Yeah it can so pretty much the rest of your post falls through.AA wrote: Can love be explained using the Scientific Method? Attraction can... desire can... but can actual LOVE. So based upon your understanding of the world, love isn't real either.
Testable proof that is verifiable. I can now envision the "What if he exists outside our version of the universe and understanding?". Well OK, that is a fair question but now you basically admitted that your own proponant for such a God is (in Xianity's sense) a 2000 year old book written by men who probably did not get past 50 which has been altered so many times. I guess If I have a pink unicorn and have scripture for it then I can have as much respect as most religions. I mean hey, you cannot disprove me.What proof would you need to prove God exists?
I am only saying it is a golden mean fallacy as that's what it is:Howl wrote: In response to your comments on agnosticism as being an irrational "golden mean fallacy"....I find this offensive. How is it irrational, or a fallacy, that I support logical analysis (i.e. the scientific method) of the observable universe, yet acknowledge that we cannot make conclusions of the unobservable?
If the existence of a deity outside the observable universe is unobservable currently... and remember, theoretically the currently observable universe is only the tip of the iceberg.... then you cannot prove the existence of ANYTHING in that realm by scientific method. This includes proving AND disproving the existence of any thing you could consider a higher power. Thus pretending to know either way is the irrational view if we're going to pull that card.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacie ... round.html
It fits like a glove. You see two extremes and you go for the middle one as the most reasonable.
Besides I will again say that most "proof" that god exists is either A. Not proof at all. B. From some sort of holy book written by HUMANS. C. Is so vague that it can be anyone's guess. Again, I have a pink unicorn and it cannot be disproved as it's beyond our understanding. I guess agnostics would have to respect it as they cannot disprove it and there may always be a chance I am right. See why I find it irrational?
Twas a joke but whatever.Please try to not accuse religious folk of beastiality. That's just low. This is blatantly offensive, and will lead to flaming.
Sorry, I was a bit too broad in saying American, a lot of countries have bias but things with Heritage in when trying to prove things often do. It was just a warning.This comment is completely unnecessary for anything except insulting my country and instigating an argument.
@UTS: Your post is basically like Howls so see my comments to Howlitzer.
Massive generalization there mate. You will get a lot of 14 year old agnst atheists but that is natural. Teenagers will often to cling to certain things. This does not weaken what Atheism is. On top of that it still has meaning even if not direct. For example Tony Blair, our last PM was afraid to admit he had prayed with Bush. This has showed progress in the fact that no one wants someone strong with the church in power here. We have had atheist bus campaigns too. Maybe it's weaker in the US (No surprise) but it's strong and people are using it for more than something to whine about on LJ.Ter wrote:Atheism is to organized religion what anarchy is to organized government; a title that could have had significant meaning, but which is tragically adopted instead as an outlet for feelings of angst or to validate any feelings of egocentricity or resentment towards order and authority.
Generalizations just keep coming. A lot of Atheists resent organised religion for various reasons. Some see it as irrational, soem see them as crooked morally bankrupt organizations (IE the Catholic Church). Many Atheists can live fine with religious people anyway. I mean my mum is a Catholic but I respect her and don;t hold her faith against her. You will get some teen- theists but as said, Teens will jump on anything that they want to belong to and that can include religion.In other words, a lot of atheists are not believers in the true absence of higher powers but instead just hold deep feelings of resentment towards organized (or even structured) religion of any kind. The very fact that we have to debate whether or not Atheism counts as a religion at all might suffice to indicate such.
Also I am amazed that you are using proof of a web debate as an example about how atheists hate religion. People will debate how a imaginary creatures foot works, the workings of a man in politics, Star Wars vs Star Trek and this is the one you use as proof? People online will argue about anything and this is a rather good example of this.
And for the record, Atheism does count as a religion. Religion is a product of faith, and faith is the belief in things without proof. Christians believe in the existence of God, while Atheists believe in the lack thereof. Neither the existence nor nonexistence can be proven, therefore believing in either can only be done as an act of faith.
Actually your getting it totally wrong as your mangling faith and belief. Christians have faith in god which is trust while atheists believe there is not god which is an opinion/conviction. I believe that the sun will rise again tomorrow, the sky can be blue and the moon can be yellow. Does that mean that I have faith in those things? Does that mean it is part of a a religion?
No offence but your coming off really thick headed with this.
Pray tell how did you come to that conclusion.No offense Morkulv, but all you've effectively done is played right into my assessment that atheists tend to be more anti-establishment than believers. When I said "Atheism = religion," that wasn't supposed to be an insult.
Or maybe his talking people that will botch many Scientific laws not just limited to evolution and who will try and say that the world was made in 6 days? I don't think it's much to say that most people are better then they are, regardless of faith.What's more, this is your thread Morkulv. Did it ever occur to you that maybe you get no respect as an atheist because people might be getting the impression that you're using atheism to pretend you're different -- maybe even better -- than they are?
Oh wow. Are you implying that he has to respect a load of Scientifically illiterate, sheltered morons who will often use the tricks Mov described? Creationists are the village idiots of religion like people who believe the Earth is flat. Even religious people find them to be stupid.You're the one who started this thread complaining that you got no respect as an atheist Morkulv. Maybe the reason you're not getting any respect is because you're not giving anyone any either.
Really Ter please your being irrational.