How tall should they be?

Searif · Post by **Searif** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:23 pm

Vuldari wrote:
Figarou wrote:I don't want the werewolf to look like its suffering from Osteoporosis.

I liked the way the Van Helsing were standing also.
Of course not. I didn't mean to quite such an extent. The way the Werewolves in VH and even your own Avatar have a slightly "forward" center of gravity is what I meant.

Not completely hunched over. (Like the WW's in the "Bloodmoon" Expansion for Morrowind.)

mmhm, morrowind is fine and all but im thinking werewolves would stand move upwards like goldenwolfens style

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:30 pm

Vuldari wrote:How would you describe that in comparison to human posture? I thought "bent over" was a reasonable description. I didn't mean 'doubled over horizontal'. I guess I should have just used the word "leaning" rather than "bent", as that seems to have confused everyone.

I'd call it 'leaning forward', yes. I reserve 'bent' for things like the position I'm in when I'm running and my head is so far forward that it looks like I'm about to fall flat on my face (which is the point.)

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:31 pm

Vuldari wrote: However, on 90% of the werewolves I have seen in images on the internet, the shoulders are forward compared to the hips, and the head even further so. How would you describe that in comparison to human posture?

I know there are two types of chest designs for the werewolf. Will each design affect the posture?

(There is a reference pic here somewhere. I can't seem to find it.)

One design is good for running on all fours. The one with shoulders isn't.

Vuldari · Post by **Vuldari** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:34 pm

Searif Bogard wrote:
Vuldari wrote:
Figarou wrote:I don't want the werewolf to look like its suffering from Osteoporosis.

I liked the way the Van Helsing were standing also.
Of course not. I didn't mean to quite such an extent. The way the Werewolves in VH and even your own Avatar have a slightly "forward" center of gravity is what I meant.

Not completely hunched over. (Like the WW's in the "Bloodmoon" Expansion for Morrowind.)
mmhm, morrowind is fine and all but im thinking werewolves would stand move upwards like goldenwolfens style

Yes...only slightly forward, but not to such an unpleasant extreme as Bloodmoon. (Not even quite as far as this imagae by GW.)

Searif · Post by **Searif** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:38 pm

Vuldari wrote:
Searif Bogard wrote:
Vuldari wrote:
Figarou wrote:I don't want the werewolf to look like its suffering from Osteoporosis.

I liked the way the Van Helsing were standing also.
Of course not. I didn't mean to quite such an extent. The way the Werewolves in VH and even your own Avatar have a slightly "forward" center of gravity is what I meant.

Not completely hunched over. (Like the WW's in the "Bloodmoon" Expansion for Morrowind.)
mmhm, morrowind is fine and all but im thinking werewolves would stand move upwards like goldenwolfens style
Yes...only slightly forward, but not to such an unpleasant extreme as Bloodmoon. (Not even quite as far as this imagae by GW.)

mmmhm, I was talking about that sortof, like I see no problem with how the neck is, it would just look a little bit worse if it was right where our head was, anyways I love the way that looks it keeps some of the wolf features

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:49 pm

Figarou wrote: I know there are two types of chest designs for the werewolf. Will each design affect the posture?

(There is a reference pic here somewhere. I can't seem to find it.)

One design is good for running on all fours. The one with shoulders isn't.

Barrel chested.

Human Torso

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:53 pm

Those are the pics I was looking for! Thanks Lupin.

Doruk Golcu · Post by **Doruk Golcu** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:22 pm

Actually, there are some nice werewolf designs in this game, it is a little old, so they are not as detailed as they could be, but you can see a) both bipedal and quadruped stance and b) size. Notice how the alpha werewolf is much bigger (and darker colored) than the others (sorry for the darkness of the images):

http://www.angelfire.com/freak/sanemosquito/noc1.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/freak/sanemosquito/noc2.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/freak/sanemosquito/noc3.jpg

Searif · Post by **Searif** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:26 pm

Doruk Golcu wrote:Actually, there are some nice werewolf designs in this game, it is a little old, so they are not as detailed as they could be, but you can see a) both bipedal and quadruped stance and b) size. Notice how the alpha werewolf is much bigger (and darker colored) than the others (sorry for the darkness of the images):

http://www.angelfire.com/freak/sanemosquito/noc1.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/freak/sanemosquito/noc2.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/freak/sanemosquito/noc3.jpg

put the images on www.photobucket.com it works much better

Doruk Golcu · Post by **Doruk Golcu** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:33 pm

Searif · Post by **Searif** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 4:41 pm

what game is that

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:36 am

Searif Bogard wrote:what game is that

and what platform.

