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so i thought of something are werewolves intelligent or well.. dumb... Do they use strategy in the hunt or just go in and use brute force. Think as smart as a wolf... a human, or both combined... So? Ideas

Smart. There's a whole new dimension of horror to something that's clever instead of just strong.

Look at Jurassic Park for instance, sure the T-Rex was scary, but the Raptors they were much worse. A sturdy building didn't keep them out like it did the large and dim-witted Rex.

And so would it go with werewolves. The dumb one would be scary at first but lose it's horror once it was shown to be easily outwitted. From there it would be a matter of figuring out how to kill it and executing the plan (and hopefully the beast). An intelligent one would not be so easily and formulaic-ally killed. You'd always be left guessing.

If you mean "smart" as in "with human intelligence," then yes, werewolves would be smart. More accurately, it would depend on the individual. Don't forget that some human beings are big lumbering nitwits just like the werewolves in the average B-horror movie are.

Aki wrote:Smart. There's a whole new dimension of horror to something that's clever instead of just strong.

Bingo. I know I've said this before, but I'll say it again since it's absolutely applicable: Human beings scare each other far more than any imaginary monster ever could. Savage monsters eventually become predictable and easily baited and ambushed; it's the intelligent ones that keep people on their toes until the very end.

Humans are smart intellegent pack animals.

Wolves are smart intellegent pack animals.

There is no real reason why a werewolf should not be smart at all besides natural stupidity or brain damage. As mentioned social tribal animals tend to be quite smart. Plus brute force is going to be met with bullets and exposure, both mean death to a werewolf.

I figure werewolves are as smart as any other human.

The general consensus has been that werewolves should be intelligent. It's been one of our core platforms as a movement all along, if not THE core platform.

We'll banter back and forth about human thinking versus more wolf-like perception. But, the dumb brute bit is more or less dead to most of us.

To ratchet this up a notch;
Smart Werewolves as in intelligent and clever, or smart werewolves as able to quote Shakespear and do calculus. Then we get the "Super Smart Adversary" in an adversarial situations and the "Very Intelligent with fangs" in the Shock category.
Now: how about the fellow or girl who actually gets more intelligent as a Werewolf and knows it? Think a reverse of the Hulk as an example: the character is bitten or whatever, gets fuzzy and toothy, and realizes that he/she has a lot more upstairs when they are that way. Add in that as a Smoothskin they are just barely average mentally.
Interesting conflict, no?

RedEye wrote:Think a reverse of the Hulk as an example: the character is bitten or whatever, gets fuzzy and toothy, and realizes that he/she has a lot more upstairs when they are that way. Add in that as a Smoothskin they are just barely average mentally.
Interesting conflict, no?

It could happen. Not necessarily exactly as described, but assuming the brain's capacity is directly proportionate to the body's sensory organs, a werewolf could theoretically be smarter in werewolf form. Not in the literal sense, but in the sense that they would be able to detect and interpret information they previously didn't even know they were getting.

The sense of smell would be the biggest improvement.

Human: "I smell something burning."
Werewolf: "I smell freshly cooked methamphetamine doused in lighter fluid. It must be coming from one of those light fixtures -- a poor man's proximity mine, if you will. Kind of has a hint of Febreeze on it too; that must be what he used to try and get the smell off of himself. That shouldn't make him too hard to find."

Of course, all that additional information we previously weren't getting might overload a first time shifter's brain as well. They'd be intelligent in the literal sense, but veterans would be better able to focus themselves.

The seasoned lycanthrope: My adversary must be pretty dumb, leaving a scent trail all over town, showing me not only where he lives, but where all his friends and associates are, too.

The newer lycanthrope: Hard to tell much else over the stench of his cigarette habit, but he likes greasy fries, and I think he had a hamburger. And, to top it all off, he stepped in dog poo. At least he tried to clean it off.

The freshly turning: AHHHH!!! WHAT'S HAPPENING TO ME?!?

I can see lycanthropy forcing one to rethink one's life, and this creates an excellent opportunity for self-improvement and greater awareness. But, for lycanthropy itself to bestow genius level intelligence is a bit of a stretch. Then again, I've been known to give a few of mine psychic abilities. It's a complex plot device, based on the idea that humans have cognition, whereas other mammals have better attunement, and that the mix of the two creates a whole that is greater than the sum of the parts. I tend to save this plot element for my more sci-fi driven works, de-emphasizing it in the more pure, present day and near-future writings.

