Dogmatic assumptions

[Scott Gardener]

I've noticed with a lot of werewolf fiction, there's a number of assumptions that people make. And, I'm just as guilty.

A big assumption, for example, is that if werewolves existed, a top secret government agency would not want you to know that, or that the governments of the world (particularly the U.S. government and its military) would want to keep werewolves captive.

Yes, my novel made that assumption, too.

Is it a safe assumption? It's certainly a popular one, based on extrapolation from ufology lore, one of the other paranormal mythos that is considered by many more plausible.

Here's what we know.

The U.S. government is divided into the executive branch--the presidency and its various offices, which lately have pushed to step up its powers in light of current events; the legislature, AKA Congress--the House and Senate; and the judicial system. A top secret branch would most likely have to be affiliated with the executive branch, as it would be the least unconstitutional form. Several secretive branches do indeed exist, such as the National Security Agency, but they're not so secret that people don't know they exist, obviously. We can also safely assume that there is indeed a top secret Air Force base at Groom Lake (AKA Area 51), because there's no reason to spend millions and the resources of both the military and Nevada law enforcement to keep people off a plot of land that once housed an Air Force base but is now totally derelict. Someone indeed managed to sneak close enough to capture footage of that base, including someone test-piloting a former Russian plane. (Note that these verified facts do not include extraterrestrials.)

Plausible assumptions: The events that happened in E.T. are most likely an accurate rendition of how the American government would handle extraterrestrial contact, based on credible sources, such as an article in Popular Science, based on known government protocols.

I think an effort to quarantine contageous lycanthropy is a plausible storyline. If a werewolf could convert other people into werewolves by bite, then that would make nervous anyone who knew about it. The push to keep it quiet would also be a plausible story element.

Any counter-arguments?

I also think the Freeborn premise, that werewolves would insist on keeping their own secret to the point of death, is also a plausible one. The rule that our secret must be your secret--the "two choices, and in only one of them she can live..." is a believable one.

We almost universally assume lycanthropy involves diddling with DNA. Again, guilty. No one has proposed more out-there ideas, such as transdimensional phenomena or the like, which would skirt around many of the problems we routinely encounter and debate. Still, I'm a virus champion myself, which is funny, because as a doctor, I help people kill them off.

[Searif]

government agencies would want people to not know because if they did there would be a huge panic and so on, badda bing badda bomb

[outwarddoodles]

I'm betting the werewolves keep it secret, untill death. Most likely would mean a werewolf might want to live in a more wilder area and not in a city (where in the world does a werewolf hide in New York?). Also that werewolves keep orginized in packs and very secret. This could also mean planning their shifts as they can, going to the woods one the full moon nights and trying to make certain nights free in order to shift.

Also that werewolves would need to be choosy on who they bite. Unless its an accident WHY does a werewolf bite anyway? Its best they choose someone willing and that will keep it a secret to tell no one. That they don't freak out and run around saying they're a werewolf. And that they can stay responsible to it.

I'd say that sightings may go unnoticed. Even footage. There are lots of sightings of strange people, and some show such strange pictures and even videos, from what I know of I don't think we've found aleins or captured bigfoot. Some may pass on these sightings as lengends and some pass it out of their mind. It may become a fun thing in their community. Its likely it won't be a concern from the government.

Yet say the government beleives it out there. They may go on a hunt for werewolves, et would really needed to be persauded there. Its likely they would keep such a thing secret.

Say the government has captured a werewolf or now knows there are werewolves. Most likely they shall go on a crazy hunt for people who are werewolves, posibly inprisoning them. If people knew it could cause havoc that they could become a werewolf, and unlikely that they would side with werewolves. Werewolves could be killed and never shared about.

I'd doubt it truly if werewolves exsist the government is helping them, they would not allow the biting and spreading of the desiese. Unless the goverment had created werewolves themselves, inwhich they would keep secret not to create conserversy. Yet that sort of testing on humans would probaly be banned from Bush (*Spit*).

[Scott Gardener]

Good point about existing paranormal footage. There's at least one vacation video that has a yeti on it, and yet it's still regarded as a paranormal phenomenon rather than a newly identified species. There's also a lot of photos and videos of UFOs.