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:01 am

Those are a bit dark, i can't make out anything besides vague shapes...

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:55 am

yeah its pretty hard to see.

WereDog · Post by **WereDog** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:27 am

turn up the brightness then, i have no trouble seeing them.

i believe they are from the game nocturne for pc?

my brother used to play that game.

Doruk Golcu · Post by **Doruk Golcu** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:38 pm

WereDog wrote:turn up the brightness then, i have no trouble seeing them.

i believe they are from the game nocturne for pc?

my brother used to play that game.

Yes, that is the correct game. The game itself is pretty dark, so that is why the scrrenshots came out pretty dark as well.

mielikkishunt · Post by **mielikkishunt** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:14 pm

no one who's said a smaller werewolf isn't intimidating has never stared down a pissed off big dog. Even a chest high werewolf can disembowel you with a sneeze. . .Size isn't everything(Watches the guys cringe)

I see growing excessively in height as annoying as walking on the ceiling.

They'd grow more than a few inches from walking on their toes, because their toes grow if I'm not mistaken, bones lengthen and shorten.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:00 am

mielikkishunt wrote:no one who's said a smaller werewolf isn't intimidating has never stared down a pissed off big dog. Even a chest high werewolf can disembowel you with a sneeze. . .Size isn't everything(Watches the guys cringe)

I see growing excessively in height as annoying as walking on the ceiling.

They'd grow more than a few inches from walking on their toes, because their toes grow if I'm not mistaken, bones lengthen and shorten.

disembowel with a sneeze?

I hate to be around a werewolf with a cold.

outwarddoodles · Post by **outwarddoodles** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:10 am

Figarou wrote:
mielikkishunt wrote:no one who's said a smaller werewolf isn't intimidating has never stared down a pissed off big dog. Even a chest high werewolf can disembowel you with a sneeze. . .Size isn't everything(Watches the guys cringe)

I see growing excessively in height as annoying as walking on the ceiling.

They'd grow more than a few inches from walking on their toes, because their toes grow if I'm not mistaken, bones lengthen and shorten.

disembowel with a sneeze?

I hate to be around a werewolf with a cold.

Werewolf with Cold: Ah ah ah ChrooooOOOOOOOooooo

Jamie · Post by **Jamie** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:49 pm

because a human stands up on two legs, and a wolf stands on four. then it looks more natural if the gestalt is standing in a possition that can easily change between the two of em.

but thats just my opinion.

That's mostly my opinion too. I think we should avoid the term "hunched" because it makes it seem like something extreme, like a hunchback, rather than what I think most of us are imagining.

What I imagine is this: the spine would be mostly vertical, but the neck would tend to lean forward, to put the nose out front more, especially when the gestalt form is (1) running or (2)standing still and leaning against something with the front paws. Also, the way a part-wolf pelvis would be put together would tend to encourage a slight forward slant, so the more lupine the pelvis became during the shapeshift, the more of a tendency to lean forward.