Perhaps you might look at it the same way the way you'd deal with a character going blind, then re-learning to use his senses again.

Depending on the characterization, Crossing Over is either a totally confounding experience that leaves one like a small child again, unable to use the senses they have and the body they occupy; or it's like wearing stilts and a pair of hearing aids; annoying but not crippling.
I'm deliberately leaving out the mental melt down angle since that's been overdone to death.
Even the "Instinctual" types that lose most of their human mentality would have a time of learning to do; since even instinct has to have ready mental channels to send commands down, and the N00BWolf wouldn't have any.

what about them hunting something or someone... do they bust down the door and the startled man with a shotgun takes a shot and lands a hit but the brute and rage gets it's way. Or they use the pack like one wolf knocks on the door distracting the man while the others sneak in and complete the hunt.

Werewolves would be smart, retaining their human intelligence in all forms. If you wanted to kill someone stealthily, how would you do it? You'd play it out, plant decoys, maybe lure them out of their homes and into an environment where they wouldn't be heard and evidence would never be found. You could use any human technology. You could be a con artist, you could use any type of deception or whatever you wanted, and especially have accomplices that would be just effective as you are. Just think of all the methods "normal" people use, and you could do it, and do it better. That combined with strength, instincts (and built-in weapons to do the job) you'd go virtually undetected.

I only see open fights happening when there's no other choice or time is of the essence.

Not that werewolves are murderers per-se... they'd need to defend their identity from time to time to be sure...

I hope that all made sense.

I think honestly in the Human to Full Were-Wolf (not full form wolf) the mind stays in the same state. Though in the berzerker phase, the base instincts are more in control then reason. Were-wolves would have to be smart, or smarter in order to stay mostly hidden from human detection.

I think Werewolves are smart. However, it would have to do with the background of the Werewolf.

I agree on high intelligence. Even if their were form had lupine intelligence rather than human, that's still pretty darn smart.
I seem to remember reading somewhere someone estimated a wolf's reasoning ability to be about on par with a human child. I may be wrong.

Depending on the Wolf, they are considered (average) to have the intelligence of an eight to ten year old human child.
Really smart wolves can rate as high as a twelve or thirteen year old human.
Note: this is Problem-Solving ability, not Skule learnin'.

As a matter of fact, some Humans I know wouldn't rate much higher than a retarded wolf.
One wolf at a sanctuary here in California was claimed to have been seen out of the enclosure repeatedly by visitors and hitting them up for snacks and goodies, usually by sitting on one of their feet and not getting up until he was fed something(this fellow was about 150 pounds of smart canine).
When the staff would check, though, he was in the enclosure where he should be. Matters came to a head when it was discovered that he had worked one corner of the fence loose and got out that way; then would go back in and hide his "exit" by lying against it or dragging a piece of wood over against it.
He kept this up for two months, until quite by accident, he was seen sneaking out. When the keeper showed up, he was back inside and grew rather irate when the fence was again fastened shut. A week later, he had un-done the fastening, and was out panhandling the visitors again.
So, yeah, they be smart!

They have managed to hide thier true numbers from man for the last million years. They have found wolves living in places that they should not have been able to go unnoticed in. They don't leave much of thier meals behind to be found either.

Clever those Wolves.

Would count on smart, because most of the animals using strategy to catch their food.
If you combine the primal-predator thinking with part of human intelligence and logic what would you get ?
The perfect killer !?
I cannot answer on that question, anyway the final result will be better in many aspects .
Humans loosing their predator thinking, sense of smell and hearing at the time, instead of that their logic is increased .
When you combine the two totally different species in this aspects they probably fill the defects in each other .
And of course, then other defects will appear on this new creature .
Maybe the hunger for flesh is one of them, because the ultra fast metabolism of this creature ?
And at the final, yes, werewolves will be better than human, maybe not smarter ... maybe that is the thing that humans need, more predator instincts and strategy to survive, that makes werewolves smarter, when you see the point from this side .

