Hunters

[WerewolfKeeper3]

(Okay. I see your point, and a Hunter should only have those extra abilities if the werewolf had anouther advantage (like in the humans stories, for example. Magic, nature manipulation. The Hunters have to have something else to survive.) I was only bringing up that particular issue, because i have tendency to over estimate the werewolf, and think humans (No offense to any here by the way) don't really stand a chance. Although you did bring up a good point, I'm just saying that tools are fine, but even the best tool eventually fails. Shouldn't the Hunters have something to fall back on if that should occur?)

Okay, now that that's done...
(Out of here, if you want your throat where it is.)

[Aki]

(Okay. I see your point, and a Hunter should only have those extra abilities if the werewolf had anouther advantage (like in the humans stories, for example. Magic, nature manipulation. The Hunters have to have something else to survive.) I was only bringing up that particular issue, because i have tendency to over estimate the werewolf, and think humans (No offense to any here by the way) don't really stand a chance. Although you did bring up a good point, I'm just saying that tools are fine, but even the best tool eventually fails. Shouldn't the Hunters have something to fall back on if that should occur?)

Okay, now that that's done...
(Out of here, if you want your throat where it is.)

Nah. It's a counter balance. The hunter's tools can fail, but a werewolf is limited in what tools he can use if any. Gives both weaknesses. The Hunter has his tools but is very likely screwed should those fail unless he's an extraordinarily inventive and clever fellow, and the werewolf's disadvantage is being less able to utilize any tools and lacking much protection beyond agility and knowing how not to get shot.

[Terastas]

The balance could also be that the encounters are usually on the hunter's terms, so they can have the added advantage of being able to spy, plan a strategy and set up traps and ambushes. All the while, a werewolf would be busy with his household and day job.

Werewolves may be faster and stronger, but still not fast enough to dodge bullets or strong enough to survive getting shot in the head multiple times. If the hunter was dumb enough to think he could kill a werewolf with a sword or a ninja kick, it would work in the werewolf's favor, but hoping the hunter's equipment malfunctions is a poor strategy, so more often than not the werewolves would start off on the defensive.

[WerewolfKeeper3]

(Alright,
I Give.
The only idea i was trying to get across, was a hunter Might be better at his task
if he had similiarities to that which he hunts. The tools are nice, but i was never really a fan of guns, so i'm biased on that. Plus, as i've said before, i think the werewolf is more likely to win than the human, even with his toys, so i'm probably not the best to commenting on this thread. I apologize.)

[Zombie]

One thind that doesnt seem to have come up is the advantage in range that a firearm user has. A lot has been said about if the hunter misses he/she is dead meat. I beg to differ. A person who is a fair shot can keep most of their shots on a paper-plate (about 9" dia) out to about 200-250 yards. Even with a miss, it would take upwards of 25 seconds to travel that far on foot, running flat out. That is more than enough time to either get off several follow-up shots, or get into your vehicle and haul a** out of there. People who are good shots can extend their range beyond 800+ yards and talented individuals can exceed well over 1000+ yards. I myself can consistently hit a man-sized target at 600 meters with open sights with a belt-fed machine gun (not exactly a tack-driver by anyones opinion. If you think that that is an easy task, youve probably never used the M-240B) and can engage and kill targets out to 900+ meters with proper equipment (the .50cal Barrett M-82 as its known in the civvie world). and with my personal firearms on my own time, I can hit whatever Im hunting out to 300 yards with boring consistancy. Im not tooting my own horn here though. I consider myself an average marksman. There are certainly people wh shoot a whole lot better than myself, and there always will be (as long as the anit-gunners and lib dems dont get their way). So the firearms user has a big advantage in my opinion.
Beware the man who only owns one rifle, for he probably shoots it well.

-Zombie

[WerewolfKeeper3]

(I can't, and don't, speak for others, but about the missing a shot thing...
I meant that if they do, the werewolf has the knowledge of where they are, and more than likely how far away they are.
If that's the case, than one shot might be your only shot, as in the targets is going to haul a** long before you do.
If that individual warns others that's when the shooter will have a problem.

