Are you a suppporter of Canis Lupus????

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 12:34 am

Well I don't like the idea of leaving a wolf to rot all that pleasent either.... though I don't find shooting them from airplanes or poisening all that nice either... *or shooting them period.*

This is one of those areas where I'm forced to turn off the sentimental part of my mind and think logically. Though admittidly that can be difficult.

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:11 am

No threats from this wolf. I support the First Amendment too.

We each have our own ways of approaching and dealing with it and the stand you're taking is just as valid.

Respect to thee, sir.

On shooting from planes: No, don't do it! Not fair, smacks of Weaver, get down there and take responsibility, damn it!

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:22 pm

thanks i was a little worried that i'm might get in trouble for the sevarity of my last post.

vrikasatma · Post by **vrikasatma** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 1:36 pm

I'm secure enough in my own beliefs that other peoples' opinions — even passionate ones like that — don't faze me, so long as they don't descend to personal insults.

Celestialwolf · Post by **Celestialwolf** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:09 pm

Yes! I support real wolves!

I actually had my letter to the editor published in my state's most subscribed to newspaper (the Deseret News) back in June. It is regarding whether to allow wolves from Yellowstone to stay in Utah once they move here on their own. Some other guy was against this and here was my response:

Wolves belong in Utah
Mr. Dunn’s comments on wolves coming back to Utah (Readers’ Forum, May 31) were clearly misinformed. Had Mr. Dunn made any attempt at research on this topic, he would have found quite different results. “Stories abound of wolves attacking and killing early settlers?’ Those stories are just that: stories. However, there is no record of wolves having ever killed a single person in the entire North American continent! To contrast this fact, deer kill about 20 people a year.

Wolves are a vital part of any healthy ecosystem: the predator. While I’m definitely not an environmentalist, the fact is that when the wolves were re-introduced to Yellowstone in 1995, saplings that hadn’t had a chance to grow near riverbanks due to overgrazing began to spring up again after a 70 year absence. This was because grazing animals such as moose, elk, and deer were forced to behave like wild animals and hide from the new predators. No more easy grazing on the riverbanks. Wolves also keep herds strong and healthy by going after sick, diseased, and old animals. Research shows that wolves’ kills benefit many other scavenger animals in the area by providing a regular supply of carrion as well.

Chances are the same things will happen in our state. Wolves definitely belong in Utah; when they start coming I hope the wishes of a few misinformed people don’t overrule the many benefits they can bring.

So, yeah, there it is. I can write all business-like when I want to.

Black Shuck · Post by **Black Shuck** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:37 pm

I'd love it if they would bring the wolves back to Utah! I think more people get attacked by cougars than by wolves. I've only heard of 1 or 2 cougar attack stories, but I can't remember hearing a true wolf one. I think a lot of the fuss is the cattlemen worried about their stocks. I guess that's reasonable seems how raising cattle is how they make a living. It doesn't seem like wolves were all that devestating before they started getting killed off, shouldn't be too much now. I could be wrong about that because there's less open space today than there was back then, but I think both sides can manage. I'd be pissed if I saw a wolf hanging up in my hunting camp. Then again, I'd be pissed if it was a bobcat or a cougar. Yeah, they may have had a license, but what are they going to do with it? Bobcat jerky isn't high up my list of game foods

If they were actually going to eat the wolf, okay then, but I think it's kinda horrid.

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:44 pm

i agree i can't wait for the wolf to go back in utah. it would be pretty cool when i go camping and i hear a wolf howl off in the distance and increase my chances to see a wild wolf.

