ETs and us

[Rhuen]

I have a hard time taking anything "abductees" say seriously.

I want you to think about this for a minute. Alien race, advanced technology. And they have to resort to kidnapping people and shoving a probe up their butts? Come on. You'd think if they can even get here in the first place they'd have a more efficient way of studying us than that. That's just pathetic.

Actually an anal probe is efficient, especially if the subject's well being and return is expected.

with an anal probe you can detect.
Body temperature,
blood pressure,
stool samples (which can show basic health information and diet)
Blood samples from thin scrampings of the wall.
Prostate/reproductive health.
and other tests depending on what type of instrument they installed in the probe.

[Lukas]

Hey I based my theories off from accounts of UFOs, and alien abductions, as well from theories from well known scientists.

And i really don't like being called stupid, because i do a lot of research, and i think very carefully about my ideas. You can go to hell because I'm a science fiction writer dill hole!

Besides, these are theories, nothing more, nothing less. So what if i believe that ETs are out or not. You shouldn't insult me because YOU think my ideas are "unreasonable". You are acting like that weird baptist church that is always protesting funerals of gay soldiers. You are attacking me because of my ideas, and beliefs.

If you don't like my hypothesizes, you could have put down what you thought, instead attacking me!

we ant attack you for your ideas, just some of us think your ideas don't make sense and point out our opinions, just because we don't agree with your opinion dosn't mean you can go all crazy on us!

[Figarou]

All this stuff is just the product of an over-active human imagination fed by others bringing up the same crap. The human brain is hard-wired to find patterns. So when we see strange stuff, we relate it to some pattern we've seen before.

Like the Mars "face", which turned out to only look like a face because of the way shadows played across a martian mountain range.

Actually....its a "noise pattern" from radio interference.

http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/fcs_face_o ... index.html

Also...the equipment used back in 1976 is not as sophisticated as today. Its a low resolution shot with "noise."


If it was a video....we would've never seen the face pattern at all.

[Anubis]

Hey I based my theories off from accounts of UFOs, and alien abductions, as well from theories from well known scientists.

And i really don't like being called stupid, because i do a lot of research, and i think very carefully about my ideas. You can go to hell because I'm a science fiction writer dill hole!

Besides, these are theories, nothing more, nothing less. So what if i believe that ETs are out or not. You shouldn't insult me because YOU think my ideas are "unreasonable". You are acting like that weird baptist church that is always protesting funerals of gay soldiers. You are attacking me because of my ideas, and beliefs.

If you don't like my hypothesizes, you could have put down what you thought, instead attacking me!

we ant attack you for your ideas, just some of us think your ideas don't make sense and point out our opinions, just because we don't agree with your opinion doesnt mean you can go all crazy on us!

I wasn't talking to you, that was for kitetsu who was attacking me by calling me stupid for my... THERORIES!!!(look it up in the dictionary! it seems people are missing this KEY word's meaning)

I never said that they were facts, they were just ideas of mine!!!

I started this thread to start a conversation on aliens, and i wanted to see what everybody else thought. Not being called an idiot for my ideas.

[cumulusprotagonist]

I hate to say this but there always the possibility that everyone is correct (excluding the namecalling). There are millions of possibilities, variables, and circumstances that could influence hundreds of thousands of different culutures. If ET's exist then this would apply to them too.

Also whenever someone states what they believe, it is always stated as a fact. Does that mean it is a fact? Not necessarily. I try to get by this with my siginature. "Maybe I am wrong"

I see people posting that they are upset because a person is typing something like it is "a fact". Anubis is only typing what he belives to be fact or most probable. I am pretty certain he did NOT say "I am right, you are wrong, and there is nothing you can do about it."

If so then, whether you like it or not you are being prejudicial towards Anubis's beliefs. I realize that this is not intentional. This is caused by thinking that if someone writes it down as if it were a fact it means that they want to destroy your beliefs. It does'nt.

[JoshuaMadoc]

I'd rather take this more seriously than having to be derranged over the thought of aliens coming to earth.

[Aki]

Hey I based my theories off from accounts of UFOs, and alien abductions, as well from theories from well known scientists.

