Wolves..We gotta save em..

DarkShadow · Post by **DarkShadow** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:49 pm

EXACTLY!

Amoux · Post by **Amoux** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:08 pm

Teh_DarkJokerWolf wrote:
Amoux wrote:http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=18965

http://www.doi.gov/issues/wolfrecovery.html

Here are two websites that say that wolves are over-populating the area.
So what if they are? Are they still supposed to be murdered? No!! It's just like saying the human race is doing such..There are plenty of humans..In some peoples case to many...You don't see people going out killing off a bunch of them unless they got serious issues...That's no excuse..If wolves are to many in one area, RELOCATE!! Why kill off a species that was already endangered once?! They were brought back to these locations, but now they are being killed off again!! WTF is that all about!! It's rather stupid..The same thing will happen over an over again..Why do that when there are plenty of places where wolves are wanted? This world is big enough for us all..

Who are you mad at? Me?

I agree, relocation is a much better solution than just killing them off , but don't you think they've thought of that? I mean, were talking about people(biologists and such), well educated, dedicated people who have spent most of their lives trying to bring the wolf(and many other endangered animals) back into the wild and off the endangered list; I'm sure they've thought of relocation and have put it into affect.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:21 pm

Amoux wrote:Who are you mad at? Me?

No...I'm angry at the situation..They don't think of these things..Had they some many species would not be extinct now, like set showed us..There's plenty now, but before too long..well I needn't say it..Man has made this mistake countless times..It hasn't worked yet..

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:36 pm

Amoux wrote:
Teh_DarkJokerWolf wrote:
Amoux wrote:http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=18965

http://www.doi.gov/issues/wolfrecovery.html

Here are two websites that say that wolves are over-populating the area.
So what if they are? Are they still supposed to be murdered? No!! It's just like saying the human race is doing such..There are plenty of humans..In some peoples case to many...You don't see people going out killing off a bunch of them unless they got serious issues...That's no excuse..If wolves are to many in one area, RELOCATE!! Why kill off a species that was already endangered once?! They were brought back to these locations, but now they are being killed off again!! WTF is that all about!! It's rather stupid..The same thing will happen over an over again..Why do that when there are plenty of places where wolves are wanted? This world is big enough for us all..
Who are you mad at? Me?

I agree, relocation is a much better solution than just killing them off , but don't you think they've thought of that? I mean, were talking about people(biologists and such), well educated, dedicated people who have spent most of their lives trying to bring the wolf(and many other endangered animals) back into the wild and off the endangered list; I'm sure they've thought of relocation and have put it into affect.

in short answer, no. They havent thought about the other possiblities, they may have thrown the idea around but they havent really took it into consideration. They just wanted an excuse to have another hunting spree and thats it, nothing else. Most Bioligist and scientist would agree that they shouldnt be killed and just be relocated but the government of Idaho just wont listen to them. 1,000 wolves isnt overpopulating, have you seen how big Idaho and Montanna is? And how little the human population is over there?. The cattle ranchers will over exagerate for anything to get their way. Another big thing why they would rather just kill the wolves is because its easier and less expensive to do than relocating them.

Amoux · Post by **Amoux** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:49 pm

Shadow Wulf wrote:1,000 wolves isnt overpopulating. The cattle ranchers will over exagerate for anything to get their way.

I never said that 1,000 wolves is a population problem.

Shadow Wulf wrote:in short answer, no. They havent thought about the other possiblities, they may have thrown the idea around but they havent really took it into consideration. They just wanted an excuse to have another hunting spree and thats it, nothing else. Most Bioligist and scientist would agree that they shouldnt be killed and just be relocated but the government of Idaho just wont listen to them.

Did you do any research before you typed this? If so, then can you please give me the website so that I and many others can read it as well?
If you haven't, then you should next time; before you decide to say someone is completely wrong.

Set · Post by **Set** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:52 pm

Amoux wrote:I never said that 1,000 wolves is a population problem.

How many times do we have to quote this?

Amoux wrote:Here are two websites that say that wolves are over-populating the area

Yes, yes you did.

Amoux · Post by **Amoux** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:54 pm

Set wrote:
Amoux wrote:I never said that 1,000 wolves is a population problem.
How many times do we have to quote this?

Amoux wrote:Here are two websites that say that wolves are over-populating the area
Yes, yes you did.

Set I never said 1,OOO was an over population problem.

Set · Post by **Set** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:55 pm

Then what was the point of those two websites? (Which, by the way, DON'T say wolves are over-populated...you added that on your own.)

Amoux · Post by **Amoux** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:11 pm

Set wrote:Then what was the point of those two websites? (Which, by the way, DON'T say wolves are over-populated...you added that on your own.)

Set, you sound like your getting up set.

The first website says that the wolf population has grown far beyond what is necessary for sustainability. Many are worried that the increasing number of wolves is having a toll on the livestock.

Set is says that in the first website.

