Hmm. Been here before... An open letter.

[ANTIcarrot.]

I remember reading about a time long,, long ago in a land far, far away when black people wanted more black characters on the big and small screen, and were sick and tired of black people always being portrayed as the bad guys. This some familiar anyone?

Activist: Black people can be more than faceless gangster henchmen. Can't we have some real characters? You know, every day people?
Hollywood: Hey! Yeah! I see what you mean! We've got this great psycho killer coming up! We can make him a black guy! And that would work really well! He's be really hard to spot in the shadows!
Activist: Erm, no, that's not what I mean. We don't think that's a reasonable or accurate portrayal of black people.
Hollywood: Really? <Consults big book of Hollywood stereotypes.> No, no. Says so right here in the myths and legends box. All black people are gangsters and hoodlums with huge bulging muscles and huge bulging crotches. And they're completely impervious to morality. Only pure hearted american white males can kill them.
Activist: But that makes no sense! An anyway they’re not really like that!
Hollywood: Hey? What do you expect? This is Hollywood! It's all make-believe!
Activist: Can't you show them as mothers, fathers, businessmen and upstanding members of the community? Just normal people.
Hollywood: Hey! Hey! Slow down! I said make believe not miracles! Next thing you’ll be expecting realism, fully realised characters and intelligent dialogue...

Werewolves have to be invulnerable, have super senses, be stronger than Hulk and crush insignificant humans beneath their paws like the worms they are. Oh and the transformation has to really hurt and they must be only vulnerable to silver! The myths tell us so!

You could make a film like that. And it might even be a profitable film. But it wouldn’t really be a film about werewolves, and it wouldn’t be a film I’d like to watch. For that the werewolves have to be characters, not stereotypes. They have to have major and outstanding vulnerabilities in both body and mind. They have to behave in ways we find reasonable with motivations we find recognizable - whether from the human or canine box of tricks.

With respect to al the sensible types, I’ve seen too many people on this board treat werewolves (in my humble opinion) like “Hollywood’ above (and in the real world) treated black people. And like “activist’ I’d really prefer the makes of this film don’t do that, and by contrast, they do include things like realism, fully realised characters and intelligent dialogue.

Which I'm sure they will.

ANTIcarrot.

[Apokryltaros]

...
Hollywood: Hey! Hey! Slow down! I said make believe not miracles! Next thing you’ll be expecting realism, fully realised characters and intelligent dialogue...

Werewolves have to be invulnerable, have super senses, be stronger than Hulk and crush insignificant humans beneath their paws like the worms they are. Oh and the transformation has to really hurt and they must be only vulnerable to silver! The myths tell us so!

You could make a film like that. And it might even be a profitable film. But it wouldn’t really be a film about werewolves, and it wouldn’t be a film I’d like to watch. For that the werewolves have to be characters, not stereotypes. They have to have major and outstanding vulnerabilities in both body and mind. They have to behave in ways we find reasonable with motivations we find recognizable - whether from the human or canine box of tricks.

With respect to al the sensible types, I’ve seen too many people on this board treat werewolves (in my humble opinion) like “Hollywood’ above (and in the real world) treated black people. And like “activist’ I’d really prefer the makes of this film don’t do that, and by contrast, they do include things like realism, fully realised characters and intelligent dialogue.

Which I'm sure they will.

ANTIcarrot.

On the other hand, I doubt that a movie about a group of blind and deaf werewolves who want to help plant flowers and simply talk about their problems and lacked the necessary upperbody strength to so much as even mug a marshmallow if they even tried will not be a profitable film.

It's one thing to try and avoid stereotypes, but what happens when you throw everything out for the sake of avoiding stereotypes?
I mean, a horror/fantasy film can not survive solely on characters alone, you must realize.

[Silver]

[ANTIcarrot.]

It's one thing to try and avoid stereotypes, but what happens when you throw everything out for the sake of avoiding stereotypes?

Hollwood: Hey! I've just had this great idea! As well throwing out all those other stereotypes about black people, let's throw their sin colour out as well. We can have *white* black people! They can star in our new film: Lord of the Ring Tones!


Point taken, but the traditional slobbering man eating werewolf has been done to death. The uber-werewolf has been done to death by World of Darkness. And the ultra-sheik werewolf would just be a rehash of the goth vampire, which Blade et all have similarly done to death.

