How painful should the shift be? And...

[RedEye]

Pain comes in a variety of flavours, but there would be, I believe two flavours of pain in Shifting.
First, the sheer discomfort of being redesigned, either by force like mechanical traction to make a shortened, scarred limb usable again: as in Burn Recovery (almost as painful as the burn in some cases) -or- by a Lycomorphic Template Viral Morph, as in Werewolf SHIFTING. These have a tendency to slowly reduce in discomfort as the body becomes accustomed not just to the shift, but to the process of shifting. THe person's body in both cases becomes more plastic as the process repeats. It is never completely painless, though.
Second, there would be the mental outlook of the process: At first, in the "What the *&%$^ is happening to me?" phase, pain would be increased by simple curiosity and newness, sort of "Are we there yet?" on a physical level. Your mind is trying to keep track of exactly what's happening, so it can repair it later...hence, a lot of pain on the first few shifts. Then something happens: The person knows what is happening, and the result. Now, the pain level is determined by the desirability of the outcome. If one fears the Wolf, the pain will be greater. If one welcomes the Wolf, the pain will lessen. Both will be the result of the desirability of the final outcome.
There is a lot of Psychology involved in the level of discomfort of the shift, which will affect the pain levels experienced. The more desirable, the less the pain.

[forsaken_wolf]

well I have to say is I have to agree with what some people said.

[Vuldari]

When it comes down to it, my opinions on this subject pivot upon my opinion and perspective on What I feel a Werewolf is and Why the character is so interesting and timeless.

A werewolf is NOT natural. It is 'SuperNatural'. It is a creature that exists by bending or breaking the rules...and this kind of thing can not be done without penalty. ...it just feels wrong (in a 'Cosmic Balance' sort of way) if there is no punishment...

IMHO...the most facinating, and significant element of the Werewolf Character is the Transformation. It is what makes the person/creature so significant. It is the Climax of the characters existance, and what sparks our imaginations and inspires us to wonder and awe.

It is the change from a mundane Human to a Inhuman beast that seperates the Werewolf from just any other monster, like a Minotaur, a generic Demon, or some other kind of WolfBeast.


Therefore...it seems absolutely crucial to me to make every single transformation as significant as possible...not only to those in the proximity of the Lycanthrope, but to the Shifter themself. This attitude simply does not come across At All, Whatsoever, for the person doing the shifting, if the change is as smooth and insignificant as blinking ones eye, and can be done at any time, anywhere at the werewolves leasure.

IMHO, I think it is more exiting and significant if there is ALLWAYS a reason for the werewolf NOT to change...a Price...a Danger...a Punishment...

Basicly, I find it much more interesting when the werewolf is afraid of Themself. ...when the approach of an unvoluntary change is something worth panicing about...

I like it when (In the 'only changes durring a full moon' scenario, For Example) the person who IS the werewolf looks upon the rise of the moon over the horizon with the same ,"Oh ****", look on thier face as everyone else around them who knows what will happen next.

Any time I think about the character of the "Werewolf" taken Seriously, (As much as one CAN take a Mythological creature seriously), I allways imagine it in this way.





The exeption to this rule is when the Werewolf character is NOT being taken seriously. In the scenario of Comedy Media, Such as Cartoons, Comics, Literature and even Film, "Casual" werewolves, (that shift back and forth carelessly as a part of thier daily lives) are great fun, and deligtful characters.


Also EXTREME Action Werewolves, such as in combat heavy universes like DarkStalkers (Jon Talbain) or 'White Wolf's games, or off the wall Manga/Animes can break these rules to thier hearts content. (If 5-Year old girls in pink dresses can crush tanks with thier minds, then a werewolf can shift from a 5'5" accountant into a 10'8" WolfBeast in the blink of an Eye)

Satire Action-Comedy combos are also free to turn the rules of being a werewolf upside down as well, with little or no complaint from me.


I just want to make that clear.



It's only when someone expects me to take the character seriously, in a 'Drama' style setting that, "Painless, Anytime, Anywhere", transformations push my WTF-O-Meter into the Red Zone.




Once again, this is all IMHO, naturally.

[Shadow Wulf]

My own take is that it is painful in a newly infected individual, especially the very first time, though the next several times aren't entirely fun either. Ultimately, it gets easier as the body becomes accustomed to it, as the physiology of the body has been redesigned at the histological (tissues, or bunches of cells) level to do it.

