Zeitgeist: The Movie

[Morkulv]

I'm quite shocked that there isn't a topic about this at all, but here it goes.

Zeigeist: The Movie is a documentary that can be viewed on YouTube about the hypocrisy behind organized religion, and American politics. I do not wish to start some sort of political debate with this, but all I can say is just watch it. It has some very interesting points. My favorite part is the investigation in 9/11.

The link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kHhc67GopM

Its about 2 hours long as well, so it helps to be sure you've got nothing else to do for the next 2 hours.

Enjoy.

[Aki]

I've never seen it, but I've heard of it and it's probably all conspiracy theorist bullshit if it's got s*** on the WTC investigation.

Lemme consult google....

Aha, just as I thought..

Read that. It is made of sources and research, the recipe for delicious truthiness.

[Gevaudan]

When conspiracy theorists source other conspiracy theorists, I stop watching.

[Morkulv]

I never said it contained 'the truth' (duh, its a internetmovie), but I thought it had some interesting points, also concerning the recent moneycrisis. The weird site you provided didn't say much at all. If a movie doesn't have enough sources, then where are his? Lol.

[Aki]

I never said it contained 'the truth' (duh, its a internetmovie), but I thought it had some interesting points, also concerning the recent moneycrisis. The weird site you provided didn't say much at all. If a movie doesn't have enough sources, then where are his? Lol.

The recent money crisis is easily traceable to a number of things that don't include conspiracies that I won't get into so as to not drag this too far off in the direction of the bailout.

And the site I provided said quite a bit. It links to it's sources as it refutes each point. Unless you are (as I did for about 30 seconds) missing the table-of-contents located to the left that links to each page of the point-by-point refutation.

Also what interesting points? What's interesting if you don't see a glint of truth in it or are posting to go, "this is silly. Let us laugh at these people."

[outwarddoodles]

http://www.revisionism.nl/Moon/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm

[Morkulv]

http://www.revisionism.nl/Moon/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm

Hilarious. If you make a duckie-joke with it it would probably get more laughs.

Aki: maybe its because the word "debunked" that gives me such a nasy aftertaste because of the Ghosthunters-show. The thing that I found interesting about the movie were the voice-clips.

[Kaebora]

Zeitgeist is a hoax. That's the summary of my thoughts. People that have pushed this movie into the limelight refuse to discuss any remote possibility that it is false information. I'd say 90% of it is. So with this post I conclude any further debate on my end. I've debated it to death already, and the opposing side never gives in even a little, dispite how much I try to reach a common ground. It's a futile discussion.

It is wise to question one's own government. It is unwise to do so without making an effort to seek out the facts. It's basically propaganda when you profit from misinformation.

[Aki]

http://www.revisionism.nl/Moon/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm

Hilarious. If you make a duckie-joke with it it would probably get more laughs.

Aki: maybe its because the word "debunked" that gives me such a nasy aftertaste because of the Ghosthunters-show. The thing that I found interesting about the movie were the voice-clips.

Never seen Ghosthunters but I don't see what's wrong with the word debunked. There's a difference between ghosts and claims of conspiracy.

[RedEye]

Zeitgeist is a hoax. That's the summary of my thoughts. People that have pushed this movie into the limelight refuse to discuss any remote possibility that it is false information. I'd say 90% of it is. So with this post I conclude any further debate on my end. I've debated it to death already, and the opposing side never gives in even a little, dispite how much I try to reach a common ground. It's a futile discussion.

It is wise to question one's own government. It is unwise to do so without making an effort to seek out the facts. It's basically propaganda when you profit from misinformation.

People arguing from a position of no knowledge or research tend to do that. If they concede one single point, their whole thesis falls apart.

[Teh_DarkJokerWolf]

Glad someone was bold enough to post this. I wanted to but did not. I saw this last year sometime and I cried admitted at the 9/11 section. I believe alot of what is said in the documentary was fact, but some things of things were stretched too. When it comes to things like this conspiracies and all alot of people aren't going to believe it just because there is just no way people could be so horrible and do such things. When I hear people say that I just tell em to think about 9/11 and the Oaklahoma City bombing. There are many more things I could mention that would have me saying"If people could do this, why should this be any different?" That is how come things like this happen because no one wants to believe someone could do it. That is why these things will keep happening until people get their heads out of their A$$es and realize that this is REAL.

[Uniform Two Six]

The recent money crisis is easily traceable to a number of things that don't include conspiracies that I won't get into so as to not drag this too far off in the direction of the bailout.

