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A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:23 pm
by Werewolfdragon
I have desided to create this topic due to the strong effect it has had on another post. However this post has only to do with how a werewolf, Should be viewed using his claws and hands. As I stated before I beleave the werewolf, Should not be depicted as relying on their claws as a primary weapon. While the claws/ hands of werewolves, due to the human aspect of the werewolf, do infact have their uses, Such as grasping, and such, I feel that they should not be used as a werewolves primary weapon... Because the werewolf Is both human and wolf. Neither the wolf, or a human. would use their nails to fight in a manner such as this. Wolves do not use their claws, anything like cats or other clawing animals, like bares. And a humans nails are to weak to do this in any manner other then to scratch. However in no way could a human ever think of clawing with such force as to kill. Humans hit, punch, Etc... As for wolves, Who ever heard of a wolf, Using their nails to slash their prey. Except within the movies? A wolves main manner of attack is not its nails but its bite...

At any rate, This is the discution. So take it away, and enjoy.

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:52 pm
by RedEye
Okay, I'll bite... so to speak. :P

My werewolves (Wulfen Blood) have a sort of compromise hand/paw setup.
Passing in Smooth, their hands are as human looking as anyone else's with one leetle exception: they retain their claws (flat planar claws based loosely on human finger nails). This necessitates almost daily care with wire cutters and files to keep them looking at least passably human, as well as daily maintenance in the form of claw painting to hide the rather darker claw color.

While their hands remain human appearing when in Smooth; when they shift, their hands change into a sort of semi-paw semi-hand structure. They have pads on their palms and fingers, with fur between the pad structures. They lose the full "precision grip" of Smoothskin humanity and in its place get a sort of semi-"precision" grip wherein they can touch their thumb to their index finger and middle fingers only. Ring and pinkie fingers are out of reach of their thumb.
The hand in total is longer and almost apelike, with the thumb farther down the hand structure. The benefit is that this gives them a tremendous mechanical advantage with their grip, making it over twice as strong as a standard human's grip strength.
They lose a bit of dexterity, too; and try compensating for it by doing things like knitting, embroidery, calligraphy, and playing various keyboard instruments as well as string instruments; were the lack of a precision grip is not as important.* Actually, flat-handed (typing, etc) they are no more handicapped than anyone else.
They are restricted in small spaces, though. Many firearms have trigger-guards that are too small to admit their fingers, and precise work on very small parts is also a problem. The best example comes from one of the side stories: the Wulf preferred an SKS or AK-47 to an M-16 because of trigger-guard size and difficulty with the small parts of the M-16.
That's my contribution...
* The violin is the exception to this, since the small neck and close positioning of the strings makes it almost impossible to play.

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:27 pm
by Werewolfdragon
So, let me make sure I have this right. In your werewolves, only when in mostly human form do they have good dexterity. However in this form the strength of their grip suffers. And when they transform into more of a full werewolf, their dexterity suffers, but their gripping strength greatly increases. If I have this correct then Based on this alone, I see a werewolf that while in their full Werewolf form, would be great at Breaking the necks of its prey by using sheer strength alone. not necessarily needing to bite to deliver the final blow. However this would make for a dull Werewolf movie because there would
be little or no blood involved. To take care of this problem I would have a werewolf such as this, Use its strength to restrict the movements of its prey, with its hands/ claws, then deliver a bloody blow with fangs. Still I would not have it using its hands/ claws in the slashing manner. unless your intent is to simply knock the head off its prey by with pure strength alone. such as a powerful slap or punch upside the head that results in knocking the head back thus snapping the neck, and dislodging it from the rest of the body. This could work, And it wouldn't be unbelievable like using its nails to slice
through flesh, But it would still be more like a bare then a werewolf to me at any rate... :P

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:31 am
by sugarpoultry
My werewolves aren't violent in nature. ;) But that's just me. But, if they did have to defend themselves, it would be their claws for fear of biting someone and turning them.

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:44 am
by JoshuaMadoc
Werewolfdragon wrote:However this would make for a dull Werewolf movie because there would
be little or no blood involved.