The second stats that the norther rocky mountain wolves are growing bigger and expanding to other ares. The ESA stats that they will only protect the wolves with they stay in the range they are supposed to stay in(national parks). The other wolf packs are expanding as well.

Like I said before, I got most of this from ABC. I've already told you that they had a story on it a while back. I'm still in the middle of researching it.

Anook · Post by **Anook** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:21 pm

Over-population

The two websites don't say those exact words, but they do imply it.

Set · Post by **Set** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:31 pm

Amoux wrote:The first website says that the wolf population has grown far beyond what is necessary for sustainability. Many are worried that the increasing number of wolves is having a toll on the livestock.

I'm sorry, but thriving =/= overpopulated. And as for the worries about livestock? Has there been even one attack on livestock by a healthy wolf in those areas? Personally, I'd be more worried about feral dogs. They're a far bigger and immediate threat to livestock. I've had to chase off plenty of dogs harassing my horses before, but not one single coyote or anything similar. And there's an abundance of them out here along with bobcats, mountain lions, etc. Domestic animals gone feral are far greater dangers than anything wild, especially shy creatures like wolves.

Amoux wrote:The second stats that the norther rocky mountain wolves are growing bigger and expanding to other ares. The ESA stats that they will only protect the wolves with they stay in the range they are supposed to stay in(national parks). The other wolf packs are expanding as well.

And this isn't expected? Wolves have HUGE territories. Miles and miles for a single pack. It's only reasonable to think that growing and newly forming packs would seek out a piece of land to call their own. It's stupid to think they would stay within borders of parks, as animals don't recognize human boundaries. Just their own. A wolf doesn't know it could be killed if it steps over a line drawn in the sand. Only humans, the ones holding the guns, know that.

This subject does get me a little miffed. It's blatant stupidity combined with deliberate ignorance, and the worst of the effects are felt by the ones who have no idea these arguments even go on. The animals that want nothing more than to survive. They're hunted, killed, their families torn apart and their lives thrown into chaos. Why?

Because they exist.

*will stop fuming now, as this rant is bound to get ugly if it continues...*

Anook · Post by **Anook** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:44 pm

Set, who are you calling ignorant?

Amoux? Or the people that set up the website he/she got his/her info from.

I mean, Amoux tried to do some research to surpport his/her claim.

Its not a big deal if(I'm calling you a he) he misinterpret the info. Everyone makes mistakes and I don't think Amoux was saying that thriving equaled over-population either.

*I'm not going to say anything else.*

Anook · Post by **Anook** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:53 pm

*I'll say one last thing to Amoux*

Ok, I think you might have misinterpret the ABC story(and thats ok). I watched it and they said a hunting license was require to prevent the over killing of wolves so the population wouldn't decrease. That story was awhile back so, you either just forgot over time, or you just heard wrong.

Set · Post by **Set** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:54 pm

Anook wrote:Set, who are you calling ignorant?

Amoux? Or the people that set up the website he/she got his/her info from.

People in general, though one thing that annoys me is Amoux claims to have done research, but doesn't seem to know much about the subject at all. Whether that's selective memory or lying, I'll let you decide.

Anook · Post by **Anook** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:07 am

Well, I understand where your coming from.

But, I don't see why Amoux would have a reason to ly. Maybe he/she was just trying to get people to see it from a different point of view.

Anyways, I have nothing more to say.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:39 pm

Anook wrote:Well, I understand where your coming from.

But, I don't see why Amoux would have a reason to ly. Maybe he/she was just trying to get people to see it from a different point of view.

Anyways, I have nothing more to say.

It's not so much that he's lying at all, it's the fact that he seemingly to ME is saying that humans have a right to kill off these wolves..Wolves do what they do naturally, blame doesn't come into the picture.. So I guess for man it's to kill kill an KILL more till they take over the world..A sick sport it is to kill anything unless it's for food..Deer for instance.. For man Food, clothing,Sport..For Wolves..Food, survival, keeping nature in check, killing off the sick an weak, for the healthy to survive, feeding their pack..No sport. Man has always killed for sport an their own sick twisted way..Man even kills man..You can't possibly defend one who kills for sport an power!! Wolves are trying to get AWAY from man..They want nuthing to do with humans if they can help it, yet these Hunters seek them out to do them harm..There is no right in that an there never will be no matter how you try to look at it their way..I'm sorry..

In case no one has seen man makes the most problems..Wolves didn't start all these wars, it was man!! They say the wolf is a killer..HA!! look at the facts...Wolves have never killed a human..Yet they are said to be killers..WTF!! It doesn't make sense...You can't make sense of what these people say..Calling one a killer that doesn't do such is an insult! These poor creatures just want to live in peace as most of us do, but they can't because they cause so much problems..Man cause everything..they make issues of things that should be well left alone. Power hungry..They hunt for power, wolves from survival, but never on man..These hunters kill off these wolves an then when they hunt they bring down a skin bull an in turn they eat it an get sick..They blame the wolves still..For their stupidity..It's Karma..It will keep happening..It's been going on for hundreds of years an yet they haven't learned..God gave man power..Man has abused it greatly in many ways..

