THE PACK Message Boards

Am I the only one who gets really aggravated every time a thread is locked?

It just rubs me the wrong way. I understand that we have younger members and I agree against the no dirty pictures or cursing. But every time a thread is locked it feels to me like a dictatorship. Let the individuals duke it out. It's never the "kids" fighting. Plus, most of us are over 16 anyway; old enough to stand our own. I feel like it's never really that bad when the thread is locked anyway.

I frequent another board that has way more pointless threads, an insane amount of cursing, dirty sayings and pictures in signatures and almost always an argument...yet never a locked thread.

Does anybody else think thread locking is too harsh? Or is it just me?

(No offense to the moderators meant of course)

I really don't. Somehow this board has to be kept in order, so things don't go bad s*** bonkers. I like seeing a forum that doesn't contain an insane amount of mindless crap and swearing.

Just because someone is over 16 doesn't mean they won't act like a kid, complete with swearing, name-calling, and temper-tantrums. And therein is why the moderators lock threads.

Threads get locked very rarely here. I think our moderators are more than fair, and in fact, sometimes I think they're too fair.

Sometimes, yes. If a thread that had previously been constructive gets derailed by two or three squabbling individuals, locking the thread can sometimes be taken as a punishment upon the posters that didn't do anything at all, and sometimes strikes me as lazy -- the easy way out of it.

Also, locking a thread containing a tense moral or political argument is kind of like screwing the cap back onto a bottle of dry ice. It doesn't make the tension between two posters go away, it just denies them an outlet for it, and that passion for their side of the argument doesn't go away; it ferments into anger and frustration which will be released the next time the two posters cross paths in a debate thread.

I get that the mods/admins want to maintain a communal setting, but people won't suddenly set aside their differences and get along with each other just because a neutral third party told them to. You can leave a bucket underneath a dripping pipe, but eventually that bucket will fill up and start to overflow. Tensions are better off released constructively instead of bottled up indefinitely.

So while I acknowledge that the mods/admins have the best of intentions, I openly question their decision making. Sooner or later they are going to have to review those locked threads and decide for themselves who specifically was at fault (if anyone at all) and address them personally. Left alone they are the proverbial bad bulb in a string of Christmas lights that make the others go out; the process will just repeat itself in the future unless the staff can make a stand on more than just a "no fighting" rule.

I'm also wondering... why not just delete the posts that are the issue? I mean, that's what happened on one thread where an argument started. One of the mods/admins deleted the posts and let the thread stand... and this is in no way a shot at the mods/admins that are on here. Honestly, i think if none of them existed, this place would be a lot worse... but it would make things easier, wouldn't it?

Just my thoughts, spoken in a very quiet non-agressive tone. And i think if they could add tone buttons onto the internet it would be easier too but...

Well, let me answer that.

One: Locking a thread that has degenerated into either a flame war or a name calling match is our gentle way of reminding people there are rules and we will enforce them.
If we delete one troublemaker, then we have to delete every reply to that person as well. That's Censorship. I for one won't do that. Ever.
Not to mention that at least one of the deletees will claim to be simply defending him/her self, and they will probably be right. SO, deleting won't work since we injure those who claim defense along with the perpetrator.

Locking a thread preserves the things that caused it to be locked in the first place. Read and learn! We don't like to lock things, but if there is a blather match going on, what else is there to do?

And Never send a post you wouldn't mind getting yourself. Some people seem to be ignoring that little bit of advice.

Now IF nobody responded to the trouble maker, as in IGNORING their post, then we could delete without a care. Sadly, somebody is going to try to defend themselves, and thereby hangs the tale.

You don't like it, we don't like it; but somebody has to keep people civil here, and if you have a Moderator or Administrator title, then it's your job.


My suggestion is try again and don't respond to the stirrers of the chamber pot. Then surgical deletion will work.

If I may, I'm going to take a unique approach to replying to this thread.

What I see when I look at other forums on the Internet?

Disarray, discord, and selfish people that really don't care about the next person, a board filled with flame wars, with only one or two people being bright points of light who provide informative and humorous posts.

What do I see when I look at the Pack?

The exact opposite.

I see a great deal of respect, I see people thinking highly of each other, I see people who can be big enough to accept another person's opinion without diving into a flame war; I see intelligence, a great resource, good people, a haven and a bastion.

I admit that even the Pack has one or two negative aspects, but mostly it's a wonderful place, it's incredible that a place like this could simply be.

If anything, I'd want to see the boards become even more strict if I could be sure that it would build upon the good nature of this place, if I could be sure that it would smooth out the rough edges and leave a place where everyone's excellent to each other. But I don't know.

What I do know is the Pack, as it is now, is something marvellous. And I don't want to go tinkering with what isn't broken.

RedEye wrote:Well, let me answer that.

One: Locking a thread that has degenerated into either a flame war or a name calling match is our gentle way of reminding people there are rules and we will enforce them.
If we delete one troublemaker, then we have to delete every reply to that person as well. That's Censorship. I for one won't do that. Ever.
Not to mention that at least one of the deletees will claim to be simply defending him/her self, and they will probably be right. SO, deleting won't work since we injure those who claim defense along with the perpetrator.