So, what, no blood whatsoever means the movie's gonna suck? That's a very poor definition of a not-so-dull "werewolf movie"...

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:22 am
by Terastas
Werewolfdragon wrote:If I have this correct then Based on this alone, I see a werewolf that while in their full Werewolf form, would be great at Breaking the necks of its prey by using sheer strength alone. not necessarily needing to bite to deliver the final blow. However this would make for a dull Werewolf movie because there would be little or no blood involved.
Actually, I think that would make for a pretty awesome werewolf movie. That would be a werewolf that could kill someone and the crime scene investigators wouldn't even think: "Damn, just like in the werewolf movies" in passing. Gruesome bloody slasher murders raise a million red flags, but people suffer neck breakage and blunt force trauma all the time.

Replacing the cliche gorefests with a true crime drama? I think that'd be an awesome movie.

That aside, the werewolves in my writing do occasionally swipe at their opponents, but not to scratch them with their claws so much as to strike hard with the pads of their palm, which is basically the werewolf equivalent of throwing a punch with a clenched fist. The werewolf does lose a lot of their dexterity, both from the transition itself, and from the sheer awkwardness of having a different kind of limb than they are accustomed to in general (werewolves typically only spend a couple of hours in gestalt form every two or three months), but they retain their abilities to grasp and grapple. People get scratched frequently when in conflict with werewolves, but only as a result of the punching and grabbing -- not deliberately.

The first change to the hand during the shift from man to wolf is the presence of the aforementioned pads (tidbit: the legend about the sign of the pentacle? That's what the space in between their pads looks like), followed by the hardening and change in color of their nails. The hand doesn't actually condense into a true paw unless the werewolf pushes beyond the gestalt 50/50 mark (or if it does, it does so do a negligible degree), so the simple definition would be to say that the werewolf has clawed and padded hands.

The hands don't increase in size or length in any way during the transition (assuming they can transition to a convincing full wolf form, the hand should actually get smaller), so they can use most tools designed for human grips, at least in theory. They can hold all but the smallest of firearms as directed, but typically do not because the changes in their sensory organs make it difficult; they have trouble aiming properly and the sound is murder on their ears. There are, in fact, a lot of things a werewolf could do with their hands in theory but cannot on account of other anatomical factors involved.

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:18 pm
by sugarpoultry
kitetsu wrote:
Werewolfdragon wrote:However this would make for a dull Werewolf movie because there would
be little or no blood involved.
So, what, no blood whatsoever means the movie's gonna suck? That's a very poor definition of a not-so-dull "werewolf movie"...
Exactly. Why should werewolves always be stereotyped as the violent killing machines? And a movie can be great without blood and gore.

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:42 pm
by Leonca~
My werewolves aren't violent in nature. ;) But that's just me. But, if they did have to defend themselves, it would be their claws for fear of biting someone and turning them.
I hadn’t thought of that, but it would be a great way to explain why a werewolf might prefer to fight with claws over teeth.
That aside, the werewolves in my writing do occasionally swipe at their opponents, but not to scratch them with their claws so much as to strike hard with the pads of their palm, which is basically the werewolf equivalent of throwing a punch with a clenched fist.


Another interesting idea. Depending on how strong the werewolf is it could be like being attacked by a big cat. Even if the claws don’t get you there is enough power behind that blow to do some serious damage or even kill through a broken back or neck.

Hmm, I haven’t really given this idea much attention when designing my character’s “species”. Since they usually have full wolf form they almost always fight in a way that would be expected of a real canid. Since they don’t infect humans through bites unless they want to they also don’t have to restrict what they do for fear of infecting anyone, so biting or snapping can be used defensively. They don’t have an unusual hand/paw mixture, but they can change their front paws into hands if they want to do something like use a weapon quickly and don’t want to go all the way back to human form. I would imagine that would still be somewhat awkward though. It does present the strange and disturbing image of being shot or strangled by a wolf with human hands. Forensics would have an interesting time explaining that one. :lol:
In short paws/hands are rarely used to fight in any way that you would not expect them to be in a real wolf or human.

