Golden Wolf on TV

[Terastas]

Now for the record, I am perfectly aware that there is a difference between being "therian" and being "furry." However, I really do find it uncanny how much the two groups have in common with each other.

Usually when I pose such questions on forums, I get scolded for "not understanding" and "not accepting things" and other weird stuff.

That's probably owed to the fact that therian communities are frequently bombarded by trolls etc., and one of the most common trolling techniques is to pose as a "clueless newb" that will ridicule them mercilessly with the defense that they are "just curious." In other words, they probably would take the time to explain it for you if they weren't sick of being asked that.

Somebody once said that if you ask ten furs what it means to be furry, you'll get a dozen answers. I imagine the same could be true of therianthropy.

Like it or not; therianthropy has become more and more of a trend these days, and like any trend it is filled with people who just want to stand out, and if you pose a question about his/her believes you usually get a agressive reaction.

This, however, is absolutely correct. Half of the problem with misinformation about internet subcultures like furry, therianthropy, otherkin, etc. is that people may start associating with said subculture because of that misinformation. Now for every one honest-to-God therian, there are a hundred more that just use the term "therian" as a status symbol; something they can use to make themselves feel like they're better than everyone else around them.

Still, it's not like any other spiritual movements do not have their fair share of pretenders. The only difference is that the lunatics of mainstream religions tend to get disregarded as being contrary to the cause, whereas the lunatics of underground and/or Internet subcultures tend to get paraded around front and center. You'd object if I called Fred Phelps or Heidi and Spencer the true face(s) of Christianity, so why should the snobby emo coffee shop poet serve to represent Therianthropy?

Matt. . . *shudder* You know, I probably would have responded the exact same way. Then again, I saw Akira for the first time when I was eight years old, so at the same time, I don't think I can really relate either. I think it pertains more to my rants about the misconception that cartoons are strictly for children (which my dad had, which is how I got to watch Akira at that age) than it would anything I could say about furry/therians, but I think the lesson there would be that furries, like animation, are not capable of being represented by a single case example.

All I could think to add would be that the misconceptions are enforced on both sides. On one hand, you've got people like the sicko that drew the Disney/Bluth porn. It's my honest assessment that some people aren't exactly furries but associate with the fandom anyway because it's comforting to think there's an entire community of people that are just as sick in the head as they are. I don't think that guy actually believed you were into furry porn -- he just wanted to believe you were so he wouldn't be the only one.

But on the other hand, you've got the upper classmen that also made the immediate leap to the furry association and were quick to tell you all the most horrible horror stories imaginable about them. I wouldn't assume they necessarily believed it either, but I would assume that they wanted to believe it. What I'd assume about them is that they also perpetuated all the misconceptions about furry so that people will keep getting fired for being furry (one artist fired for being a furry is one less artist they'll have to compete with later). It goes both ways, so don't ever believe what you hear.

I wouldn't know, but I assume therians have similar problems: people on the inside trying to convince everyone that therianthropy is whatever the hell they wish it was, and people on the outside trying to convince everyone that therianthropy is whatever they think will help forward their careers.

[Morkulv]

[Silverclaw]

It's not just that incident. I didn't want to be perceived as a furry because of my job. I know of many people who have been fired from their jobs for being associated with furry fandom.

I'd rather stay employed.

Really? Was it just because the boss found out that they like things like anthro art? Or because they were acting weird at the workplace (wearing ears/tail, looking at porn on the computers/ ect)?


Just liking furry art and it being your hobby in your spare time does not seem like a valid reason to be fired. What you like to do in your spare time(like going to a furry con) is nobodys business but your own.

[MattSullivan]

Usually it's just the topic. People seem to associate furry with one thing. Erotica. Now, I'm not opposed to erotica, I've even drawn it on several occasions. But when animals are involved ( even half human ones ) it makes people uncomfortable. ( generally )

Again, just reiterating that the first impression of something is often the one that sticks. In this case, most people's impressions of furry fandom is dirty art. Thanks to the internet of course. There's very few filters for this kind of thing. If a kid goes online and wants to find pictures of Ratchet and Clank, he's likely to hit a dirty drawing before he hits an actual studio-related photo. ( depending on whether or not the safe search is disabled )

You know I'm right. ( But I'm not trying to point out that people who like erotic art are bad people. But there are people who DO think that way )

[Silverclaw]

*sighs*
That is depressing. I'd hate to be judged like that just based purely on negative sterotypes.
Whenever I get a nice job I'll have to be sure to hide the fact that I like anthro stuff

[Terastas]

If a kid goes online and wants to find pictures of Ratchet and Clank, he's likely to hit a dirty drawing before he hits an actual studio-related photo. ( depending on whether or not the safe search is disabled )

You know I'm right. ( But I'm not trying to point out that people who like erotic art are bad people. But there are people who DO think that way )

Well. . . That's probably exaggerating a little much. I actually tried it just to see what you meant, even narrowed down my searches by including "art," "drawings," and yes, even "erotic" in the search bar, and the only thing I found was one of those stupid "teabagging" screen grabs from a different game completely.

