THE PACK Message Boards

I'm online because I'm sick. Today's supposed to be baking day but I'm in too much pain to deal with oatmeal and cinnamon

Surprise nothing, Vuldari, this subject matter also involves me in a way.

seriously if said werewolf would be under the surcumstances of needing to lift a car you would have to add in the adrenilin factor which would give increased strength to the werewolf. and i also second the thhought of a werewolf lifting a car would be pretty awesome to see

White Paw wrote:I think that naturally the males would be stronger in areas of say... defence of thier pack and hunting........but on the other hand females would show quite decent strength in caring for young, giving birth, defence of thier young,etc.

I also agree with this. the females would probably have the same amount of strength but it would be in smaller amounts of a longer period of time. I know theirs a word for that but i can't think of it right now. A male however would exert greater amounts of strength over say half the time stretch

Shadow_in_the_Moonlight wrote: I also agree with this. the females would probably have the same amount of strength but it would be in smaller amounts of a longer period of time. I know theirs a word for that but i can't think of it right now.

Sustained (female) versus explosive (male).

Same amount of fuel: you can burn it slowly, to make the pot simmer, or you can ignite it all at once (and blow up the bloody pot in the process).

I think that sums it all up right there. OOOHHH!!!!! I remebered the word!! it was endurance! that makes me happy!!

Wow! interesting.... I agree on the whole size, mass, physical fitness = strength thing. My example is that I live in an area where there are bears... lots of them from time to time. I have seen a smallish black bear destroy the front porch and front door of a cabin because it wanted in, it smelled food. Not to mention what I know a grizzly is capable of, even a half starved young male. I also think that age and amount of time spent in wolf form is important, as was mentioned. A creature does not have to have bulging popping muscles to be powerful. I am hoping that we see a "real" portrail of werewolves, or as close as could be done. The tag line for the movie says " if someone told you....." I think this movie is going to be amazing!

Vicious_Sweetheart wrote:Wow! interesting.... I agree on the whole size, mass, physical fitness = strength thing. My example is that I live in an area where there are bears... lots of them from time to time. I have seen a smallish black bear destroy the front porch and front door of a cabin because it wanted in, it smelled food. Not to mention what I know a grizzly is capable of, even a half starved young male.

Small bears can do incredible damage to any inanimate object that stands between them and food. And I've seen wolf cubs on TV dismantle a couch surprisingly fast, like it was made of butter instead of lumber and cloth. So, you'd think a grown werewolf should be able to do some amazing things. Maybe not throw a car, but certainly tear through any non-brick non-stone wall with ease.

I agree!

Actually, any structural engineer would tell you that brick walls are probably among the weakest of architecture — because there are A LOT of joints. The mortar between the bricks doesn't hold up well to sustained attacks, this is why, in the Loma Prieta 'quake of '89, 90% of the chimneys in Santa Cruz went crunch.

Contrast that with strawbale houses (strawbales covered in plaster and concrete), which can take a direct hit from a tornado and the walls would stay intact.

The 3 Little Pigs had it ALL wrong...

so they weren't as good as they thought, we keep tis info from them, they never need to know

vrikasatma wrote:Actually, any structural engineer would tell you that brick walls are probably among the weakest of architecture — because there are A LOT of joints. The mortar between the bricks doesn't hold up well to sustained attacks, this is why, in the Loma Prieta 'quake of '89, 90% of the chimneys in Santa Cruz went crunch.

Contrast that with strawbale houses (strawbales covered in plaster and concrete), which can take a direct hit from a tornado and the walls would stay intact.

The 3 Little Pigs had it ALL wrong...

Very true. But I still imagine a solid concrete, stone, etc. wall will pose a rather formidable barrier to Lycanthropes. Not having as many joints nor the mortar of a brick wall.

Concrete, yes. Poured cncrete is very strong because there are fewer joints — failing everything else, the Romans had at least that much right. A structure is weakest where its constituent components are joined.

Witness, arthritis...

Yeah, I'd have to agree with the brick wall thing. If I could get through something with a few swings of a sledgehammer, then a werewolf should be strong enough to go through it with even greater ease.