And, about the trap setting stuff...
By now, the werewolf in question will most likely have memorized the layout of the town, and probably his or her house, in the event a transformation begins somewhere they don't want it to.
They can probably smell whoevers after them long before they get close enough to spy on them.
Where there is one werewolf, there is undoubtedly likely to be more.

I'm stubborn as a ram when it comes to this: i just can't wrap my mind around humans being more powerful than werewolves. It just seems that human already have way to much in their favor already, and that the werewolves should as least have some chance to win. It seems to me, and more than likely i am wrong about this so bare with me, that werewolves are sitting ducks, with little or no chance of winning a battle. I don't think you mean they are just big targets, but I've probably misconstrude it as such. If you want me off this thread, just tell me. More than likely, i've ticked off someone else.) -WS

[Aki]

(I can't, and don't, speak for others, but about the missing a shot thing...
I meant that if they do, the werewolf has the knowledge of where they are, and more than likely how far away they are.
If that's the case, than one shot might be your only shot, as in the targets is going to haul a** long before you do.
If that individual warns others that's when the shooter will have a problem.

And, about the trap setting stuff...
By now, the werewolf in question will most likely have memorized the layout of the town, and probably his or her house, in the event a transformation begins somewhere they don't want it to.
They can probably smell whoevers after them long before they get close enough to spy on them.
Where there is one werewolf, there is undoubtedly likely to be more.

I'm stubborn as a ram when it comes to this: i just can't wrap my mind around humans being more powerful than werewolves. It just seems that human already have way to much in their favor already, and that the werewolves should as least have some chance to win. It seems to me, and more than likely i am wrong about this so bare with me, that werewolves are sitting ducks, with little or no chance of winning a battle. I don't think you mean they are just big targets, but I've probably misconstrude it as such. If you want me off this thread, just tell me. More than likely, i've ticked off someone else.) -WS

You ain't ticked me. A good debate is always fun.

I don't see why it's so hard to grasp. Guile, used correctly, is infinitely superior to an incredible amount of speed or strength, or fancy tools. This is a two-way street, as it means a smart werewolf can - if he's smart enough - outwit a hunter and effectively neutralize anything he might have. Either by removing it from him, damaging it, disabling him somehow, or outright killing him.

Likewise, a hunter can lure a werewolf into a trap. Now, the thing about traps is, they don't require some guy with a shottie running with the 'wolf on his tracks, hoping to trick it into fall into a pit of pungi sticks or something equally silly. It could be something as devious as, say, a female hunter seducing a werewolf, leading him off somewhere secluding, then slitting his throat or blowing his brains out with a silenced pistol.

Following the same two-way street, of course. A werewolf could do the same to a hunter. But it'd be harder as it'd require the werewolf knowing who the hunter is and the hunter not knowing who they are.

Ignoring traps and such, and going with a straight up fight, it's all about engaging the enemy on no terms other than those favorable to you. If you're a werewolf, that means getting in close and keeping a hunter from whipping out anything that looks remotely like a firearm. A knife is also something you'd want to keep him from using but it's less of an issue because it's less likely to kill you as easily as a chestfull of buckshot at point-blank. If you're a hunter, you're terms means lots of range and the appropriate weapon and ammunition for the job. And, if possible, some sort of protective gear. Kevlar vest, shark-suit, whatever.

Both parties strongest weapon and best defense is their ability to think. And either will win so long as they use it well. A kevlar vest won't protect your throat from being torn out, and super strength and claws won't prevent a shotgun blast to the face from blowing your head off.

[Terastas]

The only idea i was trying to get across, was a hunter Might be better at his task
if he had similiarities to that which he hunts. The tools are nice, but i was never really a fan of guns, so i'm biased on that. Plus, as i've said before, i think the werewolf is more likely to win than the human, even with his toys, so i'm probably not the best to commenting on this thread. I apologize.)

The problem is that you would need to explain how the hunter acquired his similarities. The increased speed, strength and senses are the perks of the gestalt form, but unless the hunter is also a werewolf, he wouldn't have them. If you give a hunter superhuman abilities, you have to explain how he acquired them.