There are rules about what can and cannot be posted where on the Internet. The problem is that the only real defense against unwanted attention that most furries have is the use of legal disclaimers. Furry erotica is easy to find because it's always clearly labeled., Finding it completely by accident, however, is almost impossible (really, even fchan has content warnings).

I think the fabled "easy access" is just another part of that furry-trolling formula. That is another favorite guise of trollers everywhere: the "concerned parent" act. Mind you, I'm not saying the fandom doesn't have problems; just that all the problems you could probably think of have been and are being intentionally blown out of proportion.

I kind of have to disagree with you about first impressions, however. People do often take their first impressions seriously, but when it comes to something out of the ordinary like the furry and/or therian communities, I think the more common response is to go "what the crap?" and look/wait for a second opinion.

That's more or less what happened when the CSI: Las Vegas episode came out: at a furry website I used to frequent (don't anymore because I had issues with one of the admins), several people actually cited that episode as their awakening. Not necessarily because it was accurate; on the contrary, they thought it was so horrendous they had to look it up and see for itself how accurate it really was.

Of course, there were also some other newly-registered users that were disappointed to learn we weren't all as sick-in-the-head as the furries shown in the CSI episode were. Like I said earlier, information may start off as false, but it can attract a following about whom the information will be true. If you tell everyone that furry is a fandom for perverts, the perverts will eventually start showing up.

[MattSullivan]

I'd rather be known as an animator than a furry because furry has a negative connotation to it. Just an animator who used to like drawing animal themed art.

[Chris]

It's not just that incident. I didn't want to be perceived as a furry because of my job. I know of many people who have been fired from their jobs for being associated with furry fandom.

I hear a lot of conflicting statements about things like this. "People get fired because they're associated with the furry fandom". Yet we have people like Timothy Albee who's quite involved in the furry fandom, yet works on things like Babylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica.. or Rwolf who worked on the Sci-Fi show Sanctuary, even though he draws adult furry stuff (and is quite easy to track down his real name).. or Dragoneer (the owner of FurAffinity, and also draws adult furry stuff) has worked in big-budget animation. These people do not hide their furry stuff. Dragoneer himself has also talked about this, where he used to hide his adult furry stuff, but stopped hiding it when he found that employers really didn't care that he drew it.

It just leaves me all when I hear that "people get fired" over being associated with the fandom, and also that "employers don't care" that people draw furry porn, and have examples where people who are openly associated with the fandom have worked on some big-budget stuff.

[PariahPoet]

*sighs*
That is depressing. I'd hate to be judged like that just based purely on negative sterotypes.
Whenever I get a nice job I'll have to be sure to hide the fact that I like anthro stuff

Not necessarily. My boss and all my coworkers know that I'm furry and think it's great. They even let me wear ears and a tail to work at Halloween. You just have to make a good impression before they have a chance to hear about all the stupid negative stereotypes.

[Terastas]

*sighs*
That is depressing. I'd hate to be judged like that just based purely on negative sterotypes.
Whenever I get a nice job I'll have to be sure to hide the fact that I like anthro stuff

Not necessarily. My boss and all my coworkers know that I'm furry and think it's great. They even let me wear ears and a tail to work at Halloween. You just have to make a good impression before they have a chance to hear about all the stupid negative stereotypes.

What kind of job do you have?

I don't think all workplaces are like that, but I imagine that in Matt's line of work, his employers are much more image-conscious and his co-workers much more cutthroat/competitive.

Still. . . You know, if drawing anthros at all makes you sick in the head, then Walt Disney, Don Bluth, and all the other great animators of the 20th century were as sick as they come. Usually I'm not one to encourage slangs or stereotypes, but I consider it fair game to throw them right back at the people that perpetuate them (I'm not homophobic, but I won't think twice about telling Fred Phelps to "get back in the closet"). If somebody asks if you're a furry, don't defend yourself; just tell them they're sick and/or you're not interested and go back to whatever you were doing.

