Werewolf character must always struggle with his beast!!!

[Dreamer]

(I did find an interesting short story about a good werewolf. "The Compleat Werewolf" tells of a man who chooses to become a werewolf for the "fun" of it. I liked it. First time i saw a werewolf story where the humans are the bad guys, and the werewolf is the hero. )
Back to the thread,
I think when humans "fight the beast" instead of seeing an evil in themselves they have to deal with, they need to see an animal they can place all blame on, and not feel guilty. Hence, the wolf being used as a sign of evil, and the preverbial scaegoat. I wonder: what would humans blame if the wolves vanished from the planet. Indeed, what if all the animals dissappeared from the planet, save humans. What would they blame then?

No, I think taht it comes from the fact taht humanity thinks that evil comes from an earlier, more primal part of the brain, thus associating it with animals, when it actually comes from a higher, newer part of the brain.

[Blue-eyes in the dark]

But all man is evil not one to trust on this blue planet.

[RedEye]

Okay...Let's LOOK at a supposed Population of Werewolves, doing the "Hide in plain sight" bit. They are just as moral as the next guy, basically decent people-who just happen to be able to turn into Wolf-like beings at either certain times or at will; take your pick.
There is one little obvious fact here: They're better at just about every survival skill than Smoothskin humans are.

In short, other than in sheer numbers, they are Mankind's superiors.

What do we do to enemies; real or not? The first thing that happens is to dehumanize them by making them into a big nasty Mass: not People, but a Mass of evil minded beings.
Most of you are too young to remember the "Red Scare" set up by Joseph McCarthy; some of you remember the "Commie Sympathizers" of the Vietnam era, and all of you remember the Evil Taliban and Al'Qaida...

Werewolves would present such a perceived threat, if they existed. In the stories and the movies where they do exist: Human nature requires that they be sub-humans, who have to fight the "Beast inside them"...whether that "Beast" is violent or not.
Like I've said before: "Humans do not play well with others." It applies when those "Others" are Human; and applies in Spades if they happen to be Intelligent Non-Humans (in fact, or just in appearance).
Look at what happens to Furries! They commit the "sin" of appearing as not-human intelligent beings; and people react in what seems to be almost a genetically-programmed ( or at least Societal) response of hostility...to "creatures" that aren't in the least dangerous!
Maybe the Cro-Magnons didn't all die out because of climate change...maybe they were "helped' into extinction by the first Homo Sapiens.
This isn't an accusation. It's an observation; that's all. We seem to need to be the best there is, whether we really are or not, as a species.

Ask the Indians. Ask the Jews. Ask the Moslems. Ask the Blacks. Ask the countless peoples that we have identified as "competition" to us (and that's a multi-racial, multi societal us, by the way).
We seem to be, as a Species, very intolerant of the "Other"- whoever that "Other" may be.
Thus, the Indian is "sneaky", the Jew "Greedy", the Moslem "violent", and the Black "Lazy"...and the Werewolf "must" struggle with the "beast"--whether the "Beast" needs to be struggled against-or not.

Whatver race, society, orientation, or belief "we" are; everyone else is somehow "less" than us: we make them so, in our minds.

This is just an opinion-formed by nearly sixty years of observation-but it seems to hold true to the Race called Humanity. Some people rise above it, more with each generation; but it seems to always be there.
Maybe that's the "Beast" that WE have to struggle with...

I'll shut up, now.

[Dreamer]

Jesus H Christ, RedEye, you are way overly paranoid.

Humans demonizing wolves may have played a part in the were myths of the middle ages but the "Man struggling with his beast" archetype came of age during the Hollywood era. In those werewolves, it seemed to embody the human battle between the Superego and Id. SInce most people see evil as created by a primal part of ourselves, a "Beast within" seemed perfect as a metaphor. Ironically, we now know that the opposite is true, that only the most intelligent species (such as Dolphins and Chimps) are capable of comitting evil.

