Horse Slaughter at Foreign Plants

[Ink]

I have seen more than any of you on a kill floor

You might want to update your knowledge banks...

My father was a butcher and he took my brothers and I to a slaughterhouse several times. My brother used to keep a cow's eye in a jar of formaldehyde and took it to school for show-and-tell once.

Don't you love the innocence of yesteryear?

I am so glad you got into a slaughterhouse, so few get the chance!

My father owns and operates a plant in Upstate NY. I was not making a pretentiously boastful observation - I simply do have more experience on a kill floor than most of you, period. These are not just visits - I lived and I've worked every summer here since I was six and just able to reach over the blood barrel to get the Inspector's blood samples from the above hanging carcass.

I've helped kill and cut up at least a thousand head in my time at the market (we're small), but I have been present at other plants during over a thousand head kills per day, helping load meat and sometimes getting a chance to run the gambit outback to get a feel for their high-tech chute system and mechanical hide pullers.

We have been to meat packing plants across the US (my family has been to several plants outside the US while on vacation) on occasion and I have worked in depth with USDA to formulate our HACCP and SSOPs for the plant slaughtering portion of processing. I was making a source point that I am very well versed to even make a comment regarding slaughter of the four legged.

Four generations of family owned and operated... outside stockyards and titanic sized plants for Cargill or Tyscon, it doesn't get more in depth than what I'm talking.

[vrikasatma]

My dad had a packing plant. He was also a distributor. This was in Santa Cruz, CA, which is kind of like having a marital aids shop in a small town in the Bible Belt.

I'm no vegetarian and after all the static we caught from ALF and PeTA, you bet I'm no animal rightist. I avoid beef for health reasons, and I look at horses the same way Indians look at cows: worth more alive than dead. 99% of the country holds the same view. It's where I draw the line. Don't eat dogs, cats, horses or hawks.

I'm also opposed to horse slaughter because the way politics run in this country, it means mustangs and feral equines get rounded up and shipped off to the slaughterhouses. And they did. The Senator from Montana — who got his a** voted up the river last year — did exactly that. Equine advocates and Ford Motor Company, of all bodies, mobilized and saved a bunch of them. Ford bought a bunch of acreage and set it up as a sanctuary.

More sinisterly, horse thieves steal horses for the meat money. A friend of mine got hit by a scam where this guy pulled up with a big trailer and truck, gets out and starts yelling at her that there's a judgment against her and the sheriff had ordered her horses seized as an asset. She went into the barn, grabbed a pitchfork and said, "If the sheriff wants to seize my horses, he can come here himself, with a warrant. Otherwise, GET THE HELL OFF MY LAND." He took off with some fist-shaking and she never saw him again...but read about someone else in her town getting hit with a similar M.O. and losing her family horses.

We're going to Ft. Worth for the Nationals next October and we <i><b>will not</i></b> be stopping in or anywhere near El Paso or Las Cruces. They have a lot of trouble with livestock rustling there and the rustlers in El Paso are particularly brazen, aggressive and desperate. There's a slaughterhouse right over the border and that's where they end up. We've heard stories of rustlers swiping horses right out of the trailers while you're at a gas station, tanking up.

[Ink]

Personally, I love horse meat. But I have no hobby boundaries for food - namely because it's as arbitrary (IMHO) as picking the color of my underwear. To me the cultural construction of health is too diverse to start nailing down if coffee is good for you or if eating a steak will give you cancer.

Good to Eat by Marvin Harris is a phenomenal book about this stuff and I think you'd like it. It's a wee bit zany, but LOTS of information. It is, however, not a book to live by but a cultural synopsis of 'why' we eat what we do and don't eat certain other things. He covers horses, cows, bugs, grandma and such... You might be the kind of person who'd find it insightful.

I just think that horse meat is as good as anything else - and if I can get good squid in the US, I might as well be entitled to freakin' eating horse.

Off topic, I have a question - did you ever find that your parents stockpile on steaks at home? I wonder if this is a butcher's family phenomena or if my parents were weird...

Anyway, for the sake of on-topic discussion - the border sounds insane. However, that issue is a reflection on border control, a different issue entirely. Just because it involves horses does not mean it's related to this issue. If people are stealing horses for slaughter that's a distinct issue and should involve an increase in border control agents, people toting guns, and a kill-on-site policy for offending illegal's attempting to steal someone's pony.

