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GENSI wrote:/Users/trebrown/Desktop/werewolf24dg.jpg

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....freaky...

I love that picture!!

That's how i would be if i was Inraged with anger

human form:stronger then humans can lift lets say 600 pounds over his head and throw it maybe the leght of a highway(going across one not down one)

werewolf form:can lift a average sized car (like a preis ) over its head but barely throw it 10 feet unless the human traines under intense conditions to make himself stronger

sorry im doing it again

acording too internet they should be capable of lifting 900kg to 3 tons during full moon, but lifting and throwing a car?yes and no most of cars are very unbalanced so lifting it is possible but throwing is no go,but some cars are balanced so throving is possible.

Once again, it depends upon what kind of werewolf you're talking about. If your werewolves are along the lines of "lycanthropy is magic", then pretty much anything goes -- so you can also have them inhabit a world in which a vampire with a build of an emaciated clothing model can heft a car over his head -- simply because he's a vampire. If on the other hand, your werewolves are more along the lines of "lycanthropy has a medical / genetic / or some other physically explainable element to it", then you've got some problems with the "easily hefting 900 Kg" idea.

First off, some people are just unnaturally strong, and there's a genetic element to it (athletes hate this idea, because it somehow takes away from the endless hours they spend honing their art). People who have naturally dense muscle tissue can (albeit rarely) out-muscle a bodybuilder, so it's not strange that a werewolf could be exceptionally strong, especially if your werewolf is a nine-foot behemoth a-la Werewolf: the Apocalypse. Nonetheless, there's only so far that simple biology can go. Professional athletes very often wind up seriously screwed up because they overtax their bodies (and this typically manifests in joint and ligament problems, not issues with other connective tissues like muscle).

Secondly, there's some interesting videos on sites like YouTube of people doing things like flipping over cars. Some of these are faked, but some are legitimate -- but with a few caveats. Most of the real ones are of tiny compact cars that have also been stripped, most importantly this includes the engine. That can actually cut the weight by half or more. Also, there's the issue that they're not lifting it very far. From a kinesiology perspective, there's a huge differece between lifting a weight a foot off the ground and lifting it over one's head. In the two cases, you're using completely different muscle groups. And none of this even touches at all on issues of balance and leverage.

So I guess the point I'd make is to beware making a sweeping statement about what a werewolf should be able to do physically, because if you're going to get into what "rationally makes sense" the answer is going to be not much more than what an exceptionally strong human could do (which is way short of 900 Kg). I think the answer to the question of how strong a werewolf should be should be entirely dependent upon what kind of story you want to tell, and what the werewolf is going to be doing in it.

Nice post Uniform Two Six

I generally agree, like with healing, it all depends what works for the story. Now if you're talking about what could, would, and should be in reality, I'd tackle the whole strength argument from a different direction, what makes a werewolf powerful? The answer is obvious, teeth and crushing jaws, not dead lifts and throws, the werewolf is jaws on legs basically, of course the human element can be factored in, so it's an athletic human pushing some deadly jaws around the place. Claws on an arm that's capable of knocking someone out with a punch, would most likely be enough to rip out decent sized chunks of flesh with the swipe of a paw.

I suppose for a werewolf, that's covered by the poll, throwing humans around is all it needs to work on any level outside of a comic book, all it needs to be is bigger and stronger and deadlier than you when face to face with it, that's what werewolves are for.

The Meeper.

Meeper wrote: throwing humans around is all it needs to work on any level outside of a comic book, all it needs to be is bigger and stronger and deadlier than you when face to face with it, that's what werewolves are for.

The Meeper.

The only thing I'd add to that is (remembering that the werewolf's capabilities should be tailored for the story you're trying to tell), some level of superhuman strength in a werewolf is going to be useful from a plot perspective. If your werewolf is trying to catch / dismember another character and said character flees to a lockable structure and/or vehicle, it's useful to have the threat that the werewolf will rip the front door off its hinges or flip the car over (so that escaping in the car is an impossibility). As an example, although I think it worked overall, in Being Human all they really had to do to escape George was put a fairly flimsy door between themselves and the rampaging werewolf, at which point he basically just gives up. I'm still of a mind that the average werewolf should be more threatening than that.

