Are you a suppporter of Canis Lupus????

[Figarou]

Thanks you guys! I already feel at home . and thanks Figarou for the duckie.

no problem.

there is more where that came from.

[outwarddoodles]

Currently I think its sad that wolves are currently being killed, if it wern't for that hopefully the wolves would just flourish. I also think plain killing outright isn't the best thing for controlling any predator's population. I've read once that one time they nuetered a couple alpha wolves in a certain area where the wolves were becoming too much and competing with each other, apparently it actually worked. If any predators become at all a problem (theres been lepords in India outright walking into houses and attacking children) they need to be relocated or dealt with a witty plan (what ever that may be.).

Apprently contray to popular beliefs, wolves and predators do not control prey populations. Prey populations control wolves and other predators.

And the fact that cars kill WAY much more deer than big predators.

[Akela]

Looks like meats back on the menu boys!

Mmm..... roast duck.

[Se-gi of the wolves]

If anyone is curious about the word Se-gi its Sara in Cherokee Indian . I don't know how to speak or know any Cherokee Indian but I found a web site on Words and names in Cherokee Indian. But I am part cherokee but I don't look it.

[Lupin]

Apprently contray to popular beliefs, wolves and predators do not control prey populations. Prey populations control wolves and other predators.

Actually it's a two-way street. In the absence of predators, prey will flourish until their population is controled by some other means.

[Akela]

Apprently contray to popular beliefs, wolves and predators do not control prey populations. Prey populations control wolves and other predators.

Actually it's a two-way street. In the absence of predators, prey will flourish until their population is controled by some other means.

Indeed, where I live the absence of the wolf has greatly impacted the environment. There are just WAY too many deer. They run across roads destroy their surroundings and eat up everything.

[Figarou]

Apprently contray to popular beliefs, wolves and predators do not control prey populations. Prey populations control wolves and other predators.

Actually it's a two-way street. In the absence of predators, prey will flourish until their population is controled by some other means.

Indeed, where I live the absence of the wolf has greatly impacted the environment. There are just WAY too many deer. They run across roads destroy their surroundings and eat up everything.

heh...there is alot of deer close to where I live. Thing is, wolves wouldn't help because the deer are in the city.

[Lupin]

There used to be deer where I lived, but I think all the recent construction has driven them away.

[Jarden]

actually more people are killed by deer then by predators.

[Timber-WoIf]

atually there's plenty of deer around my area, dispite the resort oceanfront and NAS Oceana. Atually, its kinda funny, cause deer have actually wandered onto one of the airbase's runway and got hit by F14s. (well, three incidents, all three at night, only F14s)

[dnl]

there many exe of to many predators and prey uneven ratio cause a problem.

Wolves and deer are one exe.
many people worried that the wolves in Lime Stone park would kill all the prey but the wolves have acruly help keep the Eco system in balence. If you lose a balence the eco system ends up blowing up.

[navalagVLK]

Wolves are awesome. I'm the biggest consumer w**** ever for wolfy stuff, I just spent a few months savings on Wolfy crap from eBay XD Whee.

Until there's an issue with the population of a species, I believe that the whole killing thing is a bit </3.
In all fairness, hunters, where's the thrill in pulling a trigger, hearing a loud noise and watching a creature stop moving? Maybe for the fun of going out into the wilderness for a reason? Why not take a camera instead and shoot some pictures. They're lighter and less likely to screw some body-part up.

Anyway...

I know that here, at least, the rabbit population is an issue. (My family really need the landscape to survive, and the fluffy bunnies destroy it. In turn, we lose money.) So in order to stop this problem we've encouraged the local fox population to increase. Which is nice.

I know the exact same idea cannot be introduced to wolves, since they travel much further (To the nearest town for some scavengie goodness, so they don't have to rely on a specific food source.) and don't seem to have a natural predator (Apart from some eejits with planes and guns looking for a reason to make their dicks feel a little bigger. But that's not very natural.)

Before the human race came along and screwed everything up, how was the wolf population "Controlled"?

