true form

This is the place for discussion and voting on various aspects of werewolf life, social ideas, physical appearance, etc. Also a place to vote on how a werewolf should look.

what is thier true form?

full Human
15
33%
gestalt and/or hybrid
17
38%
2 - Doesn’t really care either way
4
9%
3 - They’re pretty cool I guess, but they aren’t an obsession
9
20%
 
Total votes: 45

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Post by Trinity »

Vilkacis wrote:
Trinity wrote:--> CAN werewolves even breed. yers many of us would like that.., but what if the virus made them sterile? Thatwould solve a HUGE hole in biology and its not utterly unheard of. Makes it less fun, sure, but could be another reason why teh wereolves are so dern secretive and impartial. Who -becomes- a werewolf, who interacts with a werewolf.., etc.., could become even more important.., -because- werewolvs can't breed.

( Now I don't know about any on the rest of you, but I kinda like that idea. Its different, and I haven't seen it done anywhere else as far as I know. )
You see that all the time in movies and books about vampires.

Werewolves seem much more natural to me (as much as a supernatural being can be), so I don't much care for the idea of them being sterile. Even so, that doesn't rule it out as a possibility.

-- Vilkacis

*nods* True, I didn't think of that.

The intresting thing is, that in some Middle European mythos.., vampires and werewolves had/have a realted background and history to some extent. Dependant upon culture and geographical area.

If a werewolf, being a damned soul, were not given last rites properly and the head not removed.., they could arise as the evil undead ( vampires of ghouls ).

Vice versus a vampire not properly "excorcised" could return, and inhabit a wolf or human. This style of possession could cause said person to become a werewolf.

Stranger and stranger said "alice". ;)
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Post by Kelpten »

Hi! I'm new. This looks like an awsome site and I hope to frequent it.

My idea of the werewolf's true form is a bit different. The person's "true form" is the soul. Then the two other forms (I dont put much stalk in the hybred since it was only added to werewolves since hollywood came around) are sort of like shells. The soul shifts between the two and in the proccess the body shifts phisically. However, they both are constantly pulling at the soul. So the two forms constantly battle to gain domanince over the soul and therefore the werewolf. Think of it as two behaviors trying to live through the same person. The true form is whichever one is in control.

For werewolf birthings, I read an interesting book once. It was called Elvenborn. A shapeshifting dragon was pregnant and needed to shift. While she shifted, she also shiffted the baby into the same form. If they used that, werewolves could still shift easily even when pregnant.

As for the death of a werewolf, i would say they stay in whatever form they died in.
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Post by vrikasatma »

It's not in the canon as set out here, but in my story I have the Pashunara default to the man-beast/gestalt/Fierce Form. It reflects the Beast that resides in their hearts when the Jvala ignites, and that they are not of mundane reality anymore.

At the core of it all, a werecreature is another Fabulous Beast, a sibling to pegasi, manticores and ki-rin.
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Post by Shadow Wulf »

actually gastalt form has been known sense the greeks, wolf forms were around not much longer than gastalt.
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Post by Renorei »

True form is human, IMO. Not the coolest form, but I think it's the truest.

After all, did the first werewolf start out as wolf or human? Most likely human. I don't think it really matters what form the person 'feels' best in or whatever. They're humans. Who can turn into cool wolf-creatures.
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Post by Shadow Wulf »

Excelsia wrote:True form is human, IMO. Not the coolest form, but I think it's the truest.

After all, did the first werewolf start out as wolf or human? Most likely human. I don't think it really matters what form the person 'feels' best in or whatever. They're humans. Who can turn into cool wolf-creatures.
or mabey there wolves who can turn into humans, like wolf rain from what I understand :wink:
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Post by Renorei »

Shadow Wulf wrote:
Excelsia wrote:True form is human, IMO. Not the coolest form, but I think it's the truest.

After all, did the first werewolf start out as wolf or human? Most likely human. I don't think it really matters what form the person 'feels' best in or whatever. They're humans. Who can turn into cool wolf-creatures.
or mabey there wolves who can turn into humans, like wolf rain from what I understand :wink:
Possible but not plausible. Why would a wolf choose to be in a slow, weak human body? I can see where a human would want to spend a day as a wolf, but why would they want to be us? Though we pretty much own when it comes to brains, physically we kinda suck.

Wolf Rain is a really cool show though. Does it still air or did they stop airing it?
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Post by vrikasatma »

Excelsia wrote:Possible but not plausible. Why would a wolf choose to be in a slow, weak human body? I can see where a human would want to spend a day as a wolf, but why would they want to be us? Though we pretty much own when it comes to brains, physically we kinda suck.
Well, hmmmm, let me check with the Wolf and see what she thinks about reincarnating into a human body...

