It's time to drill for oil....NOW!!!

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:36 pm

Or are we going to wait until gas is 10$ a gallon or more, and you cannot drive to work....cannot afford food...cannot afford medicine. And if those of you who tend to lean left or toward fascist views on environmentalism just wait. Just wait until this starts to affect you. ( and it will )

Drilling will NOT fix the problem outright...but it will put a stop to such rapid climbs in prices and supply and demand problems, while we seek alternatives for the future.

Problem is, every time someone proposes drilling for new oil ( and we have 139 BILLION barrels under U.S. soil ) congress rejects it, just like they did today.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,365627,00.html

Get off the couch. Demand drilling. DEMAND better mileage for cars. DEMAND an end to regulations that would have allowed the sale of cleaner, more efficient cars 20 years ago. DEMAND nuclear power, because it is far cleaner than it was 20 years ago...and AVAILABLE.

OPEC has declared economic war against the people ( not just America, but any nation that uses oil ) I'm FOR alternative energy. I still am. I was 30 years ago! But we...need...OIL.

CONTACT YOUR LOCAL REPRESENTATIVES AND STATE SENATORS AND TELL THEM HOW YOU FEEL!

*sits back and waits for the super-greenies to tell me I'm wrong*

Berserker · Post by **Berserker** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:27 pm

Drilling is like slapping a bandaid onto a stack of bandaids. No one is going to "seek alternatives for the future." Drill for more oil and people are only going to manufacture and buy more SUVs. Consumerism demands the easy way out; the chances of positive energy reform with billions of gallons of oil floating around are slim to none. In the meantime, we'll have taken an unnecessary chunk out of the environment and prolonged our inevitable oil crisis by a few decades.

Of course, it doesn't really matter anyway. Get desperate enough and we'll drill, and the scenario I described will still happen. It's a lose/lose.

We could have had fusion power already if they dumped a trillion dollars into it. Yet the same people who don't like oil don't like nuclear power either.

Nothing short of an energy apocalypse will turn us around.

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:16 pm

You know, FOX news isn't exactly a reliable source.

Regarding alternative energy: the technology exists, but it's not being properly pursued and/or invested in.

Berserker · Post by **Berserker** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:42 pm

Terastas wrote:You know, FOX news isn't exactly a reliable source.

Well... either they rejected it or they didn't. In this case they did.

MattSullivan · Post by **MattSullivan** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:03 pm

As I said above, this isn't meant to be a long term solution and I guarantee you, yes, people ARE looking for a longer term solution. For now we have an economy that runs on petrolium.

Howlitzer · Post by **Howlitzer** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:11 pm

Ok first off... don't discount it simply because there was reference to FOX news. No news source is unbiased. The "truth" on any issue involving politics depends on where you stand, so even the most biased, unreliable source is going to be the unbiased, reliable source for somebody else.

Second... I agree with Matt here. Putting all the paranoia and accusations of conspiracy ASIDE.....we need more nuclear power, and we need to get the oil we know is there in order to survive and get past our need for it....

$10 per gallon gas as an *incentive* to come up with alternatives is cr@p, it will do just the opposite. The technology IS developing, it IS close. To name a couple:

-solar power is becoming more efficient.... solar-electric materials which could be embedded in virtually any surface and which collect ....including the ASPHALT on roads...is under development

-new Lithium Ion battery technology, in lab tests, is proving to increase the gas mileage in Hybrid cars to over 100 MPG. This is something that now EXISTS.....the only problem is it's too expensive now, but that changes with time, research, and more development... which IS happening.

If we don't get the oil and utilize the other sources of energy that we KNOW exist and we CAN use now, we won't make it to the point where we don't need the oil anymore. We'll be too financially crippled to do anything. Saying "nobody is going to even try to get us past our need for oil"....well that's so defeatist I don't know what to say. Just because a lot of people out there might be stupid, doesn't mean there aren't people out there who ARE actively trying to find something, and who ARE making progress that just isn't publicized because the media doesn't care. I fail to see why you'd think NOBODY would do anything...some people might be stupid, a lot of people might be stupid, but there are some smart ones out there.