Horses legally shipped into Mexico are slaughtered in a sensible fashion by plants and plant workers who want to go home to their families, not break their wrist/arm trying to stab a horse in the head. Common sense slaughtering a 1000+ pound critter is really what it comes down to. I'm pretty sure, unless we're talking torture sports, even criminals looking to kill a horse do so with speed, accuracy and efficiency. They want to make a dollar - not get hurt and have to spend money; hospital bills and funerals are expensive even for those operating outside the law.

In the end, whether or not legally slaughtering horses is right or wrong in one person's eyes, neither perspective should take dictation over the other: horses might be worth more to you alive than dead, but I ride horses and also find them scrumptious morsels on a plate of onion sauce and with a really big glass of red wine. Let both markets flourish and everybody can have their piece of the pie.

I say never sell something short of its full potential. Killing a domestic industry, albeit a smaller one, and flood the recreational horse market full of junk and obliterating the stock price to garbage is less productive and denying the potential of an animal that is denied a usage because of some anthropomorphization.

Thank god in America 'bad' legislation can be repealed — that is the joy of our nation. And we can hopefully clear up issues at the border when that topic comes up to keep our equine pets safe and our horse meat horses making money for our economy - even if they are sold to foreign markets for slaughter or internally slaughtered for foreign markets.

Hopefully, even if a nation wide ban on horse meat becomes some bizarre hobby American's embrace, we can make money on the export of horses. I'd rather at least that venue be chased than hoping to spend money on sanctuaries that possess no rate of return. That's the last thing we need - more money pits ...

[cumulusprotagonist]

Personally, I love horse meat. But I have no hobby boundaries for food - namely because it's as arbitrary (IMHO) as picking the color of my underwear.

Why don't you try human then...

Wait...
What is a hobby boundary?

He covers horses, cows, bugs, grandma

Grandma!?

[Ink]

Personally, I love horse meat. But I have no hobby boundaries for food - namely because it's as arbitrary (IMHO) as picking the color of my underwear.

Why don't you try human then...

Wait...
What is a hobby boundary?

Haha... You misunderstand me - I am talking anthropologically.

I would try human but they frown on that culturally - it's call cannibalism and it would not bode well for my future amongst my species, as I am sure you understand; though I hear we're quite sweet according to arrested and tried People-Eaters.

Anyway, regardless of the taboo itself, we have created a cultural food 'boundary' - which is nothing more than a rule we adhere to because we all want to live in the same society. It is not, however, a biological limitation. You and I can consume human flesh like anything else and digest it. Hence it is nothing more than a 'cultural hobby/routine' we limit ourself by.

I am not attempting to belittle it, but I study anthropology and in a message board synopsis it is critically difficult to explain right. Even if my designation as a hobby seems somewhat superficial, most anthropologists regulate human behavior as derivative of a routine or pattern laid out by culture (Big and Little culture as it might be). If we do not play along with said hobby it can lead to life altering consequences within a culture.

Granted, in some cultures, of bygone era, you would probably have been looked at cross-eyed if you did not participate in cannibalism.

That's just how fickle/diverse/subjective Culture is.

In the 'Culture' of Americans we eat an array of certain things. But chocolate covered ants haven't been a staple (even though they're good) and few of you have ever tried moose nose soup or drank blood of seal. The former I have tasted and the latter I have not. However, none of these things I have illustrated are inherently bad for you - but none of them being culturally embraced as what we know as 'food'.

In the sub-cultures of America you have people who have their own 'hobby boundaries' for their foods - like not eating meat or eating only meat. Vegans and hardcore Atkins fanatics respectively.

In India, you've got Indian's who's palette is derived from spice and little meat - as meat is precious. A body of rice is a heavy structure relied upon for the main course. This is not so much in the America's as the main course.

These cultural hobbies have meaning, so don't forget that. There's a reason we don't explore other hobbies at times - but at the same time knowing their trivial nature in today's market is a fantastic thing. Suddenly we have a world's array of edibles we have never explored... and to understand it we have to own up to the fact we can eat nearly anything that isn't inherently deadly or needs an incredible intestinal track to digest (such as grass and twigs - but the nutritional value is nill so mother nature was doing us a favor).

Mr. Harris' book goes in depth regarding these topics and his a better way of explaining things in layperson terms.

