News story that will make you sick and ruin your day

[Berserker]

So be warned. I rarely get moved by atrocities, but this one got to me for some reason. The video especially.

EDIT: There's nothing gory or adult-rated here. Just a terrible story for animal lovers.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/15772093/detail.html

There's only one justice that I think is appropriate here. Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth...

[Teh_DarkJokerWolf]

So be warned. I rarely get moved by atrocities, but this one got to me for some reason. The video especially.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/15772093/detail.html

There's only one justice that I think is appropriate here. Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth...

Maybe next time if you thing something is offensive or could be give a short description so people know wat their about to look at. It doesn't bother me personally because I have seen plenty and each time I do I gather more hate for most of the human race...

[Blue-eyes in the dark]

Thats sickening, just morbidly wrong, (sorry if morbid is used out of context, but atm i could think of a better word)
The man needs more than an effing 2 years, and 3000 isn't enough. i agree Eye for an effing Eye.

[JoshuaMadoc]

Why would he do that to his own dog?

[RedEye]

He's sick. Take him out of the Gene-pool any way you can. The court can only sentence what the law prescribes.

Maybe there will be an animal lover in with him...

[Blue-eyes in the dark]

oh, i'm sure there will be. he'll be treated like how they treat pedophiles and rapists in prison.

[Baphnedia]

Wow. That's just sick.
Didn't ruin my day so much, but the dog will need dentures now... or survive on milk.

[Silent Hunter]

A sick act that should be punished harshly but doing anything akin to an eye for an eye (which we really do not need in a justice system) is just petty revenge. I'm sorry but its not going to magic the dogs teeth back. The dog is not going to feel some comfort out of doing that. Its just a kneejerk blood for blood reaction that really annoys me here. People seemed to let themselves get wound up. Sure its disgusting, sure its upsetting and angering but how the hell is wishing stuff on the person going to help? Is it going to help the dog now? No. Countering animal abuse WILL. Not wishing nasty fate X on abuser Y. The sad fact is some sadistic and depraved people will do this to animals. They do not value them like you do. Its no use getting stressed over it. Why don't you do something to stop this and change views? Plotting bloody murder on this person is not the right way to go, niether is quoting a phrase that is more of a way of getting back at someone then it is an effective benefit to society.

oh, i'm sure there will be. he'll be treated like how they treat pedophiles and rapists in prison.

One of resident "sadistic tough guy posts" eh? I am so glad you do not run any part of a justice system. Going off topic, do you think I would be a cruel person who saves criminals from what they deserve if I told you that I would make sure any abuse or rape would be stopped in a prison? Would you think I would be on side of the pondscum if I said I thought that prison is enough of a punishment and NOT all the abuse that comes through it and needs to be stopped? Would you think I would be mad if I wanted to apply this to this guy?

I do I gather more hate for most of the human race...

Yes, look at this from a black and white view. Remember kids, all humans are evil impure devil creatures who want to destroy the world and torture the poor poor pure animals. I understand that people can be arses but all of us? Every single human? Isnt that a bold generalization? So are gathering hatred to people who do good things in the world? Do they not exist? Even if you have not met any or say that they are a minority; would that fact matter? I know the brush can splatter but you seem stuck looking at everything negative.

[Berserker]

niether is quoting a phrase that is more of a way of getting back at someone then it is an effective benefit to society.

I believe the liberal justice system is a failure much worse than any eye-for-an-eye system could possibly be. In a country where 1 in 100 adults is in prison, maybe it would offer some benefit to society to revert to more "primitive" (although I don't believe in social progress) systems as they existed in many advanced pre-Humanist Indo-European societies.

In America, you can demonstrate total unwillingness to meaningfully participate in human civilization and yet carry on with little more than a slap on the wrist; a throwback to the push-pull of psychological dependence and need that defines egalitarianism.