Brick wall - depends upon how thick. If it's the brick facade of a typical residential structure, it would hold up a concerted werewolf attack for about 8.7 seconds, IMHO.

Poured concrete - werewolf will have to stop, think real hard, and then go through the window instead.

My, but how this topic has twisted...
First off, I would think that the musculature of a werewolf (in a non-magical environment) would be a relative increase of the human form, assuming that the human form is the original.
In this case, say that the musculature is increased by 200% (more or less). It owuld make sense that when a perosn transforms, their muscles get much more dense, and what they would be able to do is much more dramatic to a human's version of normal.
On that note, I would think that the bulging of muscles as a norm would be unrealistic, which isn't mean to diss those who like it. I simply believe that it would be excessively difficult for a wolf (in nature) to be able to exist without getting h*ll for muscle bulge. He just wouldn't be able to maintain that same level of agility. Considering that the werewolf is a combination of wolf and human (usually), it would make sense that a semi-lithe form is used, and being able to have muscles bulge in fairly large ways when flexed.
Like I said, it would be relative. There's also the fact that a friend of mine (when he was younger), got hit by a truck, and all but a small part of his feet, his cranium, and his organs got crushed. Long story short, he had his bones replaced with titanium (the lucky son of a puppy). After recuperation, he weighed 500-some pounds. Down the road, he decided to take martial arts. One of his first instructors had challenged him to knock him out. It took only two hits. Two hits, a punch, and a hit with the elbow, and he was out cold. (Another time, he was literally able to punch through a brick wall)
On that note, it might be possible to have a werewolf lift a car, but it would depend on the base strength.

I plant to write more, I need to leave now...I'll try and post later.

Well, the whole thrust of this thread is the strength of the werewolf, not the appearance. As has been debated (and debated and debated) on this board, the level of musculature is not directly proportional to strength. There are all kinds of other variables. If the question changes to how much musculature should a werewolf have (from an aesthetic perspective as opposed to a more practical perspective of how strong should it be) It would be a much different response. Me personally, I like the bulked out Arnold werewolf look, just because it has a dramatic appearance (this is just werewolves in general, not necessarily what I want to see in Freeborn, which has a rather different story from most werewolf movies, or so I gather). Keep in mind though, that should a werewolf gain a significant increase in muscle density, the outward appearance in terms of overall bulk would not change all that much, while a drastic increase in strength would be experienced. As for the guy who punched through a brick wall, that brings up another point. He punched through not because of great strength, but because he had weight and inertia working for him (which is why you can do the same feat with a sledgehammer). A werewolf would logically be able to smash through a brick wall if he weighed 500 pounds regardless if the majority of that weight was from heavy bones, or from huge, bloated muscles. Weight is weight.

Two questions, though. Did the dude rip his hand up in the process? And, why was he punching a brick wall in the first place?

Ha ha, I asked my brother that question once (why would you punch a wall, break boards..etc) His answer was to show that he could!

Same here. He would do it just because he could. He didn't mention whether or not he ripped his hand, but I assume that he did.
And as far as inertia, I thought that I had already implied that. My apologies.
One other note, before I forget, is the fact that muscle build is really nothing but reattaching the connections of muscle tissue damaged by the ripping that happens during exercise (soreness). My thought is the fact that there is a much stronger connection between the cells found in a werewolf, and therefore, he/she would be able to lift more, but not have a larger set of muscles.

I can't vote as the choice does not exist.

I say all the above depending on the size and mass of the werewolf.

Van Helsing werewolves I would say could pick up and throw a car, not too far but definetly do it.

Ginger Snaps werewolves could pick up a person and drag them off.

I say size and muscle mass.

But also keeping in mind the state of mind a werewolf might be in. If the transformation is triggered by a rush of adrenaline and the werewolf is in a rage would it not be twice as strong as its size would suggest?

In folklore the werewolf was the size and shape of a normal wolf but strong enough to single handedly take down a full grown horse. Something one wolf would have a hard time doing.

So I say make them stronger than their size would suggest but not crushing coal into diamonds strong or anything way over the top like that.

