Dr. David Mech

[Doruk Golcu]

So, Dr. Mech, one of the most renowned wolf biologists in the world was in my university for a lecture. I got to spend a lot of time with him since I was the one who nominated him as a speaker and therefore got to organize most of event. Since our university is primarily composed of biologists (mostly lab biologists), we got to have some really interesting discussions. Now, too much was talked about to list here, but I will just write down one thing to give you an idea about the kind of subjects we talked about (this will get a bit wordy, so apologies):

Despite having popularized the view of the wolf pack as an alpha-to-omega hierarchical pecking order in his 1970 book (The Wolf: Ecology and Behavior of an Endangered Species), Dr. Mech today believes that this notion is outdated and in fact reflects the social structure of the wolf pack quite poorly. His belief is that the observations made on this kind of structure is an artificial observation born from the fact that pack structure was up to until very recently only studied in captive packs. Such packs were artificially created by humans by putting unrelated wolves in the same environment. In these cases, the wolves did indeed fall into a dominance-based interaction system. However, in the wild most wolves within a pack are related by blood, and do not really follow the same rules. In fact, apparently the 'alpha' wolves in a pack are dominant only in the sense that they are usually the parents of the most of the rest of the pack. This notion is supported by his observation that 'submissive' behavior displayed by omegas in captive packs actually mimmic the food-begging behavior of younger pups. He is advocating the use of the term 'breeder' in place of 'alpha' to emphasize the more familial structure of a natural wolf pack. Apparently, this is starting to catch on, at least among wolf biologists.

Interesting, huh? I can say it has been a very pleasant experience, despite all the headache of trying to organize it

[Silverclaw]

Sounds interesting. Does he have a website or a more recent book talking about all this? Or is it in his book, 'The Wolf: Ecology and Behavior of an Endangered Species'?

[Doruk Golcu]

He does have a website and also a newer book, titled Wolves: Behavior, Ecology, and Conservation.

[Silverclaw]

Thanks

[Lukas]

So, Dr. Mech, one of the most renowned wolf biologists in the world was in my university for a lecture. I got to spend a lot of time with him since I was the one who nominated him as a speaker and therefore got to organize most of event. Since our university is primarily composed of biologists (mostly lab biologists), we got to have some really interesting discussions. Now, too much was talked about to list here, but I will just write down one thing to give you an idea about the kind of subjects we talked about (this will get a bit wordy, so apologies):

Despite having popularized the view of the wolf pack as an alpha-to-omega hierarchical pecking order in his 1970 book (The Wolf: Ecology and Behavior of an Endangered Species), Dr. Mech today believes that this notion is outdated and in fact reflects the social structure of the wolf pack quite poorly. His belief is that the observations made on this kind of structure is an artificial observation born from the fact that pack structure was up to until very recently only studied in captive packs. Such packs were artificially created by humans by putting unrelated wolves in the same environment. In these cases, the wolves did indeed fall into a dominance-based interaction system. However, in the wild most wolves within a pack are related by blood, and do not really follow the same rules. In fact, apparently the 'alpha' wolves in a pack are dominant only in the sense that they are usually the parents of the most of the rest of the pack. This notion is supported by his observation that 'submissive' behavior displayed by omegas in captive packs actually mimmic the food-begging behavior of younger pups. He is advocating the use of the term 'breeder' in place of 'alpha' to emphasize the more familial structure of a natural wolf pack. Apparently, this is starting to catch on, at least among wolf biologists.