After a few years, it's a lot harder not to do it.

Thats how I see it. Why should a shift always be painful if the werewolf has been doing it for...let say....20 years?

The body should already be "used to it." It should be a smooth flowing shift. A shift to where you don't even have to concentrate as hard to perform.

I believe that later on the shift should be less painful to but not completely painless and smooth like it was nothing as you said, I like for the werewolf to experience some pain no matter how much he gets use to it, enough for him to tighten hes muscles and make it seem somewhat painful.

[vrikasatma]

Ever crack your spine or get a serious deep-tissue massage? Those can be painful to varying degrees (depends on how kinked up you are) but at the same time they're relieving.

I view the shifting of an experienced were to have a similar sensation. Errrrrrrrgh! — *Pop* — Ahhhhhhhhhhh...

Or maybe painful in the way getting a tattoo is painful, sharp at first and then endorphins kick in and make it worth your while.

[Figarou]

Ever crack your spine or get a serious deep-tissue massage? Those can be painful to varying degrees (depends on how kinked up you are) but at the same time they're relieving.

Was it that way when you was a little girl?


I didn't have back problems when I was little. I could bend over and pick up that penny I see lying on the ground. Today, my back is stiff. Its hard to move around without having a muscle tighten up on me.

I view the shifting of an experienced were to have a similar sensation. Errrrrrrrgh! — *Pop* — Ahhhhhhhhhhh...

Maybe for an old werewolf. Not a young one.

[MoonKit]

Maybe for an old werewolf. Not a young one.

Young, old? Whats the difference? The same exact thing would happen. The only difference between a older werewolf's shift and a younger ones would be the level of fear. (in my opinion anyway)

[Vuldari]

Maybe for an old werewolf. Not a young one.

Young, old? Whats the difference? The same exact thing would happen. The only difference between a older werewolf's shift and a younger ones would be the level of fear. (in my opinion anyway)

I think what Figarou was saying is, the types of aches and pains that apply to the previous statement only apply to older people whose bodies are beginning to wear out...where as all but the oldest of werewolves would have fresh, youthful joints and muscles due to lycanthopic regeneration, and therefore would not feel those kinds of pains.

...even so, the issue here is not whether werewolves have back problems or not, but rather, what it would feel like to have your bones stretched, compressed, bent, twisted, seperated, fused...and have you tendons stretch and constrict and twist...and your muscles shift positions, grow, shrink and reconfigure...and your internal organs slide around inside of you...along with all sorts of other changes and movements inside ones body...all in the course of a brief moment (anywhere from a few seconds to an hour, depending on your personal opinion).

My younger cousin used to be able to bend over backwards and lay her palms flat on the ground, while leaving both feet flat on their heels, and she said it didn't hurt at all...

...but being flexable and not feeling any painful discomfort from all that stuff I mentioned above are two COMPLETELY different scenarios.

It might Help...but unless being a lycanthrope makes you as flexable and malleable as "Mr. Fantastic", durring transformation, then I just don't see how it would help THAT* Much.
(*Enough to make it not hurt At All, that is)

[vrikasatma]

Ironically enough, I'm getting a firsthand look at charley-horsed muscles...

I was skating around my apartment complex on my new TriKing Kobra last night. The damn thing pitched backwards and I landed on the pavement on my tailbone.



Nothing broken, but I have the single most savage case of muscle spasm in my lower lumbar right now.

[ELÄIN]

It's also depends on the person shifting.. he/she may want to shift and may find it not so painful but natural... and also except who or what they are while another may fight the change causing it to be painful... The first time would be painful but I think if you grow to except it, you and your body would get use to the change if you choose to except the change and not deny what you are..

[Vuldari]

[wolf_demon_666]

pesonally I think that it should always be painfull
Although overtime the transfomations should become quicker it should always be painfull cuz when you think about it all the bones and joints in your body are reforming, there is no way that is going to feel good

[Avareis]

Think of all the twisting, all the extention and retraction of bones. Think of how the muscles would react due to the stress of the transformation. It's got to be painful, perhaps first timers would probably pass out from the experience. At least one does get use to pain. However, a person could perhaps, die from the experience as well, backing up the phraise, "One the strong survive..."

