Shapeshifting as a learned talent

[Jamie]

When shapeshifting is a learned talent (most often seen in novels where shapeshifting is magical in origin), what type of "learned" werewolf or werebeast do you prefer?
I'm not talking about new werewolves who only have involuntary transformations and need to learn control; I'm talking about a scenario where shapeshifting is a talent that is learned, perhaps even taught in special schools or from master to apprentice.
Although more at home in a magical setting, this idea could also fit easily within a science-fiction world or a contemporary world in which hidden supernatural or biological mechanisms exist.
Please explain your ideas, especially if they don't match up with any of the poll questions.

[Figarou]

Hmmmm......

Exploring the ability to shapeshift helps to control it. Its like taking apart a clock to see what makes it "tick." Once that werewolf has an understanding of it, then controlled shapeshifting is a possibility.

Massive amounts of concentration is needed for controlled shifting. But it doesn't happen overnight. Also no 2 werewolves are the same. One may learn the ability faster than the other. One can be totally confused while the other understands.


Controlled shifting probably spread like wildfire after a werewolf figured it out.


werewolf 1- "Yo, check this out!! I can shift into gestalt form without the full moon!!"

werewolf2 "Suuurrrrrre you can."


Werewolf1- "Ok, watch this!!"


werewolf2- "Whoa!!! Can you teach me?"

[Terastas]

I can think of two possible definitions.

The first one that comes to mind is the Harry Potter definition of polymorphing, where shapeshifting is no more difficult than any form of magic, but each variation of target and intended outcome is variable in technique, therefore your typical wizard would know some polymorphing spells, but to know every possible shapeshifting variation would be impossible, therefore most people would only bother to study the outcomes that are desired.

The other definition that comes to mind is that of the Forgotten Realms, which divides magic into seven different schools of discipline:
Abjuration (Protection)
Conjuration (Summoning)
Divination (Scribing / Fortune Telling)
Enchantment (Mind Control / Hypnotism)
Evocation (Classic magic: manipulation of energy like fireballs and lightning bolts)
Illusion (Self-explanatory)
Necromancy (Life-force manipulation, predominantly involves the undead)

And the only one we need focus on for this discussion:
Transmutation (Alteration of shape, properties, and/or physical reality)

A typical mage may attempt to study all seven schools, but will take a considerable ammount of effort to become adept in any of them. A wizard may, however, become specialized in one class and become more experineced in magic pertaining to that area of study -- where a mage may learn one spell, a specializing Transmuter may learn three. The problem with specialization, however, is that the seven schools of magic are opposed, meaning that when a wizard specializes in one school, he cannot study in the school of opposition. Divination and Illusion are a classic example of opposites; Divination is the pursuit of truth, and Illusion is the art of deception. In the case of Transmutation, the opposing school is Conjuration (one is turning one object into another, the other is creating a brand new one). By that definition, a wizard may specialize in the art of shapeshifting, but in doing so he prohibits his studies elsewhere.

In both definitions, there are the classic spells that have been written down for your own convenience, but a true understanding of the art itself requires a lot of time and concentration. They can also be specialized in (Harry Potter: Animagus, Forgotten Realms: Transmuter), but are seldom studied exclusively.

To answer your question, some shapeshifting can be learned by any witch or wizard, but to earn the title of shapeshifter will require more effort than most people are willing to spend.

[Kzinistzerg]

Well, If I go byy my universe's magic rules, then it only requires a) a latent 'magic talent', B) a teacher of magic, and C) good knowledge of physics. It'snot the first thing learned, and when not an innatetalent it's hard to do, but the mroe advanced you get, the earier it is.

[Aki]

I'd say 'latent' magic talent thingy as well.

Helps distinguish the shapeshifters from, well, everyone else.