Also it can depend on the type of werewolf, (thinking a mode where the world can have more than one species of werewolf) Maybe a strickly small sized physical one is muscle mass limited but a more mystical breed could have Hercules type strength where they are so much stronger than the average being of their mass.

Also we need to look at how the muscles are attached. A cat or rabbit can jump much further than their muscles should allow thanks to their flexibility allowing for a recoil affect.
But then there is size/gravity limits.
If a werewolf is superhumanly strong and human sized than maybe they could jump onto the roof or throw a motorcycle.
But if they are bulky and short limbed they may be strong but limited in agility and speed.
It really comes down to shape, size, and muscle design if you want to keep the werewolf 100% physical and not mystical.

Rhuen wrote: In folklore the werewolf was the size and shape of a normal wolf but strong enough to single handedly take down a full grown horse. Something one wolf would have a hard time doing.

One wolf would have a hard time taking down a deer all by itself, unless it was an extremely experienced hunter or the deer was close to death already.

But domestic animals are a whole different issue. It is easy for a single wolf to take down even a large animal such as a horse or a cow, because such animals are weaker and slower than their wild counterparts and have weakened defense instincts (they don't immediately know what to do in order to best defend themselves).

Jamie wrote:

Rhuen wrote: In folklore the werewolf was the size and shape of a normal wolf but strong enough to single handedly take down a full grown horse. Something one wolf would have a hard time doing.

One wolf would have a hard time taking down a deer all by itself, unless it was an extremely experienced hunter or the deer was close to death already.

But domestic animals are a whole different issue. It is easy for a single wolf to take down even a large animal such as a horse or a cow, because such animals are weaker and slower than their wild counterparts and have weakened defense instincts (they don't immediately know what to do in order to best defend themselves).

true, then I will re-write what I said.
One wolf would have a hard time takeing down a moose or something that much larger than its self.
In the myth I was speaking of the werewolf not only took down and killed a plow horse but also ate the whole thing and this werewolf was only the size of a normal wolf.
So exaggerated strength has always been part of the werewolf even before it was as we think of it today.

Rhuen wrote:So exaggerated strength has always been part of the werewolf even before it was as we think of it today.

It is true that this does appear in a lot of legends. Werewolves looked exactly (or almost exactly) like real wolves but were apt to be larger, faster and stronger (not to mention that consuming something several times your body mass in one meal is frankly magical). But other than in some modern sightings, I haven't found them as supposed to be leaping over buildings or generally doing any feats of strength that a large bear couldn't do.
I think the real question is, are werewolves no stronger than a really strong animal, or are they more like comic book characters?

Jamie wrote:

Rhuen wrote:So exaggerated strength has always been part of the werewolf even before it was as we think of it today.

It is true that this does appear in a lot of legends. Werewolves looked exactly (or almost exactly) like real wolves but were apt to be larger, faster and stronger (not to mention that consuming something several times your body mass in one meal is frankly magical). But other than in some modern sightings, I haven't found them as supposed to be leaping over buildings or generally doing any feats of strength that a large bear couldn't do.
I think the real question is, are werewolves no stronger than a really strong animal, or are they more like comic book characters?

a very good question which takes me back to the earlier post I made regarding body mass and muscle shape, along with skeletal shape.
After all whose to say their bodies are just a combination of human and wolf and not filled with all sorts of other biological tricks. In the collerbone thread I add the idea of a flexible collar bone able to change between a collarbone shape and wishing bone shape. So what if a werewolf's muscles are denser and more "hydrolic" than our own allowing for amazing fits that seem mystical but are simply something no other mammal is capable of.

I talked with a lady on another forum I frequent. She said that when she was growing up, they had two pet wolves. They accepted her mother as their Alpha and when her 400-pound, 6.5' mountain man stepfather took them for a walk he had to lean back with all his strength to keep from getting pulled over on his face and dragged.

So wolves are at least as strong as malamutes. It's true that wild animals have a general run of strength that is superior to domesticated ones.

WELL.....what if the bitten was some scrawny little geeky human ....when bitten would he be a scrawney little werewolf or would he gain some consideralbe strength and body size..