Ah. She's telling me, "True, you run slower, but you live slower. I never imagined what it was like to live for half a century or more. And having more colours — you're right, copper and Chartres blue are wonderful — chocolate, Handel, Respighi, Richard Adams, Voltaire and Todd Rundgren are definite pluses."
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Post by Aki »

Excelsia wrote:
Shadow Wulf wrote:
Excelsia wrote:True form is human, IMO. Not the coolest form, but I think it's the truest.

After all, did the first werewolf start out as wolf or human? Most likely human. I don't think it really matters what form the person 'feels' best in or whatever. They're humans. Who can turn into cool wolf-creatures.
or mabey there wolves who can turn into humans, like wolf rain from what I understand :wink:
Possible but not plausible. Why would a wolf choose to be in a slow, weak human body? I can see where a human would want to spend a day as a wolf, but why would they want to be us? Though we pretty much own when it comes to brains, physically we kinda suck.

Wolf Rain is a really cool show though. Does it still air or did they stop airing it?
Thumbs are rather useful.

Plus, when you need something in a human city, looking like a human helps blend in better than looking like a Wolf.

Oh, and Shadow Wolf, they didn't TURN into humans. They just made themselves look like Humans...with illusions..
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Post by Anubis »

Aki wrote:Oh, and Shadow Wolf, they didn't TURN into humans. They just made themselves look like Humans...with illusions..
i don't think that. i think they transform into humans.
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Post by Aki »

Anubis wrote:
Aki wrote:Oh, and Shadow Wolf, they didn't TURN into humans. They just made themselves look like Humans...with illusions..
i don't think that. i think they transform into humans.
It was pretty obvious they didn't.

Namely: In the first episode while Kiba and Hige were in the streets, walking (as humans), a dog saw them, and from the dog's viewpoint they were wolves, then when it left the dogs viewpoint, they were human.

No one but the dog noticed this sudden shift. Obviously the dog saw through the illusion :wink:
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Post by Anubis »

oh wait your talking about wolf's rain oh sorry :oops:
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Post by Kelpten »

I think that wolves that turn into humans are called wolfweres rvt .
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Post by Renorei »

As far as wolves becoming humans:

Yeah, thumbs are useful, and there are many items in a human city that a wolf would probably appreciate. But, quite frankly, I just don't think a wolf could handle being a human. In the event a wolf wanted to go to a grocery store and buy a steak as opposed to killing a rabbit, here is a sample list of things they would have to learn to do:

-walk upright
-put on clothes properly
-human body language
-differences in cultural behavior b/w humans and wolves (i.e. they sniff each other, we shake hands)
-speak english
-read
-understand the system of human currency

Those are just a few of the things a wolf might need to know how to do if they were to go to a store and buy something. Let alone having an entire alternate life as a human! The human world is ridiculously complex, and proper socialization at the proper age is necessary to be able to operate in our world. I will use feral children as an example. Read this, and if you want, peruse the rest of the site as well.

http://www.feralchildren.com/en/showchild.php?ch=kamala

Kamala did make slow, slow, progress. But her lack of socialization prevented her from ever becoming a normal human. In the event that she had lived longer, she might one day have been normal, but I doubt it. I would also like to reiterate the fact that, she thought she WAS A WOLF. So we can use her as a reasonable comparison to a real wolf.

So. Assume a wolf gains the power to become human. It will take them many, many years to be able to be a normal human. Look at Kamala. She never became normal, and (during her first couple years, at least) probably would have sprung at the chance to return to the forest at any time. So if we have a wolf, who is in the human world, and in a human body, don't you think they would most likely choose to return to their wolf form and to the forest? Kamala certainly seemed to want to.

So anyway, that is my point. Sure, there are conveniences in the human world that you couldn't get in the wild, but being able to learn to be a normal human would take far too long, and I would think most wolves would prefer their natural lifestyle. Socialization is far more important than many people think. Ever met a home-schooled kid who didn't have much interaction with others at a young age? Most people think they're weird. If we think that one of those people is weird, imagine what we would think of someone who was raised as a wolf. Sure, they might, on occasion, turn into a human while in the forest for s*** and giggles, but I doubt they'd ever be able to deal with the complex interactions of the human world. Also, gaining the ability to become a human wouldn't necessarily give them the human lifespan. So, unless they become human and stay that way forever (and even that might not do the trick), they'd really only have about 10 years or so to learn to be a human. I don't think they could do it. Even if we decided to be optimistic and say maybe their lives might extend and be maybe 20 years, that still may not be enough.