Going off topic, do you think I would be a cruel person who saves criminals from what they deserve if I told you that I would make sure any abuse or rape would be stopped in a prison? Would you think I would be on side of the pondscum if I said I thought that prison is enough of a punishment and NOT all the abuse that comes through it and needs to be stopped? Would you think I would be mad if I wanted to apply this to this guy?

Only if you also agreed with our justice system prima facia, or thought our absolutist law interpretations and fine-oriented methods of social control are functioning in any way beneficial to society's overall mental or physical health.

This guy shouldn't be abused in prison. He shouldn't even be in prison, and he shouldn't have to pay a fine. He should just have half of his teeth ground down with a file. We're the most over-jailed country in the world, but crime rates are still high, and people still have no problems doing despicable things. Why is that, I wonder? Could it be that there's not a strong fear of punishment deterring people?

[Silent Hunter]

I believe the liberal justice system is a failure much worse than any eye-for-an-eye system could possibly be. In a country where 1 in 100 adults is in prison, maybe it would offer some benefit to society to revert to more "primitive" (although I don't believe in social progress) systems as they existed in many advanced pre-Humanist Indo-European societies.

"Lets do the time warp again!"

Do you ever think why there are 1 in 100 behind bars? Do you take into account the poverty of certain areas, social outlook, reasoning for the crimes or how many of what type of offender is in prison? I mean I doubt most of the 1 in 100 go down for murder, do they? People are in prison for all kinds of reasons which can be as simple as being caught with a drug (I am not condoning it but imo its nowhere near on the same scale as murder) to fraud to more heinous crimes like rape and murder. You can just assume that everyone is in prison for the same reason. Why don't you look at what factors are causing such high numbers to go to prison? Surely a high prison population indicates that there is a number of causes that have not been dealt with or lack of good measures to deter or put them back as functional contributer to society.

If we were to go with an eye for an eye I presume you want to beat up all who assault, torture those who torture kill those who kill. You want a "justice" system like a medevil country. You seem to want revenge instead of a fair punishment and a proper reintroduction back into society without question why they are there in the first place. Going back to that system would be a step backwards without question. You seem to treat humanism as a bad thing and those "indo-European societies would hang you for being gay and gave bugger all to human or animal rights. They are not your model societies. Oh and you must hate Europe's justice system.

In America, you can demonstrate total unwillingness to meaningfully participate in human civilization and yet carry on with little more than a slap on the wrist; a throwback to the push-pull of psychological dependence and need that defines egalitarianism.

For all you know he could be a model citizen apart from this. Do you think prison would be a slap on the wrist? To lose your income, job, freedom and get a criminal record? Is that a slap on the wrist?

Yes. But I would be more perplexed by anyone who agrees with our justice system prima facia, or who thinks our absolutist law interpretations and fine-oriented methods of social control are functioning in any way beneficial to society's overall mental or physical health.

So like a Russian doll you want a punishment inside a punishment. The justice system is the decider on what punishment you get and no one has any right to add more onto it. You would advocate torture by the sounds of it. Inmates should not bully other inmates. In my mind I would try my hardest to not let their crimes be known (though its near impossible). I would make sure that their are cameras everywhere and the slightest incident is reported and stopped. I despise any bullying and abuse inside prisons. Does that make me a bad person then? Does it make me a bad person, not to want more pain and suffering on the offender and not cry blood for blood. Which is what I am doing now. Instead of getting sucked into the hate and cries for vengeance and looking at this calmly. I am all for punishing this man but I will not want to step over the line.

[Renorei]

It's just a dog. If it had been a person, I would definitely say that this guy needs to go to jail for an extremely long time, or have his teeth filed down. But it's not a person. It's only a dog, and sorry, but dogs aren't as important as people. I'm not saying he shouldn't get punished, because he definitely should. But it should be nowhere near as severe as the punishment he would face if he harmed a human.

That dog will learn to adapt just fine, and I am sure his caretakers will make sure he gets all the nutrition he needs.