Woo! It's been a while for me, hasn't it? I been around, but never socialize with the pack. Too much has been happening. What a pain!

[lupine]

Its gotta hurt, yeah. But a werewolf isn't your average joe . A werewolf has almost superhuman like gifts and abilities. Just the enhanced healing that werewolves possess suggests that the transformation, although painful, is bearable. I agree that initially the first few changes would be agonising, but i've always gone with the thought that the change and the actual being in were form could almost be kinda addictive, almost like it gets hold of you and grows inside. Something that you WANT. I suppose that comes from the old films and legends, The WEREWOLF Once Bitten movie went along the same lines, that it grows inside, almost like a Virus, making you more and more evil or vicious. Its THE HUNGER.

[JoshuaMadoc]

...but outside of comedy satire, I don't agree or like that it would be 'painless and as smooth and natural as bending your fingers', or anything short of something that would be described as, (every time) 'One of, if not THE most intense sensations they ever experience in thier entire life', for that matter.

O RLY? Me doing this doesn't hurt at all.

[Apokryltaros]

Don't the royal Cambodian dancers bend their fingers back as a part of their dances all the time, too?

[Vuldari]

...but outside of comedy satire, I don't agree or like that it would be 'painless and as smooth and natural as bending your fingers', or anything short of something that would be described as, (every time) 'One of, if not THE most intense sensations they ever experience in thier entire life', for that matter.

O RLY? Me doing this doesn't hurt at all.

Hunh?

I said that bending your fingers was "PainLESS and Smooth"

...and that transforming would not be this kind of natural function and motion and so would NOT feel comparable to that action.


This quote was in response to someone elses suggestion (I don't know from where...it may have been another thread) that, because werewolves are Designed to transform, that doing so would be no more uncomfortable than simply moving your body.

...which I was disagreeing with...alot...

[Human Wolf Eyes]

I think it should be painful WHENEVER! The whole bone-shifting, another part specific part of your DNA kicks in, yeah! That's gotta hurt!

[BlackWolfDS]

the first few times yeah. But after that, i don't think so. Think of it as stretching. The more you stretch the more flexible you will become and soon the flexing will feel normal.

[A Feline Presence]

*pokes nose in* Mmmm, I think if it was instantanious(sp) as usual werewolf depictions are, it may verge slightly on painful, but realistically pain would probably reverse the shift (imo) unless the push to shift was so insanely strong there was nothing you could do about it.

In time, you'd learn to control it more and it shouldn't hurt, a big pressure type feeling like you're going to burst maybe, but all this rolling around on the floor screaming and howling, nu uh.

Well, my lil imo

[Vuldari]

I will say this. The first transformation in AWIL...that was more than a little overkill, in the screaming pain department, even for a first transformation.


However...at the same time, I still like to think that in the more frigntening of the biologically tied werewolf incarnations, it would be more than painful enough to bring a tough person to tears, and even possibly cause one to pass out and/or die if anything went wrong. (Person too weak or wounded to survive initial metamorphosis...complicating medical conditions...fighting against it so hard as to cause severe self-inflicted internal damage resulting in hemorrhaging, etc, etc.)

Overall, it just wouldn't feel right to me if it doesn't at least Sting to some significant degree, even for magical/mystical transformations. The pain is the payment.

...I'm all for one feeling absolutely FANTASTIC once the proccess is over, though.
...just not DURRING...

[Rhuen]

I can see the original transformation as being very painful. and fighting the transformation as well.

However I think besides the initial pain after the transformation really gets under way that you really wouldn't feel it and instead have a light headed "electric buzz" feeling all over your body like heating up and being cold. from the nervious system rewireing its self and going numb. After all when the tail grows so does the spinal colum and when the skull changes shape so does the brain.
In fact I can forsee a release of endorfins from the brain to ease the process.

[Jessie-Simone]

I think it would reduces in pain over time as you get youst to it but is still very painful.

[Ookamikaze]

You'd get used to the pain after a while, used you were in a weakened condition and shifted.

[Huntress]

I Think the pain should reduce but still be a little painful c'mon people think about it ur growing a tail ur growing a muzzle ur growing nails ur bones are changing position ur insides are changing position, jst think about it.