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:06 pm
by Werewolfdragon
sugarpoultry wrote:My werewolves aren't violent in nature. ;) But that's just me. But, if they did have to defend themselves, it would be their claws for fear of biting someone and turning them.
Off topic
One thing that you must take into acount is that a werewolves Bite only changes those who are bitten, but are not killed by it.
Back on topic
However their are some movies and myths that depict the same thing happening from any wound delevered by a werewolf. A very good example of this is the person who incounters a werewolf, and is scratched by that werewolves claws, on say an arm, yet somehow does not end up loosing his or her life. The wound receved as a result of the werewolves claws, then becomes infected. and hair begins to grow around this location, The end result being they later become a werewolf themselves... Granted this more often then not does infact seem to take longer then say had they been bitten, and lived...
Sort of back off topic
There are some who bepict this even happening after death has occured, However wouldn't this make them more of an
Un-dead monster then a werewolf?

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:33 pm
by Werewolfdragon
Terastas wrote:
Werewolfdragon wrote:If I have this correct then Based on this alone, I see a werewolf that while in their full Werewolf form, would be great at Breaking the necks of its prey by using sheer strength alone. not necessarily needing to bite to deliver the final blow. However this would make for a dull Werewolf movie because there would be little or no blood involved.
Actually, I think that would make for a pretty awesome werewolf movie. That would be a werewolf that could kill someone and the crime scene investigators wouldn't even think: "Damn, just like in the werewolf movies" in passing. Gruesome bloody slasher murders raise a million red flags, but people suffer neck breakage and blunt force trauma all the time.

Replacing the cliche gorefests with a true crime drama? I think that'd be an awesome movie.

That aside, the werewolves in my writing do occasionally swipe at their opponents, but not to scratch them with their claws so much as to strike hard with the pads of their palm, which is basically the werewolf equivalent of throwing a punch with a clenched fist. The werewolf does lose a lot of their dexterity, both from the transition itself, and from the sheer awkwardness of having a different kind of limb than they are accustomed to in general (werewolves typically only spend a couple of hours in gestalt form every two or three months), but they retain their abilities to grasp and grapple. People get scratched frequently when in conflict with werewolves, but only as a result of the punching and grabbing -- not deliberately.

The first change to the hand during the shift from man to wolf is the presence of the aforementioned pads (tidbit: the legend about the sign of the pentacle? That's what the space in between their pads looks like), followed by the hardening and change in color of their nails. The hand doesn't actually condense into a true paw unless the werewolf pushes beyond the gestalt 50/50 mark (or if it does, it does so do a negligible degree), so the simple definition would be to say that the werewolf has clawed and padded hands.

The hands don't increase in size or length in any way during the transition (assuming they can transition to a convincing full wolf form, the hand should actually get smaller), so they can use most tools designed for human grips, at least in theory. They can hold all but the smallest of firearms as directed, but typically do not because the changes in their sensory organs make it difficult; they have trouble aiming properly and the sound is murder on their ears. There are, in fact, a lot of things a werewolf could do with their hands in theory but cannot on account of other anatomical factors involved.
Ok, so it would make it more of a challenge to be able to figgure out it was a werewolf doing the killing, if there was no blood left around. Still this would make it into more of a drama then a horror movie to me anyway...

As for the pads you speak of. This is one idea I have always liked alot. because they make the change look more real and These pads would also serve to aid the werewolf in so many ways. just one way being to also aid in traction.
the werewolves in my writing do occasionally swipe at their opponents, but not to scratch them with their claws so much as to strike hard with the pads of their palm, which is basically the werewolf equivalent of throwing a punch with a clenched fist
This description does not have to do with using its claws to slash and cut. So i must say that i like this idea much better then the ones i have seen in most movies.
Yes a werewolf could very well use its entire hands in a way that also uses its strength, In a punching or restraining manner, Still to me If this was done in a slaping manner this would look like a bear to me. But then again this is just my opinion, and should be taken lightly. I suppose their has to be some type of ballance between human and wolf.