I've never had to try it with furry before, but it has worked with everything else I've ever been accused of being.

[PariahPoet]

I work at a coffeeshop and as of today am a professional mascot on weekends. :3

No, I'm not saying that a lawyer should wear a tail to court. I'm just pointing out that some places are ok with hobbies.
I've worked there for quite a few years now and they have become good friends, so I'm comfortable sharing my interests with them. I've brought my suits to show them and they are very supportive. They know that there are some creeps in the fandom, but they know me and know that I'm not into that, so it's not a problem.

Ter brought up a good point and something that annoys me with other furries is they talking about "coming out" to their families about their furry-ness. That is perfectly ridiculous. Unless it's a fetish for you personally, it's nothing to be ashamed of. Treating it like some big secret just makes people assume it's something creepy and weird.

I don't hide anything from anybody. Any of my family or friends can see my costumes and my art because I have nothing that needs to be locked away. I think it would help the fandom if people would show off their clean artwork instead of hiding it away.

[Morkulv]

It's not just that incident. I didn't want to be perceived as a furry because of my job. I know of many people who have been fired from their jobs for being associated with furry fandom.

I'd rather stay employed.

Really? Was it just because the boss found out that they like things like anthro art? Or because they were acting weird at the workplace (wearing ears/tail, looking at p*** on the computers/ ect)?


Just liking furry art and it being your hobby in your spare time does not seem like a valid reason to be fired. What you like to do in your spare time(like going to a furry con) is nobodys business but your own.

This reminds me of something I saw on TV over here. There was this program where couples have to convince a jury to be good parents. One couple brought in 2 dolls dressed like children, and they made them talk in front of the jury. Alot of viewers immediately thought that the couple was crazy and before you know it, they are voted out. The truth is however that this particular couple isn't crazy at all, but they were just big fans of dolls and they even had their own store with it. This is to show how "weird/crazy" people can seem while they are in fact just regular people with a hobby. I know its not a entirely proper example, but still.

[Terastas]

This reminds me of something I saw on TV over here. There was this program where couples have to convince a jury to be good parents. One couple brought in 2 dolls dressed like children, and they made them talk in front of the jury. Alot of viewers immediately thought that the couple was crazy and before you know it, they are voted out. The truth is however that this particular couple isn't crazy at all, but they were just big fans of dolls and they even had their own store with it. This is to show how "weird/crazy" people can seem while they are in fact just regular people with a hobby. I know its not a entirely proper example, but still.

You know. . . I have to say in response to this that, while it's perfectly okay to have an unusual hobby, I would consider it odd to parade it around in front of everyone and expect them to even understand it, much less accept it, without any form of introduction whatsoever. Did they at least start by saying "We love dolls, they're our livelihood, we make and/or buy and sell them for a living" before leaping into their ventriloquist act?

First thing I thought of when I read that was Jeff Dunham talking about how he makes his three daughters' Barbie dolls talk when his wife isn't watching: "Ken, you smell like beer and cigarettes." All this, of course, being said to an audience that already knows he's a professional ventriloquist.

Also when I was reading that, I had a flashback of when I was in junior high and took a class where I had to act as a mentor/tutor to a kindergartner. First thing the kid asked me was "What's your favorite ship?" I guessed 'Enterprise' at first, then confessed that I wasn't really all that familiar with his subject: he laughed at me like he thought I was joking. I know he was just a kid, but he still thought ships were so awesome that he couldn't understand somebody not wanting to know everything there is to know about them.

In fact, come to think of it, I don't even remember if we ever got each others' names. All he ever talked about was those damn ships.

Me personally, I don't talk about my hobbies, furry-related or otherwise, because I know how agonizing it is when my dad talks about model trains.

So. . . I guess my point is that, while it's perfectly healthy to have an unusual hobby, I would consider it an unhealthy obsession if you think it's so amazingly cool that you have to introduce it to everyone else. If you're saying "I like. . ." before "Hello, my name is. . ." that means something's wrong.

[Uniform Two Six]

That's more or less what happened when the CSI: Las Vegas episode came out: at a furry website I used to frequent

Christ. I hope nobody ever publicizes this site. We'll get nothing but flamers for three months straight.

