Something on my mind as of late......

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:50 am

I was staying with my sister as you'll might know and now I'm back home and I did come home because I needed a break, but something happened over there that made me come home for awhile so I wanted to tell you and ask you what you think I did was right because I tried to help.....this is a sad story so please don't read this if you have a pet of any kind or are very sensitive, so here goes.......

As long as I was there, about three weeks, I had noticed that the people that lived across the street had cats, many cats and lots of kittens, so I always was talking to my brother about the and he said that they all looked fine from where we could see them....

Anyhow, I had been trying for a long time to call some of the kittens over to see if they were friendly and one of the siamese kittens came really close to me and then turned around and ran away from me, so I gave up on it...anyhow I was telling Stan my sister's husband aka my brother, that there was a really tiny black kitten over there and I didn't really pay attention to it because I wasn't close enough to see the kitten to think anything of it.....

So the other day I was walking down the driveway to pull back the trash cans and I tried one more time to call the kittens over and that small black one actully approached me and ran her hand on my hand and got attached to me really fast and the other kittens started to come up to me, and that's when I noticed that the black kitten was extremely thin and when it tried to meow it was scratchy and weak so I went and got some tuna fish from the cabinet and told my brother about the kitten and he came out with me and I called the kitten over again which she gladly approached and I picked her up and took her up to Stan and he said the cat was definatly staving or something and so we called around to the Humuane society, but all of the no-kill one where full,.........

so anyways Stan and Elycis left and I went to get more food because there were lots of kittens and the other one started being bullies and pushing the smaller black kitten away and i moved the can so she could eat, she was obvioulsy starving and so were the others because they consume the food quick and I had brought out two more cans.after they had eatten two of the kittens say near me, but the little black kitten walked away and sit down right in the middle of the street and there were cars driving up and down the street so I went to get the kitten and I smeeled this odor on it's breath and wasn't normal I know that so I kept her next to me along with two other kittens that wouldn't leave my side and I petted them and scratched behind their little ears and then I noticed that the little kitten was falling asleep in the wrong way and you know how cat's sleep and dogs and it just wasn't right and I knew the kitten wasn't going to live long, but I didn't know when it would happen either to the kitten........

After I fed them I went back into the house and got on the web and I went to the front door to see if the kittens had moved on and weren't in front of the house and I saw they were gone, so I went and got on the web again, so anyways I went back to look and see if they'd return and I saw the little kitten in the middle of the street and noticed it wasn't moving, so I went down a few steps and snapped my fingers and started calling to her and she still didn't move......so as I approache d the kitten I saw that she had died with her eyes and mouth open and I wanted to pick her up and I knew I shouldn't because I didn't know what had happened so I ran back up the stairs and called my sister crying my eyes out and I felt so bad that I didn't help her and I stood on the porch and looked at her lifeless body and watched her until the lady came out with a towel and picked her up and I was so outraged I yelled at her" I told you she was sick!!! I told you and now she's dead....you killed her!!!!

I had went to her earlier and told her that her kittens look sick and I think they need some food and medical attention and she said she'll get around to it, but look what happened because of her!!!! That kitten died because she let it and I felt so angry at myself for not just calling for help.......

Anyways....what do you think I should have done? I can't get the kitten out of my head....I have never had a experiecne like this before and I wish I hadn't......

So anyways did I do the right thing or should I have done more?

outwarddoodles · Post by **outwarddoodles** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:24 pm

Theres no use now and thinking on what you should of done, but more or less of what you should do. If you can in anyway take the kittens and get them medical treatment. Then tell the women she needs to spay her cat, I'm not into people breeding their animals (though I understand there are some people on the pack who do.), especially when they are doing because of irresponsibility and the 'Oh the kittens are so cute!' thing.

If your still there then please, take the kittens, screw what the women may say or do, just take the kittens and get them help.

I also would say to take the mother and TNR (trap, neuter relese.) her, because obviously she shouldn't be bearing kittens nor be outside at all. Though that would probally be more on the stealing side, so I don't recomend taking and spaying the mother, though you should tell the person she needs to get that cat fixed.