As for a werewolf using loud human tools like guns, I agree with you here. This would hurt a werewolves ears badly. The only type of human tools i can ever see a werewolf using would be things like swords, large knives, and maby a gloved blade that has been custom made to fit on the werewolves paws/ hands, claws ect... This is to say that the werewolf has the mind and the means to have something like this made to fit him or her. This would then serve as a form of weapon that could be employed and would be suitable to use inplace of their own nails. You know the gloves kind of like those employed by Freddy Couger. In the night mare of elm street? but made in a manner that didn't have the ability to move but where more fixed? Just an idea, one that i think might end up looking very cool...Still even this idea has its flaws, after all anless the werewolf in question has the mental awareness to fight in a more human manner this use of the gloved knives would clash with the pure animal madness of the werewolves instinct...

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:28 pm
by Leonca~
However their are some movies and myths that depict the same thing happening from any wound delevered by a werewolf. A very good example of this is the person who incounters a werewolf, and is scratched by that werewolves claws, on say an arm, yet somehow does not end up loosing his or her life. The wound receved as a result of the werewolves claws, then becomes infected. and hair begins to grow around this location, The end result being they later become a werewolf themselves... Granted this more often then not does infact seem to take longer then say had they been bitten, and lived...
Might work if the infection is based on a curse. There is also a fear that some diseases, like rabies, can be spread through scratches. Most likely untrue, but it could have inspired some ideas.
There are some who bepict this even happening after death has occured, However wouldn't this make them more of an
Un-dead monster then a werewolf?
I’ve heard of that being used as a plot in one of the Howling movies, with someone being turned into a werewolf by being scratched by the claws on a werewolf skeleton. Always thought that sounded silly. :lol:

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:07 am
by sugarpoultry
Werewolfdragon wrote:One thing that you must take into acount is that a werewolves Bite only changes those who are bitten, but are not killed by it.
I had a hard time understanding that. You made it sound like they needed to be bit twice.

For me, a bite has to be more than just a bite, it needs to be long and hard, so that the venom (saliva) seeps deep into the blood stream. It can also be dangerous. If there isn't enough, it can either cause nothing to happen, or kill them. That's my opinion of it.

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:20 am
by Terastas
Leonca~ wrote:
That aside, the werewolves in my writing do occasionally swipe at their opponents, but not to scratch them with their claws so much as to strike hard with the pads of their palm, which is basically the werewolf equivalent of throwing a punch with a clenched fist.


Another interesting idea. Depending on how strong the werewolf is it could be like being attacked by a big cat. Even if the claws don’t get you there is enough power behind that blow to do some serious damage or even kill through a broken back or neck.
Werewolfdragon wrote:This description does not have to do with using its claws to slash and cut. So i must say that i like this idea much better then the ones i have seen in most movies.
Yes a werewolf could very well use its entire hands in a way that also uses its strength, In a punching or restraining manner, Still to me If this was done in a slaping manner this would look like a bear to me. But then again this is just my opinion, and should be taken lightly. I suppose their has to be some type of ballance between human and wolf.
True, although my original reasoning was mostly just taking into account that werewolves spend the majority of their lives in human form unless stated otherwise, therefore I figured their methods of fighting would be reflective of the way they would fight in human form. One of the only things I could not picture a werewolf doing with a callused/padded hand is clenching a fist, so I figured instead that werewolves would "punch" with the bottom of their palm, sort of like the way kung fu artists do when breaking bricks.
Werewolfdragon wrote:However their are some movies and myths that depict the same thing happening from any wound delevered by a werewolf. A very good example of this is the person who incounters a werewolf, and is scratched by that werewolves claws, on say an arm, yet somehow does not end up loosing his or her life. The wound receved as a result of the werewolves claws, then becomes infected. and hair begins to grow around this location, The end result being they later become a werewolf themselves... Granted this more often then not does infact seem to take longer then say had they been bitten, and lived...
I'm pretty sure I remember Anthony Brownrigg saying that, in Freeborn, werewolves can infect others by scratching and biting because the shift causes their gums and cuticles bleed during the shift so they have their own infected blood in their mouth and under their nails. It's an idea I'm borrowing off of for my own writing.