Normally I don't go in for the conspiracy theories, but here's one I do believe in:

Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac began writing mortgages to millions of people who could not afford to pay them off because they could get AIG to insure them and make it profitable for them to suck what they could out of the housing bubble and screw the rest (since they were going to get paid one way or the other). Then they sold those "sub-prime" mortgages to AIG who repackaged them as "securitized" investments, also known as credit-default-swaps. AIG then sold the repackaged horses**t on the market to all kinds of other investors who had no clue which of the mortgages were good and which were not, but bought AIG's assurances that they were sufficiently diversified investments, enough so that Wachovia and Bank of America were willing to buy this cr*p. Then they sold investment insurance on the credit default swaps, theoretically "securitizing" them further, and buying them back so that they could re-repackage the now (theoretically) more valuable investment packages. Then they sold the re-repackaged swaps, and... (wait for it)... SOLD INSURANCE POLICIES ON THE STUFF AGAIN!!! Theoretically "securitizing" the assets even further and proceeding to repeat the whole process again and again. They felt entirely comfortable doing this because:

A. Glass-Steigal had been repealed under the Clinton Administration, and made all this legal.
and
B. The SEC, which might otherwise have stepped in, was effectively de-fanged by the neo-conservatives because their guy was in the White House!

The last I heard, the SEC had managed to uncover one of these legalized Ponzi schemes AIG was running, and had revealed seven iterations of this cycle, and they were working on uncovering number eight. Oh, yeah, I almost forgot the best part: Nobody at AIG had to worry about getting caught (and not just because this had actually been made legal), because AIG is too major for the Feds to allow it to fail, so instead of carting all the bozos off to prison for running the entire planet into what may turn out to be a second Great Depression, we've given them something like $200,000,000,000 dollars more, and still counting!!!

Fanny Mae, Freddy Mac, and AIG. Now, that's a conspiracy.

[Aki]

Glad someone was bold enough to post this. I wanted to but did not. I saw this last year sometime and I cried admitted at the 9/11 section. I believe alot of what is said in the documentary was fact, but some things of things were stretched too. When it comes to things like this conspiracies and all alot of people aren't going to believe it just because there is just no way people could be so horrible and do such things. When I hear people say that I just tell em to think about 9/11 and the Oaklahoma City bombing. There are many more things I could mention that would have me saying"If people could do this, why should this be any different?" That is how come things like this happen because no one wants to believe someone could do it. That is why these things will keep happening until people get their heads out of their A$$es and realize that this is REAL.

Personally, I think the 9/11 conspiracy theories emerged because of how horrible the thought that some folks from across the ocean want to kill us just for the way we live our lives is. That it'd be easier for people to go "No, the government's bad, just like we always thought!" because that somehow made more sense than this group of people that hates us so deeply that they'd kill so much without a twinge of conscious.

But all the theories I've heard on it make no sense, because they all fall apart once you poke them hard enough with the right questions.

Fanny Mae, Freddy Mac, and AIG. Now, that's a conspiracy.

As far as conspiracies do, that one's rather believable. It's got a clear and logical goal (money and lots of it) and is less dark shady conspiracy theory crap and more like actual real-world conspiracies that have already happened.

[Uniform Two Six]

As far as conspiracies do, that one's rather believable. It's got a clear and logical goal (money and lots of it) and is less dark shady conspiracy theory crap and more like actual real-world conspiracies that have already happened.

Yeah, the sarcasm might have been a little too subtle, but this is the stuff the SEC is actually investigating. I'm astounded that you don't hear much about this in the media, while the Bernie Madoff scandal gets all kind of play. That little snot stole a mere fifty bilion dollars. This garbage AIG, Bear Stearns, Fanny Mae, (and several others) were all involved in sucked at least a trillion dollars out of the economy (nobody's entirely sure what the eventual bill will be -- hence the SEC investigation). At least a trillion dollars, and likely much more, simply disappeared into Switzerland and the Cayman Islands. The problem seems to be that even the people at the Treasury Department don't really have a good grasp on exactly how these credit default swaps worked. This is probably going to wind up being the greatest single swindle in human history. What's even more astounding is that in all likelihood, we'll never find out exactly how many people were involved, how much was stolen, how it was stolen, or where it went. All that money has quite simply vanished off the face of the earth.

[Teh_DarkJokerWolf]

Personally, I think the 9/11 conspiracy theories emerged because of how horrible the thought that some folks from across the ocean want to kill us just for the way we live our lives is. That it'd be easier for people to go "No, the government's bad, just like we always thought!" because that somehow made more sense than this group of people that hates us so deeply that they'd kill so much without a twinge of conscious.

But all the theories I've heard on it make no sense, because they all fall apart once you poke them hard enough with the right questions.