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:21 pm

wolves are so awsome i just watched growing up wolf on Animal Planet. and it showed the merical of bith. it shown a wolf give birth of 5 pups it was the most beautiful thing i ever saw in my life. and it shown the pups grow up. i couldn't help but cry.

i have a soft spot for wolf pups. so what!!!! got a problem with that?!!!!!

puppies

Black Shuck · Post by **Black Shuck** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:46 pm

Wolf pups are so cute. I bought a magnet from Yellowstone with a wolf pup trying to howl. It's cute

Celestialwolf · Post by **Celestialwolf** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:20 am

Yep, wolves are awesome! Too bad people grew up on stories like "little red riding hood" and "the 3 little pigs" among others. They give people pre-concieved notions that wolves are "bad" and ""evil." Not so: they just have to kill to eat. Most everybody does.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:45 pm

Lazywolf wrote:Yep, wolves are awesome! Too bad people grew up on stories like "little red riding hood" and "the 3 little pigs" among others. They give people pre-concieved notions that wolves are "bad" and ""evil." Not so: they just have to kill to eat. Most everybody does.

hold the phone lazywolf, there was a book called three little wolves and the big bad pig

I love that book, I would like to buy even though its a childrens book.

Black Shuck · Post by **Black Shuck** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 4:35 pm

I remember that book! That book was cool

Vicious · Post by **Vicious** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:32 pm

To me, one wolf life is worth millions of human lives.
So many take and take and take, consuming and ruining wildlife habitat with no consideration for anything but there own worthless, pointless, insignifigant lives.

If i could, i would kill entire cities and states just the smallest of packs.

Humanity is vermin.

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:09 pm

well I dont know about 1 wolf is worth a million human lives but if I were to chose a wolf cub and a baby child in a building thats on fire, Id might choose the cub. Im not interested in human babies is probably why, thanks to my stupid baby nephew.

Kzinistzerg · Post by **Kzinistzerg** » Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:22 pm

I have to say this: when it comes down to survival, when it's i'll eat the wol'f or it'll eat me, i havbe to know the exact curcimstances- but i tend to lean towards the 'wolves deserve ti more' side. really, we haven't overpopulated this world but it so happens that wolves and humans liek the same areas.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:52 pm

WoW

Some of you really surprised me with your comments

I can't believe anybody here would actually consider even killing one wolf even if survivial is a in question

If people would only look at this.....Wolves were here way before man interefered and now since they decided to move in on the wolves territory they kill off the wolves

Wolves don't know how to deal with such a sudden change when that was their way of life before man even though of invading

If these people were to sit back and honestly take a look around them and what these wolves are actually doing, they are not much different from us.......Wolves want to survive as much as any human would and they do what they have to do to survive...like a human would, but you see humans killing wolves, heh, but you don't ever hear of a wolf killing a human...you see it's only a human who truely does damage to the ecosystem.....Listen.....Look at how much man has destroyed already: vast forest, polluted bodies of water with trash, oil spill, even ballons are a danger to animals because when people release there ballons they will eventually pop and return to earth and some unsuspecting animal might try to consume it and choke to death, even the plastic rings that hold a case of soda togther is a danger because the rings get wrapped around an animal and strangles them and with these oil spill bird and other sea and land creatures suffer because the oil gets in their feather and their fur and when they drink they get poisoned and die....you see wolves aren't the only ones that suffer for human arrogance and it won't stop until it comes back at them when their water supply is down because of pollution....Also look at what man has don't to the solar system....We have global warming problems....I mean it seemed to me impossible for man to screw with the atmosphere, but look at it......I mean not only do animals suffer look at us humans who actually do care about the well being of or earth....look at what this heat is doing to some people...people are dying from this heat every year and it seems to be hotter every year and that's because of global warming and human technology F**KING with this once beautiful plant...not to say that the plant earth still isn't pretty,but so much damage has been done to it, fortunatlly there are still areas in the would untouched by man and a lot of places are protect through Conservancy efforts by some amazing humans, I a thankful that so many humans still are out to protect wolves and their habitat, I only wish there were more to see that wolves really do help and are not a problem and if there is a problem with wolves in an area simply relocate...there is no reason to kill an animal for doing something it does natural by instinct, but yes I will always support wolves and I will always be against poaching and any type of wolf exterinating regardless of reason..........