Defend those who can't speak for themselves..Wolves are smart...They know damn well to stay away from man..Man doesn't seem to know to stay away from them an leave them be..The real animal isn't covered by fur..

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:26 pm

I swear to god I had everything I was going to say typed out. But I hit a link and it erased my thing I was about to post.

EDIT:As much as I want to keep on sitting here trying to remember everything I posted. I have alot of homework to do. Ill try to finish this tomorrow. Sorry, Its just that once I type something I cant seem to type it agien and be anywhere as good as the original.

SON OF A b****! This is gonna bug the crap out of me for the rest of the night!

DarkShadow · Post by **DarkShadow** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:12 pm

Teh_DarkJokerWolf wrote:
Anook wrote:Well, I understand where your coming from.

But, I don't see why Amoux would have a reason to ly. Maybe he/she was just trying to get people to see it from a different point of view.

Anyways, I have nothing more to say.

Defend those who can't speak for themselves..Wolves are smart...They know damn well to stay away from man..Man doesn't seem to know to stay away from them an leave them be..The real animal isn't covered by fur..

Thats a good point. I know some people dont like to hear that, but it is true. man HAS screwed up a lot. we tear down forests to make factories that are bad for us and the enviroment. the forest is the wolve's home, and we keep taking it away. no wonder they have no where to hide and live in peace.

ShadowFang · Post by **ShadowFang** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:30 pm

Humans need to worry about the human overpopulation problem before they start worrying about wolves.

nekocj · Post by **nekocj** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:07 pm

I wrote a paper about this subject actually if anyone wants to read it lol. I thought about sending it to "someone" not sure who, because anyone in power to do so would probably stick it in the shredder. In any case there are some good websites in the bibliography. In any case I don't know why everyone is arguing

I'm sure we can all agree on one thing, and that is we hate the fact people are killing wolves in this way (or any way) so lighten up and have some hot cocoa! Geez.

-Neko

MoonKit · Post by **MoonKit** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:01 pm

You know...nature had a way of dealing with over populated species before humans found guns. It was called starvation. Nature will always balance itself out if left alone. It really irks me that humans want to control the population of everything but themselves. "We have too kill all the bears because there is too many but sure, we can have our third kid, even if several diseases run in our family."

PariahPoet · Post by **PariahPoet** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:20 am

Oh thank goodness I'm not alone. Nobody ever listens to me that humans are wayyyy overpopulated. Already over-crowded countries like China and Japan are still desperately encouraging their citizens to have more kids that thearea can't support. Why? More money. That's always what it comes down to. I think that all murderers and child abusers should be sterilized, period. Then encourage couples to use birth control after the second kid.

This is why I have no desire for children of my own. With the state of society and the environment, I don't think they would have any kind of future. Plus my mate and I have terrible genes. I have a 50% chance of being a carrier for muscular dystrophy and he has a genetic mutation that causes problems with the skeleton(he has no collarbone). I don't want to take that gamble. I would rather adopt, if anything.

I'm certainly not against people who have big families, that can be a wonderful thing. But I think it is irresponsible to reproduce just for the sake of saying you have 20 kids.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:33 am

In a way we do have our own population control, and that my friend is call WAR. Think about it if it wasnt for war we would have 5 times more people than we do today. I guess thats one thing that war is good for.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:58 am

What?..Shadow Wulf..I'm sorry that was silly..War is NEVER a good thing..Children die in these wars...Babies, infants, toddlers..You think honestly that it is a good thing? Say if the war spread to your area..Nevermind..This topic is about wolves..How man can reproduce over an over again, bringing kids into this world filling their minds with lies an deciet..Wolves, teaching their young how to survive, teach them tho stay away from man..Wolves have it burned into their heads that man is trouble..Man has it burned into their heads wolves are blood thirsty beast that kill fer pleasure..Look who's killing for pleasure..These wars we hear about are for power, they don't care who dies in the process..I dunno why wars take place anyways..Just as I don't understand why wolves are attacked..So many places out there want wolves, an there are so many locations that don't have any...Everywhere you turn there's a human, not for wolves because they are being killed..MoonKit an Pariah have very valid points.. It's funny how we all can see these problems, but the ones with the power to do something won't..

The lil people really have no say in the final decision, though we try to put our concerns out there it's like they aren't heard..So many of us see the problem, but so many of us refuse to take it to heart an make something that could make life easier for man an beast..It's always a fight for survival, but I guess with wolves it's not really a fight..They run an man knows it, an they shoot em right in the head..That wolf an the balance that once was is gone..Killing just one wolf throws off many things..

Midnight · Post by **Midnight** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:08 am

Shadow Wulf wrote:I guess thats one thing that war is good for.

As a wise man once said: "What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!"

Teh_DarkJokerWolf wrote:Wolves have it burned into their heads that man is trouble..Man has it burned into their heads wolves are blood thirsty beast that kill fer pleasure..Look who's killing for pleasure..

Very good point there.

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