Berserker · Post by **Berserker** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:38 pm

The problem with solar cells and lithium ion batteries is that they aren't a currency. As MattSullivan pointed out, entire economies subsist on fossil fuels. The very means to manufacture things like solar cells and batteries depend not only on fossil fuels, but on the economic systems that require them. They've been square one for human technology for over a hundred years. A new weltanschauung will be necessary to change this, and I predict a largely chaotic and violent destabilization surrounding such a change. A handful of concerned scientists researching their butts off doesn't mean much in the face of it.

Silverclaw · Post by **Silverclaw** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:53 pm

Oil Companies and the people in power(Who oil companies pay) will not focus on alternative power for cars and such till they get as much money as possible from everyone. I think its more greed raising prices than not enough oil.

If we need oil so bad, it would be easier to just take the oil from Arab Land. Already in a war right? *shrugs*
lol

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:33 am

Let it rise.

Because if s*** sucks, then people will want alternate energy. Alternate energy based power companies will prosper. THe alt energy cars will be wanted like no tomorrow.

Necessity is the mother of invention. If we drill, we'll retard the NEED for alternate sources, thus retarding the development of said sources.

IndianaJones · Post by **IndianaJones** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:57 am

In my city, the gas prices increased by 10 cents. First it was 4.49, 4.59, and 4.69. Then the next two days, it increased to 4.59, 4.69, and 4.79. My mother was furious to see the prices risen up in just several days. Man, it is trouble for all of us. I wish we can just teleport to a corresponding area we want and a high speed hover car to travel without the need of gasoline, just the earth's atmosphere to run.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:56 am

Mexico is now importing more oil which means faster inflation of gas prices and with the rising value of Euros that means we have to pay more per barrel. To make it even worse, our oil import has risen from 60% to 68% in the last two years, the fact that we keep importing more and more oil is likely a great factor for gas prices going up. Personally I think the drilling of oil in our own country should just be as reserve, when oil prices and scarcity becomes too much for the nation we will then start drilling more oil in the US and then other countries will still be fighting savagely for imported oil.

One thing I am surprise that no one mention is the Clean Coal Technology which is trying to replace Nuclear Power Plants. Its still in its testing phase because its too costly and they are trying to make it environmentally friendly. Im sort of hoping this will succeed (along with a few others) because Coal is one thing we have plenty of in this nation, enough to last for hundreds of years. But the draw back is that its not reusable resource and it involves lots of mining.
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf83.html

The rise of oil prices is the best thing to happen for this planet in a long time, now we have more gas efficient vehicles, pickups and SUVs aren't as much of a gas hogs like they use to be and stupid people aren't buying V8 F150 Pick ups or something similar just for looks, now if your gonna get a truck like that then you better have a use for it. These days people have now became more earth friendly than back in the 90s. Alternative fuel companies are getting the attention and recognition that they are thriving for. Like Aki said, Necessity is the mother of invention.

Howlitzer · Post by **Howlitzer** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:14 am

I don't see why we have to replace Nuclear Power plants with Coal. Seriously. Nuclear Power is now all-around safer and cleaner than Coal (even though coal isn't radioactive....more workers die trying to get coal than they do getting nuclear material)....and you can actually re-use the nuclear material multiple times.

If they make Coal cleaner...I can see using it alongside nuclear....but we still NEED MORE NUCLEAR, even if people are just afraid of it....many other countries are doing it, why not us?

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:33 am

Silverclaw wrote:Oil Companies and the people in power(Who oil companies pay) will not focus on alternative power for cars and such till they get as much money as possible from everyone. I think its more greed raising prices than not enough oil.

It's also the oil companies and the people in power campaigning to drill more oil instead of researching and/or developing new resources. The oil companies themselves are posting record profits; they didn't raise prices because they needed to, they did it just because they could. Given the option, we'd already be paying $10 a gallon if they thought they could get away with it.

That's why I don't support any additional drilling: because these dicks have profited enough already and we should be working to reduce, and eventually eliminate altogether, our dependency on oil ASAP. Instead of giving them more money to just push the deadline back, we should invest that money in developing the alternative and hopefully get rid of the problem completely.

