Transformation and Privacy?

[Silverclaw]

OK, I have no idea if this has been talked about yet. I did a quick search but found nothing. So sorry if this thread has already been done

Would werewolves care if they shifted in front of others? Is it something they would rather be alone to do? I was thinking of the book 'Bitten'. The weres in there consider transforming from human-to-wolf to be one of the most private things one can do. To interrupt or watch would be extremely rude/embarrassing.
Of course they wouldn't transform in front of regular humans,(unless they knew their secret and are friends.) Would Packmates separate briefly, shift, and then regroup? Or do you think they would consider it natural and shift in each others presence without another thought?

[Spongy]

Personally, if I were a werewolf (and boy do I wish I was), I would consider it completely natural, and would probably shift wherever without another thought. But that's saying if my clothes stayed intact. If my clothes were to be ripped off during the shift and certain areas were to be exposed, I'd probably go hide, shift, and put some new clothes on.

[RedEye]

I suspect that would depend on the Werewolf.

There IS another reason for privacy, though... As you Shift, you're totally helpless; as in cannot move to save your life-until the shift is completed.

Sometimes, Privacy isn't about modesty-or embarassment. It's about protecting yourself during your helpless period.

[Spongy]

Hmm...when you put it that way, RedEye.... On second thought, I would probably want to make sure I'm in a safe place before shifting >_o

[Silverclaw]

I suspect that would depend on the Werewolf.

There IS another reason for privacy, though... As you Shift, you're totally helpless; as in cannot move to save your life-until the shift is completed.

Sometimes, Privacy isn't about modesty-or embarassment. It's about protecting yourself during your helpless period.

Good point.
You think wws would feel safer going a little ways into the forest (or wherever) separately and hiding for their transformation? Or maybe staying together, and breaking into smaller groups taking turns to shift?

[Terastas]

The first shift I think should always, always be supervised. It's impossible to know what it's really like to turn into something else, so somebody should be there to talk the beginning werewolf through it and make sure nothing goes wrong.

After that, I think it would be an issue of protection and privacy. I don't expect a werewolf will always wear clothing that can handle the shift, so if a werewolf was planning to shift, I think at least the majority of the pack would ask to be alone and get naked before shifting. Another werewolf could simply wait outside with their back to the door, both to make sure nobody went in uninvited, and to be right there at a moment's notice should anything go wrong during the shift as well.

That's assuming they had the time and the resources to actually set the scenario for themselves. If they were out in the wilderness and/or multiple individuals had to shift all at once, instead of isolating themselves, it might be easier to just stand in a circle with their backs to each other so they could all keep watch. Maybe they could go evens/odds and have half the werewolves shift and then the other half shift when the first half are done, that way not everyone would be in a vulnerable half-shifted state all at once.

[Fyriewolf]

I agree with Terastas. The first shift should always be supervise. And the rest should be in a safe place where nothing or anything can or will get hurt.

[Scott Gardener]

The shifting itself implies a need for privacy from mundane humans, who shouldn't know about lycanthropy in the first place. That shifting would involve exposing certain aspects of one's anatomy implies a certain selectivity about who can or can't watch. Still, the question boils down in part to whether werewolves have a different cultural outlook on exposed body parts than mainstream human cultures.

The first shift, though, I agree would be a special case, for two reasons. First, it's not a good idea to leave a first-time shifter unsupervised. (I don't think it would be, anyway. I can't say with absolute confidence that I really know, given the hypothetical nature of the whole thing. But, in my storylines it wouldn't be.) Second, someone shifting for the first time would be new to lycanthropy and lycanthropic society, and thus wouldn't have that outlook.

[RedEye]

Let me propose two ideas here; they're from the novel-

1: The first-time Shift is from Wulfen to Smoothskin; since the process of Crossing Over (becoming a Werewolf) takes time-as in days; while your body is being re-made into the Gestalt form. This is both from the Freeborn idea-book and my own novel; and yes, that is supervised since you are the equivalent of being critically ill during the process, and yes, you need help just to survive. Dehydration and Malnutrition are the two major risks of Crossing Over, and you will need support during the process-the very least being a safe place to rest as this happens.