IF they were BORN as a wolf who could become human, the above thoughts still apply, to a lesser degree. Just like with human babies, a wolf pup wouldn't really be capable of understanding the TF concept (if it could ever understand at all) until it was a little older. Let's say 2 months? So a 2 month old wolf pup becomes human (probably a four year old kid). Unless they stay human, there's still the lifespan problem. If they became human and TFed back to wolf frequently, their human body would age rapidly. About every six months or so, they'd have to learn to interact with a whole new age group. And they'd probably only live to be about 15ish (max), so that's not really much time there.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is this: because human social interactions are so complex and difficult to learn for those who have grown up believing they are something else (as evidenced by feral children) I believe that a wolf would just say 'screw it' and go back to wolf, b/c they wouldn't be able to handle being human.

And I really don't think a wolf would be able to ever understand any of it anyway. IMO, our minds are more complex for our more complex lifestyles. You can argue with me on this if you want (I'd really rather not though, that's hardly the point), but there is one thing that really can't be argued. The problems of socialization. Those have been proven in many instances of feral children.

The biggest difference between a feral child and a wolf is choice. Most feral children (those raised by animals, not the isolated kind) are physically prevented from returning to the wild, and thus are forced to learn a handful of words and how to walk upright. However, a wolf with the power to become human has the power to TF back wolf again anytime they want and return to the forest. IMO, they most likely would.

As far as reincarnation goes, I personally don't believe in it. You have a right to believe in it if you want, but you can't exactly use your experiences to prove that something is fact. However, for the sake of this discussion, I will assume that reincarnation exists and that you were a wolf at one point. Despite your past lives, you are a human in your current life and have always been human in this particular life. You were a human baby, and were socialized as a human. Thus, you are capable of handling human society. The wolf in you can appreciate the joys of human life, because the human part of you knows how to handle being a human, and isn't miserable in your human body, I assume.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on why wolves wouldn't want to be humans. I totally rambled up there, and I'm sorry about that. I really should learn not to do that. Anway, for those of you that actually read it, maybe you see where I'm coming from.
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Post by Shadow Wulf »

Aki wrote:
Anubis wrote:
Aki wrote:Oh, and Shadow Wolf, they didn't TURN into humans. They just made themselves look like Humans...with illusions..
i don't think that. i think they transform into humans.
It was pretty obvious they didn't.

Namely: In the first episode while Kiba and Hige were in the streets, walking (as humans), a dog saw them, and from the dog's viewpoint they were wolves, then when it left the dogs viewpoint, they were human.

No one but the dog noticed this sudden shift. Obviously the dog saw through the illusion :wink:
I can really imagine the white wolf alking around a corner and a pitbull starts barking at it. But if they were all an ilussion then wouldnt someone that bumped into them or shaked hands would go right through them?

*human goes to shake hands* What the hell, your a ghost!!! AHHHH
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Post by Darth Canis »

:) Good post Excelsia! i agree and disagree with all of you. i think the true form of a werewolf depends on the were. Again here i go into my Kelley Armstrong novels but Clayton one of the main ww's in her series grew up as feral child werewolf and because of this his personality and understanding of the world is more wolf then human. So i would add that the true form of any Werewolf would be the form that they were most comfortable in. Considering that most werewolves are humans before they are bitten that would probably be the form they would choose but who is to say that there wouldn't be exceptions to that rule.
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Post by Shadow Wulf »

thats true, rules are ment to be broken and bent
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Post by NarnianWolfen »

Hi, I'm new here! The name's Kate. Okay.

About true form: The essential running theme with most werewolves (that I've experienced) are a. People bitten by a wolf and then start getting furry once a month, b. People bitten by a fellow werewolf as the result of a viral or natural DNA mix, c. Werewolves who were born that way by whatever miracle or means, or d. People taken by the spirit of wolf or whatever animal they become, and which they are able to shapeshift into. There's a running theme with all of these ideas: HUMAN. There's always a human base form. Life likes to survive. Whether it's a virus or a wolf or a frog or a man, if it's living, it usually wants to keep living. It makes sense to me that when someone becomes or is born a werewolf, self-preservation will be in its genetic code. Thus the killed body will return to human form unless there's not enough brain or body left to scrape up. So I'm routing human form in this instance. Whether the werewolf involved /feels/ its human form is its 'true form' is an entirely different matter and completely dependent on the individual. About werewolves and giving birth: that's a little too detailed for me. I'm assuming the body finds a way to cope, but it's probably rare and difficult to have cubs. And since I see the human as the natural form, and again because of self-preservation, I think the child would be born human.