And i really don't like being called stupid, because i do a lot of research, and i think very carefully about my ideas. You can go to hell because I'm a science fiction writer dill hole!

Besides, these are theories, nothing more, nothing less. So what if i believe that ETs are out or not. You shouldn't insult me because YOU think my ideas are "unreasonable". You are acting like that weird baptist church that is always protesting funerals of gay soldiers. You are attacking me because of my ideas, and beliefs.

If you don't like my hypothesises, you could have put down what you thought, instead attacking me!

You were likely "attacked" because you stated them in a fact-like manner. "No, the aliens have..." comes off a lot more factual sounding than "I think the aliens would have..." which sounds more like debating/arguing than stating empirical fact.

Actually....its a "noise pattern" from radio interference.

http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/fcs_face_o ... index.html

Also...the equipment used back in 1976 is not as sophisticated as today. Its a low resolution shot with "noise."


If it was a video....we would've never seen the face pattern at all.

Oh, right.

Well, I was close enough.

[Kzinistzerg]

EDIT: read through the thread. Anubis, you are right about aggression. aki, aggression NEVER evolves out. TO be pacifistic is to die, unless you are Top Dog of the galaxy, or everyone above you is pacifistic. And then, you have to agree...

Also, one point, you do NOT have to have any of those traits you mentioned anubis. You just have to have the technology. Technology can easily be stolen.


Also, if my post above comes off as angry, it's not.

Aww, c'mon. You mention Niven then you say that?

What 'bout the puppeteers?

Uh, did you read: "unless you are Top Dog of the galaxy, or everyone above you is pacifistic"

Puppeteers are top dog! They kick a**! The only thing know in the galaxy with more technology than they have are two races. One, the Pak, who are... extinct, shall we say, and, two, the Outsiders, who are pacifistic in that they have no reason to care what warmlife does.

calling me stupid for my... THERORIES!!!(look it up in the dictionary! it seems people are missing this KEY word's meaning)

Uh huh. Anubis, look, a THEORY has EVIDENCE. You mean a hypothesis. You are speculating. That does not make your speculations wrong, since we are thinking hypothetically here. But please. When you tell someone to use the word theory and look it up, for god's sake, boy, you need to understand its meaning first! Theories, like the Theory of Evolution, have much experimentation, documentation, facts to back them up, and generally evidence.

exact reason why sci-fi writers of this age are one of the dumbest, most unresourced group of idiots to walk the face of mother earth,

I'm sorry, but I take great offense to this statement. I am, assuming, by the annoying and rather pitiful shortening, "Sci-Fi" you mean Science Fiction, which can only be shortened to SF, ever. In the words of the Good Doctor himself.

Now, I hope you'll listen to me when I tell you that most SF writers are much educated than any other writer type. That is, writers of hard SF. Which means SF with SCIENCE. Theses people meticulously state what their grounds rules are. They know about physics, they know the mechanics of fluids, they know the mechanics of flight, sociology, geography, geology, theoretical physics. These people are on the CUTTING edge of things! They're not stupid! They're not uneducated! PLEASE do not say that.

Now I do understand you may have gotten the wrong idea about SF, by seeing or watching Sci-Fi. But really. While 90% of anything is crap, it is exactly the negative flimsy wishy-washy fulla-**** stereotype of all things SF that seriously degrade from it. And you know what? if SF was taken seriously in this culture we would be MUCH further along than we are.

Now, if you are slightly confused, know this. SF refers to Science Fiction. What you read is SF. What you watch on television, that crap that passes for programming, that is Sci-Fi. It's why it's called the Sci-Fi channel.


Again, I'm not angry, though it may be passed off as such.

[Anubis]

Uh huh. Anubis, look, a THEORY has EVIDENCE. You mean a hypothesis. You are speculating. That does not make your speculations wrong, since we are thinking hypothetically here. But please. When you tell someone to use the word theory and look it up, for god's sake, boy, you need to understand its meaning first! Theories, like the Theory of Evolution, have much experimentation, documentation, facts to back them up, and generally evidence.

oops my bad,

I did mean hypothesis

[JoshuaMadoc]

exact reason why sci-fi writers of this age are one of the dumbest, most unresourced group of idiots to walk the face of mother earth,

I'm sorry, but I take great offense to this statement. I am, assuming, by the annoying and rather pitiful shortening, "Sci-Fi" you mean Science Fiction, which can only be shortened to SF, ever. In the words of the Good Doctor himself.