Some people should NOT have cats, or any other animal for that matter.

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:36 pm

i say if the cats are still there take them!!! f*** the lady if she can't take care of them will to bad for her!! call the spca or whatever that is animal crulity!!! there has to be laws on how maney pets that one person can have.

belive it or not i'm a cat owner 2 black cats the one desribed remines me of my faverite one "phsyco" (long story) that little guy did not desreve it. you can't change the past but you can save the cats that are currently living at her house!

I HAVE NO TOLLERACE FOR MFers THAT ARE LAZY, ABUSIVE, OR CRUEL TO THERE PETS!!!

I if i came across of somebody like that i would personaly beat the crap out of the bastard!! regardless of sex and age!

so sabre save those cats!!!

Black Shuck · Post by **Black Shuck** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:04 pm

That is sad. You can't help that kitten now, but if you can help the others I'm sure they'd appreciate it. You can take them with you and try and find good homes for them.

I think people that can't take care of their animals shouldn't have them. Yeah, the dog by my grandma's may be alive, but it should have a better life than that. I'm sure the kittens appreciated the tuna though

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:38 pm

Fedirick the Great once said "Those who defend everything, defend nothing." At the time what could you have really done.... you did what anyone would do, you gave them food, you tried comfort thier suffering, honestly I dont think I can ask for much more from you at the time. But now that a kitten is dead, I say you should do everything in your power to get those kittens to be moved to a better and safer place than that old hag.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed individuals can change the world. Indeed its the only thing that has" -Margaret Mead

Sabre, you can make a huge impact on the lives of those kittens, its what you do now that counts. You should save them.

Darth Canis · Post by **Darth Canis** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:44 pm

This is a sad story but i have run into lots of situations like this. The fact is even if you would have called on the lady the kitten probably had incurable disease live feline fiv or leukemia which are deadly no matter what a veterinarian does. You did the best thing for that kitten that anyone could have done you gave her a wonderful last meal. So that she could slip happily into paradise without the nagging hunger that probably bothered her everyday. So you did make a difference to that kitten believe it or not. If i could guess last image she thought of was your face and the love she felt from you. There is still is more you can do though call the humane society tell them that there is a lady who had diseased and dieing cats across the street. Even if the majority of cats cannot be saved at least the ones that can will find homes and the ones that can't be saved will no longer have to suffer. Euthnasia is not horrible when used to put dieing animals out of their misery. Trust me i have worked at a vet and i have helped hold dieing animals while they take their last breath it is a hard experience to get past but knowing these animals are no longer suffering makes all the difference in the world.

Scott Gardener · Post by **Scott Gardener** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:33 pm

The problem with abandoned cats can indeed feel overwhelming. I had a comparable experience about six years ago, back when I lived with my wife (then at the time a living partner) in Azle, a small town on the outskirts of Forth Worth. A number of kittens would just show up; I'd find a kitten in the back yard, out of the blue, with no caretaker and no sign of a mother cat. The kittens were often sickly and would frequently have eye problems.

The first three times it happened I brought the young cats to Fort Worth's branch of the Humane Society. We could not at the time take on additional pets ourselves, but we hoped that someone else would adopt them. The animal shelter there was not a no-kill shelter, so I have often since obsessed that the cats might have been better off left in the wild, where they'd have at least an equal if not better probability of survival.

That then gets into the layered philosophical issues of allowing them to reproduce more sick and starving strays, versus the question of whether disease and "overpopulation" is a problem that justifies pre-emtive killing. Generally, I am a believer in non-interferance, since humans have a terrible track record of creating problems with other animal populations, and making more problems trying to fix those problems. Not to mention our own population problem, coupled with our human versus other animal double-standards, in which our species tries to create different rules for itself.

To add to my anguish, I did not find out until the fourth kitten that Azle's Animal Control was a no-kill shelter. Don't be fooled by name. "Humane Society" is not neccessarily inherantly better than "Animal Control."