Black Shuck · Post by **Black Shuck** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:50 pm

If it was extreme survival, ie a large amount of people were going to die (although I don't see that happening because of a wolf, or even a pack) I'd rather the wolves were relocated instead of shot. Killing them is a horrible choice and I think there's more options than that. We have moved in on their territory, which makes things difficult for the wolves and other animals that were already there. It's sad when a wolf has to resort to killing livestock or even pets to survive, but I don't see that a proper reason to kill the wolf. Personally, I'm not particulary fond of the thought of killing any wild animal, and I'd much rather that other means were used (relocation or put into "troublesum animal" sanctuaries) instead of putting them down. I reluctantly support in very extreme measures, but considering I think there's more options than extermination, the extreme measures seem to be a very rare occurance (I can't think of any off the top of my head that I know off). I agree that animals shouldn't be killed because of their instincts to survive. I hate thinking of how harsh a moment would have to be for humans and animals to compete for food, but most people don't have to compete for their food or have found ways to keep their food safe. People have dicked with this planet enough and it should stop before we end up screwing ourselves over.

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:00 pm

Vicious wrote:To me, one wolf life is worth millions of human lives.
So many take and take and take, consuming and ruining wildlife habitat with no consideration for anything but there own worthless, pointless, insignifigant lives.

If i could, i would kill entire cities and states just the smallest of packs.

Humanity is vermin.

hear hear i so agree!! i would die my self than let a wolf die.

WolvenOne · Post by **WolvenOne** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:50 pm

I will once again state that in a few more remote areas of north america, Wolves and humans do directly compete for food. Get into the lower 48 though and there's no real reason to go after wolves. Oh sure they may tax the game animal population a bit, but in most states there's only a few hundred wolves at the very most, so if there are states where the game animal population cannot support a few hundred wolves, then humans really shouldn't be hunting anyway.

outwarddoodles · Post by **outwarddoodles** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:57 pm

Truly, the world is beautiful, internet and fun games to play, humanity has alot of offer, but I must agree on the rest of the world, slowly turning into nothing thanks to human 'progess'.

We are just like everyother animal, we take what we need and want. We are just growing and using the resources around us. Humans thrive among our tools, our way of living with each other. We just over grew, making new and cool products and devices that we changed into a whole new thing. WE're growing because we become smarter, in certain ways that is, and that alot of people feel as though they need babies. We are expanding because we are surviving! Truly, what is wrong with living and surviving, all animals do it, to some extent. A wolf didn't give a crap about a deer it killed, we thrive to live just like other animals, what makes us worse?

We're better than that.

We humans have created a strange nitch in the world, we don't do as other animals in the wild live, actually we are doing the same thing; surviving, yet we have done it in such a strange way outside of other ecosytems. We use and use and use! Thus we destroy, take a region, take a species, they'll all go under the same fate, death. Take some role of an animal, screwed up in our strange new role. Any animal that does not fit in our life style is not fit to stay on this earth, if they don't make profit then they can't stay, if they take away profit and hurt us, then they absolutly must perish!

Humans strange nitch has granted them such a strange soceity, inwhich most people grow up and are nutured into something else, not taught what life is, but more or less taught what looks fashionable and that really cool music on the radio.

We have cows for our food, they help us, they stay. All we need are those cows for food, and some other animals. Then why do we need rainforests and other places? It seems as though we want what they think we need. We also are ruining animals and things we do use for profit, such as forests and animals to be poached. The saddest of all being the seal killing, how crude on the way they die.

We do just like alot of other animals, wolves may not like bears or cougars, don't they want rid of them too? Wolves don't care on the well being of their prey, just the nice meal it'll make. So why are we the bad people here?

Because we are better than that.

We are more capable. Yet I would think an animal thinks different it still thinks. When I think to myself I am talking to myself, my cat is incapable of such doings. Doesn't mean my cat thinks. WE can have logical reasoning, one of which I imbrace my humanity, yet for some reason it just isn't used. Besides the fact they do not speak to themselves, nor have a set number to count, nor set names to live by, animals concious may not be that all differnt.