Fun Fact (I think it's fact, anyway ): Wolves were in Ireland until about 1773. They were finished off by the English who were colonizing Ireland. As far as I remember (I could be wrong about my own damn history, here ) Wolves were in the UK until 1743. Since whoever was in charge at the time was trying to make a little Britain out of Ireland, they felt it necessary to cull the population.

I could go on, but that's enough for now.

[predatoress]

Yes, definitely. I've always loved canines but something struck me when i was 11 and here we are. The wolf have very difficult situation in here finland 'cos of the reindeer owners and hunters, and I try to plant some sense in ppl. But it's hard, irrational fear and the fact they eat dogs and other home animals are hard to deal with.

[Ink]

Delete this.

[Ink]

Delete

[Ink]

I hold no animal above another... For me, I would feel pompous if I did.

The ecosystems of North America have held up with the wolf gone. Don't chew my head off for stating that but the wolf's loss did impact the ecosystem but the world didn't fall apart, I will point out. The fact is that now the reintroduction is causing the wolf to confront age-old mankind but again.

As for farmers: They have to make a living, wolf or no. The world around them matters; farmers aren't cold hearted bastards with no tact for life. I live on a farm, I understand the relationship that exists for farmers. They want and need the land to flourish, the forest by their fields to buffer wind and stop the ground should it ever decide to erode.

The problem with wolves is they take a pick from the herd and that's a $2000 dollar loss. And a family all ready burdened will fight, like a wolf would, to protect it's own.

Yeah, a nice heifer gone? $2000 bucks. For anybody, $2000 bucks down the drain is definately a strain. And if it keep happening the digits get bigger and frustration rises.

It won't end with one gunshot or a thousand -- it will not end. That's it. To bring harmony to it, however, the population must increase to safely take wolves from the wild. Only then can man and wolf truly co-exist in all ecological relationships of give and take.

To anyone that says a wolf is worth a human's life: I feel sorry for you. Values of life are not priced by each other -- the fact is that Man has deemed itself a conquerer and culture has allowed man to flourish and abuse the land lived on. But to curb man's ignorance of his place as merely one amongst the animals we have to realize what power we DO hold.

We can help the wolves, but we have to do it to help both of us usefully co-exist.

As for Hunters: The DEC and wildlife management people are good at what they do. They are GOOD. They will be the protectors of the wolf and the sanctity of it's wild existance. When they say there are over-population issues things need to be taken care of.

It's not like hunters are allowed to go out and bag everything they see. And while, yes, hunting is fun, the majority of people do it for reasons besides thrill rides. It's an experience and it backs up a purpose: eliminate the excess before the excess causes problems.

Now, I am NOT talking about poachers. I am talking about legit hunters, people like ME who go out and bag a deer, bag a bear, bag a coyote, fox, squirrel.

Hunters are a part of the ecological cycle. They are part of this worlds mesh that saves a few automobile owners from the worst nightmare of a deer-on-car collision, help us keep herds from heading towards disease and starvation and helps to invite tradition and natural understand into light. Tradition for us is something we severely lack with our odd cultural dynamics and product-fueled soceity.

About Poachers: Poaching happens. I won't sugar coat it. But it doesn't happen like it does in Hollywood, it doesn't happen like it does in our fantasies. It's something that occurs by error, ignorance, fear, and outright greed.

It's in the hands of other people, environmental law enforcement such as DEC officers and rangers. These people do their job. They are good at what they do and are excellent at that esteem of things. Just putting faith in them is ludicrous though -- putting an ear to what they are saying is VITAL and important.

I like to be the voice of reason. Even when the world loves something so much for it's aesthetics and the ideal that "Oh! Maybe they're mis-understood!" ...

No, wolves are wolves, like all animals they exist and to exist with us we must have a subtle give and take, a chaos between each other. Without it man will crush the wolf and all other life forms -- from cute dogs to Humanity itself.

There are reasons for all things. Taking the time, the patience, and the will to open up the mind is part of it. It's a part in which overly passionate people forget in the fury of their arguement. For any argument to be taken conciderably it has to be somewhere real or else it's fanaticism.