Now, I hope you'll listen to me when I tell you that most SF writers are much educated than any other writer type. That is, writers of hard SF. Which means SF with SCIENCE. Theses people meticulously state what their grounds rules are. They know about physics, they know the mechanics of fluids, they know the mechanics of flight, sociology, geography, geology, theoretical physics. These people are on the CUTTING edge of things! They're not stupid! They're not uneducated! PLEASE do not say that.

Now I do understand you may have gotten the wrong idea about SF, by seeing or watching Sci-Fi. But really. While 90% of anything is crap, it is exactly the negative flimsy wishy-washy fulla-**** stereotype of all things SF that seriously degrade from it. And you know what? if SF was taken seriously in this culture we would be MUCH further along than we are.

Now, if you are slightly confused, know this. SF refers to Science Fiction. What you read is SF. What you watch on television, that crap that passes for programming, that is Sci-Fi. It's why it's called the Sci-Fi channel.


Again, I'm not angry, though it may be passed off as such.

Thank you for not losing the plot (yet). What i meant by unresourced, i meant the part where, while the writers have done their homework, the way they pull it off, i.e. dramatics, plot twists, all other crucial elements that make a decent plot, is absolutely terrible and lackluster, at least in my experience of reading most of the sci-fi i come across..

[Kzinistzerg]

Anubis: *smack* I win! Yaaay!

Kitetsu: that, my dear, is because you were reading Sci-Fi.

Truthfully, I can list many authors I know of whose books are fascinating and very very good. Most books, have you realized, are absolute s***?

[JoshuaMadoc]

So's most of the stuff uploaded in DeviantFart.

I seriously bid you good luck into trying me with those authors. I'm very difficult to please.

[Kzinistzerg]

Reading them is your choice. I can, however, recommend books I have enjoyed; if you do want a list, PM me. Otherwise we ought to get back on topic.

[Aki]

EDIT: read through the thread. Anubis, you are right about aggression. aki, aggression NEVER evolves out. TO be pacifistic is to die, unless you are Top Dog of the galaxy, or everyone above you is pacifistic. And then, you have to agree...

Also, one point, you do NOT have to have any of those traits you mentioned anubis. You just have to have the technology. Technology can easily be stolen.


Also, if my post above comes off as angry, it's not.

Aww, c'mon. You mention Niven then you say that?

What 'bout the puppeteers?

Uh, did you read: "unless you are Top Dog of the galaxy, or everyone above you is pacifistic"

Puppeteers are top dog! They kick a**! The only thing know in the galaxy with more technology than they have are two races. One, the Pak, who are... extinct, shall we say, and, two, the Outsiders, who are pacifistic in that they have no reason to care what warmlife does.

Well, that means a race CAN be pacifistic, no?

So it's not impossible. Not once you're Top Dog and can bypass any threats easily. ^_^

[Rhuen]

any race can be pacifist, either by choice, it happened on their planet or their group is that way and left the planet for space and just happens to encounter your own kind. Or given how huge space is they just have no need for it in their own species or come from a species where violance within the same species isn't part of their make up and haven't encountered a species yet that was a threat to them (as in not one they couldn't just avoid or flee from if its nature clashed with their own).

Plus we also have perspective. To us chimps using tools and some even making crude spears is interesting and we watch them. Perhaps to a species that has lived in space for millions of years would view Earth technology in the same way we might view an Orangutan's leaf nest and so we are just animals to watch and study for the same reason we watch and study animals lower than us. and contact and interaction is avoided so as not to interfer with the natural order or because humans are unpredictable animals to be avoided.
On this same principle I had thought that if the greys were real than they are not the real aliens, but a decoy meant as a medium (like how we might use croc suits to get close to crocodiles and simular ideas) basically a construct perhaps meant as a combination of our features with theirs or just their idea of a generic human using human anatomical averages (an average always comes out looking different than any one individual especially when so many variations in height, color, eye shape, eye color, hair types, and build are all averaged together.