Ebony · Post by **Ebony** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:31 am

We have the same problem in Norway too now, too expensive gas, and we do have alot of oil in Norway...
I don't know so much about this but maby it is like this in every country?

it`s very frustrating to se how high they are now.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:09 am

Howlitzer wrote:I don't see why we have to replace Nuclear Power plants with Coal. Seriously. Nuclear Power is now all-around safer and cleaner than Coal (even though coal isn't radioactive....more workers die trying to get coal than they do getting nuclear material)....and you can actually re-use the nuclear material multiple times.

If they make Coal cleaner...I can see using it alongside nuclear....but we still NEED MORE NUCLEAR, even if people are just afraid of it....many other countries are doing it, why not us?

Oh I'm hoping for nuclear power plants too, more so than Coal, I doubt Coal will replace Nuclear Power but it would seem thats there goal. The 3 Mile Island incident only happened because the people there made stupid decisions and responded very slowly, now they raised the standards for employees. Nuclear Power is safer and more stable than it was 30+ years ago, it's really the most sufficient alternative power out there. A lot of people, especially the ones that were alive during the 3 Mile Island incident and remember it, refuse to let us build another Nuclear Power Plant.

Black Claw · Post by **Black Claw** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:57 am

Another problem is that China is stocking up on oil for the Olympics and because of the earthquake a few weeks ago, the nuclear power plant there is damaged and they need fuel to run the generators for electricity while they repair their problems.

Dreamer · Post by **Dreamer** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:39 am

Terastas wrote:
Silverclaw wrote:Oil Companies and the people in power(Who oil companies pay) will not focus on alternative power for cars and such till they get as much money as possible from everyone. I think its more greed raising prices than not enough oil.
It's also the oil companies and the people in power campaigning to drill more oil instead of researching and/or developing new resources. The oil companies themselves are posting record profits; they didn't raise prices because they needed to, they did it just because they could. Given the option, we'd already be paying $10 a gallon if they thought they could get away with it.

That's why I don't support any additional drilling: because these dicks have profited enough already and we should be working to reduce, and eventually eliminate altogether, our dependency on oil ASAP. Instead of giving them more money to just push the deadline back, we should invest that money in developing the alternative and hopefully get rid of the problem completely.

Agreed. And I think that if the oil companies were SMART, they'd invest in alternate fuels so that they can still stay in business and not have civilization collapse when Peak Oil rolls around.

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:29 pm

Shadow Wulf wrote:
Howlitzer wrote:I don't see why we have to replace Nuclear Power plants with Coal. Seriously. Nuclear Power is now all-around safer and cleaner than Coal (even though coal isn't radioactive....more workers die trying to get coal than they do getting nuclear material)....and you can actually re-use the nuclear material multiple times.

If they make Coal cleaner...I can see using it alongside nuclear....but we still NEED MORE NUCLEAR, even if people are just afraid of it....many other countries are doing it, why not us?
Oh I'm hoping for nuclear power plants too, more so than Coal, I doubt Coal will replace Nuclear Power but it would seem thats there goal. The 3 Mile Island incident only happened because the people there made stupid decisions and responded very slowly, now they raised the standards for employees. Nuclear Power is safer and more stable than it was 30+ years ago, it's really the most sufficient alternative power out there. A lot of people, especially the ones that were alive during the 3 Mile Island incident and remember it, refuse to let us build another Nuclear Power Plant.

Quite. And the even worse incident in Chernobyl only occured because the power plant's safety systems were ...not so safe. Bad design and all that.

Aside from the waste it makes, Nuclear power is all kinds of epic win.

Gowor · Post by **Gowor** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:00 pm

Old reactors, like the one in Chernobyl have one design problem- if they overheat, they will keep on overheating, and eventually explode, which is basically what happened there.
New ones cannot overheat, because they use water as moderator, which means if it gets too hot, water evaporates and reaction slows down. Basically they can't explode. And there is an even newer, prototype design, in which reaction can be just stopped at any moment.
As for the nuclear waste- from what I know the French are developing technology which allows to change radioactive waste into a safe material, or possibly even reuse it as reactor fuel. I don't know how advanced it is right now though.