If we can find the balance of chaos between man and wolf we can save him and ourselves... perhaps.

[Lupin]

I know the exact same idea cannot be introduced to wolves, since they travel much further (To the nearest town for some scavengie goodness, so they don't have to rely on a specific food source.) and don't seem to have a natural predator (Apart from some eejits with planes and guns looking for a reason to make their dicks feel a little bigger. But that's not very natural.)

Before the human race came along and screwed everything up, how was the wolf population "Controlled"?

Of course not. Wolves tend to be apex predators. Their population is controled by the general number and health of the species that they prey on.

[Set]

Yeah yeah. Poor lazy a** farmers and their stupid cows.

Of course if you don't build a proper enclosure for the dumb beasts they'll get eaten. If you don't take care of your damn animals they'll die anyway. What I don't get is why people go after wolves like they do. Cougars, coyotes, domestic dogs, hell, even BEARS cause more livestock deaths than wolves.

A wolf will only go after your cows if you let them. A fast, easy, even - dare I say it - CHEAP way to protect livestock (after building a proper fence, which you need anyway) is to string an electric wire at a level low eough so they can't duck under it and high enough so they can't step over it. Not a high voltage could-kill-an-elephant one, but a wire powered by a livestock fence battery. ZZZAP! Yelp! *wolf runs away* (Seriously...I've been shocked by those things before. They'll knock you flat on your a**.) Add a strand to the top and your animals are less likely to break out as well. Problem solved.

Killing off predators is stupidity in itself. They keep the population of prey animals HEALTHY by picking off the old, weak, and sick. They prevent overpopulations. We wouldn't need hunters if people would stop reproducing like rodents, moving into animal territory, and killing the very animals that keep nature in balance.

Don't think I don't know what I'm talking about either. That would be an idiotic assumption. I was raised around livestock. So was my mother. My grandparents had chickens, horses, cows, and pigs. Their neighbors have cows. One of the firemen my mother knows raises longhorns. I have family who are hunters. There is some form of knowledge supporting my rants.

And don't tell me humans aren't breeding like rabbits. I live out in the middle of nowhere and the city is slowly trickling down into my territory because of it. I'll be in the middle of Aiken pretty damn soon. All the woods here will be cut down to make room for "equestrian communities" - a.k.a. places for rich snobby jackasses to ride the high dollar beasts that they keep solely for their own amusement.

We have coyotes out here. And bobcats. Rattlesnakes, cougars, alligators, foxes, hawks...and you know what? We haven't had a single problem with them. At all. I've gotten more grief from the neighbor's dogs, who killed one of my cats, then I EVER had from the wild predators.

People are just paranoid, stupid, ignorant, and are looking for an excuse. They always do that with things they happen to dislike.

[Ink]

EDIT: I understand this was a wolf support thread and my ideals have been put to resolved testing. Long-windedness is not needed here.

[Set]

I read all of that hot air you call a post. You must have alot of time to waste, posting such long-winded arguments like you do. If you go out and do so much, talk to so many people, then how in hell do you have the damn TIME to waste writing all that?

Ink, you come across to me like a politician. You speak alot of words but they don't mean anything. All filler, no substance. None that I can see anyway. But then again maybe I'm just a rude, uncultured moron like you're trying to make me out to be.

You totally lost me when you started on with the anthropology thing. What in hell are you talking about and what does that have to do with me?

The rabbit thing was a metaphor. You know metaphors right? Or does this narrow minded simpleton have to explain it to you?

You talk about listening to people, but it seems to me that all you want to do is deliberately try to insult them. And you speak of not "wasting your time on a sadist mentality", which for some reason you seem to think I have, yet you spent all that effort writing that response. Hypocritical, much?

And...you know what...you don't know me. Or these people living and going to live near me. I do. You don't live here, you don't have the SLIGHTEST Ra damned clue what goes on in my life. I must say I find that quite rude, you making assumptions about people you've never even met.

You don't deserve to preach.

By the way, the editing thing is real cute. Afraid the almighty mods would get onto you if you'd left it the way it was? I can edit posts too you know. The above was my reply before Ink decided to be a coward and try to save her a**. Think of it what you will.