The ultimate realization out of all of this is that there is no way to win. You can't do the right thing and harm no one. You can try do the least amount of damage, but the system itself is damaged. You can ask questions like the famous bumper sticker phrase "what would Jesus do," but life has moments much like the Kobiashi Maru simulation at the beginning of Star Trek II; there's no way to win. It's a test of how you deal with death and a no-win scenario. And, you can't blame yourself for not knowing something that could have made the difference.

Miguel · Post by **Miguel** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:35 pm

I would tell the people that they were in trouble and sick my lawyer on them for animal abuse. It could make alot of cash.Take the kittens and take care of them.

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:36 am

I would do something, but seeing as my sister is with childs I can't afford to endanger her, the twins, Stan or their cat peanut because I wanted to help an animal and my mom would have an attack if she ever found out about this, but I can't stop thinking about those other tiny kittens and I so badly want to help them, but if someone comes to her now she could retalate and harm my family and I don't like to start fights and I just want peace, but there's really nothing I can do despite my wanting to and it kills me!!!!

PariahPoet · Post by **PariahPoet** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:28 am

That's so sad. Poor kitty. I think you did the very best thing you could for it. You gave it food and affection. A lot of those kitten diseases just can't be cured even if you go to the vet. Because of you the kitten wasn't hungry anymore and at least knew it was loved. I think that's all anyone could have done for it.

outwarddoodles · Post by **outwarddoodles** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:25 pm

Scott - I have to say the best solution is is to TNR stray colonies. The shelter I currently volentier at works only with the strays found along the street, they trap and fix them, and the cats that can be helped will stay there and be socialized. Alot of cats move on to live life with humans and are perfectly okay, cats that don't get along are released back again. Some people don't take the cats home with them though, just going out to TNR stray colonies is good enough. The cats may earn a frightening experaince, but then they can live back in the wild and not have to give birth to any kittens tat would then have to live the harsh life of a feral cat.

Cats just arn't wild animals anymore, I don't think cats should be outside at all unless under supervision (I walk Opie on a harness, though just standing out there with them is good enough.)

I know what I'll be doing when I'm grown up, it's a tough job to do. Yet saving cats is a labor of love.

Oh, and the kittens with eye problems thing; Those cats could of easily gotten a cold, causing the haw to show and the eye to swell up. Doesn't mean they have an eye infection or desiese. Herpes or malnutrition can fog up cats eyes or make them blind though.

Black Shuck · Post by **Black Shuck** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:35 pm

TNR release is a good program. I'd second that one.

I guess the kittens could make another cat sick or pass something on to your nieces. Heh, funny story: When I was born, my biological dad had this cat named Rainy. He was so mean. He was one of those that if you touched him, he would hit you. So, I was born premature and had a few problems, which meant I got to stay at the hospital for a little while. When I was well enough, I got to come home. Now, because Rainy was such a mean little b*stard, my parents weren't sure what to do with him and didn't want him attacking me or something. My dad eventually decided that instead of putting him in a kennel or locking him in a room, he'd just put chicken wire over my crib!

So, I got to be chicken wired inside my crib while the cat roamed free, lol. Yeah, you probably don't want to do that to your nieces as a solution...

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:21 am

No I don't Black Shuck, but I thank you all for your advice

It is much apperciated

PariahPoet · Post by **PariahPoet** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:11 am

outwarddoodles wrote: Cats just arn't wild animals anymore, I don't think cats should be outside at all unless under supervision (I walk Opie on a harness, though just standing out there with them is good enough.)

I have to disagree on this one. If you live in a city, near a heavily traveled road, or in some other environment that poses an immediate danger to a cat, then yes, do keep them inside. However, if you live in the country I think a cat is happier outside. I have two outside kitties. One is very shy and like myself, can't handle a lot of activity so keeping her inside would put way too much stress on her. The other used to be ferel and we've tamed him down enough that he likes us and we can pet him and play with him, but he would never tolerate an inside life.

I don't see the point in neutering toms either. If you neuter a tom and release it back outside all the other toms are going to beat the crap out of him. And what does it really accomplish? Even if you neuter a hundred toms and miss just one, that one can take care of every single female in heat. I do think that spaying females is the responsible thing to do, but neutering males is just pointless.

outwarddoodles · Post by **outwarddoodles** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:34 pm

I have to disagree on this one. If you live in a city, near a heavily traveled road, or in some other environment that poses an immediate danger to a cat, then yes, do keep them inside. However, if you live in the country I think a cat is happier outside.