I mean, a horror/fantasy film can not survive solely on characters alone, you must realize.

I'd disagree that horror and fantasy had anything to do with each other. compare and contrast AAWIL and Princess Mononoke for instance. Yes they both have 'evil' magic and giant wolves in it, but that's about as far as it goes. They're about as different as government propaganda about the Red Menace and a promotional video about Russian holidays.

OK, black people are real and ww’s are not.

True, but wolves are real enough. I do find it a little frustrating when you have these beautiful magnificent wonderful creatures (I like wolves if you can’t tell) and yet whenever werewolves appear their appearance and behavior is completely made up BS. I’ve met wolves, rubbed under their bellies, scratched behind their ears, fer them by hand and was even playfully bitten once. I’ve read stories where the WWs are more than eating machines or muscle-heads in cool clothes. Ugh. Sorry. As I was saying - frustrating.

What we’re trying to do here is find out what mythoi/public images are accepted, liked, disliked, and really piss people off. So, AntiCarrot, I would ask that you have some patience.

Look up the story of the Curumpaw wolf sometimes. As bad as anything the Klan ever did. But yes, I take your point. I wasn’t trying to silence anyone, but rather make them consider the consequences of the more extreme options. And yes I’ll try to be a little more patient. ^.^

ANTIcarrot.

[Apokryltaros]

Um, I don't know if you've noticed, or not, but, the nice people here at ReQuest ARE TRYING TO AVOID PORTRAYING THE WEREWOLVES IN THIS FILM AS BEING SLAVERING KILLING MACHINE/BEASTS.
That being said, yes I'm well aware, keenly aware of, even, of the bad press that wolves have recieved down through the centuries. But that, alas, comes with the territory of cultures which rely on herding animals coming into contact with potential competitors.
Now that THAT has been said, werewolves do not exist. I wish they did, as I would get myself a pet with whom I could hold an intelligent conversation with. But they don't, so I'll have to make do with talking at my cats and dog. They are FANTASY. And yes, I'm also well aware of the vast majority of werewolf films being horror pictures, but, you miss my point entirely.
Nobody likes a film where the known laws of physics are thrown in the trash, be it fantasy or horror, or science fiction, but everyone in the film does nothing but sit down talk about their problems.
Furthermore, your comparing the plight of the stereotyping of black people in movies with the plight of stereotyping werewolves in movies is as useful as saying how all Chinese people are horrible horrible people because someone 3 thousand years ago wrote a recipe for roast dragon stuffed with seasoned rice and swallow-flesh.

[ABrownrigg]

AntiCarrot. (btw, I love the name) ..

As the Director of this Movie. I can safely say that you are in luck. I feel much as you do. The WW has been done to death as a slathering beast. I personally am happy that the production is taking the turn that it is. In fact, my idea of creating this very forum was to get folks like you and others here to say exactly those things. There are a lot of werewolf movies in production at the moment, and all of them have the same theme. (i.e. slathering demon beast)

My personal take as we rework the script, is this is moving out of the horror/slasher genre, and moving into a kind of odd realm of Werewolf Epic. We'll have to see. As far as the use of wolves, believe me we have some of the most connected folks with wolves around that are really giving me a wonderful education on them. My original take is that werewolves are not evil or good, like wolves, they are instinctual by nature, and non violent, (unless hunting for food).... evil or good only applies when humans are thrown into the mix. IF a werewolf is scary, it is not because of what he is, it is WHO he is. Give any jerk a gun, (or power for that matter).. and you're gonna have problems. The attempt is to keep it clear, that the nature of evil resides in humans, not in wolves. Wolves don't even hunt humans, why on earth would werewolves.

I hope that you will continue to watch the boards as things develop. We've changed a great many things thanks to the patience, the suggestions, and the support of the members here. And in the end, I believe it will be a unique project unlike anything ever seen.

So I agree with Silver, just hang in there, keep up the rants, believe me we need em, be patient to those that don't agree, and know that we're working on a much much bigger project in both scope, and intellect that has ever been attempted on a werewolf film. (how's that for a run-on sentence?)

Sincerely,

Anthony Brownrigg
Director

[ANTIcarrot.]