Interesting, huh? I can say it has been a very pleasant experience, despite all the headache of trying to organize it

it is indeed interesting, but did you also you do notice however that a new more common notion of the Omega is actually there a a sorta of a calmer down sorta role, basically they run around and act like a fool so that the others wolves in the pack do not come into conflict over food eating positions and such, in return the alpha grants the omega good pieces of meat from the kill, thus it it common that the omega is actually a high position in the wolf pack and not the lowest
for info read the book Spirit of the Wolf by Shaun Ellis and pictures by Monty Sloan, its not a long book but good info never the less

by the way if you google the book you might come across this a**holes article
http://www.heartofthewolf.org/SpiritOfHypocrisy.htm
this bastard takes one sentence out of the book and acts like the guy hates wolves, don't believe this bastard, buy the book

also took a little type to find this article
http://www.wolveswolveswolves.org/WhatAreWolves.htm

The Omega wolf plays a vital role. It bears the stress of the pack, kind of a scapegoat. Though it does take the abuse of the pack, it is an essential role, as the pack must find a way to relieve stress if the hunt is not successful, or if a pack member is angered or stressed for any other reason. As unbelievable as it sounds, the Omega finds comfort in it's position. The Omega is not always the weakest member of the pack. It is not unheard of for the Omega to rise to Alpha, even without stepping up through the pack!

[Doruk Golcu]

Actually, that notion of the omega has been around forever. The change in understanding that Dr. Mech advocates is that the omega position does NOT exist at all.

The problem here is that the notion of the pack hierarchy, including the ideas of alpha and omega wolves, has been in the popular literature about wolves for so long (Dr. Mech's old book is still in print, for example, and really popular), that it is very difficult for scientists now to go and say that they (the scientists) have been wrong about it, and this is how it really is instead.

And before you bring up Shaun Ellis, you must remember that he worked with CAPTIVE wolves. In captive wolf populations the pack hierarchy DOES exist, including the possible peacemaking role of omega.

But now I need to raise a point that I have raised before, and wasn't probably very popular. That point is this: Shaun Ellis is a hack. He is NOT a scientist, his methods are painfully unscientific, and his notions of his work with wolves is fraught with a sense of his own superiority over the wolf. My biggest pet peeve is his claim that he can teach captive wolves how to behave like wolves. Anyone who has read scientific literature about captive wolves released in the wild has a good notion that these wolves do not need to be taught anything, their behavior is instinctive, and they do fine without ANY human involvement, including successfully hunting large prey within few days of their release.

In fact, Dr. Mech told me that at least one major wolf organization that he is involved with is planning to publish an article criticizing National Geographic for broadcasting Ellis' movie under the umbrella of sound science.

Whew, and now I am done with my rabid Shaun Ellis bashing, commence with the flaming!!!

[RedEye]

Better not. Flaming's a no-no. Disagree nicely or THE PACK Alphas will bite.

[Midnight]

I can't be bothered flaming: it's too much of a waste of energy and it's a Monday. All I'll ask is this: have you actually watched the show yet? Because I remember that, back when you first started criticising him, you hadn't even seen it yet.

[Doruk Golcu]

Yes, I did.

[Blue-eyes in the dark]

Boy i wish i was there to at least hear what his exchanges were for every question.

[Doruk Golcu]

It was really very instructive. Besides that, he also had some rather funny anecdotes to tell about the goofy things wolves occasionally do.

[Lukas]

It was really very instructive. Besides that, he also had some rather funny anecdotes to tell about the goofy things wolves occasionally do.

like?

[Doruk Golcu]

Ow! That is a hard one... Lessee...

He studies wolves in a Arctic island, 200 miles from the North Pole. These wolves have never been exposed to humans (and associated dangers), therefore are much more comfortable around people. At one point early in the study, and when he was not sure just how comfortable the wolves were with humans, he was observing a pack from the top of a hill. The pack suddenly decides to move in his direction. He decides in turn to lay down flat on his face for ten minutes as they can pass him by without being spooked... He waits the full ten minutes, then lifts his face, only to come nose-to-nose with a wolf just looking at him from a few feet away. From that day on, he decides the pack can be observed from much closer without being bothered

[RedEye]

Ow! That is a hard one... Lessee...
He waits the full ten minutes, then lifts his face, only to come nose-to-nose with a wolf just looking at him from a few feet away. From that day on, he decides the pack can be observed from much closer without being bothered

"Oh, hello! Aren't you cold, lying down like that? By the way, what are you?

[Lukas]

so i started reading a different book from 1978 called "Of wolves and Men" by Barry Holstun Lopez, that is a good read for the time and to get started on the subject correct?