[Terastas]

That's more or less what happened when the CSI: Las Vegas episode came out: at a furry website I used to frequent

Christ. I hope nobody ever publicizes this site. We'll get nothing but flamers for three months straight.

You mean it hasn't been? I thought Anthony / Calypso Blue had dropped our name like a million times already.

[Berserker]

That's more or less what happened when the CSI: Las Vegas episode came out: at a furry website I used to frequent

Christ. I hope nobody ever publicizes this site. We'll get nothing but flamers for three months straight.

Right now, there really isn't too much reason for people to flame The Pack's Den. But that's part of the reason why I have zero tolerance for people who come on here claiming to be real werewolves, for example. I don't want us to turn into alt.horror.werewolves... I don't want us to be a therian forum or a furry forum or whatever. We are not that.

[Uniform Two Six]

We are not that.

Heh. Yet.

[Moonwatcher]

Intresting.........

[Morkulv]

We are not that.

Heh. Yet.

If this forum becomes either a furry or a therian hang-out I will be leaving asap. Not to offend therians or furry's, but the ammount of retard kiddies in both groups are rather awfull. And by that I mean people who post stuff like this:

"OMGz!1 yesturday i had a dream abouta wolf!! iT was So Cool and cuTE an I no its my totomanimul foshure!!!11 d^_^b"

[PariahPoet]

Mork- I have to agree. That is why I left werespace. Too many Twilight w0lfies.
I don't really hang out in therian communities for that very reason. I usually end up finding therian friends in the general population rather than the "designated areas".

[Morkulv]

Thats the downside of the internet I think. When certain communities get increasingly more popular they attract trolls, or people who simply want to get in for the attention so to speak.

[Terastas]

Thats the downside of the internet I think. When certain communities get increasingly more popular they attract trolls, or people who simply want to get in for the attention so to speak.

Actually, we've already had some of that. A couple of months after Devoured had become Freeborn and the trailer was released, we got an influx of newly-registered users that didn't even get double-digits for their post counts before they were all demanding to know when their Pack pendants would come and/or begging Anthony to let them audition (my favorite was the kid who asked if Anthony would consider filming in Norway so he could audition).

Mercifully, they didn't stick around for very long. So while I think it's inevitable that therians and/or Twilight fans will try to hijack the Pack (I've seen some of that too, in fact), I think most of them will get upset when we don't all validate their opinions and either post tantrum topics about how we all suck, or spam up the forum trying to get a post count they can use to bluff being a veteran authority and get banned for it.

There's a video online in which a member of Anonymous describes how their forums work: anything is permitted, but good ideas tend to survive while bad ideas fade away from lack of activity. That's more or less how a message board like the Pack works; the trolls will only get away with as much as those who got there first (IE: us) are willing to permit.

[Berserker]

Maybe somebody somewhere has already answered this. But how come there are so many foxes, wolves, bears, tigers, dragons, *insert other favorite animal here* within the therian community? Where are the giraffes, aardvarks, hippogryfs, and other more obscure animals? That's another thing which raises a red flag for me.

A couple of months after Devoured had become Freeborn and the trailer was released, we got an influx of newly-registered users that didn't even get double-digits for their post counts before they were all demanding to know when their Pack pendants would come and/or begging Anthony to let them audition (my favorite was the kid who asked if Anthony would consider filming in Norway so he could audition).

That's somewhat understandable, actually. I wouldn't necessarily call that trolling. The Freeborn trailer was like every werewolf fan's wet dream come true, and people couldn't help themselves. (Exaggerating, but you get the point.)

[sugarpoultry]

I love Goldenwolf and her art, but... that made me question her sanity.

[PariahPoet]

Maybe somebody somewhere has already answered this. But how come there are so many foxes, wolves, bears, tigers, dragons, *insert other favorite animal here* within the therian community? Where are the giraffes, aardvarks, hippogryfs, and other more obscure animals? That's another thing which raises a red flag for me.

*waves a silver paw*
I'm a jaguarundi, it doesn't get much more obscure than that! :3

That's actually a hot topic within the community itself. The popular theory is that therians often first associate themselves with werewolves since it's the closest well-known topic even if it is fiction. People are also more familiar with these animals, so more likely to notice that their thoughts and behaviors resemble those of an animal they have experience with. How many people actually know anything about what a scorpion feels and could accurately identify similarities in themselves? Then there is also the aforementioned group of kiddies following the trend because they think it's cool, so they try to portray themselves as "cool" animals without ever doing any soul-searching to determine if they even are therian at all.