Well, anything is possible in fiction, and you can give a dismissive wave of a hand to a lot of it, but there's so many ways to slice the plot cake that it has me wondering where to draw the line in terms of what the werewolf's power is really useful for. I mentioned it in another thread that we can keep upping the ante to fit the plot till we're green about the gills, but so far as I see all that ultimately does is stretch the imagination in one direction, while through all of it the human being remains the same. Whether a werewolf always kills you no matter how hard you try or what obstacles separate you from the danger, or you can look the beast right in the eye through a flimsy but "confusing" pane of window glass, doesn't detract from the fact the werewolf can and will kill you without a second's thought.

Uniform Two Six wrote:level of superhuman strength in a werewolf is going to be useful from a plot perspective. If your werewolf is trying to catch / dismember another character and said character flees to a lockable structure and/or vehicle, it's useful to have the threat that the werewolf will rip the front door off its hinges or flip the car over (so that escaping in the car is an impossibility). As an example, although I think it worked overall, in Being Human all they really had to do to escape George was put a fairly flimsy door between themselves and the rampaging werewolf, at which point he basically just gives up. I'm still of a mind that the average werewolf should be more threatening than that.

Yeah agreed, a challenge is always good, though I don't know that some of it is really necessary, I mean sure, smash the door down, hell a decently strong puny hyooman can smash through a door if they really went at it .

Flipping cars, I'm in two minds about that when you can smash the window instead, or even just beat the crap out of the car, I mean from personal experience, a few years ago my brother was riding his bicycle (read: not a motorbike) down a steep hill, and like an idiot he had a girl riding pillion, I'd guess their combined weight would be maybe 250lbs give or take a bit, some drunk fool who stole a car pulled out in front of him, they hit the car with such force that they smashed the wheel arch right in, smashed the windshield, and effectively wrecked the car, it had to be towed away, he was beat up black and blue but didn't break any bones, she had a nice soft cushion to land on , the point is it wasn't hard enough of an impact to move the car let alone flip it. I recon a werewolf could do that no sweat.

The Meeper.

Why did I suddenly get this mental image of the stereotypical horror movie pair-of-teenagers running away from a werewolf and hopping in a car. Then one of them goes "what's it doing?" as the werewolf simply twists off the tire's inflation cap and jabs a claw down on the button, accompanied by a faint hissing sound?

Why did I also then think of the Far Side cartoon in which two people in a Land Rover are on safari and this lion is trying to jimmy the lock with a coat hanger?

Uniform Two Six wrote:Why did I suddenly get this mental image of the stereotypical horror movie pair-of-teenagers running away from a werewolf and hopping in a car. Then one of them goes "what's it doing?" as the werewolf simply twists off the tire's inflation cap and jabs a claw down on the button, accompanied by a faint hissing sound?

The kinder, gentler werewolf, destroys all in his wake while leaving buildings and infrastructure intact, unlike those horrid undwerorld werewolves, who's mere presence seems to make the lights flicker and cause electrical sparks for no apparent reason.

The Meeper

they need too be strong to deal with humans like you said their strenght is difrent with each WW author or director/schriptwriter decide how strong they will be in books and movies.

i think a WW should be capable fairly easy throving a human with one hand and ripping doors from car.But we can look on WW strenght like this 350kg WW can lift around 400 kg with both hands

As I said before, I think some level of superhuman strength in a werewolf is for the best. That said, I'd point out that it's not strictly necessary from a plot perspective as even a fairly average sized dog is a serious threat to you if it's rabid and intent on ripping your throat out. Now make it the size of a good-sized black bear (most of which only reach the average human mass), and you've got A-Bad-Thing.

i agree do you know that we(humans) use only 33% of strenght because we have limiters that prevent us using more of it because if we use 100% we will hurt ourselfs and there was cases of people lifting cars of loved by using hysterical Strength but they also damaged their body.

you might be onto something there lovec1990, but I don't believe muscle power is entirely concerned with injury prevention, a lot of people have weak/lazy nerve signals, which prevents the muscles from pulling optimally, I know there's a lot of sports science going into helping athletes with nerve function deficiencies, in the area of nutrition and supplements, and probably other areas I'm not aware of.