But then again people are the same way about our government and not believing "Our people" could never do anything to hurt their own. I mean that's how it is until someone gets hurt, but then people are still just too stubborn to see it. I mean it's all about power. It is seen everyday with our own economy. Look how many people are homeless. Why is that? Greed by other those with power screws lower class and mid class folks. Sure it is not on as serious of a basis as 9/11 but it is harmful. People starve to death in this country too. Why? Because no one wants to help. Those who can help won't. There are rich folks, but they choose to fend for themselves.

See those with power have a choice. They can make a difference. Good or Bad. Just looks around you. Look where alot of people are at today. I know many people homeless now because of the economy. Why are we repeating history again? Because of how man is with everything. No I am not saying all man, but look how destructive this is to people. People who are not openminded to other possibilites are the ones that are going to be in trouble when it all comes to light. Regardless of what happens in the future I am staying open to any and everything.

[Aki]

Personally, I think the 9/11 conspiracy theories emerged because of how horrible the thought that some folks from across the ocean want to kill us just for the way we live our lives is. That it'd be easier for people to go "No, the government's bad, just like we always thought!" because that somehow made more sense than this group of people that hates us so deeply that they'd kill so much without a twinge of conscious.

But all the theories I've heard on it make no sense, because they all fall apart once you poke them hard enough with the right questions.

But then again people are the same way about our government and not believing "Our people" could never do anything to hurt their own. I mean that's how it is until someone gets hurt, but then people are still just too stubborn to see it. I mean it's all about power. It is seen everyday with our own economy. Look how many people are homeless. Why is that? Greed by other those with power screws lower class and mid class folks. Sure it is not on as serious of a basis as 9/11 but it is harmful. People starve to death in this country too. Why? Because no one wants to help. Those who can help won't. There are rich folks, but they choose to fend for themselves.

See those with power have a choice. They can make a difference. Good or Bad. Just looks around you. Look where alot of people are at today. I know many people homeless now because of the economy. Why are we repeating history again? Because of how man is with everything. No I am not saying all man, but look how destructive this is to people. People who are not openminded to other possibilites are the ones that are going to be in trouble when it all comes to light. Regardless of what happens in the future I am staying open to any and everything.

But there is no logical reason for the 9/11 conspiracy. They all seem to hinge on the idea that everyone involved is totally Snidely-Whiplash level evil who will do it for evil's sake. That's the thing that makes it so unbelievable that the government would do it.

Not to mention that the Taliban was already planning the attack, nullifying any reason for them to get involved even if they had a logical reason. Because, hey, if your conspiracy revolves around downing some buildings and this terrorist org is already plotting that, there's no need for you to do anything other than kick back and watch.

[Midnight]

.

[Uniform Two Six]

There are certainly valid questions to be asked about 9/11 - was the Government warned in advance? why were members of the ringleader's family allowed to leave the United States in the days immediately following?

Even that's a bit much for me. Was the United States aware of impending terrorist action?

Answer: Yes.

The problem is with the question. What part of the government was aware? In retrospect, the various agencies probably had enough parts of the picture collectively to get some clue of what was going to go down, but individually those puzzle-pieces looked to be just background noise. The United States Government is an enormous labarynthine entity whose constituent tendrils almost never talk to each other. Even the intelligence services suffer from this problem. Organizations like the NSA and the CIA act like enormous vacum cleaners, sucking up tremendous amounts of raw data. Making sense of this avalanche of information overload is a daunting task, complicated by the fact that once potential terrorists are inside the United States, it is actually illegal for intelligence agencies to spy upon them.

It's like the Pearl Harbor conspiracy theory. Did the United States know the attack was coming? Of course they did. Problem was that "they" were intelligence people who were so concerned with operational security that usable warnings trickled out so slowly that they were entirely useless to the subordinate commanders in the line of fire. The entire argument is preposterous when an historian looks at the evidence, because what the conspiracy nuts ignore is that Clark Field (under MacArthur's USAFFE Command) had a full eight hours of warning after Pearl Harbor was attacked, and they were still caught with their planes on the ground and their thumbs up their a**.

It's all part of the same problem. Nobody was really expecting the sky to fall on their watch, and as such, nobody was as prepared as hindsight dictated they should have been. It's not conspiracy, it's complacency.

[Morkulv]

http://www.revisionism.nl/Moon/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm

Hilarious. If you make a duckie-joke with it it would probably get more laughs.

Aki: maybe its because the word "debunked" that gives me such a nasy aftertaste because of the Ghosthunters-show. The thing that I found interesting about the movie were the voice-clips.

Never seen Ghosthunters but I don't see what's wrong with the word debunked. There's a difference between ghosts and claims of conspiracy.

Well, its a overused word in the show Ghosthunters. Its on Sci-Fi channel.
/offtopic