[Anubis]

When shapeshifting is a learned talent (most often seen in novels where shapeshifting is magical in origin), what type of "learned" werewolf or werebeast do you prefer?
I'm not talking about new werewolves who only have involuntary transformations and need to learn control; I'm talking about a scenario where shapeshifting is a talent that is learned, perhaps even taught in special schools or from master to apprentice.
Although more at home in a magical setting, this idea could also fit easily within a science-fiction world or a contemporary world in which hidden supernatural or biological mechanisms exist.
Please explain your ideas, especially if they don't match up with any of the poll questions.

wow, i think most of us haven't thought of that. even though this is reality and such things aren't possible, but if they were that is. i think every human on earth would have shapeshifting abilitites.

but since every person on earth is diferent some has it easier than others like skateboarding its a dificult sport but some takes to it like ducks to water. but some have a very hard time just to push the bored. i think it would be a learned talet but it would be very dificult for those changes to be safe. it would take years of prcatice and insteructions. to get it right and safely.

[Scott Gardener]

This topic by design involves worlds in which magic exists and can be used for shapeshifting. I answer accordingly.

I chose the second one, that shapeshifting can be learned, but more often than not isn't.

I base this on real-world magick theory and practice, the Wiccan religion, and its overlap with the therianthropy movement, as well as on things I have learned about magick shape-shifting. Granted, real-world magick doesn't involve really cool but expensive special effects, and real-world shape-shifting is not literal physical shifting. But, it's a useful point of reference for hypothetical worlds that do.

My own experience has been that someone who is knowledgable about magick can learn shape-shifting, but it's a very involved sort of magick, more than basic ritual stuff. Alternatively, there are those who learn shifting without learning other forms of magick--indeed, some who don't study magick at all--many therians aren't Wiccans, Pagans, shamans, or other spiritualists. Many even follow mainstream Christianity, portions of which actively discourage belief in or use of real world magick.

This should imply that shifting, be it "m," "p," or any of the other letters of the alphabet, might not be related to magick at all, whatsoever. But, from my own experience, it is. Both involve similar states of mind, and I've used each in relation to the other. The two are in my own life closely intertwined. (I know, painfully subjective, but hey, we're talking about magick. At least half of you probably think I'm a kook for believing in it.)

Shape-shifting as a form of mental exercise requires a mental image of all the senses experienced in the other form, as well as an appreciation of the form itself. Shifting to a wolf involves not only a substantially altered four-legged stance with a tail, muzzle, movable ears, and pointed teeth; but also a nocturnal but red-green color-blind vision, enhanced hearing, and enhanced smell. It also involves an altered mental perspective; to be a wolf, you also almost have to take on at least part of the mind-set of a wolf. Otherwise, you won't fully appreciate that form's advantages, being too caught up in the lack of human advantages outside of your own consciousness (which is ultimately still based on the architecture of human consciousness.)

That is definitely a skill in its own right. It's easier to learn a third form when you've learned the second, because you've already learned how not to be still in a human form. But, shifting is definitely a skill.

[Vuldari]

I voted the second option.


1 - because it is diffucult to do, and therefore Special and Unique (as in, not everyone knows how to do it.)

and 2 - because it does not require that special "latent/potential" quality that the third option talks about.

I prefer NOT to have this pre-requisite because of my personal perspective on myself. I am not one of those people who thinks there is something "special" about me that sets me apart from most of the rest of the world. I don't like the idea of heritage dominating ones destiny...or one being denied the very possibility of following a certain path in life because they were born without said special quality.


I am a blank slate. I am nobodys "chosen one". I believe that I have no pre-determined destiny to follow, and therefore am capable of choosing absolutely any path I desire, and am capable of accomplishing any task if I am willing to put forth the effort required.

So, as a matter of preference, I like to imagine that shapeshifting would be within the capacity for even a mundane, non-gifted blank slate such as myself to achieve, with enough effort.



(That is something that allways bothered me about the Harry Potter books. You had to be BORN with magical powers to become a Wizzard or a Witch.
...I didn't like that...
So I've daydreamed on multiple occasions about a "muggle" with NO magical talents choosing to become a Wizzard, buying a magic-less wand from the wand shop (the window display model) and then rocking the world of the teachers at hogwarts by memorising all of the wand motions perfectly, even though nothing comes of it at first, and then making up for it by mastering the potions classes and everything else...eventually obtaining enough knolwage of the workings of magic to GIVE himself the magical spark he was not born with, thus giving him all of the abilities of any other wizzard.