No, but there seem to be certian God-PC tendencies in certian posts. I've seen it happen that a fictional species is logically evolved to the point where it is no longer interesting to anyone outside a small group. [edit] And I confess to have been both dumb enough to do it myself and refuse to listen to all advice to fix the problem. My aim with the open letter was to try and prevent someone else from maybe makig the same mistake. [edit]

Making them too super human makes them less interesting. I feel that giving them too many fantastical traits (that come from neither human nor wolf) will have the same effect if they are to be portrayed as characters you wish the audience to emphasise with.

None of which requires that they only talk about their problems or spend the whole film gardening. I don't know where that idea came from. The vast majoity of films made to date do not feature superhuman uber-characters, and yet somehow they also manage to not include gardening as well. The two states are not mutually exclusive.

ANTIcarrot.

[ABrownrigg]

Good point.

True, true.

Well, there will be no kung fu werewolves in this film. Nor wolves with machine guns... and we're really trying to keep the abilities to a realistic type scale.... a werewolf would NOT have super human strength in my opinion, although just a stronger being is not outside my realm of reality for these folks. I also love the idea of regeneration during a change, I dont think bullet holes close up suddenly, they hurt, they can kill... I like your concept of blocking bloodflow, that type of protection, its realistic without being superhuman.

Anthony Brownrigg

[SGrayWolf]

Ok.... that gardening thing put a crazy visual into my head...

Meet... Samwise-Wolfgee....a hobbit werewolf.... he loves to garden....

(some time later)

but I can help you carry it... precious....

AIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...........

Sorry bout that, I couldn't resist... me and my weird humor.

[Figarou]

Humans ruined the wolf's life centuries ago. If wolves didn't kill the livestock that humans had, would we have werewolf stories today? Probably not. I know I mentioned this somewhere. Because of the fear humans have of the wolf, werewolves was born from stroytelling. And throughout the centuries, those stories has changed. Its going to be very difficult to make a werewolf a "good guy" with all of the bad publicity and centuries of "bad guy" storytelling.


I used to like White-wolf. Now I hate them. Throughout my life I encountered stupid werewolf stories and films. The ideas that some people have are just plain silly. Some are quite funny. People did try to make a werewolf a good guy in the past. FangFace is one. Funny in some place, odd in others. Having a picture of a moon to change him to a werewolf is very odd.

I know there will be elements in this film that will get the general public talking. You guys need to try and get some non-werewolf fans opinions and see what they say. Give them what you have so far. Think they will agree? Probably not. They might be expecting a big killing machine from all of those old stories from centuries past.

We are just a small group trying to make a big difference. I hope we all succeed in this mission.

[Scott Gardener]

One can make werewolves interesting without having to resort to over-the-top supernatual powers that have nothing to do with being part wolf or part human. It's not a huge disabling to exclude some of the more exotic or bizarre powers sometimes attributed to werewolves in spite of their counterintuitive nature.

Why, for example, in Underworld and Van Helsing do we see werewolves climbing walls? Where did that come from? And, while wolves are good at jumping, Van Helsing has them bounding about like Ranma 1/2 and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, leaping two hundred feet in the air. If werewolves are too powerful, a story quickly can become pretty cheesy. (Consider the werewolf at the orgy in Howling II, who could shoot energy blasts from her fingertips.)

Werewolves don't have to be comic book heroes to be interesting. You don't have to have silver Kryptonite or adamantine claws to drive a plot!

Quick, Robin, to the Wolfmobile!

[Apokryltaros]

One can make werewolves interesting without having to resort to over-the-top supernatual powers that have nothing to do with being part wolf or part human. It's not a huge disabling to exclude some of the more exotic or bizarre powers sometimes attributed to werewolves in spite of their counterintuitive nature.

Why, for example, in Underworld and Van Helsing do we see werewolves climbing walls? Where did that come from? And, while wolves are good at jumping, Van Helsing has them bounding about like Ranma 1/2 and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, leaping two hundred feet in the air. If werewolves are too powerful, a story quickly can become pretty cheesy. (Consider the werewolf at the orgy in Howling II, who could shoot energy blasts from her fingertips.)

Werewolves don't have to be comic book heroes to be interesting. You don't have to have silver Kryptonite or adamantine claws to drive a plot!