Berserker · Post by **Berserker** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:01 pm

Chernobyl didn't overheat on its own. The operators screwed up big time. The design was flawed, but not inherently disastrous if 0 human error was involved.

geekboy1500 · Post by **geekboy1500** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:30 pm

Ebony wrote:We have the same problem in Norway too now, too expensive gas, and we do have alot of oil in Norway...
I don't know so much about this but maby it is like this in every country?

it`s very frustrating to se how high they are now.

In 2000 Norway used 112.5 Billion Kwh, they made 140.9 billion Kwh.
Energy problems, not so much, and oil, Norway has roughly 3 billion barrels of it off of the north sea. and $8 gas.

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:37 pm

Opening up the Alaskan wildlife for drilling might fix today's problem, but it will destroy FOREVER vast tracts of land and wildlife. Sure, it could regrow or be replanted, but by that logic, so can New Orleans or lower Manhattan, but that doesn't make the damage done to either of those places any less permanent.

It would seem that the best short term solution is to make desperately needed lifestyle changes, such as giving up driving a 12 mpg pickup just to work and back, one person and no cargo to haul, when 35+ mpg cars are available today that can do the same thing and have a lower sticker price to boot. We here in the U.S. have long undervalued the advantages of trains for freight and even passenger travel, with locomotive technology in the U.S. being maybe 50 years behind that of Europe and Japan.

The main problems facing us at the moment is the cost of making this transition, since it costs a lot of money to trade in one car for another, and the tax cost of building a railroad infrastructure isn't exactly cheap either when peoples' budgets are already overextended paying for gas.

But, I'd love to be able to read a book while riding to work, rather than having to spend hours of my day gripping the wheel, chugging coffee to stay awake. That would reclaim a lot of personal time.

Technologically just around the corner are plug-in hybrids that could achieve upwards to 100mpg. By recharging batteries, these cars can outsource their power requirements back to the power grid, which in turn opens up the possibility of powering our cars with nuclear, wind, solar, and geothermal energy. According to an article in Scientific American, a well-respected group of scientists and engineers believe it is quite plausible for the U.S. to use this combination of technologies to eliminate dependence on foreign oil by 2030. Those of you in Europe, take heart; you're already several steps ahead of us Americans in getting there.

Globally, the main issues are powering India and China as they transition from "developing nations" to the 21st century's superpowers. It's absolutely imperative that they get a renewable and ecologically stable power infrastructure in place now, early on, so they don't end up in the same mess we in the U.S. are in. Hopefully they'll look to the European Union as more of a model than us; France is powered heavily by nuclear energy, while the Scandinavian countries take advantage of wind energy.

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:03 pm

I'm sorry, but I just don't feel like being politically correct right now. The Message of this thread is one of the most DUMB@** things I've seen in a long time.

"DEMAND" that they do something ... "THEY"? ... what about YOU Matt Sullivan? What are YOU going to do about this problem? ... oh, right ... NOTHING you are going to sit on your lazy, wasteful, careless, selfish @** and "DEMAND" that someone ELSE does something about it, while you continue to live as if nothing is wrong ... using your wasteful products in carelessly wasteful ways, and refusing to change your lifestyle which the resources available to us are insufficient to sustain as you are living it ... but thats not YOUR problem ... no ... its (indistinct) "Their" problem ... as in, anyone other than you.

We have a problem because we have a world full of idiots who refuse to stop living like idiots, and demand (by popular majority) that someone else uses every resource at their disposal to ensure that they will not have to stop living like idiots within their own lifetime ... they don't give a $*** if their grandchildren or great grandchildren have to live a harder life ... they will dead by the time those kids grow up ... what do THEY care.

Oh sure ... you WANT to see the world fixed, and the energy problems remedied, and you want to see later generations have a better life ... but only if YOU don't have to change a thing to make it happen.

If you maybe have to ... oh, I don't know ... stop driving your car and rely 100% on public transportation, or maybe only use lights in your house after sundown, but never ever turn on a light during the day (to conserver energy), or maybe switch to some new kind of low energy - low resource cooking method that just doesn't make food taste as good as a traditional gas or electric oven/stove ... or, you know ... anything that is in any way an inconvenience to YOU ...

... you'd probably just say "*uck my neighbors great grandkids and give me my BBQ grill, SUV and Electric Wonderland of Computers and Neon Lights " ... because making the pain of the existing problem temporarily go away is SO much more important.