2: Kindred- Smoothskins who are "in" on the Secret, and provide a support network for Were's while not themselves being Werewolves. There are people who would do this just because they like and respect Were' kind, and gain benefits as a result; like exclusive trade and business support, physical protection in time of war, and a gaurantee that they will not be at risk when dealing with the Were's in full Wulf form.
They might even provide the support needed while someone "Crosses", since they could avoid the Lunar effects and related "Werewolf Only" problems.
They could also demonstrate that they were Human-while a Wulf couldn't.

Just an idea...

[Kzinistzerg]

I LIKE that idea!

[Rosiewolf]

In the book "Bitten", I have to disagree with the part when if you walk in on someone in their Change and you would get stuck inbetween forms. (Now I know this is just what the author thinks of a werewolf). But how would seeing a person Change be able to affect them? Sure, privacy would be nice during the Change, but it still kind of confuses me. And if you were to get stuck inbetween (Kelley Armstrong, the author of Bitten) you could change back, but in the book, she says that you can't. If you can change into wolf form and then back to human, I would assume that it would be possible to change into either form (wolf or human).

[RedEye]

Getting "stuck" doesn't make sense. Could you PM me as to the author's reasoning (if any) as to why a Shift could get stuck if someone saw it?

To my mind; the Shift is as irresistable as the tide coming in: once started, it would continue to completion unless the one Shifting died as a result of the Shift.
Even a Magic-induced Shift would do so- and I include "curses" as magic.

Shifting involves so much energy that once in motion, inerita would see it completed. And as your bones re-shape and muscles grow larger and aall the rest-you are totally Helpless: you can't move! You might not even be fully consious!

[chubhound]

From what I could make out in reading the book, it's not having someone see a werewolf changing that gets them "stuck". It could be, but it seemed more like the werewolf got stuck between forms out of fear/panic or just sheer physical exhaustion. Plus the point is made that Non-Pack werewolves (like the one that gets stuck mid-shift) can't always change on demand. It seemed to me that the werewolf was trying to change, but wasn't able to do it totally "on demand", and was too exhausted after being chased and then being beat after the guards caught him caused his body to shut off the shift in mid-transformation.

[Fyriewolf]

But what if a human being saw you shapeshifting the first time and you go on attacking them? Is that a safe way for privacty?

[IndianaJones]

If someone saw you shift into your werewolf form, then everyone in your town knows that you are a werewolf. Privacy and secret is the werewolf's best friend unless a very close friend trusts you.

[Jarden]

Well if you were gonna get naked and trasform, wouldn't be a little uncomfortable if there was group of people sitting there staring at you?

[Terastas]

In the book "Bitten", I have to disagree with the part when if you walk in on someone in their Change and you would get stuck inbetween forms. (Now I know this is just what the author thinks of a werewolf). But how would seeing a person Change be able to affect them?

The only possible way I could think to explain that would be if shifting was a process that required a lot of focus and concentration. If you go by that logic, a person suddenly entering the room could stop the shift because it would distract the werewolf, break his focus and possibly leave him too stressed or confused to refocus and complete the shift.

However, that doesn't explain how a werewolf would shift the first time. Just as it's impossible to know what it feels like to shift until it's been done, it's also impossible to know how to shift until it's been done. At least the first shift has to be forced, after which a werewolf may learn how to force it or resist it.

In my own definition, shifting is physically and mentally draining, so much so that shifting too often too frequently can have painful, maybe even fatal consequences, so werewolves that shift have to spend at least a few hours in that form before they can shift back. If you accept that as part of the werewolf description, a distraction could disrupt a forced shift, but they would only be stuck like that temporarily until enough time had passed that they could safely shift again.

[Ansuru]

From what I could make out in reading the book, it's not having someone see a werewolf changing that gets them "stuck". It could be, but it seemed more like the werewolf got stuck between forms out of fear/panic or just sheer physical exhaustion. Plus the point is made that Non-Pack werewolves (like the one that gets stuck mid-shift) can't always change on demand. It seemed to me that the werewolf was trying to change, but wasn't able to do it totally "on demand", and was too exhausted after being chased and then being beat after the guards caught him caused his body to shut off the shift in mid-transformation.

