Telepathy

WerewolfKeeper3 · Post by **WerewolfKeeper3** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:19 pm

In a story i've read, the werewolves could communicate with each other by way of telepathic communication.
(For those who are not able to understand his nerdy outburst...)
like you.

(He means talking with each other mentally.)
i used it as a part of my werewolves.
My question is, do think it's a good idea, for them to be able to such a thing?

chubhound · Post by **chubhound** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:48 pm

Hmmmm..... Well, personally, I don't see why not. Story-wise, I guess it would depend on whether you're going for more of a "magic" type werewolf, or a "science" type (virus or whatnot). Personally, I prefer a magic origin for werewolves precisely because it allows for stuff like telepathy a bit easier than a disease or virus does (I just can't see a case of the sniffles suddenly allowing for telepathic communication). Anyway, sorry for rambling....to get back to the point, if you want werewolves in your story to be able to be telepathic with each other, then by all means do so. I think it's cool.

RedEye · Post by **RedEye** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:09 pm

Yeah, it's been done....

Are you referring to complete sentences or a few words and an emotional overlay? Both have been used. The latter; empathic communication, is more like what a Wolf would use, such as:
Deer, here{Hunger and feeding}. Human, kill-thing{Fear, anger, danger}

This is an approximation of what a Wolf would send out ( assuming they could). An emotion can convey a great deal of information.

Either way; it's a somewhat used device, and needs to be sparingly employed to avoid a hokeyness factor. It works{concern, overuse}.

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:57 am

I don't really like it used in conjuction with werewolves. Seems kinda cheesy, really. Neither wolves nor ordinary humans have it, so why would the combination of both have it?

It'd make sense if a werewolf bit a psychic or something and they became a werewolf, but the ordinary werewolf? Nah.

Rhuen · Post by **Rhuen** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:16 am

I am against it, simply because of how much its used in animal kid movies to make the animals talk to each other with out having to move their mouths to do it.

makes it cheesy in this regard.

a psychic turned werewolf perhaps, but that kinda brings us into a werewolf version of Marvel Zombies (now Marvel werewolves would have been more interesting to me than zombies).

Fullmoonstar · Post by **Fullmoonstar** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:57 am

Aki wrote:I don't really like it used in conjuction with werewolves. Seems kinda cheesy, really. Neither wolves nor ordinary humans have it, so why would the combination of both have it?

It'd make sense if a werewolf bit a psychic or something and they became a werewolf, but the ordinary werewolf? Nah.

Rhuen wrote:I am against it, simply because of how much its used in animal kid movies to make the animals talk to each other with out having to move their mouths to do it.

makes it cheesy in this regard.

a psychic turned werewolf perhaps, but that kinda brings us into a werewolf version of Marvel Zombies (now Marvel werewolves would have been more interesting to me than zombies).

I totally agree with you two

WerewolfKeeper3 · Post by **WerewolfKeeper3** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:12 pm

Two things:
One: These are werwolves who use magic. Its a spell. (Also, the main characters his story deals with are psychic anyway.)
and Two: I don't just mean "werewolf use mind istead of talking". They use it in conjunction with their other voacl abilities. (They talk and use telepathy, in other words.)
And i had a feeling its been overdone. However, i'm one of those "wishes he were a psychic" freaks, who love the idea of being able to see into someones thoughts, move things with ones mind etc.
My werewolve use elemental powers, like fire, water, etc. and its the similar connection with the earth that gives them the ability to use this power in the first place.
Thank you for views, however. (Seeing as he doens't really use it outside of maybe the first.... six chapters anyway. Then its just emotional connections and the like.)
Please continue with your comments. I'd like to hear more of what you all have to say.

Set · Post by **Set** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:20 pm

So they're basically elemental mages that can also grow a little fur?

chubhound · Post by **chubhound** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:17 pm

Well, I think they sound pretty cool! Personally, I love seeing werewolves shown as something different than the "usual" stuff.