WerewolfKeeper3:

You're partially right about the first shot. The first shot is the only shot that has the element of surprise. After the first shot, he's faced with a moving target, someone that can run, bob and weave, duck and cover, etc.

As for traps, try not to think of them as just the typical stuff you'd see in a hunting brochure or a Home Alone movie. A werewolf trap could be anything from a snare to a land mine. The former might not work and the latter might be overkill, but there's a lot that you could categorize in between them.

As for humans being more powerful, you might be thinking of it the wrong way. A werewolf is more powerful physically, but humans are more powerful in the sense that they rule the world. Like I said earlier, a werewolf would have a huge advantage in hand to hand combat, but any humans that decide to hunt werewolves have the luxury of being able to set the terms of the encounter in their favor.

[JoshuaMadoc]

To also add:

In a movie, someone with very fine expertise of combat would beat hundreds of people half-dead without even getting a scratch on their clothing.

But in reality, there is a very likely chance you'll get cuts anywhere and everywhere, and even the best of the best could even lose a battle due to varying circumstances.

Because of this, a top werewolf against a top human fighter is still a 50-50 chance type of fight, unless a set of circumstances give a pending amount of advantage to either side, because, really, either combatant can be caught off-guard, lose their ryhtm, and subsequently lose.

[WerewolfKeeper3]

Alright,
Sorry for WS going Insulted wolf on you.
Proably should keep him on a shorter leash. ((Wait till i turn my back then )
Very mature WS. (I try. Tell 'em i'm sorry for that. It kinda seemed they brought werewolves down to the level of humans. Now i see they weren't, and they actually were thinking about your ideas, not just dicreditedin them. Sorry for the misunderstanding.)
The way my Hunters got those abilities was through magic, (Evil in some cases, others more powerful magic that no one could touch.) but those abilities could be gained through a variety of ways, including a serum that gave the hunters those powers. I do appreciate you giving anouther chance on this by the way.

[Dreamer]

What about the personalities of the hunter. MY main hunter in my universe is very very screwed up. I'll reprint his bio here for those that haven't seen it:
Abel Lucian
Appearance: Wild read hair and a neatly trimmed beard. Wears a nice suit when not hunting werewolves, but when he is he wears similar garb as the rest of his organization (Which I haven't named yet) except for a bit more fancy to indicate his higher position. The garb of his organization is slick and modern, but very evocative of the KKK.
Bio: his life is a very sad story. His best friend from a young age, although unbeknownst to him, was a born werewolf. He saw hids friends first transformation and was shocked and frightened. His father, who at the time was the leader of the hunter's organization, came and chased the frightened and scared werewolf down. When he was cornered, Abel's father gave him a gun and told him to shoot him. HE did. This began his career as a hunter, as well as his psychological issues. He is obviously a foe of Lou, seeing as he hates all werewolves, and therefore is an enemy of Cell. Abel has a brother (Named Kane) whom witnessed him doing this action and was horrified, and so decided to join the werewolves and become one himself. Kane, unbeknownst to Abel, is a member of the pack that Louis belongs to.
Personality: Appears calm and cool on the surface, but underneath is an emotional wreck. His hatred of werewolves is self-justification for what he did that night.
Powers: A large supply of weapons and soldiers at his disposal.

Effed up Fun fact: Abel also has a large collection of werewolf pelts displayed in his house.

[WerewolfKeeper3]

Now that we're comparing hunters...
In my stories my Hunters do alot of really vile things. (Which include killing small children in order to kill werewolves and Vampires with the Taint.) The Taint, as he's just mentioned, basically turns silver, which in my stories can't harm a werewolf otherwise, into a corosive poison. The old ways described in legends for how to kill such creatures don't normally work against my characters, unless they are "tainted". The one thing i hated about all the other stories was that the villain had someone who could relate to him or her. I wanted my story to be different, with only the rest of humaniy and a few select Hunters being good. I wanted my Hunters to be so dispicable, you'd acctually enjoy seeing them killed. (And i do very much.) Zip it wolf breath. (Fine, clawless one.)
Oh.

