dammit Matt, we already talked about this. You want to get something off your chest, use the "Venting" thread.

Besides, it's just one freakin' day out of a year of 365. Considering minorities get entire national weeks/months of awareness, I think it's only fair that the entire freakin' planet gets at least one day for awareness.

If you don't like Earth Day, just do what I do every year around Valentine's Day: Wait until the day after, pick up some discounted holiday cupcakes from the grocery store and be glad you won't hear a single thing about the holiday for another full year.

I object to that Terastas. This is not a vent at all. Matt mearly summed up the good and the bad of Earth Day. He did not say "OMG EARTHZ DAY SUKCZ LOLOLOLOLOLO". Instead Matt summed up what he thinks of the day. Maybe he felt like everyone was over this day, I can not say but he has every right to have this topic. I would also like to see where he said he hated the day. Just because somone say's something negative on an event does not mean they dislike it. What if he weighed up Christmas like that? Would it be said that he dislikes thats too.

This topic has a good amount of discussion value. Its fine.

Yeah. That's what I said Earth day is good, AND bad. up to now no one's been able to prove whether global warming is really as bad as they say. Since I don't believe a word the government says, I'm not going to believe what a bunch of scientists say either.

Hell the same boomers stumping for global warming are the ones who were also smoking like chimneys in the 1950's/ even doctors used to say smoking was good for you.

EVERYONE'S clueless:}

MattSullivan wrote:Yeah. That's what I said Earth day is good, AND bad. up to now no one's been able to prove whether global warming is really as bad as they say. Since I don't believe a word the government says, I'm not going to believe what a bunch of scientists say either.

Hell the same boomers stumping for global warming are the ones who were also smoking like chimneys in the 1950's/ even doctors used to say smoking was good for you.

EVERYONE'S clueless:}

it's ironic you say that Matt, because the doctors who said that smoking wasn't bad for you were being paid off and misinformed by the tobacco companies, just like the scientists who say global warming isn't real are being paid off and misinformed by Big Oil and Big Coal.

And why don't you beleive scientists? I actually consider them more beleivable because more often thamn most people, they aren't doing their research for ideology but for truth, continuign to speak out even when they face the risk of being fired for their beleifs.