Living in the country somehow seems to mean cats are safer. I'd say yes, theres less filth, less cars, and less people that could attack your cat (sick huh? Afraid of cats on the city streets because theres going to be people hurting them.). Though cats in the country are still prone to being attacked by another animal, cat or bigger, or deseieses. Though I'm okay with cats outside in safer areas aslong as the owner is responsible, and that hopefully they're fixed.

The other used to be ferel and we've tamed him down enough that he likes us and we can pet him and play with him, but he would never tolerate an inside life.

Acutally, all the cats at OAR were once feral, and now some couldn't give a care about that one measly weak screen door that blocks them from the outside. It's a small room, just a basement to an antique shop, yet somehow they don't seem to care about leaving. Some do, I have to fight Otto when going through the doors, though he never really tries to get out, Otto seems to just like snoozing in the sunny spot. Cats can adapt to indoor life, walk them if you want, yet you can find other ways to enertain your kitty inside.

I personally would rather TNR ferals and let them be, though it's just the fact that cats can live fully indoors, I recomend it too.

I don't see the point in neutering toms either. If you neuter a tom and release it back outside all the other toms are going to beat the crap out of him. And what does it really accomplish? Even if you neuter a hundred toms and miss just one, that one can take care of every single female in heat. I do think that spaying females is the responsible thing to do, but neutering males is just pointless.

Well normally as a Tom is neutered they do become less agressive, and they are not prone to being attacked by another tom that may be unfixed. So normally those toms do become lower ranked, and will dodge the testorone filled boys. Though cats not hyped up on hormones tend to get along better, as I've seen, and theres less fights. An unfixed tom isn't going to attack a neuetered tom for no reason, because they won't be fighting for the mating, the fixed tom feels no need to anymore. Though there may be one tom unfixed when all others are, that cat can not breed to all the queens can he? Plus, mind you, Queens can be much the same, they can fight too. Noth Toms and females are also more prone to being ran over, when they're trying to advertise, or has caught the scent of someone to mate with, they couldn't care about anything but that, and they can walk strait infrount of cars and get ran over. This causes other problems too, and they Yowl all night long, no one likes that.

Fixing feral toms lessens the chances of females being bred and lessens the fights that can happen.

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:25 pm

sabre you can do it anomomously

Teh_DarkJokerWolf · Post by **Teh_DarkJokerWolf** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:37 am

I went back to my sister's house wednsday and my brother told me not to touch those kittens and he really loves cats and I know it was hard for him to say, so anyways I was sitting in the car waiting for him to come back and I opened the door to get some air and guess who shows up but the other kittens and I sat in the car and the came right up to me and a black one jumped in my lap and I started crying so hard Because I just didn't want to leave them, but I didn't want cause any trouble betweent the neighbors and my family so I put her down and she jumped right back in my lap and the little gray one still up and looked at me and started talking (meowing) it was so cute and the black got up under my chin and started purring like she knew of my good intentions and knew I was hurting for them, well obiviosly because I had given them the best meal they've had seen they were born and I could put them down I just scratched behind they're ears and stroked them until Stan came out. " I thought I told you not to touch those kittens!!" he said and I said they came up to me and as soon as he reached the bottom steps the kittens ran to him and started rubbing on his leg and he tried to hide the fact that he didn't care, but I knew he did and he clenched his fist and and said go on guys and I knew Stan wanted to help as much as I did, it's just my sister doesn't care for cats except peanut the cat they own. And everytime I came out side they came across the street to greet me meowing along the way and I told Stan we have to help these little guys and he said he'd try to do something and I know he will and if not I will do something, I have to before another life is taken, but I am scared....

Shadow Wulf · Post by **Shadow Wulf** » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:54 pm

the number one reason why cats are overpopulated is because people let them run loose and dont have them fixed, cats are sex freaks, thats what they basicly live for, atleast the street type.