[Ink]

EDIT: I apologize. Removal of post for the sake of avoiding off-topic indulging.

[Set]

You know this...is just plain getting annoying...I'm not going to play this game of post edit cat-and-mouse with you. I just won't.

To the rest of you: the below is response to the original post.

Anthropology is about you and I and everything. I am not trying to come across angry but damn it why do you have to be so selfishly imployed into making posts like what you did and this?

Again: what the hell are you talking about?

Are you right? What right do you have telling me that you do indeed know something? And when I question it you tell me I don't know you: THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING.

I have a question for you then. What right do you have to tell me I don't know something?

Why? Why can't people be good and why must they be stupid or evil and thoughtlessly killing?

I don't know. Go ask them, miss I've-talked-to-everyone globetrotter.

Answer me these things. Tell me. Talk to me. Fine, you've got me upset but now, without the filler give me an example and teach me what you know.

An example of what? Kind of hard to do that when I don't know what you want.

And I'm not doing so much right now because I'm going to school. I travel during my summers doing field work, internships, project research and talking to people.

Then you should have homework, which I would assume is more importaint than wasting time with me.

Anthropology. That's my life. That's my job. The study of people, long winded talking to people.

Then you should know some people don't like long winded, or has everyone you've come across been as chatty as a teenager with a cellphone?

[Ink]

Nevermind.

I apologize for my longwinded approach. I realized they are not appreciated here and I am sorry.

[Set]

Oy...what a way to give me a headache. You edit while I type.

On some level, this is still about the wolves. So what I did type will remain.

I was asking why you made that assertion as to what people were.

Simple. Because they demonstrate it to me on a daily basis over a variety of subjects, not just wolves.

An example of what? Kind of hard to do that when I don't know what you want.

To the questions I asked about people and things. You gave me examples of context you have. Give them to me in context, not as something far off.

Context. This is beginning to remind me of my high school English class.

Anyway, if I understand correctly, you want to know why I gave the people I knew as sources of what knowledge I've gained? Because they live it. They've been raising cattle for years. If I ever wanted to know anything about livestock farming all I'd have to do is go ask them. And I have asked them, about everything from fencing to keeping livestock safe.

I have a few animals myself. Not exactly cattle, but livestock nonetheless. Horses, which are quite a bit better at escaping from their pens than cows. I too have to worry about whether or not coyotes, cougars, or, most likely, domestic dogs, who are out here all the time (strays, abandoned hunting dogs, lost animals, and pets that got loose) get into the pen and attempt to kill them. If you think I'm lying about the dogs, don't, because one of the people down the street lost a foal to their pet German Shepard. A foal that my appaloosa stallion sired. The foal died, and the dog was put down. I have things to worry about too.

But honestly: I am trying to make my case, that was why I posted my first post. Wasn't this supposed to be about wolves and our position? Isn't it supposed to be about wolves and how we feel abou thtat. I gave a long winded position. It's not a crime.

I never said it was. I'm just not one for dragging things out when they don't need to be. However I won't hesitate to say what I think.

The University Homework thing: Don't be tasteless. It's a Friday night and Friday nights are boring.

I think, for both our sakes, that I'll ignore that snide little comment about being tasteless.

[Ink]

Well thank you for replying and all.

In the end reply:

1.) Your humor I find tasteless, sadist and pointed at being cruel to get a rise. But that is my opinion and I'm not nominating it to fact. I get you think I'm snide, that's fine too. Nobody loves everyone.
2.) Thank you for being hospitable to some accord. I mean that sincerely.
3.) My baseline of idea and yours are similar but got lost when I took offense. Which caused me to yack a lot.
4.) I want people to ultimately listen amongst themselves and not become crazed to thinking alike or alone. Which is the only reason I came back to post anything at all. This doesn't mean I have to like people, but I'll listen.
5.) I'll keep my posts simple for people to get the gist. I realize nobody here cares for thesis papers.

As for wolves: Idealism and all this will never save the wolf.

End Note.