Quick, Robin, to the Wolfmobile!

So in other words, we want a special effects budget of $20?

[Vuldari]

I sense alot of frustration from ANTIcarrot. :shock:

I have been browsing and contributing to this forum for a while now, and what I have found is that almost EVERYONE here agrees with the idea that WereWolves Should NOT be inherantly Bloodthisty killers, immortal, or any of the things that has been ranted about here.

...you're "preaching to the choir" ANTIcarrot. We hear you.

Try to be opoen minded and understanding as well, as some of us LIKE some of the old steriotypes about Werewolves. (I pesonally believe that more than just the capacity to become a wolf is needed to classify a character as a "werewolf". The Painful shift, Moon influence, silver weakness and/or enhanced healing are part of the package. ...in my opinion...)

This website is looking for EVERYONES opinions, including those people who want a werewolf to be "as strong as the HULK.".
Everyones opinions matter, and hold equal weight here.

That said, Welcome to "The Pack" ANTIcarrot.

[JoeDarkfall]

You want werewolves that break stereo types?

"Crymson Dynasty" begins shooting in the fall. Keep your ears open.

[Vuldari]

You want werewolves that break stereo types?

"Crymson Dynasty" begins shooting in the fall. Keep your ears open.

My "Google" searches brought me nothing relevant on that title. Would you tell us where you heard about this, and what it is for that matter?

[ABrownrigg]

Crimson Dynasty actually, and it is based on a novel. It's being shot in france I believe, a french film.

[Scott Gardener]

About the $20 budget:

Absolutely not. In fact, I'd love to see a werewolf movie with a real budget. Heck, I'd donate to the cause if I weren't too busy saving up for disaster relief overseas.

The story, however, should drive the effects, not the other way around.

But, my arguement was not about the degree of special effects; it was about what the effects were portraying. Werewolves can be more interesting and more believable if they're not twelve-foot tall god-monsters that can jump five hundred meters, climb walls like spiders, fly, run faster than a speeding silver bullet, and shoot fricking lasers on their heads. Turning into a wolf is pretty fantastic in its own right, and just the ramifications of that in terms of enhanced senses and movement create more than enough empowerment to give werewolves a strategic edge.

[Vuldari]

Crimson Dynasty actually, and it is based on a novel. It's being shot in france I believe, a french film.

I must be searching through the wrong sources.

I've found a French film by that title,(aka, Imperio De Sangre...which actually translates as "Blood Empire" according to Googles translator), but that does not seem to be right.
This film is obviously old, and NOT about werewolves.
(Source: http://cinefania.com/movie.php/10195/ )
According to the description, this is a Murder Mystery.

...that can't be it. Can anyone clue me in? I would like to know what JoeDarkfall is talking about.

Edit: Waaait a minute...I think I goofed. That's SPANISH isn't it? Oops...
I that case, I'm totally lost.

Edit:2; No...it was based on a novel by a french author named Pierre Benoit., called Koenigsmark. So why is only listed in the spanish version of the website?
Gaaahhh...My head hurts!

[Figarou]

Crimson Dynasty actually, and it is based on a novel. It's being shot in france I believe, a french film.

I must be searching through the wrong sources.

I've found a French film by that title,(aka, Imperio De Sangre...which actually translates as "Blood Empire" according to Googles translator), but that does not seem to be right.
This film is obviously old, and NOT about werewolves.
(Source: http://cinefania.com/movie.php/10195/ )
According to the description, this is a Murder Mystery.

...that can't be it. Can anyone clue me in? I would like to know what JoeDarkfall is talking about.

Edit: Waaait a minute...I think I goofed. That's SPANISH isn't it? Oops...
I that case, I'm totally lost.

Edit:2; No...it was based on a novel by a french author named Pierre Benoit., called Koenigsmark. So why is only listed in the spanish version of the website?
Gaaahhh...My head hurts!

Try aspirin. Works for me.

[JoeDarkfall]

Hey there guys and gals.

The name of the title is all in the spelling. Crymson Dynasty not Crimson. I guess it's a creative thing.

Anyhow, I'm actually doing the storyboards for this project as we "speak." I'm not allowed to give out too much info at this time, you know how it is.