Locking a thread preserves the things that caused it to be locked in the first place. Read and learn! We don't like to lock things, but if there is a blather match going on, what else is there to do?

And Never send a post you wouldn't mind getting yourself. Some people seem to be ignoring that little bit of advice.

Now IF nobody responded to the trouble maker, as in IGNORING their post, then we could delete without a care. Sadly, somebody is going to try to defend themselves, and thereby hangs the tale.

You don't like it, we don't like it; but somebody has to keep people civil here, and if you have a Moderator or Administrator title, then it's your job.


My suggestion is try again and don't respond to the stirrers of the chamber pot. Then surgical deletion will work.

(Sound advice... i didn't say anything because honestly, no i don't think this board is too strict. Yeah, it might hurt the person who made the thread at first but... in the long run if the threads locked it saves a hell of a lot of crap from spilling over into the rest of the forum. And as for the human's views... he did notice the rest of those posts were deleted, however... it'd probably be more work for the mods/admins to take out entire pages of posts then is worth it. People will always have some differences between them, and i see a locked thread as a way to learn what not to do. Besides... hasn't everone had at least some help from the mods/admins on a thread before? They don't spend all their time locking threads, and honestly, when they do, it's usually to end a flame/bash war before someone gets their feeling's hurt and leaves here for good. There is usually a good reason why they lock the threads... and RedEye's right... it is to keep the peace. That's just my two cents, spoken in a non-judgemental tone at a steady calm level.)

this one dosen't really mind locked or not locked it's all the same to me

Does anybody else think thread locking is too harsh? Or is it just me?

Harsh isn't the word, it is done with good intentions, but I do think it is somewhat big brother. People are who they are, often it can be quite illuminating to see what people will turn into when provoked, and silencing them is not a solution to immature behaviour, it's a simply countermeasure, a delay

Tensions are better off released constructively instead of bottled up indefinitely.

this is a fair point but in the mods defence I suppose it's not always constructive

I'm also wondering... why not just delete the posts that are the issue?

freedom of speech I suppose, as much as no one wants to hear a racist or sexist, every view should be voiced without filtering, else why would you be in a forum topic communicating to individuals other than yourself?

That's Censorship. I for one won't do that. Ever.

Noble, but locking is getting pretty close to cencorship, I see there is a fundamental difference, but you are clearly stopping them when particular things are said.

And Never send a post you wouldn't mind getting yourself

I'd agree with that

if I could be sure that it would build upon the good nature of this place

strictness never builds on good nature, it's simple punishment/negative reinforcement operant conditioning

In the end I hate flame wars and insults as much as the next person, but seeing who resorts to this is, as I said, illuminating and can say alot. We have alot of thoughtful individuals here, and in the end we are all human, we can't be perfect all the time, but this is what we take for being human and interacting, the good with the bad. And resisting is a testament to our better nature.

I know theres rules.

O.O not that I have a problem with it, but I would have to agree with MoonKit.

There is no "Freedom of Speech" here. This is not a public forum. This is a private forum that requires one to register to communicate, and to agree to a certain set of written rules. Much as a bouncer at a club breaks up a fight and throws the offenders out, so too should the moderators here have the prerogative to keep the board civil.

That's true. In a practical sense, the 'strict-ness' of a board is ultimately up to the moderators.

The job of a mod is not an easy one (I may not be a mod here, but I have been elsewhere, so bear with me). You need to strike a balance between regulating uncivil behavior on the board and protecting the board's purpose, which is free exchange of ideas. In my experience, being a moderator calls for a good sense of situational ethics, rather than strictly following the rules of a forum to the letter, locking any thread that passes some arbitrary line.

That being said, I love it here. I've been to boards whose moderators can only be described as fascist; they had a set of rules that they interpreted a certain way, and no other way. If you passed the line, LOCKED. Asked the moderator why your thread was locked? You get a mail of the forum rules, and nothing else. Complain on another thread? LOCKED. Ask the mods to be just a little more open-minded? BANNED.

So I lasted about a month on that forum. The Pack, on the other hand, is like that one table in the cafeteria where all the weirdos go; we all accept each other, regardless of initial impressions, because we know that such impressions are often false. And we respect each other because we see kindred minds and similar ideas, people who understand us and that we understand in turn.

I like that.

W'rkncacnter wrote:The Pack, on the other hand, is like that one table in the cafeteria where all the weirdos go; we all accept each other, regardless of initial impressions, because we know that such impressions are often false. And we respect each other because we see kindred minds and similar ideas, people who understand us and that we understand in turn.

I like that.

Agreed.

I equate the Pack as being more similar to a Family than a forum. And I wish that it be preserved in that fashion -- because that's what makes it special.

Although family members should always be honest with each other, and siblings are always getting in to scuffs, there's no excuse for abusing your relatives. A PACK can't survive with constant disagreement.