Interestingly enough, there is a more realistic and less evil take on the idea of "The BEast Within" in Peter is the Wolf, the beast being mainly composed of standard canine instincts, as well as sexual desire, which isn't evil so much as a nuicance.

[Defensorem Lupus]

But does free will play a part in all of this? There are those who WANT to be evil, those who were MADE to be evil, and those who were BORN evil. And yet what exactly is evil? One thing that may seem bad in one culture may be presented as good in the other, then what happens there? What is the UNIVERSAL EVIL? Is there one? When it comes down to it, these are the questions that are needed to be known. Like I said before, it is NOT evil when it is a matter of survival . . . or is it?

[JoshuaMadoc]

But all man is evil not one to trust on this blue planet.

*blows megawhistle*

"Evil" is a concept that is unbound by the species of a living being. To bind it as such is to make yourself no more different than humans themselves, and no more different to all the rehashed antagonists that get killed by the power of love and the undaunting "believe in you" kitschy nonsense in most japanese RPGs. No one but yourself is asking you to trust someone indefinitely, because trust can be broken just as infinitely as mending it.

I believe "evil" is an illusion coming from one's perceptions, and it is also an illusion that makes people progressively less capable of thinking rationally. I find it hard to believe, however, that living beings are born evil. I would apologize if someone proved me wrong, when they show me footage of an infant committing acts of evil.

So, if you're saying you don't want to trust your own kind, then you eventually won't be able to trust yourself. Nobody's stopping you with this path, but don't expect people to help you when you finally come crying to them after so many of the offers of help they made to you have been rejected by yourself.


Now, stupidity, on the other hand, may be the true evil.

[RedEye]

Jesus H Christ, RedEye, you are way overly paranoid.

Humans demonizing wolves may have played a part in the were myths of the middle ages but the "Man struggling with his beast" archetype came of age during the Hollywood era. In those werewolves, it seemed to embody the human battle between the Superego and Id. SInce most people see evil as created by a primal part of ourselves, a "Beast within" seemed perfect as a metaphor. Ironically, we now know that the opposite is true, that only the most intelligent species (such as Dolphins and Chimps) are capable of comitting evil.

Interestingly enough, there is a more realistic and less evil take on the idea of "The BEast Within" in Peter is the Wolf, the beast being mainly composed of standard canine instincts, as well as sexual desire, which isn't evil so much as a nuicance.

Actually, my references, qoutes, and conclusions come from a study of History; not Psychology.
However; do take a look at the average school-yard in, say, an Elementary school. Any child that is different-be it physically or mentally or even culturally is the target of the majority of the children there.
Do they learn it at home? Don't think so; since the parents are usually shocked when they are contacted by the school after their little "darling" has done something that they couldn't have picked up at home.
(Admitedly, this is based on a real event I was drawn into, some years back. The parents were definitely not bigots or intolerant; and the child offered as a defense the phrase: "But he was like-wierd-he wasn't like any of us-he was wierd!")
Our nearest biological relatives; the chimpanzees, have as a group descriptor: Gangs. They will attack any strange chimp on sight.
Perhaps; this is an inherited set of actions in us, as well; but it is definitely there.

As I pointed out: I'm not slamming anyone- What I've referred to has happened over and over again, throughout history.

So, how does this square with a Werewolf "Struggling with his beast" as a part of popular culture? Werewolves are different. People invent all sorts of things about minorities and people they don't know-and it's almost always negative. Read your history if you doubt me.
Werewolves are different, and thus become the same targets as any other minority, imaginary or not.

Personally, since both Man and Wolf are social creatures; I'd prefer to think a Werewolf (once he got over being scared out of his wits) would be more social, and less violent than the average Wolf or Human. It's just a matter of taking the positive aspects of the being into account; instead of the negative ones.

[cumulusprotagonist]

...