But I have to say, after reading the script, I was really, really happy that I got the storyboard gig. They definately take Werewolf "personalities" to a different level than other Werewolf movies have.

There are Vampires envolved too. But it's nothing like Underworld. It's hard to put down how their relationships occur, so I guess I'll pass until I can figure it out without going into the "SPOILER" territory.

I'll see if I can get permisson to put up some storyboards. If I can, I'll go over to the Werewolf Movie section and start a Crymson Dynasty thread. I'll let you know in this thread too.

I have to say this though, the ending totally blew me away. The script was worded so good, that I didn't see it coming. There were clues and nods to this or that, which should have told me what the creatures were. Then this event happens, and then a big reveal of a name and it's like......holy s***, they just caused **such and such event**!! I'll see what I can do to get something up or more info from the team.

[Vuldari]

Ahhh...
That explains why I could not find any information about it. There isn't any yet.

Thanks for the exclusive heads up JoeDarkfall.

...there sure are alot of WW films in the works now. Cursed...Blood and Chocolate...Crymson Dynasty, (with a "Y")...Full Moon Fever...and of course *Devoured. (*working title)

I'm not sure if I should be exited about this trend, or worried. If the other films totally bomb, it potentially could kill the popularity of the genre. For example: If both "Cursed" and "Full Moon Fever" come out first, and they both suck, who will want to even bother going to see the Next WW fiilm, (which may be this one.)?
...something to think about.

[Figarou]

Ahhh...
That explains why I could not find any information about it. There isn't any yet.

Thanks for the exclusive heads up JoeDarkfall.

...there sure are alot of WW films in the works now. Cursed...Blood and Chocolate...Crymson Dynasty, (with a "Y")...Full Moon Fever...and of course *Devoured. (*working title)

I'm not sure if I should be exited about this trend, or worried. If the other films totally bomb, it potentially could kill the popularity of the genre. For example: If both "Cursed" and "Full Moon Fever" come out first, and they both suck, who will want to even bother going to see the Next WW fiilm, (which may be this one.)?
...something to think about.

Devoured..bomb? No way!!

Can't you see whats going on? Re-Quest Entertainment and Anthony Brownrigg are open minded about this. They created this forum to gather all the werewolf fans from around the world to get thier input, suggestions, knowledge, advice, ETC. This forum is just the tip of the iceberg!!


There is big plans in the future, my friend. Re-Quest Entertainment is going to make this film well known. They plan on going to a convention later this year.(I am so glad they are!! WOO!) They may have other plans as well. Maybe going to several conventions. Or maybe have a spot on "Entertainment Tonight" or some other movie entertainment TV show. They will do whatever it takes to spread the word!! And so will we! We as The Pack will also spread the word!! This film will the most talked about werewolf movie on the internet!! By the time it hits the theaters, there will be so many people thats anticipated on watching it.

Bomb...phooey!!! No bomb!! This film will rock!!

[Vuldari]

Devoured..bomb? No way!!... This film will rock!!

Ahem...

...If the other films totally bomb, it potentially could kill the popularity of the genre.

What I was saying was that, IF some of these other films don't do well in theatres, it may hurt the publics enthusiasm for another WW film...regardless of how Good it is. I have high expectations for "Devoured". I'm just afraid it may become a "sleeper hit".

[Figarou]

Devoured..bomb? No way!!... This film will rock!!

Ahem...

...If the other films totally bomb, it potentially could kill the popularity of the genre.

What I was saying was that, IF some of these other films don't do well in theatres, it may hurt the publics enthusiasm for another WW film...regardless of how Good it is. I have high expectations for "Devoured". I'm just afraid it may become a "sleeper hit".

A popcorn hit.

Van Helsing became that. Made more money in less time compared to Scooby Doo 2. Who knows. Only time will tell.

[Apokryltaros]

Devoured..bomb? No way!!... This film will rock!!

Ahem...

...If the other films totally bomb, it potentially could kill the popularity of the genre.

What I was saying was that, IF some of these other films don't do well in theatres, it may hurt the publics enthusiasm for another WW film...regardless of how Good it is. I have high expectations for "Devoured". I'm just afraid it may become a "sleeper hit".

If we have this sort of attitude, then, why bother?
Then, why not just shut this whole place down, stop production and send everyone home?