[Terastas]

What about the personalities of the hunter. MY main hunter in my universe is very very screwed up.

It would vary from hunter to hunter, but for someone to dedicate their entire life to hunting werewolves, they would either need to have A) developed some psychological issues due to a past experience with werewolves, or B) had their mind warped into conforming to the beliefs of someone else with an agenda against werewolves.

Somebody that just hunted werewolves on a whim, or was out to prove the existence of werewolves, I think would only "hunt" werewolves with a video camera. So yeah, be it past experience with werewolves or religious propaganda, I think most werewolf hunters would qualify as being messed up.

One of the hunters in my story is pretty messed up and does some horrible things too, and even though he's the first one that gets knocked off, he leaves the others emotionally scarred to the point that they question and eventually turn against each other.

Interesting thing about insanity is that it's contagious. Surround yourself with madmen, or put your trust in one, and you'll inevitably begin to wonder if you're the one that's insane.

[Aki]

What about the personalities of the hunter. MY main hunter in my universe is very very screwed up.

It would vary from hunter to hunter, but for someone to dedicate their entire life to hunting werewolves, they would either need to have A) developed some psychological issues due to a past experience with werewolves, or B) had their mind warped into conforming to the beliefs of someone else with an agenda against werewolves.

Or C) Is being paid good money to put them down, or maybe D) Is re-enacting The Most Dangerous Game with Werewolves as the focus rather than humans. Hunter who wants really good prey, the kind that will kill him if he f*** up even a little.

[Terastas]

Or C) Is being paid good money to put them down, or maybe D) Is re-enacting The Most Dangerous Game with Werewolves as the focus rather than humans. Hunter who wants really good prey, the kind that will kill him if he {censored} up even a little.

Good point, but someone that hunts werewolves for money and/or sport, I don't think would be at all right in the head either. They'd be messed up in different ways, but I think they'd all have one problem or another.

[Aki]

Or C) Is being paid good money to put them down, or maybe D) Is re-enacting The Most Dangerous Game with Werewolves as the focus rather than humans. Hunter who wants really good prey, the kind that will kill him if he {censored} up even a little.

Good point, but someone that hunts werewolves for money and/or sport, I don't think would be at all right in the head either. They'd be messed up in different ways, but I think they'd all have one problem or another.

Heh, I suppose so.

[Dreamer]

I just wanted to mention that if the hunters were religious they would probably reject usinjg magic as work of the devil. And they would probably hunt other supernatural beings, such as vampires (both the evil and good ones).

Also, off topic, but why has nobody listened to my requests to at least respond or give feedback to my newest posts in my "Need help creating a universe..." thread?!

[Shadow_in_the_Moonlight]

might there also be a colony of them? sort of a gypsie group of professianals, who have been tracking and killing our beautiful friends for generations? whose children are raised with one future? whose only option is to become were hunters for the sake of tradition and family? maybe they started out as a small group brought together by a common love of hatred?

[WerewolfKeeper3]

I like the last one, cause its damn close to the way my hunters grew up. The hunters were once allies with werewolves and vampires, but only after a horrific event shatered their trust, (not to mention the "he did this" "no you did that" "you both did the other" game.) that they began to hunt them.
Fun fact: two of my hunters turn against their own kind, because one is in love with Vampire, and the other is engaded to a werewolf. Kind puts your perspective into turmoil, don't it?
And Dreamer, could the reason no one responded to your thread be the werewolf posting?

[Rhuen]

I have always been partial to the whole secret group with-in a larger orginization that doesn't have the same views as the whole so acts as a secret zeolot group who have taken it upon themselves to work outside the system, even in the ignorance of the main system.

Like a psycho order of priests with in the Vatican but outside the knowledge of the Pope and most of the Cardinals and Bishops, or a Control Agency with-in the military that is outside the box for most seen politicians.

Your basic we think we are the ones really in charge even though we really arn't super secret full of themselves groups.

I am partial that is....in using them as fodder.