Off topic
Werewolfdragon wrote:Freddy Couger.
Freddy Couger, the woman over forty who dates men in their twenties! :lol:

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:13 am
by sugarpoultry
Terastas wrote:I'm pretty sure I remember Anthony Brownrigg saying that, in Freeborn, werewolves can infect others by scratching and biting because the shift causes their gums and cuticles bleed during the shift so they have their own infected blood in their mouth and under their nails. It's an idea I'm borrowing off of for my own writing.
Hmm interesting, and that's cool. I don't get the scratching thing. Being Human, the TV show, has that same idea. To me biting just makes much more sense, but I don't care if people use it.

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:51 pm
by RedEye
I suspect the scratching thing came about for one reason:

Wolves can't make a fist. It would follow that a Werewolf would scratch, rather than risk busting knuckles by punching somebody.

And... I can attest personally that contrary to the movies, busting someone in the chops hurts you as much as it hurts your target unless you're wearing protective gloves of some sort.
Never seen a Wulf wearing gloves...
Well there was that time with the full length opera gloves, but otherwise...

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:32 am
by Vagrant
I have a few werewolf Worlds in my mind, but there's one where new ideas often arise and that's amidst my Werewolf Nation. A sort of post-mutant scenario where they're now recognised as sapient beings (along with a few other kinds of critters) and granted a landmass to congregate on.

These critters are the sort that could probably body-slam a tank and have crazy regeneration capabilities, so if they get into a fight it's common belief that it's not really all that fair for them to use killing force against their opponents... unless that becomes a necessity for survival, of course. That's not happened yet.

They can even regenerate limbs if need be, very slowly over time... oooor they can chow down on the raw materials they'd need to actually provide the body with the resources it needs to recreate said limbs, that would go much faster, so it's very hard to fatally wound one of 'em.

Due to this a number of different non-lethal fighting styles have been developed, some using weapons like staffs, others just based around grappling and disarming. I blame Kitetsu for this completelyl, because he never stops going on and on about such things... and the man makes a lot of sense when he isn't been too frothy-mad and ranty.

There are even some goofy mad-tinker/engineer types who're constantly making new kinds of non-lethal weapons as well. One even postulated a weapon that could chain-fire low grade anaesthetic darts at a rapid rate. This is an idea that's being tossed around between these goofs as to how they could pull it off. I blame Howlitzer for this kind of thinking.

...

No, Howlitzer, you don't want to make one of those, too.

So mostly they just have a little fun with anyone who decides to combat them but mostly they're seen as peaceful creatures, which leads to some really uncommon werewolf stories, woo! I suppose sugarpoultry has some equally uncommon stories too if her werewolves aren't obsessed with violence. Good for you, sugarpoultry!

As for the disease, it isn't really transmitted by claws, and not necessarily through the mouth either, it can even be an STD. But no... this doesn't mean that people can copulate werewolves into existence as it doesn't quite work that way. The change actually lies dormant and even when it's transferred it's not easy to bring it out.

It involves an altered state of mind and forms of hypnosis and meditation, it's a rather long and drawn out process, and one part of it is even mildly dangerous as once they do bring the Wolf out, they have to be ready to restrain that person. They don't turn evil or angry or anything silly like that, but they are confused because the heightened senses overload them, no one's ever ready for the first time... man.

<.<

But yes, after that, they're eased into the shift and the new form, so these weres don't really have to worry about their gift jumping around because the process to properly bring out the wolf isn't all that easy, and it is very specific. So it's a bit of a countermeasure. A person who obtains a sample of bodily fluids can't ingest them and suddenly decide to be the wolf, they'd need help with that, educated help.

I'm almost tempted to set a number of short stories based in this scenario, and that might end up becoming my NaNoWriMo project for this year, but I digress.

As for the actual state of the hands once-shifted (to get to the meat of the matter), it's similar to what RedEye described but the thumb isn't moved as much, they'd be more like the weres of Howlitzer, Jingles, or Myenia. Has anyone actually seen Howlitzer's paw gloves? I actually imagine it would be a bit like that...