Besides, most of the injury prevention ideas concern joint health, which probably won't be a problem for a werewolf who can regenerate cartilage, on the other hand, muscle tears I would think might be a bigger concern for our supercharged werewolf, crunched cartilage may grow back, but a detached tendon might be trouble, even for a werewolf, since muscles can only pull, once a muscle comes off the bone insertion/origin point, it needs to be reattached by a surgeon. Unless a werewolf can magically reattach a wayward tendon that's bunched up a good few inches away from its origin/insertion point. I'd expect a werewolf in human and beast form to have thicker than usual tendons per volume of muscle mass in this case.

The Meeper.

and what about chimps who suposed too be 3-6 time stronger than avrage human youst beause of better wayward tendon attachment and less nervs who control motor function and muscle fibers closest to the bones are much longer and more denser than humans,so if WW transformation do that too muschles we wont have too strong ww.

i used chimp because they are our close relatives if id use gorilla witch is 8-15 times stronger than human or silverback gorilla whitch is 20 times stronger would be too much.

What about chimps? Have you ever seen a chimp minus its hair? That's a whole other level of beef my friend, and the males have got aggressive tempers to match, humans simply cannot compare, and to be honest I very much doubt even a werewolf would either, there's a reason they're the only legitimate threat to the likes of jaguars in the wild.

The Meeper.

they dont look too muscelar, but WW could use their musche design

lovec1990 wrote:they dont look too muscelar, but WW could use their musche design

We could, and in fact I already designed a werewolf loosely based on chimp anatomy, such a werewolf sure would be formidable and tremendously strong, still wouldn't be enough to slap cars around, but would be ideal wrecking cars and for ripping up people, I heard a few stories of people getting mutilated, their hands torn off and such by chimps that got aggressive, and they do get mind bogglingly aggressive.

The Meeper

i agree even i prefer WW that can toss humans around and rip car doors off or overturn car but lifting no way

actualy how much force do you need to tear off a limb?

I posted it earlier in this thread, but on the subject of "strength limitation" as you call it, people on phenylcycledene (or however that's spelled), bypass that effect, and are capable of extraordinary feats of strength. Now, they tend to severely injure themselves when they go berserk, but that's less of an issue with a werewolf because of regeneration. So how about this? A werewolf with a natural ability to exceed human strength limitation (because self-injury is not an evolutionary concern), coupled with a musculature more akin to a chimp, and scaled up to seven or eight feet tall and several hundred pounds? That would not be a good thing to get into a fistfight with.

Uniform Two Six wrote:I posted it earlier in this thread, but on the subject of "strength limitation" as you call it, people on phenylcycledene (or however that's spelled), bypass that effect, and are capable of extraordinary feats of strength. Now, they tend to severely injure themselves when they go berserk, but that's less of an issue with a werewolf because of regeneration. So how about this? A werewolf with a natural ability to exceed human strength limitation (because self-injury is not an evolutionary concern), coupled with a musculature more akin to a chimp, and scaled up to seven or eight feet tall and several hundred pounds? That would not be a good thing to get into a fistfight with.

Let me see here, take your 5'6" 150lbs chimp that's already capable of dismembering a human, and blow it out to 7' and say...350+ pounds, yep I think that ought to stray into car flipping territory, it's still not going to flip a 2 ton SUV like a pancake, might roll one over onto its side or roof though.

As a matter of record chimps are not to be messed with end of story, there's been laws passed that chimps owned as pets should not exceed 50 pounds, which is probably more to do with age related aggression than size/strength, but is indicative of how powerful they are already without being on drugs or infected with lycanthropy.

*Edit* This edit is for Lovec1990. Click the links, look at the photos, look really closely, and then tell me chimps aren't that muscular.
http://shadowsfall.org/mandogandgun/?p=4808
http://dingo.care2.com/pictures/c2c/sha ... 09_370.jpg

The Meeper.

ok we agree on overturning cars what about pushing them sideways?