The Thought That Constantly Plagues My Mind

[Midnight]

again......why ask why?

why not ask why?

Best. Comeback. Ever.

Well, that I've read for quite a while, anyway...

[Vuldari]

again......why ask why?

why not ask why?

Best. Comeback. Ever.

Well, that I've read for quite a while, anyway...

Always ask questions.

"Assume Nothing...Question Everything" ... that is a philosophy that I stand by.

To not question the truth is to never learn or grow.


However, my previous answers still stand on this matter. "Why" only exists where there is conscious 'Will' or 'Intent'. Because there is no will or intent in 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999...% of the Universe, for most of it, there is no WHY.


The question of "Why was the Universe Created?" or "Why did Existence Begin?" is unanswerable because, (IMHO), an incorrect assumption is being made in both questions.

The Universe was never "CREATED", and it never "BEGAN" ... it always has been. Something can not be "Created" unless it once Wasn't, and something can not "Begin" unless that was previously not taking place.


There is no WHY, because there never was an event to have a "Why" about.

The 'BIG BANG' was not the beginning of the universe. It was merely a Ginormous Cosmic event which all matter and energy in the section of the universe we know about was involved in. Every Star, Planet, Asteroid, Comet, and beam of light that is in our corner of the universe was blasted out of that explosion at some point in the past. Such an event surely happened before that, and will happen again someday, (though maybe not for another Googol, Googol years, in our neck of the woods).

[MoonKit]

I think we're here because a certain unexplainable chain of events happen. Why those events? Who knows...but something had to happen and I guess it just turned out that that something was us.

[geekboy1500]

OK

I think of it like this.

there is no such thing as a "time line", only a time circle.

this means that there is not only no beginning, but also no end.
Which gets around most of that headache.

Before the bigbang there was another universe, similar to this one, though with things in different places etc.
Once the universe gets too big it clapses into a infinately small point

and the big bang happens.

Then again this is only my opinion, but in the end it doesn't really matter WHY your here or HOW your here it just matters that your HERE. You have to do what you can with your life. No regrets

Oh and Vuldari, you and I have very similar ideas. I like the way you think.

[Aki]

Read this

Got it, right?

So. Universe goes kaput. There is NOTHING. But ...eventually, stuff pops back up and universe restarts, right? That's probably how it originally happened. It makes you wonder how many times it might've happened, too. We could be the nth reincarnation of the universe... or the first....

thanx for the link, cool site

Yeah. Exit Mundi is a cool site. The ways life on earth can be exterminated are rather numerous, heheh.

[Kirk Hammett]

I've got an interesting end of the world scenario too. This was written by a guy named Hazel Muir. Sorry if off topic a bit but it's interesting!

Since my University log in is...well a login, I will have to post it here. Or pieces of it. It wont let you view the article unless you log in.

Damn this guy writes a lot about the Universe ending! So many published apocalypse articles! Luckily, I cited it in one of my essays from last year.

For the article, go to my blog: It is the top post, my most recent.

http://kirkhammett.wordpress.com/

I warn you, the site is called Werewolf Rage because I sometimes post when angry. I hate that I can't have the guts to be assertive offline, so online is where I post it. If anything offends anyone, close the page.

[Kzinistzerg]

"how?"

As in, why does evolution work? Evolution is a force of nature that counters entropy. You don't need organic matter to make stuff evolve; evolution happens with anything that can be said to change over time.

[Amoux]

Edit.

Never mind.

[lupine]

Check this out. They reckon its the missing link between humans and chimpanzees, It's dna is 98% Identical to ours!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo

[Aki]

If we did evolve from primates, then why do we still have primates today?

Did we evolve from a type of primates that no longer exist today?

If the dire wolf is extinct, why are there still wolves?

Same thing. There's more than one variant of a species. And we, like the grey, arctic, timber, etc. wolves did, out did our fellows. Only in their case the Dire Wolf died out, while with humans we simply out did the other primates without causing them to die out.