Part of the problem is, one video is not enough to convince true skeptics, because people submit hoaxes all the time. Someone recently identified a zipper on the famous Bigfoot footage, and the famous plesiosaurus photos of the Loch Ness Monster were also admitted to be fake by the photographer on his death bed, though some have actually speculated that this confession was itself a lie.

So, it takes more than one obscure incident; there needs to be a ton of witnesses plus followup, otherwise the "behold, world, I'm a werewolf" bit will just end up on Unknown Mysteries of the Unknown, hosted by one or another former Star Trek star.

[Set]

(where in the world does a werewolf hide in New York?)

Speaking of New York, I was watching Ghostbusters yesterday. There's a scene where the terror dog is chasing Louis on the street, and he comes to this glass sided building thing where the people are eating dinner. He beats on the glass and they just ignore him even when he screams and slides down the glass. One of the reasons that was in the movie is because New Yorkers really are like that. They're famous for ignoring pleas for help. Knowing that I don't think it would be extremely difficult for some werewolves to hide in a city like that. And people in New York can be a bit strange, so no one there would think anything of it.

[ChaosWolf]

I take the MIB approach to coverups of paranormal phenomenon...

"A person is smart; people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it."

[Howling Fan]

Speaking of New York, I was watching Ghostbusters yesterday. There's a scene where the terror dog is chasing Louis on the street, and he comes to this glass sided building thing where the people are eating dinner. He beats on the glass and they just ignore him even when he screams and slides down the glass. One of the reasons that was in the movie is because New Yorkers really are like that. They're famous for ignoring pleas for help. Knowing that I don't think it would be extremely difficult for some werewolves to hide in a city like that. And people in New York can be a bit strange, so no one there would think anything of it.

Hey, what's with the New York bashing, all of a sudden?
But yeah, you're right. People act strangely here all the time, like the guy yelling to himself on the subway last week, and no one paid attention. We're used to it now, I guess.

[Set]

Hey, what's with the New York bashing, all of a sudden?

I wasn't trying to bash. That's exactly what it says on the DVD.

[Tovam]

We almost universally assume lycanthropy involves diddling with DNA. Again, guilty. No one has proposed more out-there ideas, such as transdimensional phenomena or the like, which would skirt around many of the problems we routinely encounter and debate. Still, I'm a virus champion myself, which is funny, because as a doctor, I help people kill them off.

I think the DNA-theory is the most reasonable 'non-magical' theory of how weres can exist
Humans are sceptics, but I think changes in DNA are easier to believe, especially with all research at genetical manipulation
I, myself, believe 'transdimensiolal phenomena' are as believeable as any other theory, or maybe even more

[Figarou]

So, it takes more than one obscure incident; there needs to be a ton of witnesses plus followup, otherwise the "behold, world, I'm a werewolf" bit will just end up on Unknown Mysteries of the Unknown, hosted by one or another former Star Trek star.

Ahem

http://calypso-blue.com/werewolf/viewto ... =4924#4924

[Terastas]

I take the MIB approach to coverups of paranormal phenomenon...

"A person is smart; people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it."

This is the point I would have made. The problem with lycanthropy is that its true form is unfamiliar, but the potential concepts of such have been drilled into our skulls through a century of Hollywood and a millenium of folklore. Not everyone would get the full facts, and that's when the paranoia would start. If a werewolf or werewolves were suddenly exposed in a public setting, everyone that was there at the event would know what to expect; how to relate with them if they are good or how to combat them if they are evil, but everyone else in the world will only have the paraphrased events either by word of mouth or on the news, and since they don't have all the facts, they try to fill in the blanks by making assumptions based on what they already know. That's when people start fighting over wether they are human beings, blood-thirsty animals or minions of Hell. That's when the paranoia starts.

So yeah, there could be plenty of reasons a government agency would want lycanthropy a secret, but that would be the first and foremost reason -- to keep the masses at ease.