In fact, let me find those gloves on Howlz's dA.

[Merry, jingly intermission.]

Ha! Neat. The two phases of the creation of Howlitzer's glove come up as the first two results when one searches for 'werewolf gloves'.

And here you can see the gloves themselves!

So the end result is akin to a human hand, but bigger, fluffier, clawed, and padded. Some dexterity is lost in the process but not as much as one would think, and a werewolf who spends a lot of time in their form can become quite capable with their paw-like hands.

Visual aids help with stuff like this. And forgive me but I'm going to go on a walky-talk here and segue (Gods I love saying that), in that I think Howlitzer should really set up shop and start selling those if he ever gets the chance, he'd make a killing. Morever, he should name his shop the Paw Mall. Bit of a play on words there, geddit? Maul.

Aaaanyway!

I've said about all I'm going to here and knowing my walls of text I wouldn't be surprised if this post gets skipped over because I'm more rambly than Bram bally Stoker. ...well, all right, I concede, perhaps not more rambly but at least as rambly. Then again, I think everyone from that era was a bit rambly, the rambly Victorian era of rambly people...

*** Vagrant wanders off, muttering to himself.

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:51 pm
by Werewolfdragon
sugarpoultry wrote:
Terastas wrote:I'm pretty sure I remember Anthony Brownrigg saying that, in Freeborn, werewolves can infect others by scratching and biting because the shift causes their
gums and cuticles bleed during the shift so they have their own infected blood in their mouth and under their nails. It's an idea I'm borrowing off of for my own writing.
Hmm interesting, and that's cool. I don't get the scratching thing. Being Human, the TV show, has that same idea. To me biting just makes much more sense, but I don't care if people use it.
Off Topic:
Yes I agree biting does make more sense. I have yet to see the wolf who didn't bite to kill prey.
And despite the threat of creating new werewolves. If you ask me that wouldn't be so bad. Wouldn't that make the movie more interesting? Just think about it for a second. Isn't the one who does the
biting the leader? Anless one of the others challenges him or her? Another thing that has always confused me is the fact that when one of the new werewolves kills the one that bit them, They revert back
to normal. Isn't the bite supposed to effect the blood and the DNA? So how is it that killing the werewolf who bit you is supposed to take that out of you?? Wouldn't killing the leader simply make you the
new leader? Wouldn't you still be a werewolf your self? one more thing isn't the wolf supposed to be a PACK animal? they have their family fights do they not? Just a thought...
Back on topic:
As for the claws and hands, no they wouldn't have as good dexterity as the pure human hand. Still Scratching and clawing their victims up like mince meet?? come on! Where is the fun in that??
Back off topic:
As far as werewolves go, They would move way to fast, to be the target for their prey to attack their neck, even when going in for the kill with their fangs... Only another Werewolf would even have a
chance of pulling off such a feat... Then it would be a madder of the strongest and the most experienced, werewolf. This means no new recruit or newly created werewolf would stand a chance antil they
gained more experience then their creator, or somehow was able to outsmart the stronger werewolf. Not a feat that would be at all easy to pull off, because of this it would very likely end up being the
new werewolf that was killed in the end...
Back on topic:
At any rate, How do you betray a werewolf using its claws and hands in a way that truly depicts and suits them?? If it was me that was a werewolf, I would only use them to block, or to aid in defense,Or to climb a tree, or a wall, As a tool, things like this, I would not use my claws and hands as a weapon anless it was my last resort. then it would be employed in a defensive manner, not an aggressive manner. I would use my hands and claws to aid me with climbing, Like the werewolves are shown doing walking on a wall, or even sometimes on the ceiling. I can see it now. I am on the ceiling clinging
their in the darkness. Along comes my prey ( Human ) I let go and drop down in front of them, they go to scream completely terrified unable to move, I jump in closer for the kill biting their wind-pipe, and tearing out their jugular vein, and jump back away from them. They collapse to the ground now unable to make a sound, blood spraying everywhere. then its over. I collect the body, and enjoy. They never had a chance to do anything but die. Mean while because I killed them with my very first strike they never had a chance to excape there for I do not have to worry about creating a new
werewolf...also since I didn't use my claws and hands for the main weapon, Their would be no blood patterns on the walls. Just in front and to the sides in a pool of blood on the ground. and the werewolf who did this would also come out of it with almost no blood on him or her except around the face...Lets say the body was left there to be found. the fang marks on the neck would most likely be blamed on a rabid or crazy dog or animal, with exceptions. Before being blamed on a werewolf... still any way you look at it. It just sounds much better to me...