[Midnight]

I'm with Z and Aki... humans and other primates existing today (everything from gorillas down to lemurs) have common ancestors, millions of years ago.

You could also ask: if dogs evolved from wolves, then why do we still have wolves today? Basically... it's not like every single breeding pair of primates decided that this year they were going to start having Homo sapiens children instead of Homo neanderthalensis (or whatever). Evolution is a long-term process - so long-term that it is impossible to observe in "real time", you have to deduce the process based on fossil evidence - and even what seems sudden in evolutionary terms can take tens or hundreds of thousands of years.

[Vuldari]

If we did evolve from primates, then why do we still have primates today?

Did we evolve from a type of primates that no longer exist today?

Umm...

We ARE primates.


And Chimps and Gorillas and stuff...it's not like they STOPPED evolving. They have evolved over time as well, they just evolved into different varieties of chimps. Millions of years ago, the ancestors of modern Chimpanzees and Gorillas and Lemurs and whatever looked different than they look today as well.

Though the mental capacities of the other "PRIMITIVE" creatures that live around us on this planet may not have increased, They Too are highly 'Evolved' species.

It is just a matter of human arrogance that it is common to consider "IQ" as the defining factor of an "Evolved" species (to many), simply because it is the ONE and Only advantage we have over other species, (excluding possibly the dexterity of our delicate hands).


Some species change very little over time because their forms were already extremely effective as they were, and their variations were less successful... like crocodiles, which have changed very little over the past few million years, even though they HAVE evolved into slightly smaller versions of themselves since the age of the dinosaurs.

Evolution works on a "if it aint' broke, don't fix it" principle in many cases. If the variations are not better survivors than the older versions, then the classic creature will continue to exist as-is, and the "evolutions" / 'mutations' will die off instead.


(And yes...the species that we evolved from no longer exists as it was. All of it's offspring changed little by little every generation until they became US.)

[Anook]

Umm...

We ARE primates.

I don't think Amoux said we weren't.

[Figarou]

ok...I have a question. Is there a "final" form? If we are constantly evolving, what's the human race going to be like several 1000 years from now? Hmmmm?


Questions like "why," "when," "how," ETC. can lead to very strange answers. There was a time where humans thought the world was flat. That we would fall off the world if we sailed beyond the horizon. Today...we know that's silly cause its proven the world is round.

Having proof works.

Some say we evolved from primates. Others say we are a species all to our own. (Not a primate)

During the course of "evolution" why is it that humans got "smarter?" Will any other animal "gain intelligence" during its course of evolution? Or is "being smart" only reserved for our kind?


Its something to think about.

[Silverclaw]

what's the human race going to be like several 1000 years from now? Hmmmm?

I dont expect humans to be around long enough to evolve. Will kill ourselves off pretty soon most likely

[Aki]

ok...I have a question. Is there a "final" form? If we are constantly evolving, what's the human race going to be like several 1000 years from now? Hmmmm?


Questions like "why," "when," "how," ETC. can lead to very strange answers. There was a time where humans thought the world was flat. That we would fall off the world if we sailed beyond the horizon. Today...we know that's silly cause its proven the world is round.

Having proof works.

Some say we evolved from primates. Others say we are a species all to our own. (Not a primate)

During the course of "evolution" why is it that humans got "smarter?" Will any other animal "gain intelligence" during its course of evolution? Or is "being smart" only reserved for our kind?


Its something to think about.

Evolution has no final form. The thing is, evolution adjusts organisms to live in a certain environment.

This is why a domestic dog would be screwed in the wild, and wolves don't do so hot in the city. They're not adapted such places.

In 1000 years we might not be around anymore. Might've sent ourselves into a dark-age and gone towards a cave-man like look, or using technology, taken evolution into our own hands. Shaping ourselves in ways that please us - a humanity of varied form. Extra arms? Sure. Fur? Why not. Nanocomputer in your head? Knock yourself out.

Among other possibilities, of course. Humanity's form would vary depending on how our environment changed.