That is the typical response of the Modern Human "... the surgery to fix the hole in my head is too painful and too expensive. Just give me the morphine so I stop feeling the pain for an hour or two and that's good enough for me."

We started drilling in places we shouldn't have decades and decades ago because this problem reared it's head almost right away once Crude Oil became one of our primary fuel sources. Demanding that we do it more is just selfish stupidity.

It's starting to hurt you... join the club Dumb@**. Rather than buy, invent, or personally invest in alternative fuel options to the things that require crude oil (they already exist. Stop whining about how they don't work as well and just start using them NOW, stupid...), you are just asking the government to allow you to act and pretend like you don't need to for a few years longer. ... you are just asking for aspirin to cure your broken leg.

If the costs created by the Oil shortage are becoming too much for you to afford food and other necessities, then YOU ... you personally, Matt Sullivan ... stop using oil, or at least reduce your use of it as much as you are able.

Sell your car, take the bus, shut off the gas to your house, and rather than sending pointless, short sighted, selfish letters to the political powers demanding that they cross moral lines so you can live in denial of the problem hanging over our heads for one more decade ... demand that they stop using oil too ... which is driving up the cost of shipping and processing. which in turn drives up the cost of everything else.

If there is no way to avoid having the cost of the things you take for granted (like food and heat) go way up, they buy more sweaters and eat less for the next few decades until we find a way to better solve those issues. ... Americans are too fat anyway ... It is not the Governments problem, or some foreign peoples problem ... the energy crisis is OUR problem, and it must be on OUR backs that we bear the weight of the solution. To think you can get by without paying the price yourself, you are being ridiculously naive, like 90% of the American populace. (If you are not American, you sure are acting like one)

If there are copyrights and stupid self serving laws standing in the way of doing what we need to do, and using the alternative resources that are ALREADY at our disposal, demand that THOSE be dealt with ... not the Laws stopping us from drilling for more oil in places we previously forbid ourselves from for GOOD REASONS.

... but first and foremost, stop delaying the resolution and learn how to STOP DEPENDING ON OIL YOURSELF.

If you go through life expecting others to fix your problems for you ... well ... I don't know who you think is going to do it.

You are either part of the Solution, or Part of the Problem.

(And sitting around complaining, but not actually contributing your PERSONAL energy and effort is NOT helpful. It's just annoying, and a worthless waste of your, and everyone else's time.)

I am reminded of a famous quote made by a beloved past President of the United states:

"Ask not what what your country can do for you ... ask what YOU can do for your Country"

How about "Ask not what can be taken from the world for you ... ask what you can give back to the world".

That's what I have to say. (Don't even get my STARTED on the "Economy" ... the Economy can Kiss my @**)

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:24 pm

Modern Society : "Our way of life can not continue without a ridiculous consumption of energy and resources on a daily basis ... we must do everything in our power to maintain our way of life ... even kill each other, and our world ... and ultimately ourselves. We don't know what do do."

The Voice of Reason : "If your way of life is so troublesome ... I think you should give it up and start living differently. You know of ways to live and be happy without using those resources. You have members who live far happier with less than those who have more. Give up you way of life. Live a Better way."

Modern Society : " ... No ... "

If you are not listening to the voice of reason ... what voice are you listening to?

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:25 pm

Vuldari wrote:[flamebait]

What is Matt supposed to do? Go out and drill for the oil himself?

We as individuals can take steps to reduce our own dependency, but the best thing we can do to combat America's overall dependency is petition for it and try to get others involved.

Anyway, nuclear power isn't exactly the alternative I had in mind, but it's a start: we could transition from oil to nuclear, and then if it's still an issue, from nuclear to a more modern, more renewable alternative.

And Dreamer pretty much hit the nail on the head about the oil companies. Oil lobbyists like to complain that green peace is just out to bankrupt the oil companies and kill the economy, but the reality is that the only thing keeping them from investing in alternatives and reducing their own financial dependency on oil is their own stubborn ignorance.

It's what the automotive industry did. They saw economists and environmental preservationists as a marketing base and invented the hybrid car just for them. What the hell is taking the oil companies so long?