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:58 pm
by sugarpoultry
Yes I agree biting does make more sense. I have yet to see the wolf who didn't bite to kill prey.
And despite the threat of creating new werewolves. If you ask me that wouldn't be so bad. Wouldn't that make the movie more interesting? Just think about it for a second. Isn't the one who does the
biting the leader? Anless one of the others challenges him or her? Another thing that has always confused me is the fact that when one of the new werewolves kills the one that bit them, They revert back
to normal. Isn't the bite supposed to effect the blood and the DNA? So how is it that killing the werewolf who bit you is supposed to take that out of you?? Wouldn't killing the leader simply make you the
new leader? Wouldn't you still be a werewolf your self? one more thing isn't the wolf supposed to be a PACK animal? they have their family fights do they not? Just a thought...
I never understood the whole kill the leader you are back to normal thing. Or the wolf that bit you. Like on American Werewolf in Paris. I always thought that was pretty stupid.

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:12 pm
by Werewolfdragon
I agree with you here to some extent, I beleave that the passing of the curse most likly came from the Vampire, The enemy of the werewolf. I could be wrong though. But that is way off the topic...

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:21 pm
by Wingman
Well, werewolves and vampires are fairly closely linked in many cases, in some cases I've found that the only differences between vampires and werewolves are cosmetic details and sunlight vulnerability. To my mind, the killing of the progenitor werewolf/vampire would break any supernatural influence they had, thus ending the "curse", such as forced transformations and inexplicable bloodlust. Even a basic psychic link could explain it, as the "master" werewolf/vampire is older, and thus will likely have a better handle on their abilities and traits. The bloodlust, forced transformations, and all that could simply be products of an empathic link. Once that link is gone the trigger is gone, and thus poof, you no longer transform on the full moon.

Though, I can't recall reading about a werewolf that broke the curse, and then later found out they could still transform.

Completely off topic, I know.

I don't really have anything to add to the topic of werewolf claws that hasn't already been said by one person or the other, it would really depend more on the individual werewolf than them all as a whole.

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:59 pm
by sugarpoultry
Maybe someone should make a topic on that so we don't post off topic here. :lol:

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:26 pm
by Werewolfdragon
Werewolfdragon wrote:As requested above here is the link to the new post called "" The link between Werewolves and Vampires? ""http://www.thepacksden.com/thepackboard ... 73&start=0
That continues this off topic discussion In a place where It Is the topic at hand. I hope it is to your likeing...
On Topic:
So there are many diferent types, and views of werewolves, Each with their own maner of fighting style, Still This has yet to explain the best way to depict them using their claws and hands. So lets aproach this in a different manner, Lets say you where a werewolf your self, With all that has been said thus far, How would you fight, or use your hands or claws??
An example of this question would be, If I Was a werewolf, I would use my hands only in a defensive manner, to help block incoming attacks, And as a weapon, Only as a last resort, due to their decreased dextarity, Or as a tool to aid me with running. The claws I would use to aid me in climbing, holding, Ect... The claws would not be used by me as a weapon anless I had no other choice, as a last resort, Even if I was backed into a corner I would still have the option of using my claws to climb the walls in order to excape, Otherwise I would use my fangs, not my hands, or claws...

This is my view point so lets have yours??