Perfect Killer? I don't know. Yes, a Werewolf would be a meat-and-fat eater because of a high metabolism, but the thing that humans and wolves share more than anything else is a social nature.
As in: they need their sort of people around them to be happy. Now, if this means that a Werwolf would seek other Were's, or that said Lycanthrope would be a "party person"; that I don't know.
In the "Wulfen" series, this comes out as involvement in community matters; being the sort of people who actually contribute time and effort as opposed to "thinking about it".
Hmmm... A Werewolf deeply involved in his/her community would be hard to detect, based on Hollywood's portrayal of them as loners. If detected, the "peasants" might elect him Mayor, rather than chasing him with torches and pitchforks...

I'd have to say werewolves are definitely smart. They embody the minds of both human and wolf, not to mention they've eluded widespread discovery for many years.

For me, I would say smart, like most people have already said. It really just depends on the person though. If you're smart in your human form, then why can't you be smart in your wolf form?

Only once in my own writing has a werewolf ever broken down the front door and butchered everyone inside directly. He did so for the following reasons:
1) He was outnumbered seven to one, so he ambushed them to give them as little time to sober up and arm themselves as possible.
2) The people inside were reckless instigators that could have easily brought down the entire werewolf community (and half of the human community down with them).
3) To intentionally leave a gory crime scene and make a point to all the other splinter factions: "do not **** with us."

Any of the three possibilities above I think could warrant a direct attack, but if a pack had the luxury of time and planning on their side, they'd use it.

And even if they do resort to the "primal" mode of attack, they can still use their human resources to plant, conceal or destroy the evidence. I think a werewolf certainly could just bust down the door and hope they don't get shot in the face, but I think werewolves are more interesting (and more fun to write about) when they demonstrate more cunning and creativity than physical prowess.

It's actually reached a point in my own writing where some werewolves are starting to appear more creepy and sinister in their human forms.

Terastas wrote:It's actually reached a point in my own writing where some werewolves are starting to appear more creepy and sinister in their human forms.

Ditto.

In my own story ("Oscar County"/*pending title*) it is the activity and psychology of the scariest lycanthrope character in the story while in HUMAN form that makes him a real monster (likewise with his second in command). In fact, the curse (yes, in my story it really is a curse ... black magic and everything) was originally put on him as a punishment for his actions ... but he was so clever, and incredibly twisted, that he turned the curse to his advantage and it made him nearly unstoppable.

... what's really scary though, is what happens when the curse is later removed from him to make him easier to kill (supposedly)... only to have what seemed have been the source of his power (even he thought it was so) turn out to be the only thing that was holding him back from his TRUE potential ... (though no one finds that out until later)


In contrast ... though the "Curse" Werewolves are actually quite intelligent while transformed (if they remove all "Distractions" first ... it's a plot point in the story, so I don't want to say what that means yet), the Natural, Biological variety actually dumb down a bit.

They go partly feral when transformed, and though they retain all memory, they can't necessarily understand it all any more when in Wolf form, which is quadrupedal and not Gestalt. The very rare few who can assume a "Gestalt"-like form can think a little more clearly, but are still somewhat handicapped in a sense.

A Gestalt in my story could operate a TV remote or a Car, or play a musical instrument if needed, but using a computer would feel like being asked to solve complex algebra equations.

In full wolf form, which is the only other form most werewolves take, opening doors and reading signs still comes naturally, as well as understanding what people say, but any machines more complex than a toaster seem confusing, and all relationships simplify in their mind into "Friend", "Family", "Foe", or "Food". They may remember what they are supposed to or wanted to do, but they might not remember or understand how to do it any more ... or why certain actions are a bad idea.

It's sort of like being really ... REALLY ... Drunk.


That is how it works for the "Oscar County" werewolves anyway ...

Werewolves are smart. I hate when they portray werewolves as dumb in movies and literature. Grrrr. It gets my fur to stand on edge. Figurativly speaking of course. lol. When you transform into a werewolf, you retain all of your knowledge and smarts. There are a couple of differences though, even more when you shift to wolf form. To learn more, go to Celestialwolf's site: http://werewolf.rcromar.com

Thanks,

M