Noir-Okami wrote:

W'rkncacnter wrote:The Pack, on the other hand, is like that one table in the cafeteria where all the weirdos go; we all accept each other, regardless of initial impressions, because we know that such impressions are often false. And we respect each other because we see kindred minds and similar ideas, people who understand us and that we understand in turn.

I like that.

Agreed.

Hear hear!

W'rkncacnter wrote:The Pack, on the other hand, is like that one table in the cafeteria where all the weirdos go; we all accept each other, regardless of initial impressions, because we know that such impressions are often false. And we respect each other because we see kindred minds and similar ideas, people who understand us and that we understand in turn.

I like that.

I happen to sit at a lunch table like that. Then again, if I didn't, then I probably wouldn't be on The Pack.

messege removed

W'rkncacnter wrote:The Pack, on the other hand, is like that one table in the cafeteria where all the weirdos go; we all accept each other, regardless of initial impressions, because we know that such impressions are often false. And we respect each other because we see kindred minds and similar ideas, people who understand us and that we understand in turn.

I like that.

I sat at many tables like that actually, when i was still in school... we like it here... why do think we stayed?

There is no "Freedom of Speech" here. This is not a public forum. This is a private forum that requires one to register to communicate, and to agree to a certain set of written rules. Much as a bouncer at a club breaks up a fight and throws the offenders out, so too should the moderators here have the prerogative to keep the board civil.

I tend not accept arbitrary restrictions, but would hold no grudges if a moderator excercised any consequences on me I explicitly accepted. You know, I wouldn't spout profanities on a kids website but wouldn't otherwise avoid saying things for no reason. To that extent there is freedom everywhere, so long as you accept the consequences.

thats true wselfwulf, but there has been many insidents that happen to members where moditors get rumors of low ranked members of this pack forum accusing wolves above their rank of smack talking, nagging, and other accusings that they can think of just to raise their rank.

Heck that happened to me and I didn't do anything bad...I have been a nice wolf since I begun my account here, and yet one and a half weeks later I get a message saying that I've smack talked, nagged, and cursed (which I never did that).

The only things i do are communicate with my fellow pack members nicely plus with alittle ha ha's here and there.

kind of makes you wonder why I log off for just a week maybe two weeks.

If you're concerned about Freedom of Speech, there's an entire ocean of webpages out there cartering to your expressional needs.

yeah I know what each person is getting at and to explicitly answer the topics question, it is generally not too strict. I simply find it a shame the a topic would ever fall by the wayside as a result of a persons moment of immaturity, or oversensitive response to criticism or even uneccesary criticism.
It works well here because of the general good character of all the members, even in a few cases I've seen of regrettable things said, it was handled with maturity by all involved, even by the transgressors eventually. On other boards it's not so pretty, things become taboo, people become afraid to say things, communication and input suffers. Though I know it takes alot of patience and is frustrating to deal with the same old things, like for example on this board people claiming to be werewolves.

The regulations are just to maintain social order. Additionally, they're guidelines, not rules. So it doesn't mean we'll just come after you and just randomly maul you with a baseball bat if you don't abide, it just means we discourage such things to occur. And by disobeying such guidelines that you might be warned/prosecuted (which means not always--to not at all), typically depending on the severity of the issue. Personally sometimes I think some discussions are locked even when nothing is wrong; just due to someone being trigger happy by locking it merely based on prediction. Perhaps such discussions would go along just fine, or perhaps turn into havoc. Who knows.

takyoji wrote: Personally sometimes I think some discussions are locked even when nothing is wrong; just due to someone being trigger happy by locking it merely based on prediction. Perhaps such discussions would go along just fine, or perhaps turn into havoc. Who knows.

I know it sounds pre-emptive, but I'm personally not against the 'trigger happy' locking of threads. There are certain elements that occur in threads that when left alone, explode; and I think the majority of the mods/admins can recognize these ingredients. (although I do understand the point you're trying to get across)

"Oh, sorry New Orleans, we kind of knew something was going to happen, but we didn't feel like acting until something really went wrong. Y'know, just incase everything worked out fine." (my apologies for bringing up politics here, this was the best example I could think of at the time.)

Bah. I really don't want to argue semantics here. As far as I know, it's best to judge "strict-ness" on a thread by thread or action by action bases, because a large part of the moderation here appears to be subjective. If anyone has a specific issue in mind, or objects to a locked thread, they're welcome to contact an Admin. In fact, I don't think htere's anything against members recreating locked threads...

The Pack board is not that strict, I mean I don't see anyone getting banned or warned for doing stupid things. Because everyone here is smart.

At least the Pack Board is better than Visions Fantastic! I mean they are way stricter than the moderators here and they ban Disneyland fans and people for what they stand for and believe in, if they don't believe what other mindless Disney fans believe.

They ban me for no reason without warning. Because of my werewolf interests! VF has went downhill since 2007!

Respect the Pack's guidelines! That's what wolves do in their own pack hierarchy.