And my statement of 'no hobby boundaries' means I don't really give a crap - that does not mean I seek out poo or edible children (or grandma) for snacks. I just really find taste subjective when it comes down to it - and I don't like people who constantly go, "I can't eat this, I can't eat that, that disgusts me, ewww! Why would you put that on your plate?"

It's quite obviously a hobby they have denying the world's plenty into a microcosm of edibles consisting mostly of white bread, rice, and diet soda.

And that's fine if they want to do that... but dear god stop talking about it. Health is a ritual by cultural standards - it is a concept of the culture and not an actuality in the presence of much more than the question, "Are you dead yet?"

If there was an actual science to defining health we'd know if coffee or non-stick teflon cookware is the reason we're all going to die. Oh, wait, we're all going to do that anyway... but people absolutely love some fabricated idea they have control to postpone it when they aren't even near a deathbed.

Maybe in the end I just like looking at things and pontificating if it'd taste good after an adventure in a grill. Call me demented, but I, as an anthropologist, get to call it SCIENCE!

Bwahaha...

He covers horses, cows, bugs, grandma

Grandma!?

Yes, Marvin Harris, in his book "Good to Eat", discusses cannibalism.

[vrikasatma]

Hey, like I said, I'm no bunny-hugger by anyone's definition. I've eaten some weird stuff, including bobcat soup, myself (sorry, Short-Tail). I've drank blood straight from a freshly-killed mouflan ram. And one of my horse's trainers, who came from Belgium, has eaten horse. I won't partake; it's a ring-pass-not for me. And believe it or not, I voted against the California banning of horsemeat, if only because I didn't like the thought of Sacramento dictating what we can or can't have in our kitchens, and I didn't want to see the trade become a black market. Whenever you criminalize a substance, the value skyrockets and those in pursuit of that dollar get more dangerous. That "sheriff" scam I talked about happened to a friend in California.

But now, I guess I've gotten wiser in my old age and as it happens, the vast majority of the country feels the same way. I still don't want to see horsemeat on the black market but as far as I'm concerned, the .5% of Americans who want to indulge can bloody well fly over to France and leave our mustangs where they belong. Same as decadent gourmets can go to Japan and drink cobra blood straight from the source, while it's still twitching.

(BTW, I understand chocolate-covered bees — with the stings removed — taste pretty good, like chocolate-coated crisp rice)

On the subject of cannibalism...
Biologically, if a species goes from not eating its own to eating its own, that's a sign of impending fatal corruption. Like rabbits giving birth to and then eating their young. There's also the health risks: Creutzfeld-Jakob aside, who the hell'd <i>want</i> to eat a human?!? We're loaded down with all kinds of toxic chemicals, mercury being the least worst.

I hear ya about "hobby boundaries." We as a species have become unnaturally whingey about food. It's like when the sexual revolution came about and made procreation optional, we just transferred the queasiness we used to accord to sex onto another natural function: feeding ourselves.

I once ran a camp kitchen at Burning Man for my camp. One year we had 145 people camped with us, and about half were vegetarians. Sprinkled throughout were, I think, every dietary restriction known to humanity, some being medically legit (like diabetes and ground nut allergies), but most were ideological. One guy's guru told him to avoid anything fermented, one borderline sociopath hectored me for not catering to the gluten-intolerant who preferred quinoa as their designated substitute (she was apparently unhappy with the flaxseed meal and cornmeal I'd brought to cover those who couldn't have wheat), a handful were militant vegans who wanted every pot, dish, utensil and container that had come in contact with animal-based food labeled. I got so disgusted with the whining that one night, I just plunked a bucket of water down in the middle of the table and said, "There. That should cover everyone."

Obviously an extreme example and after I played that prank, they left me alone and I for my part made an honest attempt to accommodate everyone. Certain food intolerances are pretty common, but only 11% of the populace are actually allergic to any given food item. I know two people who are allergic to garlic, one person allergic to chocolate, three people allergic to groundnuts and one person allergic to both garlic and onions (the poor suffering bastard).

BTW, a tip: if you're allergic to peanuts and get slipped one by accident, drink some half-and-half. It won't make you okay, but it will keep you out of the emergency room. A friend that's allergic to peanuts does that and it's saved her life a couple times, including once when I was there. We're guessing that the water-based milk coats the tissue in a protective layer and separates out the peanut oil.