[Volkodlak]

Well in my view Hunters do exist, but they are not some racist pricks, but they are kinda there too take out rogue werewolf that thretens humans so werewolfs at least good ones are not in any danger from them and most hunter groups have some sort of deal or allience with local pack.They are members of secret organisation most times hiden behind official hunting club so nobody ask too much questions.

But there is allways someone be it werewolf or hunter that does not follow the rules and not too mention unstable idiot with gun trying too hunt werewolfs, but this guys do not last long.

[Uniform Two Six]

I'm probably repeating something in the previous seven pages, but I'd advance a hybrid of that point:

It wouldn't take an actual set of racists to have (shall we say) biased hunters. Sorry, but the last month here in the States has sort of crystallized this particular issue. The actual threat posed to Americans by Mexican immigrants and Muslim refugees is microscopic. But the backlash against such "threats" is completely outsized (including an apparent willingness to spend $25,000,000,000 on a 1,500 mile border wall).

If people get that worked up over nothing in the real world, what happens if otherwise normal people find out about the existence of werewolves (who can "masquerade" as "normal people")? It wouldn't even matter if the werewolves in question were like the ones from Freeborn, and entirely friendly and benign. The less the hunters in question actually know about werewolves, the more dangerous they (the werewolves) seem.

[Volkodlak]

Uniform Two Six hunters knowlage would not help at all at your situation, becouse people would panicking and during this period you would mot be able too reason with them plus they may think hunters are lying,etc

[Uniform Two Six]

Well, I would think that (assuming that the werewolves in question were the benign sort) werewolves faced with humans who had learned of their existence would try to de-escalate things. The best way to do that would be to educate the hunters about what werewolves really were -- precisely to allay fear and prevent panic. The scariest thing is the unknown. In that sense, the more the hunters know the more they will realize that they have far less to fear from the werewolves than one might assume at first sight. Now, that's also presuming that the hunters in question aren't redneck, gun-nut a****les to begin with who are hunting werewolves because they think a werewolf pelt would make a good rug or something...

[Kveldulf]

There's also the point that, even if hunters have no supernatural abilities of their own, they are basically going to be working like mundane assassins. They have to determine that someone is a werewolf in order to target them...unless they're up in a blind in a wood where they know that a pack runs, they can't just wander around until they find a track or something in hopes of bagging a random werewolf.
And then, hunters are probably not idiots, or they wouldn't survive long (presumably the ones who are idiots wind up as Purina Wolf Chow pretty quickly). They know that the vast majority of werewolves also lead normal lives, go to their jobs at regular times, and all that good stuff. Are they going to confront a fully-shifted wolf, or a pack of wolves who can be expected to take extreme exception to the murder of one of their own when they can just walk up to a door, knock, say, "Hello, Avon calling!" and let loose with that handgun hidden behind their clipboard when the lycanthropic homeowner answers in ordinary human shape (of course, hopefully one would be able to smell the gun or at least the evil intent...but who expects to be assassinated out of the blue, unless hunters are a major known threat)? Or rent a cheap upper-storey apartment, nail their victim with a rifle round from a nice safe distance, and boogey out of town leaving a mysterious, apparently motiveless killing behind them (given that the local police had no idea that the town librarian, whom everyone liked, was a werewolf in the first place)? Or just set a car bomb while the victim is at work? You betcha that's what they're going to do. They know they're at a one-on-one disadvantage if the werewolf has any chance to use their superior physical abilities; they're not going to take any sort of risk that would give the victim a chance to turn the tables. And they would have to plan carefully, make one hit in an area and move, because human police also tend to get even more excited over multiple mysterious killings than over single ones.
Then again, if hunters are any sort of institutionalized threat (as opposed to the lone, er, human whose dad got killed by a rogue werewolf or something and is on a solitary crusade), we can take it that werewolf society would have evolved to deal with this - that, for instance, packs would tend to live in the kind of place where strangers get Noticed By Everyone from the first time they buy a cup of coffee, and have members specifically dedicated to keeping a watch out for anyone suspicious. Though the poor bugger coming in from out of town to hunt deer with his fourth cousin once removed might have some unnerving experiences in the woods until the pack figured out that he really was just a guy looking to fill his deer tag...