As to why we got smarter, well, we're tool users. Like the chimpanzees are doing now, we discovered new tools and new ways to use them. With better tools we took on bigger tasks. As our tools got even better we got smarter at using them and so on and so forth. I'm sure other animals could become sentient - but tool users have it easier. They think enough that big brains are a desirable trait rather than a energy-waster.

[ravaged_warrior]

what's the human race going to be like several 1000 years from now? Hmmmm?

I dont expect humans to be around long enough to evolve. Will kill ourselves off pretty soon most likely

You know, it's always nice to see such optimism.

[ShadowFang]

what's the human race going to be like several 1000 years from now? Hmmmm?

I dont expect humans to be around long enough to evolve. Will kill ourselves off pretty soon most likely

You know, it's always nice to see such optimism.

It's a pretty pessimistic view, no doubt. But unfortunately, the truth hurts. Human beings are a very aggressive/violent species with no disregard but their own personal gain.

[Figarou]

Evolution has no final form. The thing is, evolution adjusts organisms to live in a certain environment.

Ah....but what if humans learned to control the environment in the future? Ever thought of that?

We could build a dome or have some protective shield over the entire city. It'll be easy to control the environment.

This is why a domestic dog would be screwed in the wild, and wolves don't do so hot in the city. They're not adapted such places.

But the will to survive is pure instinct between the both of them.

In 1000 years we might not be around anymore. Might've sent ourselves into a dark-age and gone towards a cave-man like look, or using technology, taken evolution into our own hands. Shaping ourselves in ways that please us - a humanity of varied form. Extra arms? Sure. Fur? Why not. Nanocomputer in your head? Knock yourself out.

Nature can wipe out the human race faster than humans wiping themselves out. A change in the atmosphere and poof!!!


As for shaping ourselves to please us? hmmmm.....

Everything we do now has bad "side effects." Those extra arms might fall off. Or probably die. Until we find ways where there are no "side effects," look me up. (I'll probably be dead and buried for several 1000 years when that happens.)

Among other possibilities, of course. Humanity's form would vary depending on how our environment changed.

Of course.

It depends on the change of environment. Our dependence of tools has probably weakened our will to evolve. What if the atmosphere did change? The tool we would use are gas masks. (Or that dome I was talking about earlier.) Will our body get used to the change of gases in the air? Nope...not if we keep using those gas masks/living in a dome. The animals will find a way to survive in the new atmosphere without using tools. It MUST evolve.

As to why we got smarter, well, we're tool users. Like the chimpanzees are doing now, we discovered new tools and new ways to use them. With better tools we took on bigger tasks. As our tools got even better we got smarter at using them and so on and so forth. I'm sure other animals could become sentient - but tool users have it easier. They think enough that big brains are a desirable trait rather than a energy-waster.

Animals evolved in ways where the "tools" are built into their bodies. How did the anteater evolve so it can eat the ants more easily? It has evolved a long tongue. How did does the woodpecker get to the insect inside the trees? It developed a strong beak. How does the animal survive the cold? Thick fur or layers of blubber/fat. Polar bears don't give off any heat. It has evolved to retain that heat it generates. Its so effective.... it can withstand sub freezing temperatures. A human will die in a matter of minutes if it was standing naked where the polar bear lives.

Humans learn to shape tools to their own needs. And to protect our bodies...we clothed ourselves. What did we use? Animal skin/fur. Humans won't be able to survive a harsh winter without something to cover themselves.


Tools CAN be useful. Only if its the "right tool." You can't cut paper with a rock.

[Kaebora]

Technology is evolving faster than humanity, therefore technology will soon give us the ability to evolve when we want to.

So, I think we will bring about our own evolution. Technology is becoming more advanced by the day. Eventually we may have a way to surf the internet with brain implants, or even unlocked a way to have conversations telepatically through the use of a radio receiver microchip. Not to mention replacing body parts with robotics, or even specially grown implants. We may even, one day, have a way to give ourselves werewolf features for asthetic appeal (and other animals). Not my thing, but there are a lot of dreamers out there I'm sure.