[Ink]

But now, I guess I've gotten wiser in my old age and as it happens, the vast majority of the country feels the same way. I still don't want to see horsemeat on the black market but as far as I'm concerned, the .5% of Americans who want to indulge can bloody well fly over to France and leave our mustangs where they belong. Same as decadent gourmets can go to Japan and drink cobra blood straight from the source, while it's still twitching.

Well, the only diner menus that horse meat is on in the US is on the black market. Save for anyone willing to do on-farm slaughters, which to me is ridiculous and short sited of people who have 'the best intentions'.

As for the mustangs - those who are sold to slaughter are the elders of a herd that are often weeded out due to their inability to be gentled.

As a national symbols, however, mustangs are not dying off at inconceivable rates (they just finished up the last auctions for this years round up!). With well financed backers and a herd population that grows 20% every three-four years and is in need of thinning, hell that's pretty nice. And the Kigers go for top dollar due to their value in show rings across the mid-west and west coast - which the auction is ... this weekend or something for those guys in Oregon; amazingly beautiful critters, I might add. I trust in the Bureau of Land Management's skills in this matter - not because I trust government but they have the crazies with all eyes on them... The mustang is going nowhere.

What bothers me is how fast the ideals of some form of a government we have. I mean, how much closer to fascism are we now that all the horse slaughterhouses in the US are closed?

"I'll tell you what you can and cannot kill to eat in the United States of America. Your diet is under MY control..."

Great. Makes me want to head to Canada (which is where I get my horse meat; **** France). But I can't have my destructive devices or big guns, so I'll stick with the US (I can live without horse meat; ridiculous amounts of fire power, WWII buffs and black powder... eh, not so much).

What's next, our fast food? Soda? Indulgences? Pork? They're equally as trivial as horse meat ought to be. Just because a group of people feels a bond with a particular horse (or the horses in their mind), well, that doesn't mean every horse out there is suitable for breeding, showing, riding, ground work, companionship, or even being set loose into the 'wild'. The only safe horse at times is an imaginary one when it comes down to it.

I think in the end we lost something good from the idea of horse meat, but thankfully time has not stopped. One day in the future horse meat will become popular - as history tells, people just have to get hungry enough. Think WWII...

As for eating people... People ate Grandma out of respect for her spirit. People ate their enemies to gain their power and insight; the Aztecs did it due to protein deficiencies. It's amazing what ritual and routine will drive us to.

CJD, vCJD, and nvCJD are highly prized forms of a disease that shocks us as to why we shouldn't eat each other. But really, I don't think that's the reason we shouldn't be chewing on little Susie's leg or seeing Fear Factor serve up some poor man's genitalia. Those forms of disease are not entirely from consuming a dead relative - it can be manifest from eating anything with a TSE (transmissible spongiform encephalopathy). Which basically means if you eat something with scrapie, mad cow, or a list of other TSE prions (rogue proteins on it). Hell, anything with proteins can manifest these disease causing prions!

The fact is, with nvCJD, it may very well have to do with genetics, though. This points to an entirely different spectrum of TSE's ... so it's a catch 22.

Besides, TSE's are usually found only in high concentrations of a certain type of protein found in the brain, spinal column, and spinal fluid. A good example was of the fact cannibalistic eaters of the Papa New Guinea tribesmen (Fore tribe) did not come down with the disease if they (the men) ate the flesh. The women, however, who ate the spinal column and brain contracted the disease and very quickly deteriorated. It became known as kuru.

For a related but entirely genetic prion disease (they have isolated the genetic marker) is fatal familial insomnia. This is a look into the eyes of big problems with the brain activating prions in certain areas that, due to genetic markers, kick on some prion activity in the sleep center of the brain and begin to put the sufferer into a state of consciousness that deteriorates them until they finally die. It is entirely genetic and extraordinarily rare.

I wrote a thesis on prions, mad cow, the forms of CJD, and other fun things that wrap this portion of the subject materials for a graduate class in human ecology... ugh.

For all we know on the subject, the fact is there is little risk of contraction unless you start fondling brains...

So Grandma is still up for grabs at diner at this rate. Heh...

[Anónimo Juan]

I haven't heard of this where I live, (south of Texas, like 6 hours from there) maybe it's in other part of the border, where usually most of these things happen, if it's illegal, both Mexico and E.U. should pay more attention to this, tough, at the moment, their priorities are immigrants I guess.

I think, that animal violence would be killing it slowly, punching it, when we have the methods to do it faster; I posted a video about this on http://www.thepack.network/thepackboard ... this topic.