Rhuen · Post by **Rhuen** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:08 pm

a werewolf that can do anything other than just turn into a wolf or wolf hybrid creature while still in the definition of "werewolf" would by most no longer be considered a werewolf it has other powers,

Just as the sorcerer from Earth Sea, his animal transformation is a bird but he's not a were-bird as he has other magical powers. Which is the danger of magic being part of werewolves.
Even back when they were viewed as real, when magic was thought as part of the equation they went from being viewed as monsters like vampires and dragons to specialized sorcerers, and witches.

chubhound · Post by **chubhound** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:47 pm

Rhuen wrote:a werewolf that can do anything other than just turn into a wolf or wolf hybrid creature while still in the definition of "werewolf" would by most no longer be considered a werewolf it has other powers,

ANYthing other than just turn into a wolf or wolf hybrid? Isn't that kind of limiting? So......what about reading? Or cooking? Or driving a car? Sorry, I just couldn't resist the temptation to be a total goofball there. But back to the point here, I don't necessarily agree that just because a werewolf in a story can do somethign above & beyond simply transforming into a wolf (or wolf-hybrid), that all of a sudden it's no longer a werewolf. Isn't that kind of like saying Michael Jordan isn't really a basketball player if he can do something other than dunk from the free-throw line?

Terastas · Post by **Terastas** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:15 pm

Aki wrote:I don't really like it used in conjuction with werewolves. Seems kinda cheesy, really. Neither wolves nor ordinary humans have it, so why would the combination of both have it?

It'd make sense if a werewolf bit a psychic or something and they became a werewolf, but the ordinary werewolf? Nah.

*nods* To me, adding telepathy just seems really lazy. A big part of being a werewolf should be dealing with the changes, from the major concerns to little grievances here and there.

chubhound · Post by **chubhound** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:43 pm

I don't know....I guess it depends on exactly what kind of telepathy we're talking about here. If it's some over the top "Professor X" type of telepathy, where you can read & control everyone's mind, then yeah, I can agree that it probably doesn't fit. But if it's some subtle "only with other werewolves" type of telepathy, then I really don't see a problem. Really though, I guess it depends on what the writer wants, and what best serves the story he/she is trying to tell. I'd really love to see a really good action type story with werewolves, as opposed to strictly sticking with horror (wondering what a James Bond type spy could pull off in a story as a werewolf....could be cool). I'm not saying I think people should start writing stories that are the lycanthropic equivalent of a Dragon Ball Z episode, but saying "this or that doesn't really 'belong' or 'fit' in a werewolf story" seems, I dunno...kinda off. Then we'll have the ones saying that if they can transform anytime they choose aren't really werewolves, that they're just shapeshifters that happen to only be able to turn into wolves. Or if they keep their intellect when they shift that they're not really werewolves. And then.....the wars will begin. The sky will burn!! Streets will flow with rivers of blood!! NAZIS WILL RIDE ON DINOSAURS!!! Oh...sorry, I kinda got carried away there. Time to cut down on the caffeine.

cumulusprotagonist · Post by **cumulusprotagonist** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:16 am

Take it easy and ride the magic bus.

JoshuaMadoc · Post by **JoshuaMadoc** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:34 am

I'd take werewolf telepathy, provided that it doesn't look like a cheap Prof X add-on. Make it all f*** up, like as if, for example, the person whom the telepathist is talking to is standing in a room full of phones or phoneboxes or... phonebooks, or like as if the person is in a glass-floored room, with the telepathist standing on the other person's feet, mirroring every movement.

That's how good telepathy should be.

Rhuen · Post by **Rhuen** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:32 pm

chubhound wrote:
Rhuen wrote:a werewolf that can do anything other than just turn into a wolf or wolf hybrid creature while still in the definition of "werewolf" would by most no longer be considered a werewolf it has other powers,
ANYthing other than just turn into a wolf or wolf hybrid? Isn't that kind of limiting? So......what about reading? Or cooking? Or driving a car? Sorry, I just couldn't resist the temptation to be a total goofball there. But back to the point here, I don't necessarily agree that just because a werewolf in a story can do somethign above & beyond simply transforming into a wolf (or wolf-hybrid), that all of a sudden it's no longer a werewolf. Isn't that kind of like saying Michael Jordan isn't really a basketball player if he can do something other than dunk from the free-throw line?

I almost called you a douche from the first line till I read you were acting like a goof. (remember no tones on text).