Speaking of New York, I was watching Ghostbusters yesterday. There's a scene where the terror dog is chasing Louis on the street, and he comes to this glass sided building thing where the people are eating dinner. He beats on the glass and they just ignore him even when he screams and slides down the glass. One of the reasons that was in the movie is because New Yorkers really are like that. They're famous for ignoring pleas for help. Knowing that I don't think it would be extremely difficult for some werewolves to hide in a city like that. And people in New York can be a bit strange, so no one there would think anything of it.

We had another thread on this concerning wether werewolves would be more suited to a rural or metropolitan lifestyle. The argument in favor of metropolitan areas was that the fast pace and large populations force people to become impersonal to their surroundings; if someone were to catch a glimpse of a werewolf, they'd either shrug it off or get plowed into by the person behind them if they stop for a look, and if a werewolf makes a monster movie-ish scene in public, most of the people running away will actually be running from the people behind them lest they get trampled.

And as Scott pointed out, yes, it would take some pretty hard-hitting evidence to prove that werewolves are real. Even a public sighting with multiple witnesses would be disregarded with skepticism. One time on one of those "is it real?" programs, they showed video footage of a UFO sighting that had hundreds of eye-witnesses, but a film crew watched the video and pointed out a that the UFO's outline remained onscreen when it went behind a building.

So yeah, a werewolf sighting might shake a local community, but the only events that could convince the world would be the ones that would cause global paranoia.

[Scott Gardener]

You've also brought up another point--ingrained assumptions brought about by both classic folk lore and contemporary movies. A werewolf is a hypothetical sort of thing at the moment; should such a thing really exist, chances are, we'd all have certain expectations about what werewolves entail. (Pun sort of intended.)

Many of the people on this board might be tempted to rush head-first to the thing, hoping to get bitten and infected with lycanthropy, even though the idea of lycanthropy being a contageous condition is itself an assumption. Many of us assume that it would be this cool and neat thing that grants certain nifty powers.

However, a lot of other people would assume that werewolves were evil, rage-driven monsters with an instinctive desire to kill for no particular reason.

And, even if werewolves were not affected by silver bullets, the full moon, wolvesbane / aconite, and the like, a lot of people would assume they were.

And thus would begin the public service announcements:

"You can't get lycanthropy by giving blood or holding hands. You can only get it through unprotected intercourse, by sharing contaminated drug needles, or from the bite of an infected individual. Know the facts. For more information, visit the Lycanthrope Global Freedom Federation website at www.lgff.org."

[Terastas]

And thus would begin the public service announcements:

"You can't get lycanthropy by giving blood or holding hands. You can only get it through unprotected intercourse, by sharing contaminated drug needles, or from the bite of an infected individual. Know the facts. For more information, visit the Lycanthrope Global Freedom Federation website at www.lgff.org."

That, of course, is assuming that the masses eventually calm down to even grasp the concept of lycanthropy. And of course, you know there'd always be some looney pastor or silver bullet salesman out there to plead the opposite.

[Scott Gardener]

Oh, you know there would be, just like everything from the comet pills from 1910, all the way up to the Y2K stockpiling and sale of gas masks after 9/11. There'd be the looneys.

Jerry Falwell would say something inane, blaming homosexuals, while his cohorts would insist that werewolves were the "Beast" from Revelations.

On the other extreme, there'd be people lined up to get bitten next, worshipping at the Church of Luna. I'll openly admit, I'd probably be somewhere just behind them.

Most people would just be catatonic for awhile with disbelief, staring at the TV, while the news rehashed over and over every detail about werewolves presenting themselves.

[Kzinistzerg]

yeah, i'd be in the "waiting to worship" group, too. but, poeple are partial herd animals- if enough were wwolves, then the'yd have to accept it as being a fact of life. but....

[outwarddoodles]

Many of the people on this board might be tempted to rush head-first to the thing, hoping to get bitten and infected with lycanthropy, even though the idea of lycanthropy being a contageous condition is itself an assumption. Many of us assume that it would be this cool and neat thing that grants certain nifty powers.

Yes, I do joke about these sort of things, yet people running head first to be bitten is stupid. I would not want to be a werewolf. It would be to much stress on my life. Those who do become a werewolf would most likely soon regret it.