I'm familiar with the series (one of my favs, omg people!), and the passage in question. Armstrong's weres undergo a transformation of the slow-and-exhaustingly-painful kind, that takes a special kind of concentration to get through with any kind of speed. The Pack wolves, having the benefit of a strong authority figure who tries to teach them to control themselves, can do it much faster than Mutts (lone wolves who, for various reasons aren't accepted by the Pack). Elena is embarrassed at how slowly she changes after her return to the Pack—I gather a fast transformation is around 5 minutes, a slower one around 15 or more.

The weres in this series feel a need for privacy in their transformations because of the way the Change takes place—mid-Change, you can wind up looking pretty freaky, and I don't mean furry-gestalt Cool freaky. The safety reason may also play a part in it, but I recall that Clayton has no such inhibitions about his shifting (which is a whole thread in itself: DID Clayton really do the impossible and survive being Bitten as a toddler, or was he, perhaps, born to a true wolf mother, or maybe (less likely—there's nothing to suggest nonhumans can be Bitten in the series so far) Bitten as a wolf cub?)

As a result of this discipline, they also have greater control over their transformations, as evidenced by the passage we're talking about, and by some of the "tricks" they can employ, like partial-transformation (ie: Elena's "claws" earlier in that same book). Because of this partial transformation, I believe it is also possible to change your mind mid-Change and turn back to what you were.

The Mutt who gets stuck has just been chased through the woods by a man armed to the teeth. Terrified and exhausted, his instincts are pulling him in two directions. Human says "GDI KEEP RUNNING! RUNRUN RUNRUNRUNRUN!!!!!!11" Wolf says, "GDI SHIFT AND LET ME TEAR HIS THROAT OUT!!!!!11one1!" With the object of his frustrations standing over him, his terror and exhaustion keep him from being able to force himself to complete OR reverse the transformation, and his instincts are too muddled to take care of it for him.

Also of note, this doesn't mean Mutts are all incompetent mongrels; just that the reasons for which the Pack rejects them also tend to make them lazy, self-centered, and more likely to give in to instinct and desire over common sense. Hence Elena's job of hunting down the really bad ones that can't control themselves well enough to keep from going on bloody rampages and attracting human attention.

[RedEye]

Here's another concept for partial shifting: Panic.

Essentially, the Human gets really frightened, to the point that instinct takes over.
The Shift then occurs, but only enough to get the Shiftee's body the heck out of there. There is only enough time for a partial shift, just enough to improve survival during a freakout.
That's dangerous. The Werewolf could be recognized, as not all of the body becomes Homo Lupus-just enough to survive. Clothing would be recognizable, and maybe even features on the face could be recognized although distorted.
You aren't going to talk your way out of that one. No chance, baby.
Once in a "safe" place, the Shift completes itself, creating the classic Werewolf...whose secret is now anything but a secret.
So, next time you come across a Werewolf bashing its head against a wall, you'll know why.

[Ansuru]

So, next time you come across a Werewolf bashing its head against a wall, you'll know why.

This image wins the day for me.

[Fyriewolf]

okay what if you see a werwolf shifting and it starts running towards you what should you do? and how is panic a shifting problem?

[RedEye]

One of the basic things about the Shift is that the Wulf is nearly helpless. They can't run! Their bodies are changing in a major way and movement would be extremely risky.

If I saw a Shifting Werewolf crawling toward me, I'd get a blanket and cover it, or put my coat over it to protect it.

But, then; that's me...

[Fyriewolf]

huh????? now that would be something my sister would do. me i would jsut sit, down, and stay.

[Rosiewolf]

huh????? now that would be something my sister would do. me i would jsut sit, down, and stay.

What RedEye is saying, is that when a Werewolf is shifting (to human or wolf, it doesn't matter), it would be impossible to run, because of the changing of the bon structure. And I think that part where he is saying that it is crawling and throwing a blanket over it means, that if the werewolf is changing, and is slowly crawling towards you, you can just put a blanket over its head (so it wouldn't see you) and then you could just run away..... Well I think that is what he is saying, I'm not very sure; just my interpretation.

[RedEye]

Okay: There is a Werewolf that is for some reason crawling toward me. Said wulf is shifting, partway through. This is a wulf in Trouble!

So: I'd cover them with a blanket, to keep the curious away, or cover them with my duster or my coat. I've given them privacy, a measure of safety, protection. If they can communicate, they may verbalize what's wrong. If not, I've still protected them, and given them a chance to complete their shift.
Even a wolf can understand that.

I happen to support Werewolves, by the way...