I said It does that for most people. It takes away from the whole transformation being their one special trait which in my mind at least is what makes them a werewolf. add other abilities like telepathy and magic and its, oh but wait I have other powers.
It would be like a vampire saying, oh but I can also summon fire...which some have like in Vampire Trinity and it threw me off...wait what? type of situation. A little out of what is expected can go along ways and take away from their "horror" power being special and identifying them.

chubhound · Post by **chubhound** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 10:37 pm

Yeah....you gotta love the lack of vocal tones in a typed message. Well, if it starts to get out of hand with tons and tons of werewolf stories or movies with them all having the combined powers of the Fantastic Four....then yeah, it definately detracts from the "horror" aspect. But again, I'd like to see a werewolf story that isn't ALL about horror, keeping some, but not having that be the "be-all, end-all" of the story...I mean c'mon, how much butt could a James Bond or Sam Fisher type kick in a story as a werewolf? Keep some appropriate horror moments, but give it something new. The thing that I'm having some concerns about is the statement that once a werewolf does anything other than turn into a wolf, then it's no longer a werewolf. I tend to look at the word....term....whatever you wanna call it, the word "werewolf", like the word "car". If you take a totally basic, "bare-bones" car, and give it the "Pimp My Ride" treatment, give it hands-free mobile phone, GPS navigation, air-conditioned seats, and a back seat DVD system, it's still a car even with all those spiffy extras. Same with werewolves (at least in my eyes). A Garou or an Uratha from White-Wolf isn't less of a werewolf just because it can summon fog or control the winds. I guess the big point I'm trying to make is this, we seem to see alot of "Show us something new. Give us a different look at werewolves other than the 'blood drooling man eaters'" here on the forums. So if that's what we're wanting to see, why say "this isn't really a werewolf" if someone comes up with a take on them that allows for more than just "turning into a wolf or a wolf-hybrid"? We don't want to wind up cramping the creativity of a writer who'll wind up not writing what they really WANT out of fear that their ideas will get ridiculed. "Werewolves" are broad enough to allow for a near-infinite amount of interpretations (the "Underworld" Lycans, Lon Chaney's "Wolf-Man", the Garou/Uratha, Kelley Armstrong's werewolves [Clay, Elena, etc...], AWIL, and so on). The "scary monster that stalks the night" in horror movies/stories has been there for a looong time. It's not gonna go anywhere. So why not just enjoy some new interpretations. However....as soon as I see Goku or Gohan sprouting fur and yelling "Hyper Wolf Lunar BLAAAAAAAAAAAST!!!!" while tossing around Spirit Bombs and Kamehameha Waves, THEN I'll agree that things've gone too far.

Midnight · Post by **Midnight** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:26 am

chubhound wrote:"Werewolves" are broad enough to allow for a near-infinite amount of interpretations (the "Underworld" Lycans, Lon Chaney's "Wolf-Man", the Garou/Uratha, Kelley Armstrong's werewolves [Clay, Elena, etc...], AWIL, and so on). The "scary monster that stalks the night" in horror movies/stories has been there for a looong time. It's not gonna go anywhere. So why not just enjoy some new interpretations.

Well said.

Rhuen · Post by **Rhuen** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:09 am

I do enjoy new interpriations, hell I have several of my own, monstrous beasts with super-human speed and strength far beyond what a wolf could ever do, even some that can use basic magic and other abilities.

When I said "horror" power I didn't mean genre limitations (coming from me that would be hypocricy as all mine are in a fantasy or sci-fi fantasy setting).
Guess what I mean to say is a little extra here and there isn't bad as far as actual ability goes and variants in weaknesses, strengths, intellegence, ect....is always good. But not like what was said werewolf fantastic four. However the danger many werewolf ideas have is becoming a lycanthrope version of the X-men, the only common ground would be turning into wolves but otherwise a slew of other powers from individual to individual. something they do too often with vampires, but vampires being more ambigious with their specific powers can get away with it more than werewolves.

a little telepathy between werewolves thats more akin to empathy I have no problem with.
But start having them shoot electricity, fly, summon chi powers, or use high end magic and the werewolf aspect becomes secondary, and if your point was to focus on them being werewolves then this kills the story.
Although I could see these in a world where these things are common enough that a werewolf having them wouldn't be too far off. But in those stories they go beyond what most see as werewolves, such as having wolf headed tenticles (Shadow Skill) or a wolf mouth on their torso (Vampire Hunter D: Blood Lust). (granted the second one there was a mutant not a werewolf).

psiguy · Post by **psiguy** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:45 am

I'm in favor of the possibility of psychic werewolves. No need for an explanation from me.