*gasp and exhale*

Yep...that's what I think about when I'm bored. ...When I'm not daydreaming about making "Metroid: The Movie", or transforming into a Werewolf, that is. )

[Silverclaw]

You must be a "latent" or "potential" shapeshifter in order to learn. These latents might be very common, such as a third of the population. This scenario creates a clear division between shapeshifters and other magic-users.

I kindof like this one the most. Like you already should have 'the beast within' kindof thing Makes shapeshifting less common and all

[white]

"Shapeshifting 101 - Therians only"
Heh.

[Vuldari]

"Shapeshifting 101 - Therians only"
Heh.

Oh sure...rub it in. That's fine if you're a therian.


Therian "Hey...check out what I just learned how to do!"
*shifts into gestalt wolf form*

Vuldari *grumbles under breath* "...whoop de doo for you..."

Therian "...What was that?..."
*his ears perk up and turn towards his surly friend, listening*

Vuldari *walks over and leans right up to the therians wide-open ear as if to whisper*
"...I Said 'BITE ME', Showoff!..."

[Aki]

[Shadow Wulf]

I just think its based on experience, the more you shift, the more you learn about the beast in you, later on you can trigger the TF.

[Vuldari]

I just think its based on experience, the more you shift, the more you learn about the beast in you, later on you can trigger the TF.

I believe this topic is actually about different kinds of shapeshifters, and NOT bitten/born "werewolves".

That is...what if shapeshifting was a learnable skill (like martial arts...only MUCH more difficult)? How would you think it would/should work?

(Sort of like the "animagi" in the Harry Potter universe, such as Sirius Black who could become a large black dog, or the Teacher who could become a cat, or the guy who was secretly Rons pet rat. ...sorry...best example I could think of...)

[Veruth]

(Sort of like the "animagi" in the Harry Potter universe, such as Sirius Black who could become a large black dog, or the Teacher who could become a cat, or the guy who was secretly Rons pet rat. ...sorry...best example I could think of...)

That's the first thing I thought of too . I'm in favor of the learnable type, I don't like the "born with it" thing a whole lot either.

[vrikasatma]

In my Pashunara storyline, every animal on the face of the earth (including humans) have the *potential* ability to shapeshift. The maturation and aging process and to a certain extent the healing process is a slow-motion and non-retroactive manifestation of it. It is a one-way trip, though, and takes a long time.

I think what we're looking for here is form-changing that is retroactive, proactive, serial, sequential and lateral; and, the changes take seconds or minutes, not years.

Most never manifest the ability to shift their shape to something other than the form they were born into, usually because they do not believe it can be done, or they've just never been offered the chance. It takes a given set of circumstances to "awaken" and that allows you to shift to the phenotype that you intensely and profoundly identify with, and back to Position Zero, serially.

[Kirk Hammett]

Id like to be able to learn to become something else . Imagine being able to manipulate molecules. Hey I have a really interesting book...this is to do with inheritance...but it's about shapeshifting sort of, it's to do with physics and chemistry and an altered species of human. It's just really cool. "Darker Than You Think" by Jack Williamson. It involves more than wolves, it's a lot of different creatures.

Anyway on the topic, it'd be cool to be able to manipulate your form, or really transform your spirit self. Do any of you dream about shapeshifting? I attempt it a lot but sometimes I find it hard. Sometimes it works, sometimes I struggle to do it. The question is, am I really aware in my dreams or is it simply a dream?

[Scott Gardener]

I agree with Vuldari, as I'm a champion of the concept of free will. The stories about legendary ancestory strike me as similarly fatalistic. Jedi upbringing aside, the bit about destiny seems constraining.

[00airknight]

The ability of transforming has a lot to do with experience. The moon powers the werewolf. For (ww=werewolf) (wws=werewolves) wws who are unexperienced they can not learn to control that power. wws with experience can hold themselves back from changing but not for long. so they can run and hide before they change. they can do this by holding inside the power and not change and use it when ready. wolflords have complete control. they can turn into a ww in the middle of the day from the stored energy. in fact they can suse strength and speed and not transform. like changing only certain parts of their body like arms and legs. but eventually they will have to let the energy out.
So it mostly has to do with experience but some can change at different times because they react differently to the ww syndrome. So Experience and potential are what it takes to control it. you have to get used to holding in the energy. Any questions?