We as humans are capable of destroying, we seem to destroy because we are more 'smarter'. Our intellegence is what is destroying our planet, the smarter we seem to get the more the world suffers. Thus we have intellegence, we are smart and resourceful, we can fix the world. We have learned how the world works, how nature works, thus we should be able to live along side.

Personaly I would agree that we humans are very capable of many things. We are able to do complex actions and doings. Yet to beleive as 'Stupidest' I would say its just a lack of common sense or care. People can add as many numbers they please, solve a rubix cubes in how less of time they try, find out what life is. Then destroy it. We found out that without trees we can not live, trees and plants help give us life, but no. We cut them down. We KNOW they are vital, we just, well I sappose 'stupid', we just decide to chop 'em down. Money gives us oxygen to doesn't it?

We're biocide.

23Jarden · Post by **23Jarden** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:57 pm

I for one think that Killing of wolves is absolutely unnessesary(SP) You want them gone? Bring them Up here we have so many deer it isn't funny. Nearly every day I drive and there's a new face on the side of the road. We could really use them. Atleast 3 packs should calm things down. But of course there are alot of farmers here. And alot of old fashion hunters. Who would shoot first and ask questions never. They need to relocated...

Rex Wolf · Post by **Rex Wolf** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:06 am

For anyone who's read a couple of my posts...yeah, you might say I'm a supporter...with every fibre and dollar of my being. No, not by donating to some worthless glory hounding organization that either makes things worse (Defenders, though I'm working on that issue) or cares about nothing but their own glory and budgets, even at the COST of the lives of wolves (California Wolf Center.)

No, I've dedicated my life to wolves. I'm up here, going to school, for the next 11 or more years (2 down, 11 more to go!) so that I can start a research facility. I moved to a stinking red state so backwards, and so hypocritical, that it has cost me financially, emotionally, physically, and mentally, so that I can be close to wolves and never forget why I'm in school (at 37.)

Yeah, I support wolves in real life.

I lived with a pack on a damn grazing allotment most of the summer, with a rancher constantly harassing me in a very fierce and sometimes dangerous way, just because I support wolves.

Yeah, I support them.

I changed my name, mostly because my family thinks I should get a job ripping people off and contributing to the decline of society, abandoned me in my time of need, and more so, gave me NOTHING that I have, not even support; but also partly to show my dedication to wolves.

Yup, wolves can see me as a friend.

I have many enemies in the "wolf business", including one well known person who has threatened to "personally destroy my (non-existant) reputation" because I asked for an investigation into the death of four wolves in a fire, because I and others volunteered to clear the brush that caused the fire to jump into their pens, but was shunned because we came up with the idea, not the glory-hounding director.

I've been known to give of myself for wolves.

I have an educational website, which I unfortunately have to update and stop neglecting, that needs more than just my financial support (sure, I'll take proceeds from merchandise or donations from people, and if I get enough, I'll even update the site and restore the photo gallery.)

Yes, I do in fact support wolves. Wolves are now my life.

I guess I'm trying to earn the right to become a wolf. Or I just want to help my brothers.

Rex Wolf · Post by **Rex Wolf** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:15 am

WolvenOne wrote:I'm a supporter of wolves within reason. Meaning, that if it comes down to a humans life and a wolfs life, the human wins. Which is, why I'm reluctantly not upset about the aerial shooting in Alaska. Okay hold on a sec and hear my resoning before jumping at my throat.

I grew up in Alaska and I'm intimatly familier with it's people. Now, in most of America, most people hunt mainly for sport, sure they like having the meat but they can readily get it from other sources...

WolvenOne:

You are highly misinformed about wolves.

Ask yourself, if wolves are so "devastating" to elk, deer, caribou, moose, etc...then why are they still around?

No, mankind shoots wolves because they don't know any better.

Look to a recent story on NPR about Banff, Elk, and Wolves. Better yet, stop paying attention to the propaganda circulated by Ron Gillette and the Idaho Anti-Wolf coalition. Try instead, going to my friend Ralph Maughan's website (forwolves.org/ralph) That man does his research, and presents truly unbiased information about wolves.