And yes, what would make it contgious? If this person somehow had a disorder that somehow screwed up their DNA and caused them to be part wolf does not mean it can be passed.

[Terastas]

There'd definitely be some people that make their own assumptions about lycanthropy and are eager to get bitten so they can fulfill some stupid fantasy, or even just out of some bizarre urge to "be special," and if the government moved to oppress werewolves, I'll bet you there would be plenty of people that would get themselves infected in protest. Exactly how big that crowd is, of course, depends on what the werewolves have to say.

If they ask for acceptance, lots of people might line up.
If they ask for the scientific community to help them find a cure, only the true idiots would.

[Wolfhanyou]

*raises paw* I would suspect that I would be one of those people rushing headlong to be bitten. But, yeah. I have a feeling that werewolves would most rather keep themselves a secret. I dunno why, but for osme reasno I was reading this I was being reminded of slavery.

Probabably because I'm thinking that some people would argue that since werewolves turn into animals, they are therefore animals (though rather intelligent animals to be sure...) and should be treated as such.

Discrimination would also become rather large as well if werewolves (if there was such a being) made themselves known. Imagine putting that on your form to vote. Or going to school where everyone else besides you are all human. You'd become an outcast!

[outwarddoodles]

If werewolves were to occur most likely they will be caged and kept in the government. If people found out they would be too scared and there would be too much of confusion and havoc. If the werewolves were loose or got loose, they would be killed. But the key point here is that the government would do all they could to keep it secret.

[Wolfhanyou]

Aye... guess I got off topic without even mentioning the government, eh? My apologizes.

Well, I would guess that if the government found a werewolf somewhere, and took it to be caged or experimented on or whatever, how would they explain the werewolf's absence? I mean, the WW also has a human life, wouldn't their disapperence cause some kind of concern with their family or friends?

[outwarddoodles]

No, this topic is sorta about that.

Theres been many dispeerances. The government may just file that person as disapered and leave it up to the family to send out a search party, or the government might send it out not to be suspicious, and then the family gets life insurance and a funeral.

[Silverclaw]

Oh yeah, the government would definently cover it up. They do for aliens and such; very well I might add. The Aulstralian government denies the fact that their are some wild panthers lose. And thats a normal animal.
Any gov. would try and disprove anything out of the ordinary in their country. Would capture a werewolf if they had the chance and have them disapere in some Area 51 kindof place. That is assuming they didnt create werewolves themselves with any of the crazy tests they do. Hope the Men in Black dont come after me now

The truth is out there!!!

[Terastas]

Aye... guess I got off topic without even mentioning the government, eh? My apologizes.

Well, I would guess that if the government found a werewolf somewhere, and took it to be caged or experimented on or whatever, how would they explain the werewolf's absence? I mean, the WW also has a human life, wouldn't their disapperence cause some kind of concern with their family or friends?

You know those "have you seen me?" things you get in the mail all the time? Sad but true, people disappear all the time in America. The government wouldn't need to excuse his absense -- just make sure nobody's looking when they knock him out and throw him into the back of the van. Presumably, any direct family members (spouse and kids I mean) would also be werewolves, so they would disappear with him too, which would only leave his neighbors and co-workers to wonder where he disappeared off to. Then all that would be left of he and his family would be the missing person report.

[Apokryltaros]

Any gov. would try and disprove anything out of the ordinary in their country. Would capture a werewolf if they had the chance and have them disapere in some Area 51 kindof place. That is assuming they didnt create werewolves themselves with any of the crazy tests they do. Hope the Men in Black dont come after me now

"Area 51 A"
"You are not here"

[Figarou]

Any gov. would try and disprove anything out of the ordinary in their country. Would capture a werewolf if they had the chance and have them disapere in some Area 51 kindof place. That is assuming they didnt create werewolves themselves with any of the crazy tests they do. Hope the Men in Black dont come after me now

"Area 51 A"
"You are not here"

I'm not!!


Oh!! This is Area 52 B!! Doh!!! Must've made a turn at Albaquerky.