[Scott Gardener]

I really had to come up with some exotic lines of thought to justify an alien invasion in my own writing. Anubis' logic is pretty much the consensus of most intellectuals about the threat--pretty much non-existant, as there isn't really any good reason for a superior power to take over.

Most of our internal conflicts stem either from zealous ideologies or competition of resources. In order to get to us from across the void of space, one must already have plenty of resources to spare, as getting to Earth would take more energy than one could gain short of completely obliterating the planet, and one would have to pass other planets with more obliterative energy along the way. In order to develop spacefaring technology, one would have to live long enough as an intellectual power; I would hope that would grant sufficient time to sort through ideologies and eliminate the dysfunctional ones, just as the kind of adults with enough economic resources to travel to other countries are less likely to have dysfunctional elements such as spouse beating or drug abuse.

I can think of a few reasons for an alien invasion, but they're reaching a bit. Still, if you're writing a story and want aliens to invade Earth, here's some scinareos. Just don't lose sleep over them, as we've got bigger and more probable worries.

1. Human ideologies actually are on to something, and the aliens want more of it. My own storyline works with this premise. In it, ESP is a real phenomenon, and the power of creative visualization isn't just a way to further your career; people can actually literally manipulate space and time. We just haven't yet figured out how to make good use of it. The aliens noticed we have this ability and that they don't--but, only because they've lost creativity. They start becoming creative again figuring us out, and then they start noticing their own also becoming more enriched and empowered, but don't know how to handle it. At one point, in the year 2065, they show up en masse, demanding the answer without really telling us what the question is. And, they decide that knocking out our civilization's infrastructure and performing genetic engineering experiments is for some reason a good way to figure things out. Since they're aliens, part of the mystery is figuring out what they're really thinking and what motivates them, so I purposefully leave some things unexplained.

2. It's for our own good. The aliens are either sympathetic to everyone else on Earth, like dolphins and wolves, or they for some reason know that our decendants will be better stewards of the environment. But, in the mean time, we have to be kept from wiping ourselves out and the Earth's biosphere with it. And, a heavy-handed approach works.

[Rhuen]

In my own writings I have an alien invasion, its reasoning is really weird.

The alien species has a built in instinctive mind set where they develop slowly, as in they have a hard time predicting outcomes and lack imagination (if they havn't seen it or encountered it they can't imagine it) An idea some anthropologists put forward for the lack of art with Neanderthals (only making what they need to survive and lack the mental skill to do otherwise)

now this doesn't make them less intelegent, just different. However its a limiting factor on how fast they develop, as they don't strive for anything other than to survive and have a cold logic about them, best way to survive is to insure they remain at the top of the food chain. So on their own world they may have overtime wiped out all predators, poisonous animals, and such that harm them, unable to imagine at the time that such things could have any use as they have no direct use.
However in humans they see something different, a strange ability to forsee outcomes and develop things from just an idea even if they have no evidence its possible at first. and they see humans developing technology all of a sudden over a realitvly short period of time.

They had thought humans inferior and not worth bothering with but when in a course of only a century we do what took them 10,000 years of steady build up to do it alarms them.
However thanks to studying humans for a few decades they have gained some insight into the "imagination" ability and rip-off some human ideas on the matter by developing a plan to infect earth with a disease to limit our population and then save the day at the last minute indebting humanity to them where they would pose as gods and get humans to then share their imagination with them. The real fear was that humans would have in the next 1,000 years surpased them in technology and power.

Its far fetched and basically implies the aliens randomly collected world domination plans from fictions and combined them to form their strategy in lue of having any actual tactical skills.

[Rhuen]

and what I wrote makes no sense really. It implies behavior impossible given their mind sets, or else it took them decades to randomly stumble across the plan.

But in reality my earlier statements make more sense. an advanced alien race capable of going across the galaxy between systems would have no reason to invade and most likely view humans in much the same way humans view lower animals barely able to use tools.