[Figarou]

Dude, obviously you've never watched "Walking with Cavemen". They practically answer all those questions. As for what is the ultimate evolution (assuming against all odds we never go extinct) Read This

I read that before.

There are those that say the human mind will shrink because of our dependence on machines. We will no longer "think" because the machine will do it for us.

The evolution process takes 100s of years for each living being. Machines can evolve in a matter of a few years. At its current rate.....it can evolve in a matter of minutes.

Who knows...maybe the artificial intelligence will become the "singularity" a lot quicker than us.

[lupine]

Yup! I reckon the Idiocracy Movies onto summat

We just gonna start devolving?

[Vuldari]

Yup! I reckon the Idiocracy Movies onto summat

We just gonna start devolving?

(I wrote a long post about the highs and lows of the Human race as it has evolved, but it turned into a rant, so I deleted it)

There is no such thing as "Devolving". ...though sometimes evolutionary mutations turn out to be negatives instead of positives.

We, as a species, have shielded ourselves with technology from the natural occurances that normally weed out the faults in our gene pool, and as a result, we are headed down a dead-end-road.

One way or another, we need to change that. Making better and better medicines and machines to keep us alive when our bodies and minds break down is NOT the answer. We need to become a stronger species. "Modern Medicine" and "Technology" is temporarily keeping us alive longer...but it will lead to our own destruction eventually if we do not learn to use it more responsibly and think about the Long-Term consequences.



On the "Final Form" comment...evolution is a never ending process. It's not necessarily about becoming better and better...just changing based on the environment. Simply existing in one form for several generations will inevitably change the environment a species lives in, from the impact of its lifestyle. Then when it changes to adapt to the new environment it has created, those changes also change how it effects the environment, it changes again, and then so does the species need to adapt once again to cope...until some dramatic event happens like a tsunami, or an earthquake, or a volcano, or an ice age, or whatever which forces change in different ways, and so the process continues forever, (Until survival becomes impossible)

[Aki]

Evolution has no final form. The thing is, evolution adjusts organisms to live in a certain environment.

Ah....but what if humans learned to control the environment in the future? Ever thought of that?

We could build a dome or have some protective shield over the entire city. It'll be easy to control the environment.

That was part of my "control our own evolution" thought. We'd control the environment and thus by extension, evolution.

This is why a domestic dog would be screwed in the wild, and wolves don't do so hot in the city. They're not adapted such places.

But the will to survive is pure instinct between the both of them.

Will to survive and the ability to survive are entirely different. ;)

As for shaping ourselves to please us? hmmmm.....

Everything we do now has bad "side effects." Those extra arms might fall off. Or probably die. Until we find ways where there are no "side effects," look me up. (I'll probably be dead and buried for several 1000 years when that happens.)

That's why we have testing. Naturally things are tested before given to the public. You really don't need a "gray goo" scenario because someone told a nano-machine to make more of itself and the machine proceeded to make more of itself continuously ...from anything available.

Of course.

It depends on the change of environment. Our dependence of tools has probably weakened our will to evolve. What if the atmosphere did change? The tool we would use are gas masks. (Or that dome I was talking about earlier.) Will our body get used to the change of gases in the air? Nope...not if we keep using those gas masks/living in a dome. The animals will find a way to survive in the new atmosphere without using tools. It MUST evolve.

Or they will die. There are simply somethings that only micro-organisms or tool-users have a chance of surviving. Our tools haven't weakened our evolution, they ARE our evolution.

Animals evolved in ways where the "tools" are built into their bodies. How did the anteater evolve so it can eat the ants more easily? It has evolved a long tongue. How did does the woodpecker get to the insect inside the trees? It developed a strong beak. How does the animal survive the cold? Thick fur or layers of blubber/fat. Polar bears don't give off any heat. It has evolved to retain that heat it generates. Its so effective.... it can withstand sub freezing temperatures. A human will die in a matter of minutes if it was standing naked where the polar bear lives.