True evil is not determined by what a person does and not necessarily even why they do it. It is how they view or treat other living things with their intentions. In this sense it would be much harder to determine whether or not any members of the canid family have the mental capacity for evil.

[JoshuaMadoc]

In this sense it would be much harder to determine whether or not any members of the canid family have the mental capacity for evil.

I don't think that's relevant to begin with... If we're capable of "evil", then everyone and everything else also are capable of "evil". If wolves or other animals that people would froth in their mouths for do not know the concept of "evil", then we would never see any of those cute pictures of them, grooming and hugging and playbiting each other.

[IndianaJones]

There is good and evil within us all. You can choose to be good or bad, but we don't that do we?

Light cannot exist without Darkness, Positivity cannot exist without Negativity. There is order and balance through the whole universe or really balance?

Sorry, just been reading too much about problem reaction situations.

[Ookami-kun]

I prefer gray areas though.

Still, in any case, I think the "feralness" shown by a lot of media is more of the uncivilized HUMAN mind than the wolf's.

[JoshuaMadoc]

I prefer gray areas though.

Still, in any case, I think the "feralness" shown by a lot of media is more of the uncivilized HUMAN mind than the wolf's.

You have absolutely no idea how painfully obvious that statement is making my mentality suffer...

[Ookami-kun]

XD I love that

[Caine]

In some of the writing I have done, I have explored this concept of the dual personality a little bit. The idea of having to wrestle with an inner self, an opposite you, is something that is incredibly old in literary circles and today it is seen as something of a cliche. If done poorly, it certainly is; however, I have also found the dual personality to be a great technique for building character. It allows for an inside monologue, or even dialogue to take place. But yes, I would agree it is cliche.

I wonder though... I'm currently writing a short story in which a person, once they become a werewolf, cease to be the person they were before. The no longer have a split personality. Their personality is not human, nor is it wolven. It's something altogether different. What do people think of that?

Should or can werewolves, once they become werewolves, have unique personalities alien to our own human morality and, more importantly, a set of moral values independent of either wolf or human consciousness?

It's a pretty metaphysical thought, but it's something I'm toiling with for my short story and so far, I really like the change in perspective. Thoughts?

[RedEye]

Good point. I suspect that there would be a couple of changes go on as the "Wolfing"process occurred:

There would be Fear, and the fear based mindset. Then, there would be the "Wow" mindset, after the new Were' realizes that he/she is now a different species. Last, there would be a "Consensual" mindset: the Were' has made "peace" with the Wulf, decided that a low profile is the way to go, and settles in with their "secret" and their new "abilities".

Basically, just as Smooth-human minds are always changing; there's no reason to think that the Werewolf would be any different. Once the "Shiny" had rubbed off; the Werewolf would have to get back to dealing with life.

Looking at Goldenwulfen's site, another possibility rises: Suppose that the Shift was permanent...That the person was now effectively stuck in the Anthro-Wolf mode, and wasn't going to change back?
What would that do?
My suspicion: new critter, new mindset...in that mindset is how we deal with life and our relationships therein.

[Caine]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm getting at. The person, once they have become a werewolf, act outside of the normal human and wolf paradigms for thought processes and morality. They are neither human nor wolf. They are a blurring the boundaries between wolf and man and the result is something entirely new, strange, and different.

It's mind might not have characteristics of either. Instead, it would have the characteristics of a werewolf.

[Midnight]

Looking at Goldenwulfen's site, another possibility rises: Suppose that the Shift was permanent...That the person was now effectively stuck in the Anthro-Wolf mode, and wasn't going to change back?
What would that do?

I can just imagine the first day back at work after the change if anything like that ever happened to me... "uh, gudday, boss, yeah, it's still me, I just had a bit of a run-in with something... oh, and do me a favour? Don't let the accountants know about this. I'll tell them in person. Eventually."

[RedEye]

Try looking up the "California Kitfox" for some advisories pertaining to Were's and the like.

[WereWolfBoy]

okay thanx RedEye