On the Wolf's Rain wolves (I love them!). Most normal people only see what they want to see. It's like those rooms where you go in and they make you think the floor's spinning, and you're falling down. Since you think you should, very often times you do. The wolves of Wolf's Rain are capable of illusion, casting a humanoid image to protect themselves from detection (such as with dogs and other animals seeing through them, and once a drunken hunter). I think when someone tries to grab them or touch them, they can, because they expect the illusion to be real. So their brain tells them they feel it. There are also instances where the wolves' human 'illusions' seem to be doing things like knife-fighting or grabbing someone, but in fact it's their teeth or they, themselves, as a dog might stand on its hind legs and 'hug' someone. (Another good example: in the first episode, a boy is running along a rail or something and slips. A wolf, Tsume, tries to grab him and you see him reaching with his hand, but it's really his teeth that seize the boy. The boy, in his fear, manages to see past the illusion and screams, and the wolf lets go in surprise and the boy is lost. It is a dark series.)

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Post by Fenrir »

Um introduce yourself here :D

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Post by Renorei »

Oh and I would also like to add that I think the true form should be human and they should revert to that when they die because it'd be awfully suspicious to find a big bipedal canine thing lying in a ditch somewhere. Whereas, with a human, not so much.

My reasons for having the true form be human and not wolf I have covered in previous posts. But IMO, the true form should most definitely not be gestalt.

Even IF an actual wolf could become a werewolf, it still started out as a wolf. Nobody starts out as gestalt.
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Post by Figarou »

Excelsia wrote:Oh and I would also like to add that I think the true form should be human and they should revert to that when they die because it'd be awfully suspicious to find a big bipedal canine thing lying in a ditch somewhere. Whereas, with a human, not so much.

Now where would the energy come from to transform back to a human after you die?

What if his head was chopped off while in Gestalt form. Will it change back to a human? Probably not.
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Post by Renorei »

Figarou wrote: Now where would the energy come from to transform back to a human after you die?

What if his head was chopped off while in Gestalt form. Will it change back to a human? Probably not.

Well, human hair and fingernails keep growing after death. Of course that's a whole different matter. Anyway, where does the energy to change into a wolf or gestalt while alive come from in the first place? In reality, a human body could never have that much energy to power that, so I don't think it's a huge stretch to say a dead body could do it too.

The point you make about the head is definitely a good one, and one I don't have an answer to at the moment.

However, think of it this way. If werewolves actually did exist, I am sure that various body parts would have been cut off of a werewolf while in gestalt form at some point throughout history. Yet no one has ever found a werewolf head or arm or foot or whatever.

We have to take history into account. If no one has ever found a dismembered werewolf body part, then no one ever should. Surely a werewolf, throughout history, would have had a body part cut off at some point, so in order to explain why everyone doesn't already know about werewolves, I think having dead body parts revert to human is a convenient solution.

As far as the tail or other parts that don't exist on a human, they could just revert to random human flesh and blood.


You have to understand, though I do take logic and reasoning into account, I also like to think of things in terms of convenience.
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Post by Anubis »

know what, in history a hunter cut off a she werewolf's hand when he presented it to the king or what ever its was human again. and he reconized it to the hunters wife. (in truned the guy boned a werewolf, lucky him :wink: )
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Post by Figarou »

Excelsia wrote:
Figarou wrote: Now where would the energy come from to transform back to a human after you die?

What if his head was chopped off while in Gestalt form. Will it change back to a human? Probably not.

Well, human hair and fingernails keep growing after death.
False.


http://www.snopes.com/science/nailgrow.asp
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Post by Renorei »

Figarou wrote:
Excelsia wrote:
Figarou wrote: Now where would the energy come from to transform back to a human after you die?

What if his head was chopped off while in Gestalt form. Will it change back to a human? Probably not.

Well, human hair and fingernails keep growing after death.
False.


http://www.snopes.com/science/nailgrow.asp

Hmm...well I concede your correctness on that point, but the rest of my post still applies. Realistically, a human body could never gather enough energy to make the TF happen in the first place, so I think having a dead body be able to do it isn't really that big of a deal, and also if no one throughout history has ever found werewolf parts, it shouldn't all of a sudden happen now, especially if werewolves are supposed to be an old group.
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