I also strongly suggest that people understand that what they hear about wolves and decimation and dangers to people is rumor, innuendo, and opinion, not fact. The media parlays this misinformation. It is why I am going into research, to contribute to the body of KNOWLEDGE that's out there. But more imporantly, it is why Ralph maintains his website, the single largest and most comprehensive website in the WORLD about wolves.

And here's another one for you, if wolves were so dangerous to mankind, then why did we domesticate them?

Figarou · Post by **Figarou** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:20 am

Well, I'm very proud that you decided to help out your fellow brothers, Rex Wolf. There are times where I wish I can help protect wolves. Thing is, there is none running wild where I live.

Hope everything goes well and you don't have any problems in the future. Sometimes people can get out of hand if the wolf invades thier land. Be carefull and good luck.

Rex Wolf · Post by **Rex Wolf** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 2:40 am

WolvenOne, sorry, but these are mostly directed at you. Misinformation kills more wolves than anything else. You live in a highly anti-wolf area down there, and you really need to stop believing your neighbors and the local (and state) papers.

Wolves and humans DO NOT compete for food. Wolves select the sick, the old, the tired, the invalid, and the young. Humans hunt for size, trophy, meat, fur, hides, etc. Wolves generally hunt herds, so taking a small percentage of the herd does NOT hurt people who substinence hunt.

Besides, humans can get food delivered, can wolves?

Another fact. Wolves are NOT dangerous to humans. Just ask the researchers who pull pups out of dens. Wolves fear humans (gee, you think?) Yes, things can happen, but wolves are safer with regards to humans than: bears, cougars, bison, moose, elk, DEER, beavers, even squirrels have caused more human deaths or injuries than wolves. Humans are more dangerous to other humans than all of the above. Have you heard anyone advocating getting rid of humans to keep humans safe?

More facts: Wolves are social animals, which is why they are easy to kill.

Controlling wolves is detrimental is so many ways it isn't funny. A wolf pack relies on the alpha as a leader, not because he's the strongest, or the best hunter, but because he is the best leader, the best organizer of the pack. You destroy that, you destroy their knowlege. Wolves are one of the ONLY other animals (besides humans) who pass knowledge down through multiple generations. We have yet to recongize the importance of this, and instead of taking advantage of it, we eliminate it by controlling packs, or worse, allowing hunting.

Wolves DO NO sport kill. Those pictures you've seen floating around of abandoned wolf-kills, are abandoned because wolves fear the humans who go to take the pictures. Duh...no one ever asked how those pictures got taken, and why there aren't more or at least as many pictures of kills with wolves still on them: "uh oh guys, here comes a human, let's get the hell out of here!"

Wolves don't like to eat livestock. It is not their preferred prey. Livestock doesn't run, and wolves act on instinct, the predator instinct, the same one that causes my dogs to chase after things that take off and run. Ever see a cow run at the site of something? Well, it's not common, which is why hundreds of thousands of livestock aren't killed. I have seen firsthand, wolves in a grazing allotment where cattle outnumber (and displace) elk 100 to 1 or more. Yet no cattle are eaten, though yes, it does happen. But again, cattle displace elk. If someone took all of your food away and left you with brussel sprouts, would you eat them?

Wolves DO NOT decimate prey populations. As a matter of fact, they HELP prey populations (deer when applicable, elk, caribou, moose, etc.) Wolves select the easiest member of a herd to catch. That's not the big strong buck, or the healthy cow (like we go after), that's the sick, the old, the young. Eliminating the sick from the herd eliminates them from the gene pool, and makes the herd stronger. As I mentioned previously, if wolves were so destructive to prey, then please explain why prey are still around. As a matter of fact, wolf populations are DIRECTLY proportional to prey populations. Recently, a harsh winter took a toll on elk herds in Yellowstone. Wolves had fewer pups that Spring as a result. There is no possible way wolves can decimate prey populations. Only mankind can do that.

That should be enough for now. Again, not trying to pick on any one person, but I cannot allow misinformation about wolves to be spread. I have done my research. You should too.

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