As far as height goes, the legs of a big wolf would be almost as long as the legs of a normal-sized human, so the waist level of a gestalt form would be almost the same as the waist level of its human form, in most cases (if we think that the inches added by the gradually lengthening digitigrade foot would balance out the inches lost in the leg part that is between heel and crotch. Otherwise, as in the case of a werewolf that kept a plantograde stance in gestalt form, the legs would become shorter while the feet became long like clown-feet and very hard to walk plantigrade with).
So, the leg transformation should not add any significant height.
The neck of a wolf is longer than that of a human, so this could add height to the gestalt form, depending on how much the neck shifts when changing to gestalt form. The ears of a wolf, are, I think, about 3-4 inches long. That would add height, at least in perception (if your ears stick above the top of your head, do you measure your height as to the top of your ears?).
Another possibility is the torso. Wolf torsos are proportionately much longer than human torsos. So, if a normal-sized human turned into a big wolf, I think that a partially-changed torso would add at least a few inches in height to the gestalt form. Of course, I think most of us are envisioning the torso as the least-changed part of the gestalt form, and I think that it would also create practical difficulties in special effects if we had to find actors for the werewolf suits who had unusually long torsos. So, probably not more than two or three inches from that.
Another route we can take is to look at wolf measurements. How high would a big wolf be if it were standing perfectly vertical? We could determine that height, and then figure that since the gestalt form is about halfway through the transformation, then it would be about halfway between the wolf-form height when on hind legs and the original human height.
I've read somewhere that even small wolves are usually about as tall as a person if they put their paws on your shoulders. I'm not sure if I remember this exactly right, but I do know that the biggest wolf skins on record are about nine feet long, measured from nose tip to the toes of the hind feet. Subtract from that nine feet a foot because skins can be stretched much more than the real animal, and then subtract most of the head length (because gestalt height is not measured to the nose tip, but to the top of the head or the top of the ears). With this, you get a maximum of about seven and a half feet for the biggest full-wolf form. If your human form is big, say six feet tall, then the biggest gestalt form that you could produce by this method would be about six feet, nine inches. And that would be your maximum. Most werewolves would probably be at least a few inches shorter in gestalt form, and people who were short in human form, especially females, would find it hard to achieve a gestalt form taller than six feet.
Altogether, I don't really see the gestalt form being more than about a foot taller than the original human form of the werewolf, and I don't see it being eight feet tall. If it is hugely taller than the human form, then I think that we would be talking about a gestalt form that was much thinner and more elongated than most of us would prefer, but in that case I imagine that it would be too close to true wolf to be running around on two legs anyway, so that, technically, it would not be a gestalt form.

outwarddoodles · Post by **outwarddoodles** » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:08 pm

I keep seeing the bending of knees, leaning forward, and tippy toes mentioned here so we're going to do a nice hands on experiment. We arn't werewolves in gestalt form, but it may give some ideas.

Get out of your chair and stand on your tippy toes, now straiten your legs. Ack, it sorta hurts, while your heels may not be that high off the ground. Walk around a bit. You may or may not lean a bit, nor keep your knees bent.

Now hike 'em high! When we imagine werewolves they have long feet that stand more strait up, posibly because bending too much hurts. Act like you have the highest type of high heeled shoes ever made. Now bend your knees beck and make your legs strait, yet warning, if your like me, your arms flung around and you posibly fell down. Or maybe you could stand up, yet quite uncomfertable.

Now with your heels high up get in a nice natural stance and stay as comfy as you can while trying to keep balance. For me my legs are bent a bit and my torso leans forward. Now lets bend your knees, bend, hurts doesn't it?

I would sappose from my little activity that the werewolf is best to keep strait as not to strain their legs, but may need to stay bent a bit to keep balance. Then the factor that their toes on their bottom feet is best to have more surface area so that they arn't balancing and putting stress on their feet.

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:57 am

outwarddoodles wrote:Get out of your chair and stand on your tippy toes, now straiten your legs. Ack, it sorta hurts, while your heels may not be that high off the ground. Walk around a bit. You may or may not lean a bit, nor keep your knees bent.

Now, close your eyes, tilt your head back as far as it will go. Now touch your nose while on your tippy toes. Did you fall? good!! I meant for you to do that!!

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:23 am

Figarou wrote:Did you fall? good!! I meant for you to do that!!

I didn't fall

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Sat Jul 30, 2005 3:10 pm

Lupin wrote:
Figarou wrote:Did you fall? good!! I meant for you to do that!!
I didn't fall

well, you have a good sence of balance.

Lupin · Post by **Lupin** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:08 am

Figarou wrote:well, you have a good sence of balance.

Yep practice makes perfect. I do a lot of running on the curbs around my house.

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How tall should they be?

How tall, relatively speaking, should the male and female werewolves be?