Kzinistzerg · Post by **Kzinistzerg** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:32 pm

No for an assumed attribute that's just there once you become one. But as part of an entirely different thing that just happens to coincide? sure.

chubhound · Post by **chubhound** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 5:56 pm

Rhuen wrote:I do enjoy new interpriations, hell I have several of my own, monstrous beasts with super-human speed and strength far beyond what a wolf could ever do, even some that can use basic magic and other abilities.

When I said "horror" power I didn't mean genre limitations (coming from me that would be hypocricy as all mine are in a fantasy or sci-fi fantasy setting).
Guess what I mean to say is a little extra here and there isn't bad as far as actual ability goes and variants in weaknesses, strengths, intellegence, ect....is always good. But not like what was said werewolf fantastic four. However the danger many werewolf ideas have is becoming a lycanthrope version of the X-men, the only common ground would be turning into wolves but otherwise a slew of other powers from individual to individual. something they do too often with vampires, but vampires being more ambigious with their specific powers can get away with it more than werewolves.

a little telepathy between werewolves thats more akin to empathy I have no problem with.
But start having them shoot electricity, fly, summon chi powers, or use high end magic and the werewolf aspect becomes secondary, and if your point was to focus on them being werewolves then this kills the story.
Although I could see these in a world where these things are common enough that a werewolf having them wouldn't be too far off. But in those stories they go beyond what most see as werewolves, such as having wolf headed tenticles (Shadow Skill) or a wolf mouth on their torso (Vampire Hunter D: Blood Lust). (granted the second one there was a mutant not a werewolf).

Okie dokie....I guess we're closer to being on the same page than I originally thought. Sorry for the misunderstanding. And yeah, anime...cool as it can be, can very easily head into the territory of being "over the top"...and that's putting it mildly.

Rhuen · Post by **Rhuen** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 11:27 am

chubhound wrote:
Okie dokie....I guess we're closer to being on the same page than I originally thought. Sorry for the misunderstanding. And yeah, anime...cool as it can be, can very easily head into the territory of being "over the top"...and that's putting it mildly.

They kinda have to when they want to be taken serious in an anime world.
give a werewolf its "normal" abilities and it becomes cannon fodder.
case in point: Slayers: Book of Spells "AKA Slayers Special"
In the third episode on it titled Mirror,Mirror a sorcerer hires a whole pack of werewolves to help him. They aren't bad looking for a werewolf design, and can jump thirty feet in the air, super human strength, the only down side is their scooby-Doo voices. But all this "normal" werewolf power is nothing compared to Lina Inverse and Naga the serpent who dispatch them as easily as any other band of high-way men.

Aki · Post by **Aki** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:50 pm

chubhound wrote:[snip]

Well, in the case of Garou/Uratha, I find acceptable because it's reasoned out.

It's like, why can a Glasswalker Garou dive through an internet cord, pop out your computer and eat your face? Because they're werewolves? No 'cause Glasswalkers are down with the machine-spirits, yo.

So I guess I'd be cool with werewolf telepathy if it wasn't just thrown in for no good reason. And "because they're werewolves" isn't a good reason.

chubhound · Post by **chubhound** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 7:08 pm

Aki wrote:Well, in the case of Garou/Uratha, I find acceptable because it's reasoned out.

It's like, why can a Glasswalker Garou dive through an internet cord, pop out your computer and eat your face? Because they're werewolves? No 'cause Glasswalkers are down with the machine-spirits, yo.

So I guess I'd be cool with werewolf telepathy if it wasn't just thrown in for no good reason. And "because they're werewolves" isn't a good reason.

Yuppers....I guess (to me anyway) it comes down to where the emphasis is on whatever various abilities there are. Person (A) says, "I have telepahic abilties, and I can commune with spirits, and control the elements to a minor degree. Oh yeah....and I can turn into a wolf, I forgot to say I'm a werewolf too." And Person (B) says, "I'm a werewolf, but if I need it, I can also use telepathy, or talk to spirits, or manipulate the elements if it's needed." It's basically the same thing, but putting emphasis on a different aspect can totally change how it's seen. So, like you said earlier, the Garou/Uratha are presented first & foremost as Werewolves. Heck, the name of the game line is "Werewolf", so that's where the emphasis is. The other stuff, the spirit gifts, rites & magic weapons and so on are just intended as extras that aren't supposed to detract from the main theme of being a werewolf.