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:01 pm
by Aki
Werewolfdragon wrote:
Werewolfdragon wrote:As requested above here is the link to the new post called "" The link between Werewolves and Vampires? ""http://www.thepacksden.com/thepackboard ... 73&start=0
That continues this off topic discussion In a place where It Is the topic at hand. I hope it is to your likeing...
On Topic:
So there are many diferent types, and views of werewolves, Each with their own maner of fighting style, Still This has yet to explain the best way to depict them using their claws and hands. So lets aproach this in a different manner, Lets say you where a werewolf your self, With all that has been said thus far, How would you fight, or use your hands or claws??
An example of this question would be, If I Was a werewolf, I would use my hands only in a defensive manner, to help block incoming attacks, And as a weapon, Only as a last resort, due to their decreased dextarity, Or as a tool to aid me with running. The claws I would use to aid me in climbing, holding, Ect... The claws would not be used by me as a weapon anless I had no other choice, as a last resort, Even if I was backed into a corner I would still have the option of using my claws to climb the walls in order to excape, Otherwise I would use my fangs, not my hands, or claws...

This is my view point so lets have yours??
I'd use my claws and my hands as suits me. Rigidity is death. Claws are deadly implements which can rip open veins with ease - if a shot at one is afforded, using claws to do so would make sense and would be what I would do. I wouldn't go sticking my head out, which has much less reach than my arms and if there's more than one combatant sticking your fangs in someone is just a bad idea. You're immobilized for a few seconds while you bring them close an sink your teeth in.

Assuming human combatants, this gives more than enough time to aim and fire. If these humans have automatics or shotguns, this is a death sentence unless werewolves are for some reason immune to bullets or regenerate wounds at a rate that would make Wolverine green with envy.

Claws would clearly be useful as a tool outside of combat. Anyone with half a brain would see that and use them for such. Why bother grabbing a box cutter to open a box when you can use your nice sharp claws? :D

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:58 pm
by Werewolfdragon
Point well made, We now know why you would use them, However we still do not know, How you would use them?? I guess this is my fault for not better explaining myself. It is very good to know why
one would use their hands and/or claws, However it is also necessary to know How one would use them, What I mean to say is When fighting, would you use them to grab, block, hit Ect.... Also the main
reason I originally made this post was to explore the different fighting styles of the werewolf, such as the manner they are most commonly shown as slashing and clawing their victims into mince
meat...based on all the movies I have seen this looks unreal, not to mention very painful, just imagine for a second that while nails are strong, because they are made out of calcium, they are not that strong,
In the movies they are often depicted as tearing through madder such as muscle, tendons and even bone. This would break even the strongest nails after only a few times, yet the werewolves of the big
screen are shown doing this over and over again.. OUCH!

I guess what I am looking for is both why and how you would fight if you where a werewolf, as well as a type of vote as to how you would use your claws and hands, and why?

Re: A Werewolves Hands and Claws

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:58 pm
by Aki
Because a werewolf probably has honest-to-god claws, made for ripping flesh into itty bitty red strips, I doubt that would be much a problem. While human nails are made of keratin and thus not very strong, as is plainly visible on a skeleton, wolves' claws are made of bone. While wolves do not use their claws, these reason is twofold:
- Lupine limbs do not work that way. A wolf's legs are not flexible enough to lift and paw-swipe like a cat. This is because they endurance hunt and such capability isn't necessary. When the time to strike comes, they dogpile the prey and drag it down with the weight of their bodies rather than simply catching up to it and batting it over or ambushing it and then batting it in the face with claws.
- Wolf and dog claws are dull. This is because they're constantly walked upon. This is no problem for a werewolf - his claws are new every time he shifts. They'd be sharp enough to make most cats envious.

So, all this on mind, I'd slash with my claws. Because they can work for that, because they're claws and not nails and while not designed for offensive use, they're still claws.

They're only good for defense against another werewolf, against prey animals like deer (knocking away dangerous hooves or the like), or if for some reason you get some incredibly foolish or Bad a** human who decides he wants to try and punch you out. A human with a weapon isn't likely going to care about your defensive posture. You aren't going to be able to parry or block those attacks well (or at all, in case of a firearm equipped hunter). The only real option is to try and evade damage (Staying out of reach, namely) entirely and strike fast and hard when you get an opening.

TL;DR: Claws are not nails, claws kill things, and claws are weapons and thus poor defensively (humanity invented shields for a reason - weapons make poor protection!)