Humans learn to shape tools to their own needs. And to protect our bodies...we clothed ourselves. What did we use? Animal skin/fur. Humans won't be able to survive a harsh winter without something to cover themselves.


Tools CAN be useful. Only if its the "right tool." You can't cut paper with a rock.

Tools do have their limits. But the pinnacle of evolution for a tool user far exceeds that of others. Hell, we could eventually build our tools into ourselves. Cybernetic implants, nanobots in your body maintaining and augmenting it, genetically engineer ourselves for maximum survivability, etc.

One way or another, we need to change that. Making better and better medicines and machines to keep us alive when our bodies and minds break down is NOT the answer. We need to become a stronger species. "Modern Medicine" and "Technology" is temporarily keeping us alive longer...but it will lead to our own destruction eventually if we do not learn to use it more responsibly and think about the Long-Term consequences.

But of course. The finest tool in the wrong hands will be at best worthless and at worst lethal - possibly on a grand scale. Like the "Gray goo" scenario.

Single mistake and you got rampant nano-machines pulling apart everything to make more of themselves.

Oops.

[Scott Gardener]

Finally! I'm glad me and Descartes aren't the only ones who worried about this!

First, there's nothing wrong with wondering why one exists. Asking the question isn't going to make God mad and suddenly change his mind, wiping out all of creation. At least, so far, it hasn't.

This thread is generating a lot of traffic, since it popped up three days ago and is already on page 3 by the time I saw it for the first time. One intermediate subplot I have to comment on is the continuing evolution of humanity. We are in fact a work in progress. Just ask anyone suffering from chronic back pain; the human lumbar region still has kinks to work out, hinting that our upright posture isn't quite so perfect as many historic religious experts would lead us to believe. Ever see a dog or cat with sciatica? (That's low back pain radiating down one or both legs.) But, I bet you know a human with it--maybe more than one. I bet you know someone (other than That Guy On House) on Vicodin for it. And the pain of childbirth--it's not God being angry with women over the apple thing; it's because the human head evolved so quickly that the pelvis didn't have a chance to catch up. Metaphorically, Genesis actually makes sense--humans got too smart too quickly, and the end result was some design trade-offs that are potentially pretty serious. So, more open-minded interpretations have plenty of ground for enlightenment. But literally, to say it's women are supposed to hurt with childbirth because a talking snake convinced one to give a guy an apple that God didn't want eaten, it sounds like the ravings of someone with schizophrenia who's gotten off his medicine.

But, I digress, and worse yet, invite flame warring. My point is, we're not the pinnacle of evolution, but merely a snapshot in time--just a rather significant one, since in less than a thousand years we could represent either Earth's next mass extinction or the seeding of Earth life to other worlds, not to mention a species that could, if it gets over itself, take charge of its evolution and direct it with purpose. Right now, as a doctor, my main purpose is to try to fix serious problems, or at least patch them well enough to give people back some semblance of a life. I can't always do that, either. But, with a little bit of genetic engineering, people in my profession a century or two from now could potentially focus less on treating pneumonia or chronic back pain and more on helping people pick and choose their next incarnation's body. Imagine a world in which you've already been a werewolf, got bored with it, and are dabbling with something else. Imagine if instead of a person with a Chakat avatar, the next person to post really was a hermaphroditic cat centaur? Imagine if disease, old age, chronic pain, diabetic medicines, heart attacks, and a multi-billion dollar drug industry were completely obsolete historic novelties, dating back to the days when light bulbs were round and computers with 4-core CPUs were bleeding edge technology? Genetic engineering, people--it's not your enemy. If God didn't want us to do it, he or she wouldn't have based us on DNA and then given us scientists to figure that out.

Anyhow, back to the original question of existence. It's actually the one fact one can ever know with absolute confidence--that at this particular moment, you exist. I wouldn't mind keeping it that way for awhile.