[Berserker]

Surely a high prison population indicates that there is a number of causes that have not been dealt with or lack of good measures to deter or put them back as functional contributer to society.

That's precisely my point. I believe modernity is the cause.

If we were to go with an eye for an eye I presume you want to beat up all who assault, torture those who torture kill those who kill. You want a "justice" system like a medevil country. You seem to want revenge instead of a fair punishment

Again you subscribe to a very modern understanding of justice versus revenge. Justice was revenge; the punishments were fair. But I digress. Ancient worldviews don't work in modernity; but then again, modernity doesn't work. The very fact that we're having a debate here is indicative that our society's concepts of justice and systems to administer justice are not powerful enough to be universally (or near-universally) accepted. That's what I'm talking about here: a directionless civilization and lack of wholism that results in cognitive dissonance for a vast portion of modern people. Countless dissenting voices arguing over what "works."

You seem to treat humanism as a bad thing

That's right.

and those "indo-European societies would hang you for being gay and gave bugger all to human or animal rights.

Because "rights" are artificial. There isn't a need for "rights" in a society driven by a need for that which makes sense in the context of a whole system, versus that which does not. For instance, there's only a need for animal rights when it becomes obvious that humanity has artificially elevated itself above nature, just as there's only a need for human rights when humans no longer feel elevated. Humanism created a social system that turns on itself.

For all you know he could be a model citizen apart from this. Do you think prison would be a slap on the wrist? To lose your income, job, freedom and get a criminal record? Is that a slap on the wrist?

Yes. Prison is a very bizarre and fairly recent concept.

So like a Russian doll you want a punishment inside a punishment. The justice system is the decider on what punishment you get and no one has any right to add more onto it.

No, precisely the opposite. Our justice system is exactly what Western society demands. I'm not positing that the demands could be different, but that the society could be different.

Inmates should not bully other inmates. In my mind I would try my hardest to not let their crimes be known (though its near impossible). I would make sure that their are cameras everywhere and the slightest incident is reported and stopped. I despise any bullying and abuse inside prisons.

Then get rid of the idea of "inmates." As I've already said, I think prison is a sham that accomplishes very little.

[Howlitzer]

Uh...wow....

ok, there's certain people who, when they do certain things that plop them in court, and it's 100% certain that they DID do it....it should go something like this:

(Judge, after hearing what the defendant did.)
"Uh....you did WHAT?! Ok...everybody stop."

*judge pulls handle out of gavel to reveal a hidden pistol*

>BANG!<

....

Judge: "Next!"

Maybe there will be an animal lover in with him...

maybe we could arrange to send an animal lover in there with him?

[Baphnedia]

Simple thing here:

The rate of those in the US that deal with incarceration in their life is somewhere between 2-3% (among the adult population). For prison, the rate at which criminals, once having served their sentence, return to prison for a new crime is roughly 70%. I'm going to borrow a little bit from Return To Honor to put things into scope:

The Justice Department's Bureau of Statistics reported
that 7.2 million men and women were in the U.S. adult
correctional population at the end of 2006.

This means that one in every 31 U.S. adults was in some form of either incarceration, parole, probation or other form of mandated supervision at the end of 2006.

"The national average for repeat crime (recidivism) is nearly 70%. Just a 10% reduction would be nearly 500,000 people.

For altruists, who want to save lives and futures, that's a lot of lives. For economists, who want to save money, that's a lot of money.

For all of us, that would be a huge step toward mending lives, families, and our communities creating not just a return, but a return to honor."

EDIT: If you want to make some sort of difference, I highly, highly recommend contacting Return to Honor to see how you can help. Because we feel passionately about our failing system of incarceration, I can tell by the flavor of the last few posts in this thread. It's not the only avenue through which you can help, but it is one I can vouch for.

[Dreamer]

Bezerker, I was just wondering, what do you mean by modernity and why do you hate it so much?

[Berserker]

[Anónimo Juan]

I fear what this topic is transforming into.

I really do